Six Natural Gas Power Plants Fail in "Refurbished" Texas Power Grid

[ding]

Good lord! Have you passed that to the energy utilities? You're gonna save their bacon for sure. My god you're a genius. Think of the money they might have wasted if you hadn't figured all that out. Hoo-WEEEEE!!!

So you don't believe that renewables need to be able to eventually provide 100% of the electricity?

Given that wind and solar generate electricity intermittently how do you think they will be able to provide 100% of the electricity with no fossil fuel generating plants to provide electricity when there is no wind or sun shining on the panels?

 

[Crick]

So you don't believe that renewables need to be able to eventually provide 100% of the electricity?

Given that wind and solar generate electricity intermittently how do you think they will be able to provide 100% of the electricity with no fossil fuel generating plants?

It's not that. What I don't believe is that you think you came up with something original there; that had occurred to no one else.

 

[ding]

It's not that. What I don't believe is that you think you came up with something original there; that had occurred to no one else.

I don't believe I did. I believe I came up with something that no one wants to admit or discuss.

Now... do you disagree with what I have laid out? That to generate 100% of electricity from renewables requires extra capacity to charge batteries so that the batteries can provide electricity when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining on the panels?

 

[Crick]

This is the sort of thing you do that simply wastes my time.

 

[surada]

So you don't believe that renewables need to be able to eventually provide 100% of the electricity?

Given that wind and solar generate electricity intermittently how do you think they will be able to provide 100% of the electricity with no fossil fuel generating plants to provide electricity when there is no wind or sun shining on the panels?

Said Arabia runs whole towns on solar since the 1980s. ..and ten years ago Farasan island went completely solar.

 

[ding]

Said Arabia runs whole towns on solar since the 1980s. ..and ten years ago Farasan island went completely solar.

Great and how do they provide electricity at night?

 

[ding]

This is the sort of thing you do that simply wastes my time.

Not in the slightest. I am leading you to your predictable surprises that you don't want to acknowledge but do exist in reality and will eventually be discovered by everyone. To me it's dishonest not to be fully transparent and discuss what the future must look like and what those costs will be.

 

[surada]

Great and how do they provide electricity at night?

Yep and air conditioning. They figure their solar applications in Arabia are equivalent to 30 million bpd.

 

[Mac-7]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

www.bloomberg.com

After the endless litany of posts here claiming that wind and solar power would all have to be fully backed up by fossil fuel plants, this is irony at its finest. All six plants that failed were fired by natural gas. What backed them up? Any guesses?

Beware of bloomberg fairies spreading wishful thinking dressed as news

 

[ding]

Yep and air conditioning. They figure their solar applications in Arabia are equivalent to 30 million bpd.

The question was how do they provide electricity from solar when the sun isn't shining like at night?

 

[surada]

The question was how do they provide electricity from solar when the sun isn't shining like at night?

I don't know. I didn't ask that question when I toured the university.

 

[Leo123]

I don't believe I did. I believe I came up with something that no one wants to admit or discuss.

Now... do you disagree with what I have laid out? That to generate 100% of electricity from renewables requires extra capacity to charge batteries so that the batteries can provide electricity when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining on the panels?

Agreed. There is such thing as nuclear batteries but not sure if they are viable or if they are blocked by environmental regulations. But, even so, the huge amount of solar arrays needed the maintenance and the land needed for ground-mounts as well as the fact that solar only works when the sun is shining seems pretty prohibitive for providing power to the whole nation. Windmills need lots of maintenance, take up large swaths of land and only work when the wind blows. That is why IMO, 'green' and/or 'renewable' energy is a huge misnomer and nothing more than a pipe dream.

 

[Leo123]

I don't know. I didn't ask that question when I toured the university.

Seems to me, that is the one question you should have asked.

 

[surada]

Seems to me, that is the one question you should have asked.

Yes, but I was awestruck by what they are working on at KAUST.

 

[Leo123]

Yes, but I was awestruck by what they are working on at KAUST.

Interesting place.....

King Abdullah University of Science and Technology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Grumblenuts]

The question was how do they provide electricity from solar when the sun isn't shining like at night?

The Sun always shines. Not its fault the Earth turns.

Wind power in Texas, a portion of total energy in Texas, consists of over 150 wind farms, which together have a total nameplate capacity of over 30,000 MW (as of 2020).[1][2] If Texas were a country, it would rank fifth in the world:[1] The installed wind capacity in Texas exceeds installed wind capacity in all countries but China, the United States, Germany and India. Texas produces the most wind power of any U.S. state.

Battery storage: (an example of how nothing typically gets done in Texas)

Key Topic Concept (KTC) Number 8 KTC Title Wholesale Storage Load Treatment
Date Posted December 10, 2019

Executive Summary This KTC recommends whether provisions related to Wholesale Storage Load (WSL) treatment for battery energy storage should be modified.
Recommendation Description WSL treatment should not be extended to Energy Storage Resources (ESRs) that are capable of self-serving retail Load, such as Private Use Network (PUN) Load, with the stored energy.
BESTF Discussion On 11/15/19, ERCOT staff presented on KTC 8 item 1, which asked about the appropriateness of WSL treatment for batteries located within PUNs.
On 12/6/19, the BESTF reached consensus on KTC 8 item 1.
TAC Action Requested BESTF plans to request at the 1/29/20 TAC meeting a vote to approve KTC 8 item 1.
TAC Action Summary

Proposed KTC Recommendation Language

Key Topic/Concept recommendation Language for TAC Approval
1/29/20 TAC Meeting:
The BESTF acknowledged the language in PUC Subst. Rule 25.501 (m) which states that WSL occurs when stored energy is “subsequently re-generated and sold at wholesale as energy or ancillary services.” Based on this provision in Rule, a battery that serves retail Load behind its Point of Interconnection should be ineligible for WSL treatment.
None.

Key Topic/Concept recommendation Language Previously Approved by tac
None.

Key Topic/Concept recommendation Language IN DISCUSSION AT BESTF
None.
Future Decision Points and Issues for Developing Key topic/Concept recommendation Language
Item #2 in KTC-8 asks: Should WSL treatment implementation extend to non-dispatched generators? If yes, should there be differentiation between a SOG that is co-located with customer load and one that only has auxiliary loads behind the metering point?
Settlement Only Energy Storage is not yet a defined term, pending future NPRR submissions by the Resource Definition Task Force (RTF). Under current rules, a battery with capacity >1 MW that injects to the grid would register with ERCOT as a Settlement Only Distribution Generator or Settlement Only Transmission Generator. The BESTF has deferred discussion on WSL treatment for these resources until sometime early next year.

Applicable Protocol Section(s)
Impacted System(s) / Application(s)

What that really says is Texas Big Oil rules the utility and never wants independent wind or solar farms being permanently connected to the State's grid. They meter the power going in and coming out from the generator's side to make sure net power never comes out.

 

[Leo123]

The Sun always shines. Not its fault the Earth turns.

Battery storage: (an example of how nothing typically gets done in Texas)

Thank you Captain Obvious, however, since the Earth spins on its axis, half of it is without enough sunlight to power a solar array each day. But you knew that didn't you? Therefore you are only trolling. Battery storage is inadequate at this time.

 

[ding]

The Sun always shines. Not its fault the Earth turns.

Battery storage: (an example of how nothing typically gets done in Texas)

The government should just mandate it.

 

[Crick]

Thank you Captain Obvious, however, since the Earth spins on its axis, half of it is without enough sunlight to power a solar array each day. But you knew that didn't you? Therefore you are only trolling. Battery storage is inadequate at this time.

The potential for battery storage is significant. Vanadium redox battery - Wikipedia

 

[Blues Man]

Have you all learned your lesson? That fossil fueled power plants are simply unreliable?

that's a pretty rare occurrence and smacks of ineptitude