Skilled Trades are Dead

[odanny]

Reagan's freetrade/globalization became teh status qou that big business adjusted to.

And the American workers got fucked by.

NOw, Trump and maga are finally, FINALLY dealing with the fact that that policy did NOT deliver what it promised.

And the Establishment Powers that Be and their serfs, are fighting against TRUMP and MAGA that are trying to fix that.


YOU are on the side of REAGAN'S old and now failed trade policy.


So, yeah. That is my point. Would you like to address it now?

Oh dear, if you think Trump's approach has even the slightest chance of success, you are fooling yourself.

Start a trade war when your country no longer has a manufacturing base because of Republican policy of prioritizing profits at the expense of the other 95% of America's? Ronnie started with blowing up unions, which is NOTHING to what Trump has done to our government. And he is just getting started.

This is the inverse policy of China, which instead prioritizes the country first, and the business establishment somewhere further down below the government. Everything they do is with the intent to make their economy stronger, while everything we have done is to make us more dependent on a natural enemy of the West. But big business made so much money!

I'm sorry that Trump's trade war is destined to fail, but no one who acts this recklessly is ever successful in the long run. They might win a few battles but they always lose the war in the end, and China has us over a barrel. They can cause real pain, and we are largely helpless if they do. Democrats have also failed us, if that gives you any comfort.

 

[Correll]

Oh dear, if you think Trump's approach has even the slightest chance of success, you are fooling yourself.

Start a trade war when your country no longer has a manufacturing base because of Republican policy of prioritizing profits at the expense of the other 95% of America's? Ronnie started with blowing up unions, which is NOTHING to what Trump has done to our government. And he is just getting started.

Our manufacturing sector is still there. It is not GONE, it has been hurt. But it is certainly capable of growing and becoming better.

This is the inverse policy of China, which instead prioritizes the country first, and the business establishment somewhere further down below the government. Everything they do is with the intent to make their economy stronger, while everything we have done is to make us more dependent on a natural enemy of the West. But big business made so much money!

China wants the money that comes with having a trade surplus. Trump wants to at least reduce the trade deficit and bring back at least some of the jobs.

That is not the "inverse" of what China did.

I'm sorry that Trump's trade war is destined to fail, but no one who acts this recklessly is ever successful in the long run. They might win a few battles but they always lose the war in the end, and China has us over a barrel. They can cause real pain, and we are largely helpless if they do. Democrats have also failed us, if that gives you any comfort.

So, your answer is the same answer that every lefty has for the American worker, there is nothign to be done for you. It is too late. Just deal with being poor.

Sorry, that's not good enough.

IF THAT is true, btw, that the rest of the world, just refuses to deal with an America that wants to have a fair deal, and it is too late for US to turn this back?

Then I would rather fuck them all, and turn the table over, then let them continue to benefit at our expense.

SUCK IT UP, is not an answer I am prepared to accept.

 

[progressive hunter]

But the video sounds fake, and likely is fake.

so,,

the concept is still solid

 

[odanny]

So, your answer is the same answer that every lefty has for the American worker, there is nothign to be done for you. It is too late. Just deal with being poor.

Sorry, that's not good enough.

IF THAT is true, btw, that the rest of the world, just refuses to deal with an America that wants to have a fair deal, and it is too late for US to turn this back?

Then I would rather fuck them all, and turn the table over, then let them continue to benefit at our expense.

SUCK IT UP, is not an answer I am prepared to accept.

Unfortunately no one from either side of the aisle has done anything, and it is exactly what made an outsider like Trump President. Twice.

But just overturning the apple cart is not enough, you have to have a plan on how to rebuild it, and tariffs are not forcing anything to happen other than higher prices. I understand why people think this is better than nothing, because nothing is all they have gotten. Rolling the dice on Trump is no gamble I'll ever make, so I cashed out and parked my money somewhere safe.

Gotta look out for yourself more than ever under Trump, and you will find out why before much longer. Social Security and Medicare are just sitting there defenseless, and Elon is on stage with a chainsaw. Hope you don't get burned too bad. I'm not reliant on either of them now, but when I need them, I hope they still exist.

 

[Correll]

Unfortunately no one from either side of the aisle has done anything, and it is exactly what made an outsider like Trump President. Twice.

Correct. As I have pointed out many times, if you wanted a less radical response, you had plenty of time to do it.

But just overturning the apple cart is not enough, you have to have a plan on how to rebuild it, and tariffs are not forcing anything to happen other than higher prices.

Bit early to say that, I think. We shall see.

I understand why people think this is better than nothing, because nothing is all they have gotten. Rolling the dice on Trump is no gamble I'll ever make, so I cashed out and parked my money somewhere safe.

Well, we certainly have not gotten any POLICY to serve our interests. So, at least Trump is TRYING. ANd at least he is not actively HOSTILE to us, like many on the left.

Gotta look out for yourself more than ever under Trump, and you will find out why before much longer. Social Security and Medicare are just sitting there defenseless, and Elon is on stage with a chainsaw. Hope you don't get burned too bad. I'm not reliant on either of them now, but when I need them, I hope they still exist.

If some of the jobs do come back, adn wages do rise, will you admit it?

Becuase I am sure that hte left will generation some shit talk to try to give anti-trumpers an excuse to NOT admit it.


Will you be a willful dupe in that scenario, or give Trump the credit he is due?

 

[JohnDB]

I hate to be anecdotal, but if a healthy, enthusiastic young man goes to his local union hall telling them he wants to be - for example - an electrician, he will be told to go fuck off. Same for plumber, steamfitter, bricklayer, etc.

It doesn't work that way. You have to know somebody or know somebody who knows somebody.

My nephew went through this process, and was after a year or so able to find a job as an apprentice with a NON-UNION construction company. After working his way up for five years or so, the electrician's union finally let him in - as an apprentice. He is doing fine now, getting well paid and doing as much work as he chooses on weekends to supplement his income.

The idea that these trades are not being filled because nobody wants those jobs is bullshit. The "system" is set up to make it difficult or impossible to break into the skilled trades.

Unless you know someone.

In my area (north of Pittsburgh), roofers, landscapers, and other small contractors who employ unskilled workers cannot fill their needs, even at $30/hr. People don't show up, refuse to work hard, or quit after a couple days. At least that's what they tell me.

In the non-right to work states....that's exactly how things work as far as skilled trade unions go.

In the right to work states where unions are not so powerful....it's like the small contractors. They have easy enter trade schools which will instantly put you to work at a contractor. No tuition necessary. Just buy your own tools at any hardware store. (I'm not loaning out my tools)

And yet nobody wants these jobs. Sure most are outdoors some of the time. Some require heavy lifting. All require extensive safety training. Occasionally you will work swing or graveyard shifts. Also the location changes regularly.

But the pay is good and the hours are what they are. You definitely can make a living doing this kind of work. Layoffs are just an excuse for an unscheduled vacation. But you can schedule a vacation if you wish to. Nobody complains if you are anywhere near competent.

 

[TNHarley]

Reagan was the great deceiver, he was an actor that delivered lines written by unsavory people who liked deceiving the masses.

Breaking apart the middle class was his stock in trade.

He created so many problems, you can pretty much blame the destabilization of Central and South America on Reagan's policies, as well as the U.S. border crisis that has been the fruit from the trees Reagan planted.

Top 5 worst presidents

 

[Jarlaxle]

In the non-right to work states....that's exactly how things work as far as skilled trade unions go.

In the right to work states where unions are not so powerful....it's like the small contractors. They have easy enter trade schools which will instantly put you to work at a contractor. No tuition necessary. Just buy your own tools at any hardware store. (I'm not loaning out my tools)

And yet nobody wants these jobs. Sure most are outdoors some of the time. Some require heavy lifting. All require extensive safety training. Occasionally you will work swing or graveyard shifts. Also the location changes regularly.

But the pay is good and the hours are what they are. You definitely can make a living doing this kind of work. Layoffs are just an excuse for an unscheduled vacation. But you can schedule a vacation if you wish to. Nobody complains if you are anywhere near competent.

Spot on.

 

[odanny]

If some of the jobs do come back, adn wages do rise, will you admit it?

Becuase I am sure that hte left will generation some shit talk to try to give anti-trumpers an excuse to NOT admit it.


Will you be a willful dupe in that scenario, or give Trump the credit he is due?

I know that there had to a be a multitude of changes made to fix the broken system in Washington D.C., but the way Trump and Musk are going about it is so reckless that I could never support that. I will definitely give Trump credit were he to see a resurgence of U.S. manufacturing, but the infrastructure is not in place for most of this manufacturing, with the exception of the auto industry. The rest of these corporations, were they to shift operations to this country, would not even be online before Trump's term is over.

That is very significant, because if all they have to do is wait out 4 years, that would be more cost effective than starting over in the U.S.. Even a corporation I worked for shuttered many U.S. operations for China. They can restart in this country, and they won't be, if anything, they would move those operations to Vietnam or India if they were forced to leave China, as they have a footprint there already. Anything moved here would be minor and just for show.

There has to be a better political structure in place, with long term planning and people not being "forced" to do it to bring it back. Economic incentive is pretty much the key, with one exception.

War with China would do it. Hopefully that is not the next step.

 

[Correll]

I know that there had to a be a multitude of changes made to fix the broken system in Washington D.C., but the way Trump and Musk are going about it is so reckless that I could never support that. I will definitely give Trump credit were he to see a resurgence of U.S. manufacturing,

Good.

but the infrastructure is not in place for most of this manufacturing, with the exception of the auto industry. The rest of these corporations, were they to shift operations to this country, would not even be online before Trump's term is over.

BUT, A. cars are big. That would be something impressive by ITSELF and B. if you saw it working on cars but others trying to outlast Trump, wouldn't that tell you want needed to be done next, ie elect VANCE?

That is very significant, because if all they have to do is wait out 4 years, that would be more cost effective than starting over in the U.S.. Even a corporation I worked for shuttered many U.S. operations for China. They can restart in this country, and they won't be, if anything, they would move those operations to Vietnam or India if they were forced to leave China, as they have a footprint there already. Anything moved here would be minor and just for show.

There would be value in just getting it OUT Of fucking CHINA, but yes, I see your point. Which is why we don't want Trump to be a fluke, but we want MAGA for a long stretch.

There has to be a better political structure in place, with long term planning and people not being "forced" to do it to bring it back. Economic incentive is pretty much the key, with one exception.
.....

Not sure I understand what you are suggesting. I'm happy to force them. Incentives?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Include barbers, bartenders in that as well. I kept real busy through out the 1980s by being reliable and getting the job done right. One of the problems is pay. Some people want skilled work at laborers wages. I made a good in construction fixing others screw ups .

More Excuses for the Scrooges to Import Foreigners

That's what happens when the Educationists demand that training be work without pay. The smug and ignorant opinionists who are assigned to suggest an alternative can only come up with the lame and unmotivating "free training." But the trainee or student can hardly be called "free" himself if he is pressured into this indentured servitude.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

But whatever your opinion of Reagan...

We NEED skilled trades to become great again.
People with mechanical aptitude to build things.

Jealousy of Talent

Aptitude must be paid upfront. Otherwise, business and society deserve this situation.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

This is the result of snooty lib females who want emasculated males that work behind a desk even if they make less money

Rodham Rodents

Why would any red-blooded male go after a screeching Femininny nag hags. He'd want earthy women, not these unearthly creatures.

 

[Unkotare]

We are losing skilled tradesman in droves.
Carpenters, plumbers, electricians and mechanics. They don't exist anymore. ...

Bullshit. There are long waiting lists to get into vocational high schools, and new ones are being built all the time.

 

[22lcidw]

Reagan was the great deceiver, he was an actor that delivered lines written by unsavory people who liked deceiving the masses.

Breaking apart the middle class was his stock in trade.

He created so many problems, you can pretty much blame the destabilization of Central and South America on Reagan's policies, as well as the U.S. border crisis that has been the fruit from the trees Reagan planted.

That 23% tax cut over three years, reduction of tax brackets with an increase in income from that along with inflation relief on the tax tales and the IRA setup was massive tax relief. The inflation in the 1970's kept putting workers in higher and higher tax brackets even as they did not become wealthier.

 

[JohnDB]

Of what I've seen of inflation....

Money loses its value but wages NEVER increase at the same rate as prices increase.

Meaning where inflation was at 11% & 13% most wages only increased by 3%-6%.

And those on fixed income are just now getting a 3% ? increase. But Medicare rates are increasing more than the increase in payment increases. (Typical bait and switch where SS payments are actually decreasing)

The ONLY time real wages increase is during labor shortages....and even then reluctantly. Mostly by people having to change jobs. Your employer will never keep pace with inflation. Time and time again it's been proven. You have to quit and get hired on by a new company (doing the same job) to get any sort of pay raise.

Board of Directors and CEOs legally represent the "best interests of the stockholders" meaning that they are never, ever going to seek employee retention through raises for the employees even if they seek raises and bonuses when the company is losing money. "Because the company needs them".

I used to get fired a lot as a construction electrician. (Industrial and commercial) But I made top dollar in my area and those who fired me were always happy to see me on the next project. And I never went without work for long. Maybe a week or two at most.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Of what I've seen of inflation....

Money loses its value but wages NEVER increase at the same rate as prices increase.

Meaning where inflation was at 11% & 13% most wages only increased by 3%-6%.

And those on fixed income are just now getting a 3% ? increase. But Medicare rates are increasing more than the increase in payment increases. (Typical bait and switch where SS payments are actually decreasing)

The ONLY time real wages increase is during labor shortages....and even then reluctantly. Mostly by people having to change jobs. Your employer will never keep pace with inflation. Time and time again it's been proven. You have to quit and get hired on by a new company (doing the same job) to get any sort of pay raise.

Board of Directors and CEOs legally represent the "best interests of the stockholders" meaning that they are never, ever going to seek employee retention through raises for the employees even if they seek raises and bonuses when the company is losing money. "Because the company needs them".

I used to get fired a lot as a construction electrician. (Industrial and commercial) But I made top dollar in my area and those who fired me were always happy to see me on the next project. And I never went without work for long. Maybe a week or two at most.

Those Deafened by Plute Propaganda Can't Hear the Giant Sucking Sound on Wall Street

Unbridled Capitalism is collectivist. The employees create the revenue and the absentee owners collect it from them.

 

[whitehall]

Rowe isn't exactly an example of a tradesmen, skilled or otherwise. He is an entertainer who plays a tradesman in Hollywood type episodes. His opinion is of no more value than the 7-11 clerk who risks his life every night on the midnight shift.

 

[braalian]

100% the fault of employers who increasingly try to pay tradesmen shit wages

 

[Mac-7]

100% the fault of employers who increasingly try to pay tradesmen shit wages

Too many migrants roaming the streets thanks to democrats who depress wages