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So you don't believe that renewables need to be able to eventually provide 100% of the electricity?Good lord! Have you passed that to the energy utilities? You're gonna save their bacon for sure. My god you're a genius. Think of the money they might have wasted if you hadn't figured all that out. Hoo-WEEEEE!!!
It's not that. What I don't believe is that you think you came up with something original there; that had occurred to no one else.So you don't believe that renewables need to be able to eventually provide 100% of the electricity?
Given that wind and solar generate electricity intermittently how do you think they will be able to provide 100% of the electricity with no fossil fuel generating plants?
I don't believe I did. I believe I came up with something that no one wants to admit or discuss.It's not that. What I don't believe is that you think you came up with something original there; that had occurred to no one else.
Said Arabia runs whole towns on solar since the 1980s. ..and ten years ago Farasan island went completely solar.So you don't believe that renewables need to be able to eventually provide 100% of the electricity?
Given that wind and solar generate electricity intermittently how do you think they will be able to provide 100% of the electricity with no fossil fuel generating plants to provide electricity when there is no wind or sun shining on the panels?
Great and how do they provide electricity at night?Said Arabia runs whole towns on solar since the 1980s. ..and ten years ago Farasan island went completely solar.
Not in the slightest. I am leading you to your predictable surprises that you don't want to acknowledge but do exist in reality and will eventually be discovered by everyone. To me it's dishonest not to be fully transparent and discuss what the future must look like and what those costs will be.This is the sort of thing you do that simply wastes my time.
Yep and air conditioning. They figure their solar applications in Arabia are equivalent to 30 million bpd.Great and how do they provide electricity at night?
Beware of bloomberg fairies spreading wishful thinking dressed as news
Texas Calls for Power Conservation After Six Generators Fail
The Texas grid operator called on residents to conserve energy Friday after six generation facilities tripped offline amid hot weather, prompting power prices to spike.www.bloomberg.com
After the endless litany of posts here claiming that wind and solar power would all have to be fully backed up by fossil fuel plants, this is irony at its finest. All six plants that failed were fired by natural gas. What backed them up? Any guesses?
The question was how do they provide electricity from solar when the sun isn't shining like at night?Yep and air conditioning. They figure their solar applications in Arabia are equivalent to 30 million bpd.
I don't know. I didn't ask that question when I toured the university.The question was how do they provide electricity from solar when the sun isn't shining like at night?
Agreed. There is such thing as nuclear batteries but not sure if they are viable or if they are blocked by environmental regulations. But, even so, the huge amount of solar arrays needed the maintenance and the land needed for ground-mounts as well as the fact that solar only works when the sun is shining seems pretty prohibitive for providing power to the whole nation. Windmills need lots of maintenance, take up large swaths of land and only work when the wind blows. That is why IMO, 'green' and/or 'renewable' energy is a huge misnomer and nothing more than a pipe dream.I don't believe I did. I believe I came up with something that no one wants to admit or discuss.
Now... do you disagree with what I have laid out? That to generate 100% of electricity from renewables requires extra capacity to charge batteries so that the batteries can provide electricity when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining on the panels?
Seems to me, that is the one question you should have asked.I don't know. I didn't ask that question when I toured the university.
Yes, but I was awestruck by what they are working on at KAUST.Seems to me, that is the one question you should have asked.
Interesting place.....Yes, but I was awestruck by what they are working on at KAUST.
en.wikipedia.org
The Sun always shines. Not its fault the Earth turns.The question was how do they provide electricity from solar when the sun isn't shining like at night?
Battery storage: (an example of how nothing typically gets done in Texas)Wind power in Texas, a portion of total energy in Texas, consists of over 150 wind farms, which together have a total nameplate capacity of over 30,000 MW (as of 2020).[1][2] If Texas were a country, it would rank fifth in the world:[1] The installed wind capacity in Texas exceeds installed wind capacity in all countries but China, the United States, Germany and India. Texas produces the most wind power of any U.S. state.
What that really says is Texas Big Oil rules the utility and never wants independent wind or solar farms being permanently connected to the State's grid. They meter the power going in and coming out from the generator's side to make sure net power never comes out.Key Topic Concept (KTC) Number 8 KTC Title Wholesale Storage Load Treatment
Date Posted December 10, 2019
Executive Summary This KTC recommends whether provisions related to Wholesale Storage Load (WSL) treatment for battery energy storage should be modified.
Recommendation Description WSL treatment should not be extended to Energy Storage Resources (ESRs) that are capable of self-serving retail Load, such as Private Use Network (PUN) Load, with the stored energy.
BESTF Discussion On 11/15/19, ERCOT staff presented on KTC 8 item 1, which asked about the appropriateness of WSL treatment for batteries located within PUNs.
On 12/6/19, the BESTF reached consensus on KTC 8 item 1.
TAC Action Requested BESTF plans to request at the 1/29/20 TAC meeting a vote to approve KTC 8 item 1.
TAC Action Summary
Proposed KTC Recommendation Language
Key Topic/Concept recommendation Language for TAC Approval
1/29/20 TAC Meeting:
The BESTF acknowledged the language in PUC Subst. Rule 25.501 (m) which states that WSL occurs when stored energy is “subsequently re-generated and sold at wholesale as energy or ancillary services.” Based on this provision in Rule, a battery that serves retail Load behind its Point of Interconnection should be ineligible for WSL treatment.
None.
Key Topic/Concept recommendation Language Previously Approved by tac
None.
Key Topic/Concept recommendation Language IN DISCUSSION AT BESTF
None.
Future Decision Points and Issues for Developing Key topic/Concept recommendation Language
Item #2 in KTC-8 asks: Should WSL treatment implementation extend to non-dispatched generators? If yes, should there be differentiation between a SOG that is co-located with customer load and one that only has auxiliary loads behind the metering point?
Settlement Only Energy Storage is not yet a defined term, pending future NPRR submissions by the Resource Definition Task Force (RTF). Under current rules, a battery with capacity >1 MW that injects to the grid would register with ERCOT as a Settlement Only Distribution Generator or Settlement Only Transmission Generator. The BESTF has deferred discussion on WSL treatment for these resources until sometime early next year.
Applicable Protocol Section(s)
Impacted System(s) / Application(s)
Thank you Captain Obvious, however, since the Earth spins on its axis, half of it is without enough sunlight to power a solar array each day. But you knew that didn't you? Therefore you are only trolling. Battery storage is inadequate at this time.The Sun always shines. Not its fault the Earth turns.
Battery storage: (an example of how nothing typically gets done in Texas)
The government should just mandate it.The Sun always shines. Not its fault the Earth turns.
Battery storage: (an example of how nothing typically gets done in Texas)
The potential for battery storage is significant. Vanadium redox battery - WikipediaThank you Captain Obvious, however, since the Earth spins on its axis, half of it is without enough sunlight to power a solar array each day. But you knew that didn't you? Therefore you are only trolling. Battery storage is inadequate at this time.
that's a pretty rare occurrence and smacks of ineptitudeHave you all learned your lesson? That fossil fueled power plants are simply unreliable?
