So the rightwing is willing to take pay & benefits cuts?

[shintao]

The Cons are hot to get rid of Unions, the last bastion between worker protection from greedy, unpatriotic, uncaring asshole Corporations. And anyone with a brain knows once the Unions are gone to maintain the living & nminimum wage standard in America, Corporations seeking profits are going to cut their wages and benefits in the most uncaring axing weilding way imaginable. So this a given, you will take what they give you, or watch a Mexican take your job.

So I just want to hear the cons explain how they want their own wages & benefits cut for profits, when it is a corporate hiring market with millions waiting to take their jobs. Go on and explain to us how you think you won't suffer major wage & benefit cuts, or get the boot out your employers door.

Don't even tell me free market BS, it doesn't work in a global community.

been there, done that; I got laid off from a private sector job I had for 15 years in April 09.

Thats how the cookie crumbles.

anything else?

Do you think NO regulations or NO unions had anything to do with losing your last job?

 

[shintao]

The Cons are hot to get rid of Unions, the last bastion between worker protection from greedy, unpatriotic, uncaring asshole Corporations. And anyone with a brain knows once the Unions are gone to maintain the living & nminimum wage standard in America, Corporations seeking profits are going to cut their wages and benefits in the most uncaring axing weilding way imaginable. So this a given, you will take what they give you, or watch a Mexican take your job.

So I just want to hear the cons explain how they want their own wages & benefits cut for profits, when it is a corporate hiring market with millions waiting to take their jobs. Go on and explain to us how you think you won't suffer major wage & benefit cuts, or get the boot out your employers door.

Don't even tell me free market BS, it doesn't work in a global community.

I hate to resort to profanity but it seems the only language lefties speak these days is in four letter words. The rightwing is doing what the fu-k you lefties are screaming for them to do. They are making the tough decisions that democrats ran away from for almost a hundred years. That's why we are in this mess. It's ironic that the left wing faked hysteria when the Tea Party was engaged in peaceful 1st amendment guaranteed free speech but when the rabble in Wisconsin abandon the duties that taxpayer's pay them for and threaten the governor it's fine with the left as long as the socialist principles are followed.

You are off topic.

 

[shintao]

Do YOU see tent cities along the River/ Food Lines bread lines as far as the eye can see...are you painting a picture as the 1930's?

I don't see it *YET* but if Obama and the Statists continue...that's WHAT we will see...I think you need to get a grip or your fantasy will be reality in short order...and the UNIONS and their untward demands that force bankruptcy of the many States will come to fruition IF they don't start to buckle down, SHED their entitlement mentality on a SOUR ECONOMY and on the BACKS of the private sector they DEMAND FROM...

NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE is entitled to a living on the backs of others...

Got it ACE?

Your off topic, deuce. Read the OP again.

 

[JakeStarkey]

One of my secretaries told me yesterday that the Wisconsin demonstrations remind her of the sixties. Some here believe the government workers in WI will shut down government before the permit the Governor to legislate away their opportunities to collectively bargain. I suspect this what the Pubs are going to try in the house. Let's see who the citizens of the US choose: populism or Tea Party'ism/Corporatism.

This is interesting!

 

[shintao]

Then why do we need them in the government jobs?

How is it that unions protect workers from greedy bosses, yet at the same time you defend and empower their bosses?

Do you understand why a Union member makes more than the private sector worker? It is because of collective bargaining. Unity is power, individuality is weakness. That is your answer.

Unions do not empower private sector bosses, they meet them head to toe and negotiate worker solutions.

Individuality is weakness?......Maybe for you.

Thats why we send troops to war, and not just you. In the monetary system one dollar buys nothing. Many dollars buy everything. Unity is power, individuality is weak. Someone should should have taught you that.

Funny how i've never held a union job in my life, and have made far more than any union worker in this country could ever hope too. I didn't need a union coddling and protecting me. I did it myself.

Why is it funny? Gates did it himself. Big deal. It doesn't change the fact that Unions created the standard of living you were able to work above, or the work conditions & safety rules, .... that is why you are scab. And when the unions are gone, so will the high paying jobs be gone, along with benefits and work regulations. You will be lucky if you have no children to live in those times coming.

Ya' see, that's the biggest problem facing this country. People want to be coddled. They don't want to pay their share. What ever they can get for nothing at all costs. And if it means their union will aid in bankrupting a state by demanding unstustainable gotten gains, so be it. It's friggin' ridiculous.

This is off topic.

 

[bucs90]

One of my secretaries told me yesterday that the Wisconsin demonstrations remind her of the sixties. Some here believe the government workers in WI will shut down government before the permit the Governor to legislate away their opportunities to collectively bargain. I suspect this what the Pubs are going to try in the house. Let's see who the citizens of the US choose: populism or Tea Party'ism/Corporatism.

This is interesting!

Considering non-union workers outnumber union workers 90%-10%.....I think they don't want a popular vote. Thuggery and intimidation is what they rely on.

 

[JakeStarkey]

One of my secretaries told me yesterday that the Wisconsin demonstrations remind her of the sixties. Some here believe the government workers in WI will shut down government before the permit the Governor to legislate away their opportunities to collectively bargain. I suspect this what the Pubs are going to try in the house. Let's see who the citizens of the US choose: populism or Tea Party'ism/Corporatism.

This is interesting!

Considering non-union workers outnumber union workers 90%-10%.....I think they don't want a popular vote. Thuggery and intimidation is what they rely on.

The supporters of the Wisconsin workers outnumber the Tea Party corporatists three to one. Look it up. You really should not spout about things you don't know or understand.

 

[shintao]

good gawd, talk about FEAR MONGERING.

Well give us the good side of having your wages & benefits cut down to that of an Asian.

Asian people come here so that they will have unalienable rights acknowledged and protected and can aspire to whatever their work ethic, abilities, and imagination can achieve for them. And most are not union employees. And because of their work ethic, a poor Asian is usually pretty hard to find.

You're comparing basketballs to marbles here. If cities or states become so hopelessly bankrupt that they cannot keep the doors of public services open, THEN your beloved union employees might get busted down to Asian labor because there will be no money to pay them at all. They can sue but you can't get blood or even unlimited turnip juice out of a turnip forever. There is a finite supply and that is all there is.

We're not asking union employees to take a vow of poverty. They are being asked to see the handwriting on the wall, understand that they cannot continue to rake in salaries and benefits when there is no money to pay them, and thus they need to be willing to negotiate salaries and benefits that their employer is able to pay without breaking the bank.

It would be wonderful if we all could just demand what we think we need or deserve or want. But the rest of us have to live and work with economic realities our whole lives.

Union workers should be no different.

Hmm, one of the first times you have responded to one of my posts, and you are off topic.

America is global & competes with Asia workers. Workers who survive on $5. or so a week. The only thing keeping America from being another Asia is the Unions who give a standard of living wages. When the Unions are gone, the standard is gone. And this country's workers is going in a rat hole. A coporation doesn't care if you starve, doesn't care what you want to be paid, or care about your health, or how many hours you have to work, or the safety conditions, or if you have a retirement package. They care about profit and doing what it takes to exploit the worker. When the unions and regulations are gone, the American worker will be putty in the corporate hands, and you will accept whatever they offer you, much like the lower paid private sector today.

By doing away with the unions your economic reality is looking you in the face from Asia.

 

[shintao]

good gawd, talk about FEAR MONGERING.

Well give us the good side of having your wages & benefits cut down to that of an Asian.

Why an Asian? Why not a BLACK? Native American, Irish, Italian? French,German, Slovak, Indoinesian...Philipino, Spanaird, Mexican, should I continue?

SEE where this is leading? *SHAME UPON YOU* and your house.

 

[syrenn]

Do YOU see tent cities along the River/ Food Lines bread lines as far as the eye can see...are you painting a picture as the 1930's?

I don't see it *YET* but if Obama and the Statists continue...that's WHAT we will see...I think you need to get a grip or your fantasy will be reality in short order...and the UNIONS and their untward demands that force bankruptcy of the many States will come to fruition IF they don't start to buckle down, SHED their entitlement mentality on a SOUR ECONOMY and on the BACKS of the private sector they DEMAND FROM...

NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE is entitled to a living on the backs of others...

Got it ACE?

Unions make up 7.5% of all private sector jobs. Please explain their incredibly HUGE impact. Or not.

Got it ACE?

And what is the percentage of government jobs are union? About 92.5%?

 

[shintao]

good gawd, talk about FEAR MONGERING.

Well give us the good side of having your wages & benefits cut down to that of an Asian.

A POX upon YOU and your HOUSE asshole.

Run out of things to say, or just anxious to get down to the kids at the Merry-go-round at the park, XXXXX?

 

[Foxfyre]

Well give us the good side of having your wages & benefits cut down to that of an Asian.

Asian people come here so that they will have unalienable rights acknowledged and protected and can aspire to whatever their work ethic, abilities, and imagination can achieve for them. And most are not union employees. And because of their work ethic, a poor Asian is usually pretty hard to find.

You're comparing basketballs to marbles here. If cities or states become so hopelessly bankrupt that they cannot keep the doors of public services open, THEN your beloved union employees might get busted down to Asian labor because there will be no money to pay them at all. They can sue but you can't get blood or even unlimited turnip juice out of a turnip forever. There is a finite supply and that is all there is.

We're not asking union employees to take a vow of poverty. They are being asked to see the handwriting on the wall, understand that they cannot continue to rake in salaries and benefits when there is no money to pay them, and thus they need to be willing to negotiate salaries and benefits that their employer is able to pay without breaking the bank.

It would be wonderful if we all could just demand what we think we need or deserve or want. But the rest of us have to live and work with economic realities our whole lives.

Union workers should be no different.

Hmm, one of the first times you have responded to one of my posts, and you are off topic.

America is global & competes with Asia workers. Workers who survive on $5. or so a week. The only thing keeping America from being another Asia is the Unions who give a standard of living wages. When the Unions are gone, the standard is gone. And this country's workers is going in a rat hole. A coporation doesn't care if you starve, doesn't care what you want to be paid, or care about your health, or how many hours you have to work, or the safety conditions, or if you have a retirement package. They care about profit and doing what it takes to exploit the worker. When the unions and regulations are gone, the American worker will be putty in the corporate hands, and you will accept whatever they offer you, much like the lower paid private sector today.

By doing away with the unions your economic reality is looking you in the face from Asia.

I'm off topic??????? You're the one who brought in Asian wages. I only responded to that.

The fact is most Asians are NOT union, have never been union, and have no interest in being unionized. Yet after they've enjoyed the benefits of freedom here in the USA for awhile, you'll be hard put to find an Asian earning below the poverty line. How can they do that without union protection do you think?

Unions were necessary when unions were first organized and those companies that got a union generally deserved them. Then the union ensured that the company could not trap employees into systems that made them essentially indentured servants. Bad bosses did mistreat their employees.

But as things sometimes go and time went on, unions forgot that they were to help their members get an honest deal and moved into getting their employees GREAT deals to keep those members in the fold. Give them more money than they can make anywhere else and they'll keep forking over the dues that makes the union bosses rich. And the rich union bosses then grease the palms of political advocates to ensure that nobody rocks the union boat.

And meanwhile both governments and industry is trying to organize now to keep from being abused and mistreated by the unions.

There is no place on Earth where human rights are respected and free markets and capitalism exists that anybody has to work for what you call 'Asian wages'. To give the unions credit for that is absurd.

 

[bucs90]

One of my secretaries told me yesterday that the Wisconsin demonstrations remind her of the sixties. Some here believe the government workers in WI will shut down government before the permit the Governor to legislate away their opportunities to collectively bargain. I suspect this what the Pubs are going to try in the house. Let's see who the citizens of the US choose: populism or Tea Party'ism/Corporatism.

This is interesting!

Considering non-union workers outnumber union workers 90%-10%.....I think they don't want a popular vote. Thuggery and intimidation is what they rely on.

The supporters of the Wisconsin workers outnumber the Tea Party corporatists three to one. Look it up. You really should not spout about things you don't know or understand.

Maybe you should READ first.

I said non-union workers in America outnumber union workers by 9-1. Thats all I said.

But I seriously doubt union supporters outnumber Tea Party supporters.

Because after all, A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR WON AND THE RIGHT WING DOMINATED LAST NOVEMBER.

So, looks like, according to the elections, I'm right

 

[bucs90]

And the only places where people work for "Asian wages" are in communist, socialist, left wing tyranny states, like North Korea, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, China.

Where capitalism has existed, wages are high.

In fact....over the last 50 years union membership in the US has gone from 39% to 11%. Meanwhile, in the same time, our GDP and wealth have soared.

Hmmm. So union membership plummets. And GDP soars. Interesting correlation.

 

[shintao]

I was listening to a news panel this morning early and it was stated, with no dissent or correction from anybody else, that the unions have produced $3 trillion--that TRILLION with a "T"--in unfunded liabilities due to their collective bargaining.

I am reminded of a friend of ours who once ran a medium sized manufacturing business in a neighboring state. During an economic downturn he sought to renegotiate the contracts with his union employees rather than be forced to lay a lot of people off. They refused. A lot of workers got laid off.

When the downturn continued, he sought to renegotiate again to keep the business afloat. He opened the books to the union leaders showing them the red ink and cash flow hemorrhage that was draining his ability to even bid on new contracts. Again they refused.

He closed his business and moved to an adjacent right-to-work state and started up again. He would have preferred to stay put. But the unions greed not only forced him to move but cost all the union workers their very lucrative livelihoods.

For those of us who have been working in the private sector for any time, there have been numerous times that many of us have worked overtime, worked shorter hours, not gotten pay raises, had benefits reduced due to the ebb and flow of the fortunes of our employers. Those of us who have run businesses hire and lay off people based on the financial health and stability of the business.

When unions are unwilling to do that in the public sector, and the alternative is simply to bleed the economy dry in higher taxes or dig a hole of economic liability from which there is no possible recovery, then the union has to be busted and a new system put into place.

The 'government is god and the people ought to be submissive' crowd wring their hands and accuse the 'right' of hating labor and collective bargaining. No compromise is even considered. The rest of us know that you can't keep bleeding red ink forever until the whole system collapses.

I say if the unions won't be sensible, bust them.

The global economy fail America huh? When you make a contract in good faith and then cannot meet your obligations, your responsibilitys, what do you do? If your word means nothing you walk away from it & become a bad credit risk. You sell your house and pay off the debt and shut down. Don't blame the union for your own poor business practices and not foreseeing the future.

 

[Foxfyre]

I was listening to a news panel this morning early and it was stated, with no dissent or correction from anybody else, that the unions have produced $3 trillion--that TRILLION with a "T"--in unfunded liabilities due to their collective bargaining.

I am reminded of a friend of ours who once ran a medium sized manufacturing business in a neighboring state. During an economic downturn he sought to renegotiate the contracts with his union employees rather than be forced to lay a lot of people off. They refused. A lot of workers got laid off.

When the downturn continued, he sought to renegotiate again to keep the business afloat. He opened the books to the union leaders showing them the red ink and cash flow hemorrhage that was draining his ability to even bid on new contracts. Again they refused.

He closed his business and moved to an adjacent right-to-work state and started up again. He would have preferred to stay put. But the unions greed not only forced him to move but cost all the union workers their very lucrative livelihoods.

For those of us who have been working in the private sector for any time, there have been numerous times that many of us have worked overtime, worked shorter hours, not gotten pay raises, had benefits reduced due to the ebb and flow of the fortunes of our employers. Those of us who have run businesses hire and lay off people based on the financial health and stability of the business.

When unions are unwilling to do that in the public sector, and the alternative is simply to bleed the economy dry in higher taxes or dig a hole of economic liability from which there is no possible recovery, then the union has to be busted and a new system put into place.

The 'government is god and the people ought to be submissive' crowd wring their hands and accuse the 'right' of hating labor and collective bargaining. No compromise is even considered. The rest of us know that you can't keep bleeding red ink forever until the whole system collapses.

I say if the unions won't be sensible, bust them.

The global economy fail America huh? When you make a contract in good faith and then cannot meet your obligations, your responsibilitys, what do you do? If your word means nothing you walk away from it & become a bad credit risk. You sell your house and pay off the debt and shut down. Don't blame the union for your own poor business practices and not foreseeing the future.

Okay, I give up. You are convinced that unions are not the problem. The fact that the states have $3 trillion in obligations in union contracts without any ability to pay them and have offered the unions opportunity to renegotiate seems to not register with you. So yeah. When the unions won't negotiate but bleed you dry and there's nothing left you close up shop and walk away.

And welcome to poor Asia.

Unless you respond to the points others are making, I will assume that your opinion that its everybody's fault but the unions hasn't changed. You haven't and I don't believe you can support your opinion, but I'll leave you to it.

 

[shintao]

Asian people come here so that they will have unalienable rights acknowledged and protected and can aspire to whatever their work ethic, abilities, and imagination can achieve for them. And most are not union employees. And because of their work ethic, a poor Asian is usually pretty hard to find.

You're comparing basketballs to marbles here. If cities or states become so hopelessly bankrupt that they cannot keep the doors of public services open, THEN your beloved union employees might get busted down to Asian labor because there will be no money to pay them at all. They can sue but you can't get blood or even unlimited turnip juice out of a turnip forever. There is a finite supply and that is all there is.

We're not asking union employees to take a vow of poverty. They are being asked to see the handwriting on the wall, understand that they cannot continue to rake in salaries and benefits when there is no money to pay them, and thus they need to be willing to negotiate salaries and benefits that their employer is able to pay without breaking the bank.

It would be wonderful if we all could just demand what we think we need or deserve or want. But the rest of us have to live and work with economic realities our whole lives.

Union workers should be no different.

Hmm, one of the first times you have responded to one of my posts, and you are off topic.

America is global & competes with Asia workers. Workers who survive on $5. or so a week. The only thing keeping America from being another Asia is the Unions who give a standard of living wages. When the Unions are gone, the standard is gone. And this country's workers is going in a rat hole. A coporation doesn't care if you starve, doesn't care what you want to be paid, or care about your health, or how many hours you have to work, or the safety conditions, or if you have a retirement package. They care about profit and doing what it takes to exploit the worker. When the unions and regulations are gone, the American worker will be putty in the corporate hands, and you will accept whatever they offer you, much like the lower paid private sector today.

By doing away with the unions your economic reality is looking you in the face from Asia.

I'm off topic??????? You're the one who brought in Asian wages. I only responded to that.

The fact is most Asians are NOT union, have never been union, and have no interest in being unionized. Yet after they've enjoyed the benefits of freedom here in the USA for awhile, you'll be hard put to find an Asian earning below the poverty line. How can they do that without union protection do you think?

Toots, I am not talking about American Asians. I am talking about the work conditions and workers in Asia over the pond, ok??

Unions were necessary when unions were first organized and those companies that got a union generally deserved them. Then the union ensured that the company could not trap employees into systems that made them essentially indentured servants. Bad bosses did mistreat their employees.

But as things sometimes go and time went on, unions forgot that they were to help their members get an honest deal and moved into getting their employees GREAT deals to keep those members in the fold. Give them more money than they can make anywhere else and they'll keep forking over the dues that makes the union bosses rich. And the rich union bosses then grease the palms of political advocates to ensure that nobody rocks the union boat.

And meanwhile both governments and industry is trying to organize now to keep from being abused and mistreated by the unions.

There is no place on Earth where human rights are respected and free markets and capitalism exists that anybody has to work for what you call 'Asian wages'. To give the unions credit for that is absurd.

......................................

 

[shintao]

I was listening to a news panel this morning early and it was stated, with no dissent or correction from anybody else, that the unions have produced $3 trillion--that TRILLION with a "T"--in unfunded liabilities due to their collective bargaining.

I am reminded of a friend of ours who once ran a medium sized manufacturing business in a neighboring state. During an economic downturn he sought to renegotiate the contracts with his union employees rather than be forced to lay a lot of people off. They refused. A lot of workers got laid off.

When the downturn continued, he sought to renegotiate again to keep the business afloat. He opened the books to the union leaders showing them the red ink and cash flow hemorrhage that was draining his ability to even bid on new contracts. Again they refused.

He closed his business and moved to an adjacent right-to-work state and started up again. He would have preferred to stay put. But the unions greed not only forced him to move but cost all the union workers their very lucrative livelihoods.

For those of us who have been working in the private sector for any time, there have been numerous times that many of us have worked overtime, worked shorter hours, not gotten pay raises, had benefits reduced due to the ebb and flow of the fortunes of our employers. Those of us who have run businesses hire and lay off people based on the financial health and stability of the business.

When unions are unwilling to do that in the public sector, and the alternative is simply to bleed the economy dry in higher taxes or dig a hole of economic liability from which there is no possible recovery, then the union has to be busted and a new system put into place.

The 'government is god and the people ought to be submissive' crowd wring their hands and accuse the 'right' of hating labor and collective bargaining. No compromise is even considered. The rest of us know that you can't keep bleeding red ink forever until the whole system collapses.

I say if the unions won't be sensible, bust them.

The global economy fail America huh? When you make a contract in good faith and then cannot meet your obligations, your responsibilitys, what do you do? If your word means nothing you walk away from it & become a bad credit risk. You sell your house and pay off the debt and shut down. Don't blame the union for your own poor business practices and not foreseeing the future.

Okay, I give up. You are convinced that unions are not the problem. The fact that the states have $3 trillion in obligations in union contracts without any ability to pay them and have offered the unions opportunity to renegotiate seems to not register with you. So yeah. When the unions won't negotiate but bleed you dry and there's nothing left you close up shop and walk away.

And welcome to poor Asia.

Unless you respond to the points others are making, I will assume that you opinion that its everybody but the unions' fault hasn't changed. You haven't and I don't believe you can support your opinion, but I'll leave you to it.

I don't respond because they are off topic to the OP. Only one person in 8 pages has been on topic of the OP.

Syrenn, page 3, post #36

"If you want the job you have two choices.

Work for what is offered or get fired. Take your choice."

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The Cons are hot to get rid of Unions, the last bastion between worker protection from greedy, unpatriotic, uncaring asshole Corporations.

Then why do we need them in the government jobs?

How is it that unions protect workers from greedy bosses, yet at the same time you defend and empower their bosses?

This is Shintao's way of admitting that he thinks the government is a greedy, unpatriotic, uncaring asshole corporation.

 

[Big Fitz]

The global economy fail America huh? When you make a contract in good faith and then cannot meet your obligations, your responsibilitys, what do you do? If your word means nothing you walk away from it & become a bad credit risk. You sell your house and pay off the debt and shut down. Don't blame the union for your own poor business practices and not foreseeing the future.

Okay, I give up. You are convinced that unions are not the problem. The fact that the states have $3 trillion in obligations in union contracts without any ability to pay them and have offered the unions opportunity to renegotiate seems to not register with you. So yeah. When the unions won't negotiate but bleed you dry and there's nothing left you close up shop and walk away.

And welcome to poor Asia.

Unless you respond to the points others are making, I will assume that you opinion that its everybody but the unions' fault hasn't changed. You haven't and I don't believe you can support your opinion, but I'll leave you to it.

I don't respond because they are off topic to the OP. Only one person in 8 pages has been on topic of the OP.

Syrenn, page 3, post #36

"If you want the job you have two choices.

Work for what is offered or get fired. Take your choice."

Nah, that's cause you want to date Syrenn's avatar. Many posts have been made of similar or better quality, just not brevity.