So What Happened To Blacks After Slavery?

[IM2]

Part of the gaslighting involves the issue of reparations. It's time whites stopped lying to themselves about the wealth they are living on, how it was created and the fact you live on compound interest accumulated by racist economic policies. Money made off my ancestors is what you are living on today.

APRIL 15, 2020
Why we need reparations for Black Americans
Rashawn Ray and Andre M. Perry

Today, the average white family has roughly 10 times the amount of wealth as the average Black family. White college graduates have over seven times more wealth than Black college graduates. Making the American Dream an equitable reality demands the same U.S. government that denied wealth to Blacks restore that deferred wealth through reparations to their descendants in the form of individual cash payments in the amount that will close the Black-white racial wealth divide. Additionally, reparations should come in the form of wealth-building opportunities that address racial disparities in education, housing, and business ownership.

In 1860, over $3 billion was the value assigned to the physical bodies of enslaved Black Americans to be used as free labor and production. This was more money than was invested in factories and railroads combined. In 1861, the value placed on cotton produced by enslaved Blacks was $250 million. Slavery enriched white slave owners and their descendants, and it fueled the country’s economy while suppressing wealth building for the enslaved. The United States has yet to compensate descendants of enslaved Black Americans for their labor. Nor has the federal government atoned for the lost equity from anti-Black housing, transportation, and business policy. Slavery, Jim Crow segregation, anti-Black practices like redlining, and other discriminatory public policies in criminal justice and education have robbed Black Americans of the opportunities to build wealth (defined as assets minus debt) afforded to their white peers.

Bootstrapping isn’t going to erase racial wealth divides. As economists William “Sandy” Darity and Darrick Hamilton point out in their 2018 report, What We Get Wrong About Closing the Wealth Gap, “Blacks cannot close the racial wealth gap by changing their individual behavior –i.e. by assuming more ‘personal responsibility’ or acquiring the portfolio management insights associated with ‘[financial] literacy.’” In fact, white high school dropouts have more wealth than Black college graduates. Moreover, the racial wealth gap did not result from a lack of labor. Rather, it came from a lack of financial capital.

Reparations—a system of redress for egregious injustices—are not foreign to the United States. Native Americans have received land and billions of dollars for various benefits and programs for being forcibly exiled from their native lands. For Japanese Americans, $1.5 billion was paid to those who were interned during World War II. Additionally, the United States, via the Marshall Plan, helped to ensure that Jews received reparations for the Holocaust, including making various investments over time. In 1952, West Germany agreed to pay 3.45 billion Deutsche Marks to Holocaust survivors.

Black Americans are the only group that has not received reparations for state-sanctioned racial discrimination, while slavery afforded some white families the ability to accrue tremendous wealth. And, we must note that American slavery was particularly brutal. About 15 percent of the enslaved shipped from Western Africa died during transport. The enslaved were regularly beaten and lynched for frivolous infractions. Slavery also disrupted families as one in three marriages were split up and one in five children were separated from their parents. The case for reparations can be made on economic, social, and moral grounds. The United States had multiple opportunities to atone for slavery—each a missed chance to make the American Dream a reality—but has yet to undertake significant action.

A quote from Dr. Kings “I Have a Dream speech. "

We have come to our nation’s capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. … It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked “insufficient funds.” But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt.

Given the lingering legacy of slavery on the racial wealth gap, the monetary value we know that was placed on enslaved Blacks, the fact that other groups have received reparations, and the fact that Blacks were originally awarded reparations only to have them rescinded provide overwhelming evidence that it is time to pay reparations to the descendants of enslaved Blacks.

Why we need reparations for Black Americans | Brookings

Rashawn Ray and Andre Perry outline the history of reparations in the United States, missed opportunities to redress the racial wealth gap, and specific details for a viable reparations package for Black Americans.

www.brookings.edu

Interesting concept! Here's a question for you in return though, IM2! Since the inception of LBJ's Great Society and the War on Poverty the United States has spent 22 Trillion dollars on anti poverty programs of which I think even a racist like yourself would admit the black community has received a lion's share? So how has that benefitted the black community? Other than the total breakdown of the black family? The lack of self reliance and intergenerational dependence on welfare?

The proof is rather stark that the War on Poverty's welfare system has been a colossal failure and the worst thing that could have happened to the black community but you'd have us ignore all that and institute an even larger "free money" handout to that same community?

This myth of 22 trillion on blacks is untrue. Again as a white racist you have held on to a bullshit meme started by Daniel Monyihan. During those mythical days when the black family was supposedly intact, blacks had a 55 percent poverty rate, a 25 percent high school graduation rate and very few people going to college. Things are far better than that now. Furthermore the majority of that mythical 22 trillion went to whites.

The reality here racist, is that whites have been the beneficiaries of a myriad of government programs since the nation started and even more specifically the last century that have amounted to far more than 22 trillion at the exclusion of blacks whereby the War on Poverty did not exclude whites.

Of course it didn't exclude whites! Newflash, IM2...there are just as many poor whites as there are poor blacks! The welfare State hurts them just as much as it does blacks! It's failed policy and skin pigmentation has nothing to do with the failure yet you think that handing out more free money is going to fix things? You're delusional!

Newsflash, poor whites did not suffer from government created segregation or were excluded from programs that allowed whites economic opportunities. 1 out of every 10 whites are poor, 1 out of ever 4 blacks are. There is no welfare state. Whites were not making such claims for most of the 20th century while they were beneficiaries of every government program created. But suddenly when others had the same chances, it became bad and then we have a welfare state that serves as a nanny for all those non whites who are being paid for by hard working "Americans."

Yet blacks had been overtaxed for years and paid for programs that allowed whites to gain upward mobility. So you are the delusional one when we take an accurate look at history. Free money has never been handed to anyone but whites. Mostly rich whites.

 

[IM2]

If you want to establish a reputation based on the same nonsense that IM2 posts, Tom then knock yourself out! Racial gaslighting? Seriously?

Tell us oldstyle, When did racism from whites end in America? Answer the question and don't ask me one.

Who ever said it had ended? What's amusing though is watching someone like you declaring that racism is the number one problem in the black community when America elected a black President not once but twice! Racism isn't the thing that's holding back poor black communities! They're being held back by the liberal policies that were supposed to help them only you're so fixated on perceived racism that you can't recognize where the real problem is!

The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. The majority of American whites did not vote for Obama and during his entire term he was disrespected by many in the white community , starting with birtherism. Black communities that are held back are done so because of white racism. Conservative policies would make things worse. You guys are crying about democratic cities but republicans run for those offices and if what they presented was better then republicans would run those cities. But living in a state ruined by conservative "governance", I know that liberal policies are not the problem in the black community.

Again, I am black, I know what the fucking problem is. You don't. Because the election of a black president is not an indicator that racist policies will not be enacted by local or state governments and in the US congress.

 

[22lcidw]

If you want to establish a reputation based on the same nonsense that IM2 posts, Tom then knock yourself out! Racial gaslighting? Seriously?

Tell us oldstyle, When did racism from whites end in America? Answer the question and don't ask me one.

Who ever said it had ended? What's amusing though is watching someone like you declaring that racism is the number one problem in the black community when America elected a black President not once but twice! Racism isn't the thing that's holding back poor black communities! They're being held back by the liberal policies that were supposed to help them only you're so fixated on perceived racism that you can't recognize where the real problem is!

The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. The majority of American whites did not vote for Obama and during his entire term he was disrespected by many in the white community , starting with birtherism. Black communities that are held back are done so because of white racism. Conservative policies would make things worse. You guys are crying about democratic cities but republicans run for those offices and if what they presented was better then republicans would run those cities. But living in a state ruined by conservative "governance", I know that liberal policies are not the problem in the black community.

Again, I am black, I know what the fucking problem is. You don't. Because the election of a black president is not an indicator that racist policies will not be enacted by local or state governments and in the US congress.

President Obama faced nothing compared to President Trump.

 

[IM2]

Old style would say the Puritans came to America for the higher wages, that Jews liberated from concentration camps went to Israel for better wages, that Americans fought for independence just for money, that Americans went overseas to fight and die during WWII to advance their careers ...

IM2 would say that the Puritans came to American because of racism...that Jews went to Israel because of racism...that American fought the Revolutionary war because of racism...that they also fought and died in WWII because of racism. It's a one size fits all with IM2 and Milkweed. Racism...racism and racism!

No, I would say that puritans came to America to escape the class persecution that was going on in Europe at the time between the nobility and the serfs. I would say that the revolutionary war was fought by the white colonists over the unfairness of being subject the British rule without being represented. I would say that soldiers like my dad fought in WW2 to stop the Germans, Italians and Japanese. Only a retard like you thinks I make everything about racism. I make racism about racism. IT'S NOT MY FAULT THAT WHITES LIKE YOU CONTINUE THE RACISM IN THIS COUNTRY.

How dare you say anything about the Puritans! You're black and they were white! According to you...only a white person who's relatives were Puritans can know the TRUTH about the Puritans! (eye roll) ...

Your eye rolling to the contrary notwithstanding, you miss the point ... again.

I don’t need a lesson on why Puritans came to this country, either, thank you very much. IM2 is wrong, by the way. The Puritans DID NOT come to these shores “to escape the class persecution that was going on in Europe at the time between the nobility and the serfs.“

But IM2 of course would not, and did not, say it was because of racism.

I could go on and talk about the importance for historians to research actual historical accounts, diaries, and verbal interviews where possible to uncover motivation, as distinct from theorizing abstractly or being a crude “historical materialist.” I don’t know, but I fear that might be lost on you. It seems to me you are not approaching these questions objectively, but emotionally, just as you accuse IM2 of doing.

I think katsteve2012 has the best overall take on this question. He tries to see it in its many different dimensions.

I'm approaching this "emotionally"? With all due respect, Tom...I could care less about this topic. I simply find IM2 to be myopic in his views of history and I enjoy picking on him by pointing out how myopic those views are! You want "emotion"? Talk to IM2 and Milk Weed! They'll give you all the drama and emotion you can handle!

There is nothing myopic about how I have approached this or my view of American racial history. You seek excuses so you as a white person can feel better. That's all your opposition is about. You aren't picking and showing anything but your abject ignorance. I am correct in this matter and whatever you called yourself doing has failed.

How is this making me feel better as a white person? I've never been a racist. I judge people by their actions not their skin pigmentation. You on the other hand are one of the most racist people I've ever run across. You judge people solely by their skin color and THAT my friend makes you as myopic as it gets!

Spare me your lies about how you judge people. This thread has been about government policy and you are the one talking about skin color. In this thread, I have stated that not all whites are the problem and I provided examples of that by using information done by whites to discuss the issues. So stop crying. This thread is to allow those like you to understand the manner in which the government has participated at every level to create and maintain a system of white racial preference that still exists at this very moment.

This is about a system built on a pattern of behavior and belief by members of the white community. This is not just looking at whites and calling all them racists. But this is how it goes every fucking time because people like you have white fragility and instead of looking at the big picture I have to read about what the fuck you haven't done. Well motherfucker, somebody white is doing it and we all know that, so then maybe you try stopping it instead of whining about a racism that's not there because you can't handle the truth.

Oh, so any liberal white person that regurgitates the crap that you're pushing ISN'T a racist...but all the rest of us are? You know what's sad, IM2! The white people that you love to quote are the very same people who have put blacks on the government "plantation" going all the way back to LBJ! They treat you like victims...not grown adults...and you let them do it. Then they turn around and use what they spouted as "proof" that they aren't racist...that THEY have your best interests at heart!
But do they REALLY? What has sixty years of being treated like children done for the black people of America?

Did you ever listen to Liberals discussing minorities?
Minorities are helpless without Whitey.

You do understand that you are lying?

Liberals exist here and they aren't doing this. You republicans are trying to gaslight in the hope that you can get just enough blacks to become republicans so that you can implement your white racist agenda.

You guys spew racism every motherfucking day, then try telling me how everyvody but you is a racist.

I'm curious, IM2...when Barry was President and Democrats controlled the House and the Senate? What did they do to make the lives of black Americans better? They had control of the country...so what did your liberals "pals" do for you?

View attachment 330099

Couldn't come up with anything Democrats did to help poor blacks during the time they totally controlled Washington? Why am I not surprised...

Except I did. Let's not forget the AHCA.

The Affordable Care Act decreased black unemployment? How so? The ACA was a jobs killer! If you were a black person in America looking for work it was just one more thing standing in the way of you getting a job!

You are correct; if anything, the ACA's reliance on technology resulted in uneducated minorities being laid off from health fields.

Incorrect.

Really?
You are so wrong, it's pathetic.
I actually think the ACA has worked out really well but the entire staff requires rigorous training and many Blacks couldn't cut the mustard.

Incorrect.

You know what's cool?
Not you.

You know what's boring?
Your existence.

You have a product to sell?
Put it on Amazon.
Or does Amazon on allow Whites to place product on their database.

Racial gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse where white supremacists (consciously and unconsciously) seek to maintain power and control through manipulation and bullying of non-white people. This is acted out through sowing doubt around the definition, experience and impact of racism (white supremacy) with an individual or as a group, making it difficult for them to trust their instincts, feelings and core sense of self.

Examples include, pretending not to see or understand racism, refusing to listen to those impacted by racism, minimizing our experience and the traumatic impact of racism. Verbal examples include:

‘It’s not that bad.’
‘Not everything is about race’
‘That happened along time ago’
‘There’s only one human race.’
‘You’re imagining things’
‘You’re to sensitive.’
‘ Why are you always so angry?’
‘ You have a chip on your shoulder’

What is Racial Gaslighting? – June Allen

juneallen.net

Why are you so angry? You're too sensitive. And You're imagining things --- ALL OF THESE are useful in varying situations.. It's ONLY in the situation where it makes you U N C O M F O R T ABLE, that you can even PULL the "gaslighting" card for these...

And you are gaslighting. I present gaslighting because it is what whites have done after slavery. I am not the one feeling uncomfortable.

Gee whiz.. When did that gaslighting rule get created? Was it REALLY FAR back in the early days of developing the English language? Like a warning about gaslighting that I missed in 3rd grade grammar or sumthin'??? LOL....

Whatever. You have participated in racial gaslighting and you still are tryingto do so.

 

[IM2]

If you want to establish a reputation based on the same nonsense that IM2 posts, Tom then knock yourself out! Racial gaslighting? Seriously?

Tell us oldstyle, When did racism from whites end in America? Answer the question and don't ask me one.

Who ever said it had ended? What's amusing though is watching someone like you declaring that racism is the number one problem in the black community when America elected a black President not once but twice! Racism isn't the thing that's holding back poor black communities! They're being held back by the liberal policies that were supposed to help them only you're so fixated on perceived racism that you can't recognize where the real problem is!

The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. The majority of American whites did not vote for Obama and during his entire term he was disrespected by many in the white community , starting with birtherism. Black communities that are held back are done so because of white racism. Conservative policies would make things worse. You guys are crying about democratic cities but republicans run for those offices and if what they presented was better then republicans would run those cities. But living in a state ruined by conservative "governance", I know that liberal policies are not the problem in the black community.

Again, I am black, I know what the fucking problem is. You don't. Because the election of a black president is not an indicator that racist policies will not be enacted by local or state governments and in the US congress.

President Obama faced nothing compared to President Trump.

That's a lie. And trump has created his own problems. This thread is not about trump or Obama.

 

[Oldestyle]

If you want to establish a reputation based on the same nonsense that IM2 posts, Tom then knock yourself out! Racial gaslighting? Seriously?

Tell us oldstyle, When did racism from whites end in America? Answer the question and don't ask me one.

Who ever said it had ended? What's amusing though is watching someone like you declaring that racism is the number one problem in the black community when America elected a black President not once but twice! Racism isn't the thing that's holding back poor black communities! They're being held back by the liberal policies that were supposed to help them only you're so fixated on perceived racism that you can't recognize where the real problem is!

The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. The majority of American whites did not vote for Obama and during his entire term he was disrespected by many in the white community , starting with birtherism. Black communities that are held back are done so because of white racism. Conservative policies would make things worse. You guys are crying about democratic cities but republicans run for those offices and if what they presented was better then republicans would run those cities. But living in a state ruined by conservative "governance", I know that liberal policies are not the problem in the black community.

Again, I am black, I know what the fucking problem is. You don't. Because the election of a black president is not an indicator that racist policies will not be enacted by local or state governments and in the US congress.

Interesting...so what percentage of blacks voted for Mitt Romney over Barack Obama? Now compare THAT number with the percentage of white Americans who voted for Obama! Which group now looks the most racist to you, IM2?

I'm curious...what State is it that you live in that's been "ruined" by conservative governance?

 

[Oldestyle]

You seem to expect white voters to vote for a black candidate to somehow prove that THEY aren't racist...but have no problem at all with almost no blacks at all voting for a white candidate.!
39% of whites voted for Obama. 6% of blacks voted for Romney. So which group is REALLY the racist group, IM2?

 

[IM2]

If you want to establish a reputation based on the same nonsense that IM2 posts, Tom then knock yourself out! Racial gaslighting? Seriously?

Tell us oldstyle, When did racism from whites end in America? Answer the question and don't ask me one.

Who ever said it had ended? What's amusing though is watching someone like you declaring that racism is the number one problem in the black community when America elected a black President not once but twice! Racism isn't the thing that's holding back poor black communities! They're being held back by the liberal policies that were supposed to help them only you're so fixated on perceived racism that you can't recognize where the real problem is!

The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. The majority of American whites did not vote for Obama and during his entire term he was disrespected by many in the white community , starting with birtherism. Black communities that are held back are done so because of white racism. Conservative policies would make things worse. You guys are crying about democratic cities but republicans run for those offices and if what they presented was better then republicans would run those cities. But living in a state ruined by conservative "governance", I know that liberal policies are not the problem in the black community.

Again, I am black, I know what the fucking problem is. You don't. Because the election of a black president is not an indicator that racist policies will not be enacted by local or state governments and in the US congress.

Interesting...so what percentage of blacks voted for Mitt Romney over Barack Obama? Now compare THAT number with the percentage of white Americans who voted for Obama! Which group now looks the most racist to you, IM2?

I'm curious...what State is it that you live in that's been "ruined" by conservative governance?

Blacks had voted for white candidates and voted to nominate white candidates when blacks were running for president. I live in a state that was ruined by republican policies. There are quite a few of them, but the thread is not about that. It is about what has been done to blacks since slavery. That seems to be an issue you do not want to discuss.

 

[IM2]

You seem to expect white voters to vote for a black candidate to somehow prove that THEY aren't racist...but have no problem at all with almost no blacks at all voting for a white candidate.!
39% of whites voted for Obama. 6% of blacks voted for Romney. So which group is REALLY the racist group, IM2?

Again, blacks have voted for white presidential candidates. This thread is about what has happened to blacks since slavery and not the white mans desperate search for ways to call black people racists.

 

[Oldestyle]

If you want to establish a reputation based on the same nonsense that IM2 posts, Tom then knock yourself out! Racial gaslighting? Seriously?

Tell us oldstyle, When did racism from whites end in America? Answer the question and don't ask me one.

Who ever said it had ended? What's amusing though is watching someone like you declaring that racism is the number one problem in the black community when America elected a black President not once but twice! Racism isn't the thing that's holding back poor black communities! They're being held back by the liberal policies that were supposed to help them only you're so fixated on perceived racism that you can't recognize where the real problem is!

The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. The majority of American whites did not vote for Obama and during his entire term he was disrespected by many in the white community , starting with birtherism. Black communities that are held back are done so because of white racism. Conservative policies would make things worse. You guys are crying about democratic cities but republicans run for those offices and if what they presented was better then republicans would run those cities. But living in a state ruined by conservative "governance", I know that liberal policies are not the problem in the black community.

Again, I am black, I know what the fucking problem is. You don't. Because the election of a black president is not an indicator that racist policies will not be enacted by local or state governments and in the US congress.

Interesting...so what percentage of blacks voted for Mitt Romney over Barack Obama? Now compare THAT number with the percentage of white Americans who voted for Obama! Which group now looks the most racist to you, IM2?

I'm curious...what State is it that you live in that's been "ruined" by conservative governance?

Blacks had voted for white candidates and voted to nominate white candidates when blacks were running for president. I live in a state that was ruined by republican policies. There are quite a few of them, but the thread is not about that. It is about what has been done to blacks since slavery. That seems to be an issue you do not want to discuss.

Again...what State has been ruined by Republican policies?

 

[Oldestyle]

You seem to expect white voters to vote for a black candidate to somehow prove that THEY aren't racist...but have no problem at all with almost no blacks at all voting for a white candidate.!
39% of whites voted for Obama. 6% of blacks voted for Romney. So which group is REALLY the racist group, IM2?

Again, blacks have voted for white presidential candidates. This thread is about what has happened to blacks since slavery and not the white mans desperate search for ways to call black people racists.

A few voted for a white candidate but it was a precious few! What I find striking however is the large number of whites that voted for a black candidate! Amazing...since your contention is that "racism" is what is holding back black people in America! Almost 40% of whites voted for the "other" guy! Kind of shoots holes in your narrative...doesn't it, IM2?

 

[MizMolly]

Part of the gaslighting involves the issue of reparations. It's time whites stopped lying to themselves about the wealth they are living on, how it was created and the fact you live on compound interest accumulated by racist economic policies. Money made off my ancestors is what you are living on today.

APRIL 15, 2020
Why we need reparations for Black Americans
Rashawn Ray and Andre M. Perry

Today, the average white family has roughly 10 times the amount of wealth as the average Black family. White college graduates have over seven times more wealth than Black college graduates. Making the American Dream an equitable reality demands the same U.S. government that denied wealth to Blacks restore that deferred wealth through reparations to their descendants in the form of individual cash payments in the amount that will close the Black-white racial wealth divide. Additionally, reparations should come in the form of wealth-building opportunities that address racial disparities in education, housing, and business ownership.

In 1860, over $3 billion was the value assigned to the physical bodies of enslaved Black Americans to be used as free labor and production. This was more money than was invested in factories and railroads combined. In 1861, the value placed on cotton produced by enslaved Blacks was $250 million. Slavery enriched white slave owners and their descendants, and it fueled the country’s economy while suppressing wealth building for the enslaved. The United States has yet to compensate descendants of enslaved Black Americans for their labor. Nor has the federal government atoned for the lost equity from anti-Black housing, transportation, and business policy. Slavery, Jim Crow segregation, anti-Black practices like redlining, and other discriminatory public policies in criminal justice and education have robbed Black Americans of the opportunities to build wealth (defined as assets minus debt) afforded to their white peers.

Bootstrapping isn’t going to erase racial wealth divides. As economists William “Sandy” Darity and Darrick Hamilton point out in their 2018 report, What We Get Wrong About Closing the Wealth Gap, “Blacks cannot close the racial wealth gap by changing their individual behavior –i.e. by assuming more ‘personal responsibility’ or acquiring the portfolio management insights associated with ‘[financial] literacy.’” In fact, white high school dropouts have more wealth than Black college graduates. Moreover, the racial wealth gap did not result from a lack of labor. Rather, it came from a lack of financial capital.

Reparations—a system of redress for egregious injustices—are not foreign to the United States. Native Americans have received land and billions of dollars for various benefits and programs for being forcibly exiled from their native lands. For Japanese Americans, $1.5 billion was paid to those who were interned during World War II. Additionally, the United States, via the Marshall Plan, helped to ensure that Jews received reparations for the Holocaust, including making various investments over time. In 1952, West Germany agreed to pay 3.45 billion Deutsche Marks to Holocaust survivors.

Black Americans are the only group that has not received reparations for state-sanctioned racial discrimination, while slavery afforded some white families the ability to accrue tremendous wealth. And, we must note that American slavery was particularly brutal. About 15 percent of the enslaved shipped from Western Africa died during transport. The enslaved were regularly beaten and lynched for frivolous infractions. Slavery also disrupted families as one in three marriages were split up and one in five children were separated from their parents. The case for reparations can be made on economic, social, and moral grounds. The United States had multiple opportunities to atone for slavery—each a missed chance to make the American Dream a reality—but has yet to undertake significant action.

A quote from Dr. Kings “I Have a Dream speech. "

We have come to our nation’s capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. … It is obvious today that America has defaulted on this promissory note insofar as her citizens of color are concerned. Instead of honoring this sacred obligation, America has given the Negro people a bad check, a check which has come back marked “insufficient funds.” But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt.

Given the lingering legacy of slavery on the racial wealth gap, the monetary value we know that was placed on enslaved Blacks, the fact that other groups have received reparations, and the fact that Blacks were originally awarded reparations only to have them rescinded provide overwhelming evidence that it is time to pay reparations to the descendants of enslaved Blacks.

Why we need reparations for Black Americans | Brookings

Rashawn Ray and Andre Perry outline the history of reparations in the United States, missed opportunities to redress the racial wealth gap, and specific details for a viable reparations package for Black Americans.

www.brookings.edu

Interesting concept! Here's a question for you in return though, IM2! Since the inception of LBJ's Great Society and the War on Poverty the United States has spent 22 Trillion dollars on anti poverty programs of which I think even a racist like yourself would admit the black community has received a lion's share? So how has that benefitted the black community? Other than the total breakdown of the black family? The lack of self reliance and intergenerational dependence on welfare?

The proof is rather stark that the War on Poverty's welfare system has been a colossal failure and the worst thing that could have happened to the black community but you'd have us ignore all that and institute an even larger "free money" handout to that same community?

This myth of 22 trillion on blacks is untrue. Again as a white racist you have held on to a bullshit meme started by Daniel Monyihan. During those mythical days when the black family was supposedly intact, blacks had a 55 percent poverty rate, a 25 percent high school graduation rate and very few people going to college. Things are far better than that now. Furthermore the majority of that mythical 22 trillion went to whites.

The reality here racist, is that whites have been the beneficiaries of a myriad of government programs since the nation started and even more specifically the last century that have amounted to far more than 22 trillion at the exclusion of blacks whereby the War on Poverty did not exclude whites.

I supposed you blame low black graduation rates on whites too?

 

[MizMolly]

If you want to establish a reputation based on the same nonsense that IM2 posts, Tom then knock yourself out! Racial gaslighting? Seriously?

Tell us oldstyle, When did racism from whites end in America? Answer the question and don't ask me one.

Who ever said it had ended? What's amusing though is watching someone like you declaring that racism is the number one problem in the black community when America elected a black President not once but twice! Racism isn't the thing that's holding back poor black communities! They're being held back by the liberal policies that were supposed to help them only you're so fixated on perceived racism that you can't recognize where the real problem is!

The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. The majority of American whites did not vote for Obama and during his entire term he was disrespected by many in the white community , starting with birtherism. Black communities that are held back are done so because of white racism. Conservative policies would make things worse. You guys are crying about democratic cities but republicans run for those offices and if what they presented was better then republicans would run those cities. But living in a state ruined by conservative "governance", I know that liberal policies are not the problem in the black community.

Again, I am black, I know what the fucking problem is. You don't. Because the election of a black president is not an indicator that racist policies will not be enacted by local or state governments and in the US congress.

Interesting...so what percentage of blacks voted for Mitt Romney over Barack Obama? Now compare THAT number with the percentage of white Americans who voted for Obama! Which group now looks the most racist to you, IM2?

I'm curious...what State is it that you live in that's been "ruined" by conservative governance?

Blacks had voted for white candidates and voted to nominate white candidates when blacks were running for president. I live in a state that was ruined by republican policies. There are quite a few of them, but the thread is not about that. It is about what has been done to blacks since slavery. That seems to be an issue you do not want to discuss.

Most white people vote for who they think is the right candidate, not based on their race.

 

[IM2]

You seem to expect white voters to vote for a black candidate to somehow prove that THEY aren't racist...but have no problem at all with almost no blacks at all voting for a white candidate.!
39% of whites voted for Obama. 6% of blacks voted for Romney. So which group is REALLY the racist group, IM2?

Again, blacks have voted for white presidential candidates. This thread is about what has happened to blacks since slavery and not the white mans desperate search for ways to call black people racists.

A few voted for a white candidate but it was a precious few! What I find striking however is the large number of whites that voted for a black candidate! Amazing...since your contention is that "racism" is what is holding back black people in America! Almost 40% of whites voted for the "other" guy! Kind of shoots holes in your narrative...doesn't it, IM2?

No.

We've voted for white candidates since 1964. OK? Understand?

The root cause of the problems black face is white racism and had whites been the only voters Obama would have lost by double digits both times.

Now, from the beginning of this thread I have shown things that the government and individual whites have done to blacks. You have consistently run from those issues.

“Abuse is a form of mistreatment by one individual that causes harm to another person.”

National Adult Protective Services Association​

What do people think racism is? There have been several definitions of racism over time. What racism is seems to depend on your race or ideology. For blacks, most nonwhites and non-racist whites the term is defined as a belief in the superiority of your race. Yet to certain whites, racism is anything negatively said about whites, even if it’s historically documented fact. Let us go beyond these definitions because they limit racism and makes it out to be a simple matter that can easily be overcome by simply ignoring the racist behavior and that it has no impact upon those it is imposed upon. When looked upon critically, racism is a form of abusive behavior based upon a belief in racial superiority.

“Bryant-Davis and Ocampo (2005) noted similar courses of psychopathology between rape victims and victims of racism. Both events are an assault on the personhood and integrity of the victim. Similar to rape victims, race-related trauma victims may respond with disbelief, shock, or dissociation, which can prevent them from responding to the incident in a healthy manner. The victim may then feel shame and self-blame because they were unable to respond or defend themselves, which may lead to low self-concept and self-destructive behaviors. In the same study, a parallel was drawn between race-related trauma victims and victims of domestic violence. Both survivors are made to feel shame over allowing themselves to be victimized. For instance, someone who may have experienced a racist incident may be told that if they are polite, work hard, and/or dress in a certain way, they will not encounter racism. When these rules are followed yet racism persists, powerlessness, hyper vigilance, and other symptoms associated with PTSD may develop or worsen (Bryant-Davis & Ocampo, 2005).”

Monnica T. Williams Ph.D.​

The psychological impact of racism must be paid attention to if there is ever going to be a true and logical reduction in the behavior. This is mainly due to a refusal to accept that certain behaviors done by nonwhites are caused by white racism. Racism causes chronic stress. Understanding this has serious implications for health outcomes in the black community. While I am not a doctor, what I have read by medical professionals explains how constant stress will create unhealthy outcomes. The continuing racism blacks face keep blacks stressed out and creates chemical imbalances within our bodies causing a wide variety of health problems.

If you study abuse, it has been shown that specific types of abuse can cause different types of behaviors ether positive or negative. I’ve done like many others and have discussed racism with whites in person to person interactions, public social gatherings, online forums, message walls, chat rooms and other social media. I have tried to inform on the impact of racism from the perspective of being black. What I discovered is that a lot of whites really don’t have an understanding about what racism can do to a person. For example, you try explaining to a white person that blacks riot in their communities because of racism and the first thing you hear is, “Come on man white racism did not cause that.”

That anecdote is an example of a person who has not experienced the first second of what racism does to a person talking about what they believe cannot happen. Yet if you talk to this same person about child abuse, sexual abuse or other types of abuses, they are more than able to talk about the behaviors that can result. But racism, well that’s just something you can easily get beyond. Meanwhile every other type of abuse is a lifelong struggle for the person who must deal with it.

Racism includes and has included these things:

Emotional/Psychological abuse
Financial abuse
Physical abuse
Sexual abuse
Verbal abuse
Spiritual abuse

This is what we will talk about. If you cannot, leave.

 

[IM2]

If you want to establish a reputation based on the same nonsense that IM2 posts, Tom then knock yourself out! Racial gaslighting? Seriously?

Tell us oldstyle, When did racism from whites end in America? Answer the question and don't ask me one.

Who ever said it had ended? What's amusing though is watching someone like you declaring that racism is the number one problem in the black community when America elected a black President not once but twice! Racism isn't the thing that's holding back poor black communities! They're being held back by the liberal policies that were supposed to help them only you're so fixated on perceived racism that you can't recognize where the real problem is!

The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. The majority of American whites did not vote for Obama and during his entire term he was disrespected by many in the white community , starting with birtherism. Black communities that are held back are done so because of white racism. Conservative policies would make things worse. You guys are crying about democratic cities but republicans run for those offices and if what they presented was better then republicans would run those cities. But living in a state ruined by conservative "governance", I know that liberal policies are not the problem in the black community.

Again, I am black, I know what the fucking problem is. You don't. Because the election of a black president is not an indicator that racist policies will not be enacted by local or state governments and in the US congress.

Interesting...so what percentage of blacks voted for Mitt Romney over Barack Obama? Now compare THAT number with the percentage of white Americans who voted for Obama! Which group now looks the most racist to you, IM2?

I'm curious...what State is it that you live in that's been "ruined" by conservative governance?

Blacks had voted for white candidates and voted to nominate white candidates when blacks were running for president. I live in a state that was ruined by republican policies. There are quite a few of them, but the thread is not about that. It is about what has been done to blacks since slavery. That seems to be an issue you do not want to discuss.

Again...what State has been ruined by Republican policies?

There will no longer be any off topic conversations.

 

[Oldestyle]

If you want to establish a reputation based on the same nonsense that IM2 posts, Tom then knock yourself out! Racial gaslighting? Seriously?

Tell us oldstyle, When did racism from whites end in America? Answer the question and don't ask me one.

Who ever said it had ended? What's amusing though is watching someone like you declaring that racism is the number one problem in the black community when America elected a black President not once but twice! Racism isn't the thing that's holding back poor black communities! They're being held back by the liberal policies that were supposed to help them only you're so fixated on perceived racism that you can't recognize where the real problem is!

The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. The majority of American whites did not vote for Obama and during his entire term he was disrespected by many in the white community , starting with birtherism. Black communities that are held back are done so because of white racism. Conservative policies would make things worse. You guys are crying about democratic cities but republicans run for those offices and if what they presented was better then republicans would run those cities. But living in a state ruined by conservative "governance", I know that liberal policies are not the problem in the black community.

Again, I am black, I know what the fucking problem is. You don't. Because the election of a black president is not an indicator that racist policies will not be enacted by local or state governments and in the US congress.

Interesting...so what percentage of blacks voted for Mitt Romney over Barack Obama? Now compare THAT number with the percentage of white Americans who voted for Obama! Which group now looks the most racist to you, IM2?

I'm curious...what State is it that you live in that's been "ruined" by conservative governance?

Blacks had voted for white candidates and voted to nominate white candidates when blacks were running for president. I live in a state that was ruined by republican policies. There are quite a few of them, but the thread is not about that. It is about what has been done to blacks since slavery. That seems to be an issue you do not want to discuss.

Again...what State has been ruined by Republican policies?

There will no longer be any off topic conversations.

I see how it works! You can claim that Republicans have ruined your State with their policies...but when I ask something as simple as what State that would be...you take "the 5th"? You get more pathetic by the day!

 

[Oldestyle]

You seem to expect white voters to vote for a black candidate to somehow prove that THEY aren't racist...but have no problem at all with almost no blacks at all voting for a white candidate.!
39% of whites voted for Obama. 6% of blacks voted for Romney. So which group is REALLY the racist group, IM2?

Again, blacks have voted for white presidential candidates. This thread is about what has happened to blacks since slavery and not the white mans desperate search for ways to call black people racists.

A few voted for a white candidate but it was a precious few! What I find striking however is the large number of whites that voted for a black candidate! Amazing...since your contention is that "racism" is what is holding back black people in America! Almost 40% of whites voted for the "other" guy! Kind of shoots holes in your narrative...doesn't it, IM2?

No.

We've voted for white candidates since 1964. OK? Understand?

The root cause of the problems black face is white racism and had whites been the only voters Obama would have lost by double digits both times.

Now, from the beginning of this thread I have shown things that the government and individual whites have done to blacks. You have consistently run from those issues.

“Abuse is a form of mistreatment by one individual that causes harm to another person.”

National Adult Protective Services Association​

What do people think racism is? There have been several definitions of racism over time. What racism is seems to depend on your race or ideology. For blacks, most nonwhites and non-racist whites the term is defined as a belief in the superiority of your race. Yet to certain whites, racism is anything negatively said about whites, even if it’s historically documented fact. Let us go beyond these definitions because they limit racism and makes it out to be a simple matter that can easily be overcome by simply ignoring the racist behavior and that it has no impact upon those it is imposed upon. When looked upon critically, racism is a form of abusive behavior based upon a belief in racial superiority.

“Bryant-Davis and Ocampo (2005) noted similar courses of psychopathology between rape victims and victims of racism. Both events are an assault on the personhood and integrity of the victim. Similar to rape victims, race-related trauma victims may respond with disbelief, shock, or dissociation, which can prevent them from responding to the incident in a healthy manner. The victim may then feel shame and self-blame because they were unable to respond or defend themselves, which may lead to low self-concept and self-destructive behaviors. In the same study, a parallel was drawn between race-related trauma victims and victims of domestic violence. Both survivors are made to feel shame over allowing themselves to be victimized. For instance, someone who may have experienced a racist incident may be told that if they are polite, work hard, and/or dress in a certain way, they will not encounter racism. When these rules are followed yet racism persists, powerlessness, hyper vigilance, and other symptoms associated with PTSD may develop or worsen (Bryant-Davis & Ocampo, 2005).”

Monnica T. Williams Ph.D.​

The psychological impact of racism must be paid attention to if there is ever going to be a true and logical reduction in the behavior. This is mainly due to a refusal to accept that certain behaviors done by nonwhites are caused by white racism. Racism causes chronic stress. Understanding this has serious implications for health outcomes in the black community. While I am not a doctor, what I have read by medical professionals explains how constant stress will create unhealthy outcomes. The continuing racism blacks face keep blacks stressed out and creates chemical imbalances within our bodies causing a wide variety of health problems.

If you study abuse, it has been shown that specific types of abuse can cause different types of behaviors ether positive or negative. I’ve done like many others and have discussed racism with whites in person to person interactions, public social gatherings, online forums, message walls, chat rooms and other social media. I have tried to inform on the impact of racism from the perspective of being black. What I discovered is that a lot of whites really don’t have an understanding about what racism can do to a person. For example, you try explaining to a white person that blacks riot in their communities because of racism and the first thing you hear is, “Come on man white racism did not cause that.”

That anecdote is an example of a person who has not experienced the first second of what racism does to a person talking about what they believe cannot happen. Yet if you talk to this same person about child abuse, sexual abuse or other types of abuses, they are more than able to talk about the behaviors that can result. But racism, well that’s just something you can easily get beyond. Meanwhile every other type of abuse is a lifelong struggle for the person who must deal with it.

Racism includes and has included these things:

Emotional/Psychological abuse
Financial abuse
Physical abuse
Sexual abuse
Verbal abuse
Spiritual abuse

This is what we will talk about. If you cannot, leave.

"We've voted for white candidates since 1964. OK? Understand?
The root cause of the problems black face is white racism and had whites been the only voters Obama would have lost by double digits both times." IM2

Blacks haven't voted for black candidates since 1964? In predominantly black districts blacks have voted overwhelmingly for black candidates! OK?
If blacks had been the only voters than Obama would have won by the largest margins in American political history both times!
Your logic is so flawed it's breathtaking!!!

 

[IM2]

If you want to establish a reputation based on the same nonsense that IM2 posts, Tom then knock yourself out! Racial gaslighting? Seriously?

Tell us oldstyle, When did racism from whites end in America? Answer the question and don't ask me one.

Who ever said it had ended? What's amusing though is watching someone like you declaring that racism is the number one problem in the black community when America elected a black President not once but twice! Racism isn't the thing that's holding back poor black communities! They're being held back by the liberal policies that were supposed to help them only you're so fixated on perceived racism that you can't recognize where the real problem is!

The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. The majority of American whites did not vote for Obama and during his entire term he was disrespected by many in the white community , starting with birtherism. Black communities that are held back are done so because of white racism. Conservative policies would make things worse. You guys are crying about democratic cities but republicans run for those offices and if what they presented was better then republicans would run those cities. But living in a state ruined by conservative "governance", I know that liberal policies are not the problem in the black community.

Again, I am black, I know what the fucking problem is. You don't. Because the election of a black president is not an indicator that racist policies will not be enacted by local or state governments and in the US congress.

Interesting...so what percentage of blacks voted for Mitt Romney over Barack Obama? Now compare THAT number with the percentage of white Americans who voted for Obama! Which group now looks the most racist to you, IM2?

I'm curious...what State is it that you live in that's been "ruined" by conservative governance?

Blacks had voted for white candidates and voted to nominate white candidates when blacks were running for president. I live in a state that was ruined by republican policies. There are quite a few of them, but the thread is not about that. It is about what has been done to blacks since slavery. That seems to be an issue you do not want to discuss.

Again...what State has been ruined by Republican policies?

There will no longer be any off topic conversations.

I see how it works! You can claim that Republicans have ruined your State with their policies...but when I ask something as simple as what State that would be...you take "the 5th"? You get more pathetic by the day!

No. You have been told a number of times to stick to the topic. You don't want to talk about the topic because it shuts up your attempt to deny the existence of white racism, blame blacks for all of the problems we face like we did them on our own and yo can't face the damage it has caused and continues to cause. So either address the issues presented or leave.

 

[Oldestyle]

If you want to establish a reputation based on the same nonsense that IM2 posts, Tom then knock yourself out! Racial gaslighting? Seriously?

Tell us oldstyle, When did racism from whites end in America? Answer the question and don't ask me one.

Who ever said it had ended? What's amusing though is watching someone like you declaring that racism is the number one problem in the black community when America elected a black President not once but twice! Racism isn't the thing that's holding back poor black communities! They're being held back by the liberal policies that were supposed to help them only you're so fixated on perceived racism that you can't recognize where the real problem is!

The root cause of the problems blacks face is white racism. The majority of American whites did not vote for Obama and during his entire term he was disrespected by many in the white community , starting with birtherism. Black communities that are held back are done so because of white racism. Conservative policies would make things worse. You guys are crying about democratic cities but republicans run for those offices and if what they presented was better then republicans would run those cities. But living in a state ruined by conservative "governance", I know that liberal policies are not the problem in the black community.

Again, I am black, I know what the fucking problem is. You don't. Because the election of a black president is not an indicator that racist policies will not be enacted by local or state governments and in the US congress.

Interesting...so what percentage of blacks voted for Mitt Romney over Barack Obama? Now compare THAT number with the percentage of white Americans who voted for Obama! Which group now looks the most racist to you, IM2?

I'm curious...what State is it that you live in that's been "ruined" by conservative governance?

Blacks had voted for white candidates and voted to nominate white candidates when blacks were running for president. I live in a state that was ruined by republican policies. There are quite a few of them, but the thread is not about that. It is about what has been done to blacks since slavery. That seems to be an issue you do not want to discuss.

Again...what State has been ruined by Republican policies?

There will no longer be any off topic conversations.

I see how it works! You can claim that Republicans have ruined your State with their policies...but when I ask something as simple as what State that would be...you take "the 5th"? You get more pathetic by the day!

No. You have been told a number of times to stick to the topic. You don't want to talk about the topic because it shuts up your attempt to deny the existence of white racism, blame blacks for all of the problems we face like we did them on our own and yo can't face the damage it has caused and continues to cause. So either address the issues presented or leave.

I'm asking a question about something YOU stated in one of your posts, you blow hard! Do you for some reason think you can make allegations and then choose not to address them because you deem them to be "off topic"? If it was off topic then why did you post it in the first place? Duh?

 

[IM2]

You seem to expect white voters to vote for a black candidate to somehow prove that THEY aren't racist...but have no problem at all with almost no blacks at all voting for a white candidate.!
39% of whites voted for Obama. 6% of blacks voted for Romney. So which group is REALLY the racist group, IM2?

Again, blacks have voted for white presidential candidates. This thread is about what has happened to blacks since slavery and not the white mans desperate search for ways to call black people racists.

A few voted for a white candidate but it was a precious few! What I find striking however is the large number of whites that voted for a black candidate! Amazing...since your contention is that "racism" is what is holding back black people in America! Almost 40% of whites voted for the "other" guy! Kind of shoots holes in your narrative...doesn't it, IM2?

No.

We've voted for white candidates since 1964. OK? Understand?

The root cause of the problems black face is white racism and had whites been the only voters Obama would have lost by double digits both times.

Now, from the beginning of this thread I have shown things that the government and individual whites have done to blacks. You have consistently run from those issues.

“Abuse is a form of mistreatment by one individual that causes harm to another person.”

National Adult Protective Services Association​

What do people think racism is? There have been several definitions of racism over time. What racism is seems to depend on your race or ideology. For blacks, most nonwhites and non-racist whites the term is defined as a belief in the superiority of your race. Yet to certain whites, racism is anything negatively said about whites, even if it’s historically documented fact. Let us go beyond these definitions because they limit racism and makes it out to be a simple matter that can easily be overcome by simply ignoring the racist behavior and that it has no impact upon those it is imposed upon. When looked upon critically, racism is a form of abusive behavior based upon a belief in racial superiority.

“Bryant-Davis and Ocampo (2005) noted similar courses of psychopathology between rape victims and victims of racism. Both events are an assault on the personhood and integrity of the victim. Similar to rape victims, race-related trauma victims may respond with disbelief, shock, or dissociation, which can prevent them from responding to the incident in a healthy manner. The victim may then feel shame and self-blame because they were unable to respond or defend themselves, which may lead to low self-concept and self-destructive behaviors. In the same study, a parallel was drawn between race-related trauma victims and victims of domestic violence. Both survivors are made to feel shame over allowing themselves to be victimized. For instance, someone who may have experienced a racist incident may be told that if they are polite, work hard, and/or dress in a certain way, they will not encounter racism. When these rules are followed yet racism persists, powerlessness, hyper vigilance, and other symptoms associated with PTSD may develop or worsen (Bryant-Davis & Ocampo, 2005).”

Monnica T. Williams Ph.D.​

The psychological impact of racism must be paid attention to if there is ever going to be a true and logical reduction in the behavior. This is mainly due to a refusal to accept that certain behaviors done by nonwhites are caused by white racism. Racism causes chronic stress. Understanding this has serious implications for health outcomes in the black community. While I am not a doctor, what I have read by medical professionals explains how constant stress will create unhealthy outcomes. The continuing racism blacks face keep blacks stressed out and creates chemical imbalances within our bodies causing a wide variety of health problems.

If you study abuse, it has been shown that specific types of abuse can cause different types of behaviors ether positive or negative. I’ve done like many others and have discussed racism with whites in person to person interactions, public social gatherings, online forums, message walls, chat rooms and other social media. I have tried to inform on the impact of racism from the perspective of being black. What I discovered is that a lot of whites really don’t have an understanding about what racism can do to a person. For example, you try explaining to a white person that blacks riot in their communities because of racism and the first thing you hear is, “Come on man white racism did not cause that.”

That anecdote is an example of a person who has not experienced the first second of what racism does to a person talking about what they believe cannot happen. Yet if you talk to this same person about child abuse, sexual abuse or other types of abuses, they are more than able to talk about the behaviors that can result. But racism, well that’s just something you can easily get beyond. Meanwhile every other type of abuse is a lifelong struggle for the person who must deal with it.

Racism includes and has included these things:

Emotional/Psychological abuse
Financial abuse
Physical abuse
Sexual abuse
Verbal abuse
Spiritual abuse

This is what we will talk about. If you cannot, leave.

"We've voted for white candidates since 1964. OK? Understand?
The root cause of the problems black face is white racism and had whites been the only voters Obama would have lost by double digits both times." IM2

Blacks haven't voted for black candidates since 1964? In predominantly black districts blacks have voted overwhelmingly for black candidates! OK?
If blacks had been the only voters than Obama would have won by the largest margins in American political history both times!
Your logic is so flawed it's breathtaking!!!

Wrong. We were talking about the presidential race. Blacks voting for Obama doesn't exclude the fact that we voted for white presidential candidates from 1964 until 2008 and that we voted to nominate white candidates when blacks were running for president. Now. That's the end of that discussion.

Try discussing the thread topic or are you scared? What's up boy, white fragility got your fingertips?