so many of you talk about the poor and underpriveledged

[lizzie]

[Social problems are the most difficult problems we face. Poor parenting, addiction, child abuse, poor education, and criminality are the root cause for most other problems. Government may not be best place to find solutions, but often it is the only place.

Any society or nation is judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest not it's strongest.

Many of these problems have been created by government, not solved.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Remember the French Revolution? Yeah, that's what'll happen. I'm hoping it happens soon.

Running out of other people's money? Yeah, that's a laugh. The income gap is so big in this country that less than 10% of the people in it own more wealth than 90% of the people. No nation can long survive with the majority of it's wealth in the hands of a few.

Oh, really? You're hoping the French Revolution happens again?

When the mobs stormed the Bastille - which only had six prisoners in it at the time, because it was in the process of being closed down - the prison's commander, Marquis de Launay, tried repeatedly to surrender it, requiring only that it be done peacefully. The mobs refused and ended up hacking him to death and then mutilating the body. They stuck his head on a pike and danced in the streets with it.

When an armed mob stormed the Tuileries on August 10, 1792, they murdered every single person there. Women were raped and hacked to death. Members of the mob tore pieces off the mutilated corpses and carried them away as trophies. Children played kickball with the heads. The bodies were left to rot in the streets for days as a warning.

Another mob attacked a Carmelite convent, chopping the clergy they found there into pieces and throwing the bodies down a well. Later discovery of this well unearthed 119 skeletons down there.

I can go on and on, but I think we all get the idea. And you hope this happens again soon, do you? You're looking forward to blood running in the streets and mutilated bodies rotting, are you? Hoping to wear an ear on your blouse as a decoration, perhaps, or were you wanting to pull a heart out of someone's body and drink the blood from it (both documented occurrences during the French Revolution)?

You should be ashamed of yourself, either for your disgusting savagery or your woeful ignorance, whichever led you to say such an incredibly stupid thing.

You have to go through the bad to get to the good. I'm looking forward to a free America again with a strong middle class.

Oh, okay. So basically, all those thousands, or maybe millions, of people who will get horribly, savagely slaughtered on the way to YOU having a strong middle class (assuming your ignorant, selfish, Neanderthal ass isn't among them, just like Robespierre) are just the eggs that have to get cracked to make an omelette, no big deal to you, is that it? Collateral damage on the way to the bright new future? Acceptable casualties?

Well, now I know whether or not you say these things because you're two brain cells below room temperature or because you're a putrid pile of human filth: it's both.

You may now take yourself off my screen permanently, garbage. Not only are you not worth viewing, but if you were on fire, it would be a waste of perfectly good urine to put you out.

 

[snjmom]

Yep, that's right Cecile. In order to make omelets, you gotta break some eggs. When a nation is divided between those willing to negotiate and those unwilling to negotiate, it usually winds up getting physical. Revolution, war, big stinking piles of bodies. I'd blame Norquist if I were you. His decision to bring the government of the US to it's knees is coming to fruition. In a world where the leaderships mantra is screw you I got mine, you are shocked at the naked venality espoused by the general public? Greed is good, remember? The virtue of selfishness. There is always a price to be paid for moving forward.

But, if you can keep the bread and circuses going, the empire can last a real long time.

 

[Nosmo King]

[Social problems are the most difficult problems we face. Poor parenting, addiction, child abuse, poor education, and criminality are the root cause for most other problems. Government may not be best place to find solutions, but often it is the only place.

Any society or nation is judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest not it's strongest.

Many of these problems have been created by government, not solved.

Proof? Sounds like human nature to me. But it's easier for some to place blame on government because that's what they have been told to think.

 

[Claudette]

Oh, really? You're hoping the French Revolution happens again?

When the mobs stormed the Bastille - which only had six prisoners in it at the time, because it was in the process of being closed down - the prison's commander, Marquis de Launay, tried repeatedly to surrender it, requiring only that it be done peacefully. The mobs refused and ended up hacking him to death and then mutilating the body. They stuck his head on a pike and danced in the streets with it.

When an armed mob stormed the Tuileries on August 10, 1792, they murdered every single person there. Women were raped and hacked to death. Members of the mob tore pieces off the mutilated corpses and carried them away as trophies. Children played kickball with the heads. The bodies were left to rot in the streets for days as a warning.

Another mob attacked a Carmelite convent, chopping the clergy they found there into pieces and throwing the bodies down a well. Later discovery of this well unearthed 119 skeletons down there.

I can go on and on, but I think we all get the idea. And you hope this happens again soon, do you? You're looking forward to blood running in the streets and mutilated bodies rotting, are you? Hoping to wear an ear on your blouse as a decoration, perhaps, or were you wanting to pull a heart out of someone's body and drink the blood from it (both documented occurrences during the French Revolution)?

You should be ashamed of yourself, either for your disgusting savagery or or woeful ignorance, whichever led you to say such an incredibly stupid thing.

Great Post Cecile.

Apparantly Sheila has never really looked into the savagery that was the French Revolution. And it was savage with blood running in the streets and innocents guillotined right along with the supposed guilty. Not a nice time in French history.

She has also forgotten the decades of war that followed ala Bonaparte.

Interesting that she can hardly wait for that to happen in America.

She is an idiot.

The point is, that if we stop feeding the poor, as you all seem to want, they will rebel, anyone who thinks otherwise, is fooling themselves.

Nope. If we stop feeding the poor they will get off their asses and feed themselves. I personally know a few folks who have been riding the Welfare gravy train for years. They have no intention of getting off it either. If I know folks you can bet your ass there are many more out there that I don't know.

If you want to assume the burden for the poor and downtrodden then start your own charity idiot. Whip out YOUR wallet and YOUR checkbook and give them YOUR money. Believe me they will bleed you dry.

Unlike you I don't think everyone is great or deserving of my hardearned money. I prefer to pick and chose the CHARITIES I contribute to. I certainly resent my hardearned money being doled out by the Clowns in Govt who have decided that those who pay taxes should SUPPORT those who do not. Bullshit in capital letters.

 

[rightwinger]

Great Post Cecile.

Apparantly Sheila has never really looked into the savagery that was the French Revolution. And it was savage with blood running in the streets and innocents guillotined right along with the supposed guilty. Not a nice time in French history.

She has also forgotten the decades of war that followed ala Bonaparte.

Interesting that she can hardly wait for that to happen in America.

She is an idiot.

The point is, that if we stop feeding the poor, as you all seem to want, they will rebel, anyone who thinks otherwise, is fooling themselves.

Nope. If we stop feeding the poor they will get off their asses and feed themselves. I personally know a few folks who have been riding the Welfare gravy train for years. They have no intention of getting off it either. If I know folks you can bet your ass there are many more out there that I don't know.

If you want to assume the burden for the poor and downtrodden then start your own charity idiot. Whip out YOUR wallet and YOUR checkbook and give them YOUR money. Believe me they will bleed you dry.

Unlike you I don't think everyone is great or deserving of my hardearned money. I prefer to pick and chose the CHARITIES I contribute to. I certainly resent my hardearned money being doled out by the Clowns in Govt who have decided that those who pay taxes should SUPPORT those who do not. Bullshit in capital letters.

There are over a hundred nations on earth that do just what you say and provide minimal support to their poor. There is not a single one where the poor take that as an incentive to work harder and pick themselves up by their bootstraps. Almost unilaterally, it leads to more suffering by the poor

 

[lizzie]

[Social problems are the most difficult problems we face. Poor parenting, addiction, child abuse, poor education, and criminality are the root cause for most other problems. Government may not be best place to find solutions, but often it is the only place.

Any society or nation is judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest not it's strongest.

Many of these problems have been created by government, not solved.

Proof? Sounds like human nature to me. But it's easier for some to place blame on government because that's what they have been told to think.

Our government has been funding poverty for around 50 years now. Whatever they fund, grows. Poverty-stricken neighborhoods are great breeding grounds for filling up the future prisons and creating more fatherless children. Human nature is to take the path of least resistance.

 

[editec]

So, Conservatives think that food stamps harm people. That the protections granted by federal regulations which safeguard food and drug supplies, workplace safety, the environment and consumer products are onerous and intrusive. That unemployment insurance hinders the morale of the unemployed.

What manner of society do these Conservatives envision? No social safety nets. No protections against hazardous foods, drugs and consumer products.

Some Conservatives think that faulty work conditions, food and products can be remedied by lawsuit. But then, those same Conservatives want tort reform thus removing the last line of defense even the Conservatives think is "fair".

What?!?

Can they still be incredulous about the perception Conservatives side with corporations over workers?

No safety nets in the past boyo and no revolution.

What do corporations have to do with the freeloaders who abound in this country??

Abound? That's a new one. How many is that, exactly? How many able bodied "freeloaders" do we have in this country? Got a number?

Don't know how many of them are able bodied, or able to work, but the TOTAL number of American on WELFARE is about three million people.

My guess is most of them are children.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yep, that's right Cecile. In order to make omelets, you gotta break some eggs. When a nation is divided between those willing to negotiate and those unwilling to negotiate, it usually winds up getting physical. Revolution, war, big stinking piles of bodies. I'd blame Norquist if I were you. His decision to bring the government of the US to it's knees is coming to fruition. In a world where the leaderships mantra is screw you I got mine, you are shocked at the naked venality espoused by the general public? Greed is good, remember? The virtue of selfishness. There is always a price to be paid for moving forward.

But, if you can keep the bread and circuses going, the empire can last a real long time.

Well, I appreciate that the left is finally coming out of the closet and revealing itself in all its primitive, savage, blood-soaked glory.

But if you lazy, greedy, grasping bums and the ones out lounging on the courthouse lawn downtown expecting to be applauded and admired for simply behaving ALMOST as well as any normal, civilized human being would as a matter of course think you're going to blackmail the rest of us into subsidizing your worthless existences by threatening to become violent, you should keep in mind that the conservative right in America are ALSO the champions of the Second Amendment, and most of us don't think your existence contributes much to begin with.

We're tired of busting our asses to keep you in bread and circuses, and have no intention of "negotiating" an increase in how much you get to take advantage of us, just so you can come back next year and demand more.

 

[rightwinger]

Yep, that's right Cecile. In order to make omelets, you gotta break some eggs. When a nation is divided between those willing to negotiate and those unwilling to negotiate, it usually winds up getting physical. Revolution, war, big stinking piles of bodies. I'd blame Norquist if I were you. His decision to bring the government of the US to it's knees is coming to fruition. In a world where the leaderships mantra is screw you I got mine, you are shocked at the naked venality espoused by the general public? Greed is good, remember? The virtue of selfishness. There is always a price to be paid for moving forward.

But, if you can keep the bread and circuses going, the empire can last a real long time.

Well, I appreciate that the left is finally coming out of the closet and revealing itself in all its primitive, savage, blood-soaked glory.

But if you lazy, greedy, grasping bums and the ones out lounging on the courthouse lawn downtown expecting to be applauded and admired for simply behaving ALMOST as well as any normal, civilized human being would as a matter of course think you're going to blackmail the rest of us into subsidizing your worthless existences by threatening to become violent, you should keep in mind that the conservative right in America are ALSO the champions of the Second Amendment, and most of us don't think your existence contributes much to begin with.

We're tired of busting our asses to keep you in bread and circuses, and have no intention of "negotiating" an increase in how much you get to take advantage of us, just so you can come back next year and demand more.

I think your concept of who is taking advantage of you is misdirected

 

[Nosmo King]

Many of these problems have been created by government, not solved.

Proof? Sounds like human nature to me. But it's easier for some to place blame on government because that's what they have been told to think.

Our government has been funding poverty for around 50 years now. Whatever they fund, grows. Poverty-stricken neighborhoods are great breeding grounds for filling up the future prisons and creating more fatherless children. Human nature is to take the path of least resistance.

And you believe that conditions for ther poor, both urban and rural, were better fifty years ago than today?

 

[Flopper]

Great Post Cecile.

Apparantly Sheila has never really looked into the savagery that was the French Revolution. And it was savage with blood running in the streets and innocents guillotined right along with the supposed guilty. Not a nice time in French history.

She has also forgotten the decades of war that followed ala Bonaparte.

Interesting that she can hardly wait for that to happen in America.

She is an idiot.

The point is, that if we stop feeding the poor, as you all seem to want, they will rebel, anyone who thinks otherwise, is fooling themselves.

Nope. If we stop feeding the poor they will get off their asses and feed themselves. I personally know a few folks who have been riding the Welfare gravy train for years. They have no intention of getting off it either. If I know folks you can bet your ass there are many more out there that I don't know.

If you want to assume the burden for the poor and downtrodden then start your own charity idiot. Whip out YOUR wallet and YOUR checkbook and give them YOUR money. Believe me they will bleed you dry.

Unlike you I don't think everyone is great or deserving of my hardearned money. I prefer to pick and chose the CHARITIES I contribute to. I certainly resent my hardearned money being doled out by the Clowns in Govt who have decided that those who pay taxes should SUPPORT those who do not. Bullshit in capital letters.

If you haven't heard, there are about 15 million people actively seeking work. Most of these people have work experience and training. What makes you think 46 million people, mostly children, elderly, or disabled who lack education and job skills are going be hired because their hungry. That's nuts.

 

[lizzie]

Proof? Sounds like human nature to me. But it's easier for some to place blame on government because that's what they have been told to think.

Our government has been funding poverty for around 50 years now. Whatever they fund, grows. Poverty-stricken neighborhoods are great breeding grounds for filling up the future prisons and creating more fatherless children. Human nature is to take the path of least resistance.

And you believe that conditions for ther poor, both urban and rural, were better fifty years ago than today?

No- the point is that all the tax money our government has poured into the war on poverty has not done anything besides exacerbate the problem, while increasing the burden on those of us who produce.

 

[Againsheila]

Reading - free books at the public library
Playing with kids - public parks are also free

Just ask yourself what families did for entertainment before all those pricey little electronic gizmos existed, and go do that.

When we were kids, my parents took us to the Point Defiance Zoo and Aquarium. It's not free anymore, it's not even free to get into the park and forget about the gas to get there.

We played pick up at the local baseball field, now it's locked and the only people allowed to use it are organized sports teams.

We picked berries in the local field, now it has homeless living there and parents won't let their kids go there.

Camping isn't free anymore....and I don't know of any family tents that cost $40 or less.

We used to swim in the local lake but now it's filled with parasites.

We used to feed the ducks at another lake but now it's completely surrounded by apartments and condos and even if you could get to the lake, it's illegal to feed the ducks.

We used to play kickball in the street, now there's too much traffic, and we even have speed bumps.

We used to collect polliwogs, and play Tom Sawyer at the local swamp, but it's gone too.

books at the local library are still free but they don't have a lot of choices, unless you get online and reserve the books and pick them up later, and of course, you have to have an address to get a library card.

Even the playgrounds at the local elementary schools aren't the same. No slides, no swings, no merry go rounds...don't want to endanger the kids.

You have to wonder about people who haven't noticed how much the world has changed.

What you should be wondering is whether or not you're living in the wrong place, with an insanely negative "I'll find some reason why I can't change things" attitude.

If you don't have an address with which to get a library card, then you have bigger problems than wondering what to do for entertainment besides electronics.

What the hell's wrong with going online and reserving books? The library has computers you can do that on, and also allows you to order them from other branches if the one nearest you doesn't have a copy. Or, at least, my library does.

The parks and the baseball fields and play areas in the parks are still free where I live, and I suspect in most towns and cities. And because Tucson's citizens finally wised up and demanded that the laws and the cops crack down on the homeless problem, most of them are very pleasant, even in the poorer areas of town.

Tucson doesn't have lakes, being in a desert and all, but it DOES have community centers with pools for very nominal fees during the hotter parts of the year.

The largest park in town, Reid Park, has a huge duck pond where people can feed the ducks if they wish. It also has a rose garden where you can wander and see examples of a vast variety of roses (quite pretty and peaceful), and a band shell where you can see concerts and Shakespeare in the Park. The zoo is there, and while it's not free, it's not expensive. When I had just my first child, twenty-some years ago, we used to save up a little every week so that we could go to the zoo every so often.

All of the elementary schools in my city have really spiffy play areas. My kid loves 'em. Of course, Arizona's not as dumb and paranoid as some places.

I also used to take my daughter to wander the shopping malls. Most of them have play areas, and once I had it through her head that we weren't buying, but just browsing, she had a great time. The important thing to her - and this is the operative point that people forget - was that she had my undivided attention for the entire day.

I suggest you use some of the imagination you're spending on making excuses to think of ways to enjoy life without big bucks, and possibly investigate living somewhere more amenable to a simple lifestyle.

The community center in our city doesn't have a nominal fee, and they're wondering why no one is buying memberships....it's expensive. My neighbors, with 8 kids bought a family membership and then were told "family" was 4 people.

There are no public parks in this state where it's legal to feed the ducks. Remember the parasites? That's why they're there, because of the ducks.

Yeah, our shopping mall has a play area. That's fine when you're a toddler, but not when you are older.

Most of our elementary schools have looked their playgrounds, just like the baseball field is locked.

As for reserving books online, that's fine, if you have a computer and internet access...not so fine when all you have is the library. Their computers are constantly being used, you have to sign up for your time. Very seldom can you just walk in and use the computer to find a book you want and put it on hold. The librarians are really busy so it's difficult to get their time for anything too.

And yeah, people without addresses have bigger problems...I believe that was my point.

 

[Againsheila]

Remember the French Revolution? Yeah, that's what'll happen. I'm hoping it happens soon.

Running out of other people's money? Yeah, that's a laugh. The income gap is so big in this country that less than 10% of the people in it own more wealth than 90% of the people. No nation can long survive with the majority of it's wealth in the hands of a few.

Oh, really? You're hoping the French Revolution happens again?

When the mobs stormed the Bastille - which only had six prisoners in it at the time, because it was in the process of being closed down - the prison's commander, Marquis de Launay, tried repeatedly to surrender it, requiring only that it be done peacefully. The mobs refused and ended up hacking him to death and then mutilating the body. They stuck his head on a pike and danced in the streets with it.

When an armed mob stormed the Tuileries on August 10, 1792, they murdered every single person there. Women were raped and hacked to death. Members of the mob tore pieces off the mutilated corpses and carried them away as trophies. Children played kickball with the heads. The bodies were left to rot in the streets for days as a warning.

Another mob attacked a Carmelite convent, chopping the clergy they found there into pieces and throwing the bodies down a well. Later discovery of this well unearthed 119 skeletons down there.

I can go on and on, but I think we all get the idea. And you hope this happens again soon, do you? You're looking forward to blood running in the streets and mutilated bodies rotting, are you? Hoping to wear an ear on your blouse as a decoration, perhaps, or were you wanting to pull a heart out of someone's body and drink the blood from it (both documented occurrences during the French Revolution)?

You should be ashamed of yourself, either for your disgusting savagery or or woeful ignorance, whichever led you to say such an incredibly stupid thing.

The left is really using the French Revolution as their protest model. That is EXACTLY what they want.

Their error is in thinking that there is a majority in this country that supports them. Since there isn't, and we are an armed society, I too wish they would start their glorious revolution soon.

There you go again, blinding yourself to the fact that this isn't partisan. This is the real world and the dems and the reps are the two most corrupt parties in the history of our nation. Guess what? I'm in favor of both the Tea Party AND OWS. Both of them have recognized that our current system has failed us.

 

[Againsheila]

But you seemingly have no perspective on what it means to truly be poor. Or why someone is in that situation.

The terms are thrown around on USMB anytime it serves your personal agenda or ideology without giving any thought to what constitutes their personal circumstances. I've told my story a couple times so I won't go into it again but sufficed to say most of you are clueless.

Most of the time a mere lack of priorities leads a family down the wrong path. How many times have you stopped to help a homeless person to offer help only to have it denied? I have many times. On occasion I've offered to work someone with a "will work for food" sign only to have them put out their cigarette (which cost money) and tell me they really only had time for cash gifts.

Then you have families that can barely afford to put food on the table yet they have cable and xboxes. My brother is one of those people. He is right now as we speak sleeping in my basement despite being told to find a job by this Monday or get out.

I am tired of people always saying we have to do more for the poor when a large portion of them won't even help themselves. I lifted myself from poverty so why do I have to do for others what they can do for themselves? I'm not saying we shouldn't have a safety net but I am saying the able but unwilling can fall through our safety net for all I care.

I guess your point is there is a wide range of reasons why some people do not do as well as others. The right wing loves to place the blame on the welfare queen scamming the system or those who are too lazy to work.

Any way you cut it, this is a piss poor economy. People who formerly had good jobs with good pay and benefits find themselves without work and ask "What did I do wrong?". I get tired of people calling our bottom 50% lazy and stupid. American workers are the hardest working and most productive in the world.

Truth be told, the people responsible for their struggles are still doing well. They made bad investments, they took wild risks, they were the first in line for bailouts. The financial collapse they created is hurting millions of workers. It is time we stop blaming the victims

I get tired too of people rejecting jobs!
Since Jan 2010 I have received 870 emails from SnagaJob.com.
Each email has a minimum of at least one job and many have jobs like the below:

RN or LPN (Registered / Licensed Practical Nurse)
Certified Framer
General Manager
Salesperson
Crew Member
Sr Sales Associate
Customer Service Representative
Support Specialist
Night Maintenance

So tell me why would ANYONE have a problem finding a job!
All of the above jobs were within 20 miles of where I live!
And MY state has the 10th worst unemployment rate of 10.3% for 09/2011!

10th worst unemployment rate YET I have 870 emails since Jan 2010 each for one job and many emails like the above.

Please explain "WHAT IS THE UNEMPLOYMENT problem for people that TRULY want to et off "unemployment benefits?

Not everyone qualifies for all those jobs...The last time I applied for Customer Service rep, there were literally hundreds of people applying and no one locally got the job, they hired someone who had already worked with the company in another state.

 

[Againsheila]

So, Conservatives think that food stamps harm people. That the protections granted by federal regulations which safeguard food and drug supplies, workplace safety, the environment and consumer products are onerous and intrusive. That unemployment insurance hinders the morale of the unemployed.

What manner of society do these Conservatives envision? No social safety nets. No protections against hazardous foods, drugs and consumer products.

Some Conservatives think that faulty work conditions, food and products can be remedied by lawsuit. But then, those same Conservatives want tort reform thus removing the last line of defense even the Conservatives think is "fair".

What?!?

Can they still be incredulous about the perception Conservatives side with corporations over workers?

No safety nets in the past boyo and no revolution.

What do corporations have to do with the freeloaders who abound in this country??

Um, Revolutionary War, Civil War, Industrial revolution, Bonus Army,...have you read a history book?

 

[Againsheila]

Our government has been funding poverty for around 50 years now. Whatever they fund, grows. Poverty-stricken neighborhoods are great breeding grounds for filling up the future prisons and creating more fatherless children. Human nature is to take the path of least resistance.

And you believe that conditions for ther poor, both urban and rural, were better fifty years ago than today?

No- the point is that all the tax money our government has poured into the war on poverty has not done anything besides exacerbate the problem, while increasing the burden on those of us who produce.

I won't argue there, raise the mw, raise the taxes on the top 10% and reduce the taxes on the middle class and watch our country improve overnight.

Like I said, put the money in the hands of those that spend it and our economy will get better.

 

[Nosmo King]

Our government has been funding poverty for around 50 years now. Whatever they fund, grows. Poverty-stricken neighborhoods are great breeding grounds for filling up the future prisons and creating more fatherless children. Human nature is to take the path of least resistance.

And you believe that conditions for ther poor, both urban and rural, were better fifty years ago than today?

No- the point is that all the tax money our government has poured into the war on poverty has not done anything besides exacerbate the problem, while increasing the burden on those of us who produce.

You answered my question yes, and you bitched about helping the poor at the same time.

 

[lizzie]

And you believe that conditions for ther poor, both urban and rural, were better fifty years ago than today?

No- the point is that all the tax money our government has poured into the war on poverty has not done anything besides exacerbate the problem, while increasing the burden on those of us who produce.

You answered my question yes, and you bitched about helping the poor at the same time.

And???? We have a no-bitching rule around here that I'm not aware of?