So this guy from Chicago, shows up at a Florida Convenience store showing the clerk he has a gun. Clerk shows robber his gun. Yeah for 2nd amend.

[Batcat]

Exactly my point. Was that a real criminal attempt, or was it just a scary black man some redneck waved a gun at and called it a DGU? The point is there IS no Data, just a lot of bullshit estimates commissioned by the NRA and other gun groups, who of course, are going to find what they want.

And they will be about as credible as those oldy time surveys of Doctors who said smoking was healthy.



Actually, we ALREADY know how that works by disarming citizens. We can look at Japan, which has almost no gun homicides (and very few of any other kind) because private citizens haven't been allowed to own guns since the Meiji Reformation. We can look at the UK, which has a very low murder rate. We can even look at Canada, which has some private gun ownership, but it's regulated. They have very few murders.



Well, no, we'd want ones that are actually enforced. The problem with Mexico is that we have a shitload of gun shops on the Mexican border, and 250,000 US guns are smuggled in every year.



Yup, that's exactly my argument. You see, if neither the clerk or the robber are armed, you have no incident.



Actually, here's how I know they aren't terribly accurate.

Every fucking day, I read from Ammosexuals like 2AGuy and yourself all your wank fantasies about wanting to shoot bad guys. You all treat guys like Zimmerman and Rittenhouse like national heroes when they stumbled into incidents where they shot people without any good reason, but were acquitted due to white privilege.

But according to the FBI, only 200 people are killed in "Self-Defense" homicides by civilians with guns. And many of those are domestic battery, not robberies.

So if you accept the 1 million DGU number as accurate, then you'd have to believe that 999,800 of those times, an ammosexual with a gun finally gets that happy day when he can plug him a darkie, and he doesn't do it.


Nope, it's laughable.

You seem to think people like me who legally carry a concealed firearm are racist and want to kill black people.

I don’t care in the least what the skin color of a person is who attacks me with the intention of putting me in the hospital for an extended period of time or six feet under. Nor do I hope to kill my attacker.

I will use lethal force to stop such an attack and will call for medical aid if I do shoot my attacker. Hopefully my attacker will run away like so many other attackers do.

The last thing I ever hope to do is to shoot someone even if it is a totally legitimate shooting. There are often bankrupting legal expenses and lawsuits plus often the person who shoots an attacker can suffer psychological damage.

As far as the Zimmerman case it has always been my contention that he made a serious mistake when he left his vehicle to pursue Trayvon Martin. At the most I would have called the police to report a suspicious character and drove on.

The difference between nations like Japan and our nation is they don’t have more firearms than people. The criminals here are well armed already and if you seriously believe the criminals are going to voluntarily turn in their firearms, you must have paid a fortune to be brainwashed in a liberal college. You must believe that as you posted, “ Yup, that's exactly my argument. You see, if neither the clerk or the robber are armed, you have no incident.”

Take guns away from honest citizens and chances are the clerk would not have a gun but the bad guy surely would.

 

[2aguy]

So DGU's that don't involve laying a suspect out have NO EFFECT on crime..

But the proliferation of guns does.

Hmmm... think you just defeated your own argument.

The research shows, moron, that after a while criminals switch from crime where they can get shot by victims and move into crimes without having to face a human being…

In the gap, they simply try to rob unarmed people like you….

 

[Jarlaxle]

No matter how many times you repeat that debunked BULLSHIT it will never be true

He is a disciple of Goebbels: Joey favors The Big Lie. He simply keeps repeating it...eventually, it becomes accepted as fact.

you're wrong as usual

When the city of Richmond VA decided to enforce gun laws there was a statistically significant reduction in murders, gun crimes and crime in general

Joey has no interest in that. The contrary: he WANTS a high body count.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Let's get real, Crime rose to record highs under Trump.

That's a lie.

Not at all. For most our history, the courts have ruled that the second amendment is about MILITIAS, not gun ownership. Only after Heller did we have the insanity that we have now.

Even the NRA supported sensible gun laws at one point.

View attachment 715208

Yes...and then the Fudds were tossed out on their ears.

Though I'm glad to see you admit you find armed black men scary. It's nice you're FINALLY admitting it.

 

[Jarlaxle]

The Japanese and Europeans have more civil societies than we do. And they do it without locking up millions of people. In fact, none of those countries lock up more than 100,000 people. The biggest problem Japanese cops have these days is lonely elderly people shoplifting so the cops will pay attention to them.

But here's what those European countries (and Japan) do that we don't.

They make sure the mentally ill and addicted get treatment.
They don't let average citizens own guns, either banning them outright (Japan and the UK), or limiting gun ownership to highly vetted owners (Germany and Canada).
They have substantial poverty relief programs and put the emphasis on maintaining workers protections.
They invest in affordable housing.

But we let an addicted person live in a tent with no food and easy access to guns and then wonder why we have a crime problem.

You're NOT this stupid. It is not possible.

 

[JoeB131]

Three idiots for the price of one.

Says the racist fuck who calls minoroties "Darkies"

I'm not the one who put a Racist Game Show Host in the White House because he promised to crack down on people of color... that would be your side.

Nobody here, other than you, has said any such thing.

And poverty is not a race, so even if anyone did say that, it wouldn't be racist.

Actually, you say it all the time about "those people". You see some black kids stealing a bag of chips, and you scream about how they all need to be murdered for it. Oh, yeah, and you belong to a racist cult that calls dark skin a curse from God and didn't admit black people as members until 1978.

You don't understand the terms you use. To claim "the Japanese and Europeans have more civil societies than we do", is rather naive and just an attempt to evade from the results of leftism.

No, it's a statement of fact that can be backed up with facts and figures. They have less murder, less crime, less poverty, less addiction. The Japanese government has to publish pamphlets on how not to get murdered in America because the Japanese have no concept of crime like we have.

It's understandable that you despise Constitutional freedoms and protections afforded by the Founding documents. That's a pattern of behavior typical among the far left. The left has this need to coddle criminals and make victims of crimes endorsed by leftist policies their overriding concern. The result has been crime waves and the brutalization of the citizenry.

Really? It seems to me that the Founding Slave Rapists only wrote one amendment about "arms", but wrote FIVE about protecting the rights of people accused of crimes. So it seems if anyone was coddling criminals, it was your beloved Founders.

4th Amendment - Protection against unlawful searches and seizures
5th Amendment - Protection against self-incrimination
6th Amendment - Right to Speedy Trial and due process
7th Amendment - Right to an unbiased Jury.
8th Amendment - Protection from Cruel and unusual punishment

Of course, this being America, there's the unwritten caveat of "Just for White People".

So here we are again, with the leftist politburo mouthpiece whining about homelessness, the drug addicted living on the streets when the most blatant examples of that occur in leftist paradises.

That's because rich white people in the suburbs dump their addicts into rehab, and when they get fed up with them, dump them in the cities.

Oh, but wait, we do have homelessness in the suburbs.

Homeless in the Suburbs - Parenting

This is the new economic reality: families just like yours sleeping on couches and in shelters. A Parenting special report. Eleven-year-old Devin Bodiford’s eyes blink open in the back room of a suburban Denver church. The clock reads 5 a.m. when his mother whispers that it’s time to get up. His...

www.parenting.com

 

[JoeB131]

Yes...and then the Fudds were tossed out on their ears.

Though I'm glad to see you admit you find armed black men scary. It's nice you're FINALLY admitting it.

Ditchweed, are you ever capable of following a conversation?

 

[JoeB131]

You seem to think people like me who legally carry a concealed firearm are racist and want to kill black people.

Um, yup, pretty much. 11 years of reading murder wank fantasies here from ammosexuals have convinced me of that. The way you guys cheered for Zimmerman and Rittenhouse for living your dream.

As far as the Zimmerman case it has always been my contention that he made a serious mistake when he left his vehicle to pursue Trayvon Martin. At the most I would have called the police to report a suspicious character and drove on.

But he went out and murdered an unarmed kid buying candy, and you guys made him into a national hero.

The difference between nations like Japan and our nation is they don’t have more firearms than people. The criminals here are well armed already and if you seriously believe the criminals are going to voluntarily turn in their firearms, you must have paid a fortune to be brainwashed in a liberal college. You must believe that as you posted, “ Yup, that's exactly my argument. You see, if neither the clerk or the robber are armed, you have no incident.”

No, I don't expect the criminals to voluntarily turn in their firearms.
I expect their firearms to be confiscated and then they can't get new ones because the gun store that sells them one can be sued out of existence.

The Gun Industry has been flooding our streets with guns because they WANT people like you to be scared and want a gun, too.

 

[JoeB131]

The research shows, moron, that after a while criminals switch from crime where they can get shot by victims and move into crimes without having to face a human being…

In the gap, they simply try to rob unarmed people like you….

Research shows DGU's rarely happen, because most home invaders wait until no one is home to break in. Breaking in when someone is home has a higher penalty and more risk, gun or not.

Again,... only 200 justified homicides with guns every year. DGU's are RARE.

How Often Are Guns Used for Self-Defense?

Fact-checking the 'good guys with guns' maxim.

www.thetrace.org

Ignoring quacks like Kleck and Lott, the facts are these.

The NCVS identifies far fewer instances of defensive gun use. According to the most recent firearms violence report, published in April, 2 percent of victims of nonfatal violent crime — that includes rape, sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated assault — and 1 percent of property crime victims use guns in self-defense. According to the survey, firearms were used defensively in 166,900 nonfatal violent crimes between 2014 and 2018, which works out to an average of 33,380 per year. Over the same period, defensive gun use was reported in 183,300 property crimes, or an average of 36,660 per year.

Taken together, that’s 70,040 instances of defensive gun use per year.

 

[Hollie]

Three idiots for the price of one.



I'm not the one who put a Racist Game Show Host in the White House because he promised to crack down on people of color... that would be your side.



Actually, you say it all the time about "those people". You see some black kids stealing a bag of chips, and you scream about how they all need to be murdered for it. Oh, yeah, and you belong to a racist cult that calls dark skin a curse from God and didn't admit black people as members until 1978.



No, it's a statement of fact that can be backed up with facts and figures. They have less murder, less crime, less poverty, less addiction. The Japanese government has to publish pamphlets on how not to get murdered in America because the Japanese have no concept of crime like we have.




Really? It seems to me that the Founding Slave Rapists only wrote one amendment about "arms", but wrote FIVE about protecting the rights of people accused of crimes. So it seems if anyone was coddling criminals, it was your beloved Founders.

4th Amendment - Protection against unlawful searches and seizures
5th Amendment - Protection against self-incrimination
6th Amendment - Right to Speedy Trial and due process
7th Amendment - Right to an unbiased Jury.
8th Amendment - Protection from Cruel and unusual punishment

Of course, this being America, there's the unwritten caveat of "Just for White People".



That's because rich white people in the suburbs dump their addicts into rehab, and when they get fed up with them, dump them in the cities.

Oh, but wait, we do have homelessness in the suburbs.

Homeless in the Suburbs - Parenting

This is the new economic reality: families just like yours sleeping on couches and in shelters. A Parenting special report. Eleven-year-old Devin Bodiford’s eyes blink open in the back room of a suburban Denver church. The clock reads 5 a.m. when his mother whispers that it’s time to get up. His...

www.parenting.com

Well, yes. That pesky Constitution is a real impediment to the socialist / authoritarian desires of the left. The Party of Slavery, the Democrat Party, has become even more dangerous since their precious rights to oppress and intimidate have been stripped away.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I'm not the one who put a Racist Game Show Host in the White House because he promised to crack down on people of color... that would be your side.

Actually, you say it all the time about "those people". You see some black kids stealing a bag of chips, and you scream about how they all need to be murdered for it. Oh, yeah, and you belong to a racist cult that calls dark skin a curse from God and didn't admit black people as members until 1978.

That's just your own insane delusions speaking; your own racism projected at others.

It is you who keeps equating race to criminality, and not anyone else whom you persist in falsely accusing of “racism”. It is you who, on the basis of your own racism, keeps insisting that any efforts to protect human beings from the predations of subhuman criminal shit are acting out of “racism”.

 

[Blues Man]

Three idiots for the price of one.



I'm not the one who put a Racist Game Show Host in the White House because he promised to crack down on people of color... that would be your side.



Actually, you say it all the time about "those people". You see some black kids stealing a bag of chips, and you scream about how they all need to be murdered for it. Oh, yeah, and you belong to a racist cult that calls dark skin a curse from God and didn't admit black people as members until 1978.



No, it's a statement of fact that can be backed up with facts and figures. They have less murder, less crime, less poverty, less addiction. The Japanese government has to publish pamphlets on how not to get murdered in America because the Japanese have no concept of crime like we have.




Really? It seems to me that the Founding Slave Rapists only wrote one amendment about "arms", but wrote FIVE about protecting the rights of people accused of crimes. So it seems if anyone was coddling criminals, it was your beloved Founders.

4th Amendment - Protection against unlawful searches and seizures
5th Amendment - Protection against self-incrimination
6th Amendment - Right to Speedy Trial and due process
7th Amendment - Right to an unbiased Jury.
8th Amendment - Protection from Cruel and unusual punishment

Of course, this being America, there's the unwritten caveat of "Just for White People".



That's because rich white people in the suburbs dump their addicts into rehab, and when they get fed up with them, dump them in the cities.

Oh, but wait, we do have homelessness in the suburbs.

Homeless in the Suburbs - Parenting

This is the new economic reality: families just like yours sleeping on couches and in shelters. A Parenting special report. Eleven-year-old Devin Bodiford’s eyes blink open in the back room of a suburban Denver church. The clock reads 5 a.m. when his mother whispers that it’s time to get up. His...

www.parenting.com

You have no clue who I voted for or didn't vote for just add it to the long list of things you have no clue about.

 

[Woodznutz]

Actually, probably pretty good. They had to report the call and the incident.

But let's look at it another way. If you have an encounter between a gun owner and a crook where the crook saw a gun and moved on, did that really "prevent" a crime? Did the Criminal Find Jesus that day and walked the straight an narrow. Nope. He just moved on to an easier target, like a home he was sure no one was home at. So no crimes are actually prevented if you haven't either killed or wounded the bad guy.

It may not have prevented "a" crime, but it did prevent "that" crime.

 

[Woodznutz]

Let's get real, Crime rose to record highs under Trump.

You guys keep trying to pretend 2020 didn't happen.



Here's the thing... I actually had a discussion with a Police Officer on Saturday, who admitted most of what is being said about the SAFE-T Act is bullshit.

The part of the law states that if a prosecutor can't prove a defendant is an immediate danger or a flight risk, then you have to give him release until his trial. What we had before was the criminalization of poverty... Poor people of color staying in jail for the same petty offenses that white people can get bail for. And it was ridiculous.



Not at all. For most our history, the courts have ruled that the second amendment is about MILITIAS, not gun ownership. Only after Heller did we have the insanity that we have now.

Even the NRA supported sensible gun laws at one point.

View attachment 715208

The militia is made up of an armed citizenry, the arms being kept 'at the ready' in the possession of the citizens. In the regular military, or the National Guard, the weapons are locked up in an armory.

 

[hadit]

You can spooge that all day, but the fact is, guns in the home are more likely to kill someone in the household.

You keep saying that, but then the research doesn't really support it, does it? Here's one to consider, a dog in the home is more likely to bite or kill a member of the household than it is to bite or kill an intruder. Bad dog.

The problem is you keep trying to pretend we shouldn't count the suicides.

You know what's funny? I live in an area where I KNOW people are carrying, and I've never even seen one on someone out in public, much less been harmed by one. Of course, there is that gang of feral guns that hang out on the street corner, smoking cigarettes, drinking beer and whistling at girls, but no one really worries about them.

 

[hadit]

Actually, probably pretty good. They had to report the call and the incident.

But let's look at it another way. If you have an encounter between a gun owner and a crook where the crook saw a gun and moved on, did that really "prevent" a crime? Did the Criminal Find Jesus that day and walked the straight an narrow. Nope. He just moved on to an easier target, like a home he was sure no one was home at. So no crimes are actually prevented if you haven't either killed or wounded the bad guy.

You just made the opposing case. A criminal wants an easy target. That's why gun free zones are magnets for them. They don't walk into police stations and start shooting, they don't walk into a bar in Texas and start shooting, they don't walk into an army base and start shooting. No, they go into a school and start shooting, they go into a shopping mall and start shooting. They wait until houses are empty before breaking in. Guns do deter criminals, at least the smarter ones.

Tell us, what happened when you put that sign up in your front yard saying your house is a gun free zone? Oh, you didn't put up such a sign? Why not?

 

[hadit]

Let's get real, Crime rose to record highs under Trump.

You guys keep trying to pretend 2020 didn't happen.

We're well aware of the summer of riots. Many cities burned, people were injured and killed, and insurrectionist group took over several city blocks and declared themselves free of US dominion. We remember. You were just off by a year.

 

[Woodznutz]

Research shows DGU's rarely happen, because most home invaders wait until no one is home to break in. Breaking in when someone is home has a higher penalty and more risk, gun or not.

Again,... only 200 justified homicides with guns every year. DGU's are RARE.

How Often Are Guns Used for Self-Defense?

Fact-checking the 'good guys with guns' maxim.

www.thetrace.org

Ignoring quacks like Kleck and Lott, the facts are these.

The NCVS identifies far fewer instances of defensive gun use. According to the most recent firearms violence report, published in April, 2 percent of victims of nonfatal violent crime — that includes rape, sexual assault, robbery, and aggravated assault — and 1 percent of property crime victims use guns in self-defense. According to the survey, firearms were used defensively in 166,900 nonfatal violent crimes between 2014 and 2018, which works out to an average of 33,380 per year. Over the same period, defensive gun use was reported in 183,300 property crimes, or an average of 36,660 per year.

Taken together, that’s 70,040 instances of defensive gun use per year.

View attachment 716293

That just shows that more people should own guns for self-defense.

 

[Woodznutz]

Three idiots for the price of one.



I'm not the one who put a Racist Game Show Host in the White House because he promised to crack down on people of color... that would be your side.



Actually, you say it all the time about "those people". You see some black kids stealing a bag of chips, and you scream about how they all need to be murdered for it. Oh, yeah, and you belong to a racist cult that calls dark skin a curse from God and didn't admit black people as members until 1978.



No, it's a statement of fact that can be backed up with facts and figures. They have less murder, less crime, less poverty, less addiction. The Japanese government has to publish pamphlets on how not to get murdered in America because the Japanese have no concept of crime like we have.




Really? It seems to me that the Founding Slave Rapists only wrote one amendment about "arms", but wrote FIVE about protecting the rights of people accused of crimes. So it seems if anyone was coddling criminals, it was your beloved Founders.

4th Amendment - Protection against unlawful searches and seizures
5th Amendment - Protection against self-incrimination
6th Amendment - Right to Speedy Trial and due process
7th Amendment - Right to an unbiased Jury.
8th Amendment - Protection from Cruel and unusual punishment

Of course, this being America, there's the unwritten caveat of "Just for White People".



That's because rich white people in the suburbs dump their addicts into rehab, and when they get fed up with them, dump them in the cities.

Oh, but wait, we do have homelessness in the suburbs.

Homeless in the Suburbs - Parenting

This is the new economic reality: families just like yours sleeping on couches and in shelters. A Parenting special report. Eleven-year-old Devin Bodiford’s eyes blink open in the back room of a suburban Denver church. The clock reads 5 a.m. when his mother whispers that it’s time to get up. His...

www.parenting.com

These problems are more associated with human nature than with politics. People in America just aren't prepared for life in the real world.

 

[Batcat]

Um, yup, pretty much. 11 years of reading murder wank fantasies here from ammosexuals have convinced me of that. The way you guys cheered for Zimmerman and Rittenhouse for living your dream.



But he went out and murdered an unarmed kid buying candy, and you guys made him into a national hero.



No, I don't expect the criminals to voluntarily turn in their firearms.
I expect their firearms to be confiscated and then they can't get new ones because the gun store that sells them one can be sued out of existence.

The Gun Industry has been flooding our streets with guns because they WANT people like you to be scared and want a gun, too.

My opinion often differs from other conservatives. As I said Zimmerman should have stayed in his vehicle. He was not a cop. Martin posed no threat to Zimmerman in his vehicle.

There currently are more firearms in our nation than people. People are smart enough to cache their weapons once confiscation begins. People have been burying firearms and ammo in PVC pipes ever since Handgun Control Inc. appeared on the scene. I remember reading instructions on how to do so back in the 1970s. You can even buy gun burial tubes on the internet today. Just do a Google search.

So you expect firearms will be confiscated from criminals. Please explain why that is not happening today.

I have talked to a number of police who have told me they have ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in confiscating firearms from honest citizens. It’s hard enough to take them away from violent criminals.

Perhaps you will volunteer to join the gun confiscation squads and go house to house taking away firearms.