So the republican solution to our healthcare system is as little government as possible right?

[forkup]

Utter bull. Socialism presumes that people have a responsibility to society as a whole. It does not say anything about absolving yourself from responsibility. A society can not function if everybody simply think of themselves. Who would join the military? Become a firefighter? Fund roads? In fact human nature is based on cooperation of groups of people. Without it we wouldn't even have made it beyond cave dwellers.

Socialism demands one place a higher value on Socity’s desires and needs than an individual’s needs.

People CHOOSE to join the military or other public services in a proper society. They choose to bond together and have a say in the Government. If they disagree with decisions, they have the opportunity to leave and go somewhere where people agre with them.

In Socialist societies they are FORCED to join the military. They have little to no say in Government. Often they have no option to leave if they disagree with the Government. The Government tells them what to do, how to do it, when and where. There is no personal responsibility because there are no individuals, there is only the Government/Country.

-Saying that society as a whole has more importance then the individual is logical and how every societal group works. The US as a country is more important than you the individual. It is NOT a sign of socialism, it's not even unique of the human race. In all herd animals for instance, the leader of the pack will put themselves between danger and the rest of the herd. Him or her the individual is less important than the group.
-No, people choose to get PAID to provide that service. You pay taxes for it. You, at least I hope, acknowledge that you by yourself are incapable of defending yourself from other nation states. That is not immoral but simply sensible. The same is true for building roads, fighting fires, or hundreds of task and services needed to work as a state.
-The US had the draft, do you mean to imply they were socialist at the time? Israel has universal military service, are they Socialist? Conversely China has conscription only in theory. So what do you base that on?

 

[danielpalos]

What a difference a Constitution can make; we have a federal Republic. Thank Goodness, FDR was a left winger.

LOL. Neither Lincoln nor FDR gave a **** about the US Constitution. They’re the two largest destructors of the Constitution and paved the way for the Reagans, Clinton’s, Besh’s And Obama’s who merelybignored the tattered remains of the document.

what a Difference, a Constitution can make.

 

[Anathema]

-Saying that society as a whole has more importance then the individual is logical and how every societal group works.

Have you ever thought that many some of us don’t want your Society in our lives?

I am Morally obliterated to provide for three people - Me, Myself, and I. If I choose to bring additional people into my life (spouse, children, etc...), I become obligated to provide for them as well. Beyond that, I have no Moral obligations to any of you. End of story.

 

[Anathema]

what a Difference, a Constitution can make.

Yes. How nice it would be if we still had one in this country. Unfortunately Chairmen Lincoln and Roosevelt destroyed it and it has not been rebuilt.

 

[danielpalos]

what a Difference, a Constitution can make.

Yes. How nice it would be if we still had one in this country. Unfortunately Chairmen Lincoln and Roosevelt destroyed it and it has not been rebuilt.

nothing but repeal is worthless under any form of Capitalism.

 

[Mac1958]

Those who follow the libertarian approach to healthcare are missing an important fact: You ARE paying for others, whether you like it or not.

Your health insurance premiums, your co-pays, your co-insurance, your meds, your trips to the ER, your direct-pay doctor's fees are significantly higher because you're paying for those who can't, and those who skip out on paying.

You're also paying for those who can't afford preventive and diagnostic treatment, and let their conditions get much worse because of it. You're paying on the back end, when they need much more care and can't pay for it themselves.

You're paying tax money in the form of Medicaid and other services, and you'll have to keep paying for that whether you like it or not. You're paying for malpractice insurance, even if you're not the type to sue.

So go ahead, pat yourselves on the back for being so self-reliant, and be sure to ignore the fact that you're paying much more for being so.
.

 

[forkup]

-Saying that society as a whole has more importance then the individual is logical and how every societal group works.

Have you ever thought that many some of us don’t want your Society in our lives?

I am Morally obliterated to provide for three people - Me, Myself, and I. If I choose to bring additional people into my life (spouse, children, etc...), I become obligated to provide for them as well. Beyond that, I have no Moral obligations to any of you. End of story.

Do you drive? Use the internet? Draw a pension? Have medicaid? Go the the store? Have electricity? All these things need the government/society to function. You cannot even begin to pay for the infrastructure to provide any of that. So unless you live in cave you need society in your live. Do you realize that?

 

[danielpalos]

market friendliness is the way to go!

 

[Anathema]

Those who follow the libertarian approach to healthcare are missing an important fact: You ARE paying for others, whether you like it or not.

Which is exactly why we need to get the Government out of ALL involvement with the medical and health care industries. No Medicare. No Medicaid. No forcing hospitals to see patients who can’t pay. None of it.

 

[Anathema]

Do you drive? Use the internet? Draw a pension? Have medicaid? Go the the store? Have electricity? All these things need the government/society to function. You cannot even begin to pay for the infrastructure to provide any of that. So unless you live in cave you need society in your live. Do you realize that?

I drive on some of the most poorly maintained roads in the country. My internet footprint is very small. I do my best not to go out in public unless necessary.

How I wish I could live in isolation.

 

[Mac1958]

Those who follow the libertarian approach to healthcare are missing an important fact: You ARE paying for others, whether you like it or not.

Which is exactly why we need to get the Government out of ALL involvement with the medical and health care industries. No Medicare. No Medicaid. No forcing hospitals to see patients who can’t pay. None of it.

That's just not going to happen. Period. Ever.

So you can come up with a smarter approach, or we can just keep paying for people this expensive way.

Dealing with reality is a better idea when you're trying to improve something.
.

 

[Anathema]

That's just not going to happen. Period. Ever..

Then it’s time to burn this country down, exterminate those who can’t or won’t pull their own weight and start over again from scratch.

 

[forkup]

Do you drive? Use the internet? Draw a pension? Have medicaid? Go the the store? Have electricity? All these things need the government/society to function. You cannot even begin to pay for the infrastructure to provide any of that. So unless you live in cave you need society in your live. Do you realize that?

I drive on some of the most poorly maintained roads in the country. My internet footprint is very small. I do my best not to go out in public unless necessary.

How I wish I could live in isolation.

Well life expectancy before modern medicine was around 35. Forgive me when I think your isolation is not a good idea.

 

[Mac1958]

That's just not going to happen. Period. Ever..

Then it’s time to burn this country down, exterminate those who can’t or won’t pull their own weight and start over again from scratch.

Well, that's not going to happen either.

So those of us who are willing to figure this out will have to do so. The rest can have their fantasies.
.

 

[Anathema]

Well life expectancy before modern medicine was around 35. Forgive me when I think your isolation is not a good idea.

I’d rather live 35 decent, moral and proper years than a century in what you folks call modern society.

 

[Anathema]

So those of us who are willing to figure this out will have to do so. The rest can have their fantasies.

Just don’t expect me to assist, contribute to or accept your Society in any way.

 

[dblack]

Those who follow the libertarian approach to healthcare are missing an important fact: You ARE paying for others, whether you like it or not.

Your health insurance premiums, your co-pays, your co-insurance, your meds, your trips to the ER, your direct-pay doctor's fees are significantly higher because you're paying for those who can't, and those who skip out on paying.

You're also paying for those who can't afford preventive and diagnostic treatment, and let their conditions get much worse because of it. You're paying on the back end, when they need much more care and can't pay for it themselves.

You're paying tax money in the form of Medicaid and other services, and you'll have to keep paying for that whether you like it or not. You're paying for malpractice insurance, even if you're not the type to sue.

So go ahead, pat yourselves on the back for being so self-reliant, and be sure to ignore the fact that you're paying much more for being so.
.

You're the one missing the point. Libertarianism isn't about individualism - or rather the preoccupation with self-reliance. It's is about preventing coercion. The point is preserving liberty, not thwarting community.

We're fine with cost sharing, as long as it's voluntary. I don't mind if my hospital treats people who can't pay. In fact, I prefer that they do - at least when it comes to emergencies. I don't even mind a modest, tax-payer funded safety net, as long as it's not used as an excuse to socialize everything.

 

[forkup]

Well life expectancy before modern medicine was around 35. Forgive me when I think your isolation is not a good idea.

I’d rather live 35 decent, moral and proper years than a century in what you folks call modern society.

35 Decent, proper years?????? There is nothing decent or moral about fighting for survival until you die an early, often violent death. But if you think that is preferable, there's nothing stopping you from moving somewhere to the Amazons and trying to scratch a living fighting jaguars. You obviously don't like society so have at it.

 

[dblack]

Which is exactly why we need to get the Government out of ALL involvement with the medical and health care industries. No Medicare. No Medicaid. No forcing hospitals to see patients who can’t pay. None of it.

That's just not going to happen. Period. Ever.

I've learned, especially since 2016, not to take such statements at face value. Of course it can happen.

 

[danielpalos]

Do you drive? Use the internet? Draw a pension? Have medicaid? Go the the store? Have electricity? All these things need the government/society to function. You cannot even begin to pay for the infrastructure to provide any of that. So unless you live in cave you need society in your live. Do you realize that?

I drive on some of the most poorly maintained roads in the country. My internet footprint is very small. I do my best not to go out in public unless necessary.

How I wish I could live in isolation.

with a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed, more people would be able to afford more products;

that may give a given firm, some incentive to innovate the products you may desire.

Customers can simply ask for their own, "cone of silence".