so whats the solution?

[Boss]

I'm seeing nothing in this thread as far as a viable solution. China is obviously not going to step up and help.

Not true. Both China and Russia voted FOR the recent severe sanctions imposed by the UN on North Korea. In the past, they would either abstain or veto.

Sanctions? WTF? Are sanctions working?

We are way beyond UN sanctions.

I mean... I don't get you people. Are we going to wait until they vaporize Guam? Is it going to take a nuke on San Francisco? Because that is where we're heading unless we take him out.

 

[francoHFW]

OP- Let it go. Nothing can be done. Assume they are not insane. They're out of control but won't attack anyone. Argghh....They're the exception that proves the rule...absolutely don't care about being in the United Nations or squat- total outlaw family dictatorship.

 

[FA_Q2]

I'm seeing nothing in this thread as far as a viable solution. China is obviously not going to step up and help.

Not true. Both China and Russia voted FOR the recent severe sanctions imposed by the UN on North Korea. In the past, they would either abstain or veto.

Sanctions? WTF? Are sanctions working?

We are way beyond UN sanctions.

I mean... I don't get you people. Are we going to wait until they vaporize Guam? Is it going to take a nuke on San Francisco? Because that is where we're heading unless we take him out.

Yes they are - they weaken the nation in question.

Further, the assumption that they are going to 'vaporize' anything is based on a whole lot of nothing. Nuclear proliferation does not make things better but it is a massive cry from that to NK actually using them against a target.

Of course we CAN force the issue and make them use their nukes - we just have to start a war...

 

[Gracie]

I'm seeing nothing in this thread as far as a viable solution. China is obviously not going to step up and help.

Not true. Both China and Russia voted FOR the recent severe sanctions imposed by the UN on North Korea. In the past, they would either abstain or veto.

Sanctions? WTF? Are sanctions working?

We are way beyond UN sanctions.

I mean... I don't get you people. Are we going to wait until they vaporize Guam? Is it going to take a nuke on San Francisco? Because that is where we're heading unless we take him out.

That about sums it up.

 

[RWS]

I'm seeing nothing in this thread as far as a viable solution. China is obviously not going to step up and help.

Not true. Both China and Russia voted FOR the recent severe sanctions imposed by the UN on North Korea. In the past, they would either abstain or veto.

Sanctions? WTF? Are sanctions working?

We are way beyond UN sanctions.

I mean... I don't get you people. Are we going to wait until they vaporize Guam? Is it going to take a nuke on San Francisco? Because that is where we're heading unless we take him out.

I actually agree with you on this.

Here's my thing.... next time they launch a test missile, we should try to shoot it down. And show our capabilities.

If we miss, we instantly go all in for a take-out, since that will provoke the meathead once he realizes what we tried, and we'll follow up with the equivalent to a first-strike.

If we hit it, we give them another ultimatum, lasting 24 hrs, and then go all in.

We have to show that they cannot threaten us with their weapons, and that requires using one of our interceptors to shoot down one of their test missiles. But if we miss... we have to go full force in, since they will strike back, and will make our tech look bad if not covered up by an immediate assault.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Wrong. Clinton is much more level-headed than Trump and performs much better under pressure than Trump. She proved this during the debates.

She should have. She got the questions ahead of time to prepare her answers. But to her credit, she didn't have the moderator bring in evidence to support what she was going to say like DumBama did.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I'm seeing nothing in this thread as far as a viable solution. China is obviously not going to step up and help.

Not true. Both China and Russia voted FOR the recent severe sanctions imposed by the UN on North Korea. In the past, they would either abstain or veto.

Sanctions? WTF? Are sanctions working?

We are way beyond UN sanctions.

I mean... I don't get you people. Are we going to wait until they vaporize Guam? Is it going to take a nuke on San Francisco? Because that is where we're heading unless we take him out.

I don't think it would come to that. Kimmy boy has little man syndrome and is trying to act like the little bully prepared to beat up the big guy. But is that something we want to gamble on is the question?

The only simple way is to hope China steps in or that one of his own countrymen kill the SOB somehow someway. Other than that we have very few options and none of them are going to be pretty.

 

[Mac1958]

This is the kind of thing that worries me: Experts: U.S. Lacks Necessary Channels To Resolve North Korea Crisis | HuffPost

If there isn't a great deal of back-channel communication going on right now, including the US, North Korea, South Korea, Japan and China - and it looks like there is NOT - then it's FAR more likely something will happen. From war to business to politics to relationships, no problem is solved without communication.

From the piece:

Experts said there are limited channels through which the two sides can try to exchange proposals to ease tensions over North Korea’s missile and nuclear weapons programs.

“We have some ad hoc and analogue ways of communicating with North Korea but we don’t have anything that has proven itself and can withstand the stress of crises,” said Jon Wolfsthal, a top non-proliferation adviser to former President Barack Obama.

The two sides have no diplomatic relations, so they have no embassies in each other’s capitals. They maintain contacts through their United Nations missions, their embassies in Beijing and meetings between military officers at Panmunjom, the location on the militarized frontier dividing the Korean Peninsula where the truce that stilled the 1950-53 Korean War was signed.
.

 

[Avatar4321]

You don't want war with n Korea. Neither do I.

So how do we solve the n Korea problem?

I'm all ears

All I know is that I don't want a dangerous idiot like Trump making that decision...but you should have thought of that before you voted for him.

I didn't vote for him. I don't see him having many options and its much better have him than Clinton since it could be argued we wouldn't be in this position if it wasn't for the last Clinton deal

Wrong. Clinton is much more level-headed than Trump and performs much better under pressure than Trump. She proved this during the debates. Deep down, even an intellectually dishonest Repug like you knows this is true.

So she could level headedly give nk more uranium?

 

[WillowTree]

You don't want war with n Korea. Neither do I.

So how do we solve the n Korea problem?

I'm all ears

All I know is that I don't want a dangerous idiot like Trump making that decision...but you should have thought of that before you voted for him.

I didn't vote for him. I don't see him having many options and its much better have him than Clinton since it could be argued we wouldn't be in this position if it wasn't for the last Clinton deal

Wrong. Clinton is much more level-headed than Trump and performs much better under pressure than Trump. She proved this during the debates. Deep down, even an intellectually dishonest Repug like you knows this is true.

She faints, then someone has to drag her fat ass off to recover!

 

[Boss]

I'm seeing nothing in this thread as far as a viable solution. China is obviously not going to step up and help.

Not true. Both China and Russia voted FOR the recent severe sanctions imposed by the UN on North Korea. In the past, they would either abstain or veto.

Sanctions? WTF? Are sanctions working?

We are way beyond UN sanctions.

I mean... I don't get you people. Are we going to wait until they vaporize Guam? Is it going to take a nuke on San Francisco? Because that is where we're heading unless we take him out.

Yes they are - they weaken the nation in question.

Well by that logic, NK should be the weakest nation on the planet. Because they are the single most sanctioned nation over the past 30 years.

Further, the assumption that they are going to 'vaporize' anything is based on a whole lot of nothing.

Hmmm... let's see... FA_Q2 Intelligence vs. US National Security Intelligence? I think when dealing with nukes, I'm gonna go with US National Security Intelligence. No offense. I'm sure your intelligence is useful for bathroom policy or strains of pot... this is too important to trust you as a source.

Nuclear proliferation does not make things better but it is a massive cry from that to NK actually using them against a target.

Of course we CAN force the issue and make them use their nukes - we just have to start a war...

NK's proliferating nukes is the whole problem here. And the whole issue is that he continues threatening to use them. Now... perhaps I am wrong about this, but I believe he is less likely to use his nukes if we turn him into a grease spot.

 

[Crixus]

Trump should offer to play golf with Kim jong un and become his best friend. Once that occurs maybe Trump can convince Kim Jong Un of the value of making money and the value of having a strong economy in doing so.

Or, beat the shit out of him with a golf club until he go's our way.

 

[Boss]

I'm seeing nothing in this thread as far as a viable solution. China is obviously not going to step up and help.

Not true. Both China and Russia voted FOR the recent severe sanctions imposed by the UN on North Korea. In the past, they would either abstain or veto.

Sanctions? WTF? Are sanctions working?

We are way beyond UN sanctions.

I mean... I don't get you people. Are we going to wait until they vaporize Guam? Is it going to take a nuke on San Francisco? Because that is where we're heading unless we take him out.

I actually agree with you on this.

Here's my thing.... next time they launch a test missile, we should try to shoot it down. And show our capabilities.

If we miss, we instantly go all in for a take-out, since that will provoke the meathead once he realizes what we tried, and we'll follow up with the equivalent to a first-strike.

If we hit it, we give them another ultimatum, lasting 24 hrs, and then go all in.

We have to show that they cannot threaten us with their weapons, and that requires using one of our interceptors to shoot down one of their test missiles. But if we miss... we have to go full force in, since they will strike back, and will make our tech look bad if not covered up by an immediate assault.

There's two problems here with your plan. First, it's not easy to shoot down a missile. What if you miss and your missile ends up landing in Seoul and killing a bunch of civilians? OR what if it's a live nuke that detonates when you hit it and it obliterates an ally? Second, this isn't a video game. An invasion and attack takes tremendous coordination and planning. The only rational way to invade is through SK and if we start building up forces there, he's going to know what we're doing.

 

[Slyhunter]

I'm seeing nothing in this thread as far as a viable solution. China is obviously not going to step up and help.

Not true. Both China and Russia voted FOR the recent severe sanctions imposed by the UN on North Korea. In the past, they would either abstain or veto.

Sanctions? WTF? Are sanctions working?

We are way beyond UN sanctions.

I mean... I don't get you people. Are we going to wait until they vaporize Guam? Is it going to take a nuke on San Francisco? Because that is where we're heading unless we take him out.

I actually agree with you on this.

Here's my thing.... next time they launch a test missile, we should try to shoot it down. And show our capabilities.

If we miss, we instantly go all in for a take-out, since that will provoke the meathead once he realizes what we tried, and we'll follow up with the equivalent to a first-strike.

If we hit it, we give them another ultimatum, lasting 24 hrs, and then go all in.

We have to show that they cannot threaten us with their weapons, and that requires using one of our interceptors to shoot down one of their test missiles. But if we miss... we have to go full force in, since they will strike back, and will make our tech look bad if not covered up by an immediate assault.

There's two problems here with your plan. First, it's not easy to shoot down a missile. What if you miss and your missile ends up landing in Seoul and killing a bunch of civilians? OR what if it's a live nuke that detonates when you hit it and it obliterates an ally? Second, this isn't a video game. An invasion and attack takes tremendous coordination and planning. The only rational way to invade is through SK and if we start building up forces there, he's going to know what we're doing.

Bomb him, obliterate him. We don't need troops to blow up his capital.

 

[Unkotare]

Okay... Here's an idea. Its gonna be very, very expensive though...

A complete, full scale and highly publicized evacuation of the city of Seoul. Pull everyone out. Fast. Such a move would be a complete game changer, as far as any plans NK has for an attack. Then if he gets jumpy... Bomb him back into the stone age. We rebuilt Japan. We can rebuild Seoul if need be.

From what I've heard, NK has a country under their country. They have put their money into underground tunnels and it would be impossible to infiltrate. From what I understand, they are highly advanced and able to endure any bombing that we might initiate.

We could destroy what's on top, but the people, military and leadership would survive just fine. All they would have to worry about is rebuilding which wouldn't stop them from advancing their nuclear technologies.

That's what we get for supporting cheap labor Totalitarian nations like China that share with their fellow dictators.

I agree, but I don't think that Americans will stop buying products made overseas because of it. We are too focused on getting cheap products and we don't care where they come from.

More solidarity among American consumers would put more pressure on China than any of our politicians or policies. But try to make that happen....................

Most people I encounter seem to be willing to pay 15% to 20% more for quality products,

Lots of people may say that but in the end it is not true at all. You friends might be the exception but the general attitude of the consumer does not give a hoot about the location of production just the price.

The solid proof is in the fact that we consume so much junk not produced here. If people would actually buy American over Chinese then producers would be creating those products here.

No one I know or meet would be seen dead at Walmart these days.
Attitudes have changed in NYC/LI since Trump started campaigning.

So you don't know anybody that shops at other discount stores such as Marc's, Sam's club, Amazon?

It's all the same. People trying to get products as cheap as possible.

We have 2 Costcos that have great prices and customer service and most people shop Amazon because of the reviews.
And yes, I have friends who sell on Amazon and Amazon does beat them down but my friends still manage to pay their 4K/month mortgages and go on vacation.

Sure they can, because they are getting their products cheaper.

Years ago this wasn't as much of a problem because there were less things to buy. You had a landline telephone, a color television with an antenna on the roof, a stereo, and probably belonged to a one car family.

Look at what we spend our money on today, especially when it comes to technology. Big 75" screen televisions, cell phones for every member in your family, cable or satellite television, satellite radio, internet, two or three video games plus the CD's or whatever they use now to play those games, pay per view.

When I was a kid in the 60's and 70's, McDonald's was a treat, not a weekly staple. We ate out four or five times a year. That's because we were a single-income family, and women stayed at home to prepare meals.

The point I'm making is that because we have so many things we want today (and I'm a victim like anybody else) is the American consumer has to make their dollars stretch much further.

I know a lot of people who live way above their heads and always want multiples of the latest gadgets.
Most of them get gratification from the purchase and possession than the use.
But most of them will buy American if it's available.

See above.

Did your time machine just bring you here from the 1980s, Dr Brown?

 

[Trump The Failure]

You don't want war with n Korea. Neither do I.

So how do we solve the n Korea problem?

I'm all ears

All I know is that I don't want a dangerous idiot like Trump making that decision...but you should have thought of that before you voted for him.

I didn't vote for him. I don't see him having many options and its much better have him than Clinton since it could be argued we wouldn't be in this position if it wasn't for the last Clinton deal

Wrong. Clinton is much more level-headed than Trump and performs much better under pressure than Trump. She proved this during the debates. Deep down, even an intellectually dishonest Repug like you knows this is true.

She faints, then someone has to drag her fat ass off to recover!

Even when she's unconscious Clinton makes better decisions than Trump the Mad President.

 

[RWS]

I'm seeing nothing in this thread as far as a viable solution. China is obviously not going to step up and help.

Not true. Both China and Russia voted FOR the recent severe sanctions imposed by the UN on North Korea. In the past, they would either abstain or veto.

Sanctions? WTF? Are sanctions working?

We are way beyond UN sanctions.

I mean... I don't get you people. Are we going to wait until they vaporize Guam? Is it going to take a nuke on San Francisco? Because that is where we're heading unless we take him out.

I actually agree with you on this.

Here's my thing.... next time they launch a test missile, we should try to shoot it down. And show our capabilities.

If we miss, we instantly go all in for a take-out, since that will provoke the meathead once he realizes what we tried, and we'll follow up with the equivalent to a first-strike.

If we hit it, we give them another ultimatum, lasting 24 hrs, and then go all in.

We have to show that they cannot threaten us with their weapons, and that requires using one of our interceptors to shoot down one of their test missiles. But if we miss... we have to go full force in, since they will strike back, and will make our tech look bad if not covered up by an immediate assault.

There's two problems here with your plan. First, it's not easy to shoot down a missile. What if you miss and your missile ends up landing in Seoul and killing a bunch of civilians? OR what if it's a live nuke that detonates when you hit it and it obliterates an ally? Second, this isn't a video game. An invasion and attack takes tremendous coordination and planning. The only rational way to invade is through SK and if we start building up forces there, he's going to know what we're doing.

If we hit their missile, it will be outside of the atmosphere.

Our interceptors are not going to hit SK, that's crazy. If we hit it, great. Sends a message. But that message has to be backed up very quickly in case NK takes it as an act of war.

If we miss... then we have to follow up with a full take-down. No nukes necessary. But we can't give them the chance to strike first, if we miss.

Either way, it's a terrible situation. This is not a video game. If we build up forces in SK, then it just creates a tremendously easy target of immobile troops.

We have to show our superiority in the air, in the ability to stop their ICBM's. And failing that, we have to go all in.

Diplomacy, at this point, is just allowing them to strengthen themselves, and fortify their positions.

I truly hope Kim realizes that he's a young dude, with lots of power and wealth and women, and all he can eat, and would rather not die by continuing his goal of self-destruction. But he seems like a big-ego person that may just be willing to lose it all. I hope not. For the sake of the innocent people.

Question is, how long, and how many threats, are we willing to tolerate? Before we have to do something bad?

 

[RWS]

Will a missile launch by NK that ends up near the waters of Guam, be enough to carpet bomb NK? Or do we still let them rattle their sabers even more?

 

[Gracie]

Send in his buddy, Rodman. Maybe he can talk sense in to him. Then again..maybe not.

 

[RWS]

Kim Jong-Un = Joffrey?