Simplifying the Tax System Is Easy in the Real World

[Weatherman2020]

A flat tax on gross income would raise taxes on millions of low income Americans, WITH JOBS.

For example, a person at minimum wage making 20,000 a year might now pay little or no income tax after deductions, exemptions, credits, etc.

A 10% flat tax on gross income would mean that person would pay $2000 in taxes.

It can't be done
With the wealthy paying at a 38% tax rate, any flat tax will automatically decrease their net taxes while increasing taxes on the working poor who now pay 12%

You are uninformed if you think Bill Gates pays 38% on his gross income.

I have a simple question about your flat tax proposal

Keeping revenue neutral (same amount of tax money coming in)

Pick a number between 0% tax rate and 38% tax rate where the wealthy do not end up paying less and the working poor do not end up paying more

Easy to calculate if you know how much people like Gates, Clinton and Obama paid last year in taxes. Then just take their gross and how much they paid in taxes.

This is your thread....you are supporting a flat tax

Just show me a flat percentage in which the rich do not pay less and the working poor do not end up paying more

What is your number?

Read the OP. S-L-O-W-L-Y if you need to.

 

[g5000]

It's simple math. If a rich person's tax rate drops from 39 percent (current rate) to 15 percent (flat tax), then the difference will have to be made up somewhere else.

Duh.

The middle class, being the larger group, will have to make up the difference.

Or else we will have even bigger deficits.

Simple math.

 

[Weatherman2020]

It's simple math. If a rich person's tax rate drops from 39 percent (current rate) to 15 percent (flat tax), then the difference will have to be made up somewhere else.

Duh.

The middle class, being the larger group, will have to make up the difference.

Again you think Gates pays 39% of his gross income in taxes. You're stuck on stupid.

 

[rightwinger]

You are obviously are not familiar with REALITY that such tax structure would mean huge tax cut for the rich and huge tax increase for the poor and low middle class and is ACTUALLY not politically viable in this country.

Your are idea is equal parts simple and stupid (as they usually are)

So you think Bill Gates pays his fair share today?

No, he has huge deductions and tax shelters.

Why do you not want the rich to pay their fair share?

Of course he has huge deductions - HE IS GIVING AWAY MOST OF HIS MONEY, why wouldn't that be a deduction?

Either way, we don't need to turn the whole tax system upside down and transfering tax burden from the rich onto those least able to afford it.

All we need to do is institute minimum tax on income of ANY kind, above certain point (lets say 1 million), see Buffet Rule.

A waitress paying $2,000 a year in taxes is going to be bearing the same burden as Bill Gates who will pay $20M a year in taxes.

Her taxes will go up and Bill Gates taxes will go down

Math hard for you? What percentage in Gates gross income makes his taxes go down?

Percentage is meaningless

Bottom line is what would the waitress pay in taxes before and after your tax proposal and what would Bill Gates pay before and after. Waitress will have less money in her pocket at the end of the year and Bill Gates will have more

The answer is obvious, that is why you won't say it

Any Flat Tax proposal will result in the wealthy paying less and the working poor paying more

 

[g5000]

There is nothing magical about the flat tax which prevents politicians from giving the rich all the same tax write-off they currently enjoy.

The rubes have been led to believe a flat tax has this magical property.

 

[g5000]

It's simple math. If a rich person's tax rate drops from 39 percent (current rate) to 15 percent (flat tax), then the difference will have to be made up somewhere else.

Duh.

The middle class, being the larger group, will have to make up the difference.

Again you think Gates pays 39% of his gross income in taxes. You're stuck on stupid.

No, you're an idiot for bleeving a flat tax has a magical property which takes away Bill Gates' current tax write-offs.

He would pay even LESS under a flat tax system than he does now.

 

[g5000]

The problem is tax expenditures, people.

Wise up. You're being sold a bill of goods.

Ronald Reagan purged a lot of tax expenditures with his tax reform in 1986. But ever since, our politicians have been paid big money to put more tax expenditures in the tax code than ever before.

To the tune of $1.4 TRILLION a year.

And THAT is the biggest reason why we have a $20 trillion debt.

 

[rightwinger]

There is nothing magical about the flat tax which prevents politicians from giving the rich all the same tax write-off they currently enjoy.

The rubes have been led to believe a flat tax has this magical property.

We have seen it all before

The exemptions available to the wealthy will slowly work their way back into the tax code while the exemptions given up by working Americans will be gone for good

 

[Weatherman2020]

It's simple math. If a rich person's tax rate drops from 39 percent (current rate) to 15 percent (flat tax), then the difference will have to be made up somewhere else.

Duh.

The middle class, being the larger group, will have to make up the difference.

Again you think Gates pays 39% of his gross income in taxes. You're stuck on stupid.

No, you're an idiot for bleeving a flat tax has a magical property which takes away Bill Gates' current tax write-offs.

He would pay even LESS under a flat tax system than he does now.

What percentage flat tax would allow Gates to pay less then? Prove your point.

 

[g5000]

There are three main reasons why I support replacing the income tax with the Fair Tax.

1) It is harder to hide a tax increase, and EVERYONE is affected by it. So if you want the government to give free puppies to hookers, then EVERYONE has to pay for it.

2) It is a tax on consumption rather than a tax on production (income tax).

3) It is more politically difficult to give a rich guy a Fair Tax exemption for buying a yacht.

 

[Weatherman2020]

There is nothing magical about the flat tax which prevents politicians from giving the rich all the same tax write-off they currently enjoy.

The rubes have been led to believe a flat tax has this magical property.

We have seen it all before

The exemptions available to the wealthy will slowly work their way back into the tax code while the exemptions given up by working Americans will be gone for good

And yet here you are arguing for the existing complex tax system.

 

[Weatherman2020]

There are three main reasons why I support replacing the income tax with the Fair Tax.

1) It is harder to hide a tax increase, and EVERYONE is affected by it. So if you want the government to give free puppies to hookers, then EVERYONE has to pay for it.

2) It is a tax on consumption rather than a tax on production (income tax).

3) It is more politically difficult to give a rich guy a Fair Tax exemption for buying a yacht.

So I'll just buy my yacht in Mexico.

 

[g5000]

It's simple math. If a rich person's tax rate drops from 39 percent (current rate) to 15 percent (flat tax), then the difference will have to be made up somewhere else.

Duh.

The middle class, being the larger group, will have to make up the difference.

Again you think Gates pays 39% of his gross income in taxes. You're stuck on stupid.

No, you're an idiot for bleeving a flat tax has a magical property which takes away Bill Gates' current tax write-offs.

He would pay even LESS under a flat tax system than he does now.

What percentage flat tax would allow Gates to pay less then? Prove your point.

Prove my point?

It's simple math, fool!

Imagine Gates has a 39 percent progressive income tax rate, and is allowed a million dollars in deductions before calculating how much tax he must pay.

Now imagine Gates has a 15 percent flat income tax rate, and is allowed a million dollars in deductions before calculating how much tax he must pay .

DUH!

 

[g5000]

There are three main reasons why I support replacing the income tax with the Fair Tax.

1) It is harder to hide a tax increase, and EVERYONE is affected by it. So if you want the government to give free puppies to hookers, then EVERYONE has to pay for it.

2) It is a tax on consumption rather than a tax on production (income tax).

3) It is more politically difficult to give a rich guy a Fair Tax exemption for buying a yacht.

So I'll just buy my yacht in Mexico.

You'll move your consumption to Mexico. The same way production has moved to Mexico under our current system.

 

[Weatherman2020]

It's simple math. If a rich person's tax rate drops from 39 percent (current rate) to 15 percent (flat tax), then the difference will have to be made up somewhere else.

Duh.

The middle class, being the larger group, will have to make up the difference.

Again you think Gates pays 39% of his gross income in taxes. You're stuck on stupid.

No, you're an idiot for bleeving a flat tax has a magical property which takes away Bill Gates' current tax write-offs.

He would pay even LESS under a flat tax system than he does now.

What percentage flat tax would allow Gates to pay less then? Prove your point.

Prove my point?

It's simple math, fool!

Imagine Gates has a 39 percent income tax rate, and is allowed a million dollars in deductions before calculating how much tax he must pay.

Now imagine Gates has a 15 percent income tax rate, and is allowed a million dollars in deductions before calculating how much tax he must pay .

DUH!

I'm using even numbers to simplify things.
Let's say Gates paid $1M in tax last year. He grossed $100M but paid that tax on $10M after deductions.

So a flat tax of 1% on his gross would have him paying the same exact taxes he did last year.

 

[Weatherman2020]

There are three main reasons why I support replacing the income tax with the Fair Tax.

1) It is harder to hide a tax increase, and EVERYONE is affected by it. So if you want the government to give free puppies to hookers, then EVERYONE has to pay for it.

2) It is a tax on consumption rather than a tax on production (income tax).

3) It is more politically difficult to give a rich guy a Fair Tax exemption for buying a yacht.

So I'll just buy my yacht in Mexico.

You'll move your consumption to Mexico. The same way production has moved to Mexico under our current system.

Yeah, and everyone who makes and sells boats in America will be out of work.

 

[g5000]

It's simple math. If a rich person's tax rate drops from 39 percent (current rate) to 15 percent (flat tax), then the difference will have to be made up somewhere else.

Duh.

The middle class, being the larger group, will have to make up the difference.

Again you think Gates pays 39% of his gross income in taxes. You're stuck on stupid.

No, you're an idiot for bleeving a flat tax has a magical property which takes away Bill Gates' current tax write-offs.

He would pay even LESS under a flat tax system than he does now.

What percentage flat tax would allow Gates to pay less then? Prove your point.

Prove my point?

It's simple math, fool!

Imagine Gates has a 39 percent income tax rate, and is allowed a million dollars in deductions before calculating how much tax he must pay.

Now imagine Gates has a 15 percent income tax rate, and is allowed a million dollars in deductions before calculating how much tax he must pay .

DUH!

I'm using even numbers to simplify things.
Let's say Gates paid $1M in tax last year. He grossed $100M but paid that tax on $10M after deductions.

So a flat tax of 1% on his gross would have him paying the same exact taxes he did last year.

See? You rubes ASSUME there would be no deductions in a flat tax.

You have deliberately been led to believe a flat tax has this magical property.

Now who do you suppose wants you to believe this giant hoax?

The people who would benefit the most from your innumeracy and gullibility.

 

[g5000]

There are three main reasons why I support replacing the income tax with the Fair Tax.

1) It is harder to hide a tax increase, and EVERYONE is affected by it. So if you want the government to give free puppies to hookers, then EVERYONE has to pay for it.

2) It is a tax on consumption rather than a tax on production (income tax).

3) It is more politically difficult to give a rich guy a Fair Tax exemption for buying a yacht.

So I'll just buy my yacht in Mexico.

You'll move your consumption to Mexico. The same way production has moved to Mexico under our current system.

Yeah, and everyone who makes and sells boats in America will be out of work.

How quickly you have forgotten the narrative that our manufacturing jobs have already gone overseas!

 

[Weatherman2020]

Again you think Gates pays 39% of his gross income in taxes. You're stuck on stupid.

No, you're an idiot for bleeving a flat tax has a magical property which takes away Bill Gates' current tax write-offs.

He would pay even LESS under a flat tax system than he does now.

What percentage flat tax would allow Gates to pay less then? Prove your point.

Prove my point?

It's simple math, fool!

Imagine Gates has a 39 percent income tax rate, and is allowed a million dollars in deductions before calculating how much tax he must pay.

Now imagine Gates has a 15 percent income tax rate, and is allowed a million dollars in deductions before calculating how much tax he must pay .

DUH!

I'm using even numbers to simplify things.
Let's say Gates paid $1M in tax last year. He grossed $100M but paid that tax on $10M after deductions.

So a flat tax of 1% on his gross would have him paying the same exact taxes he did last year.

See? You rubes ASSUME there would be no deductions in a flat tax.

You have deliberately been led to believe a flat tax has this magical property.

Now who do you suppose wants you to believe this giant hoax?

The people who would benefit the most from your innumeracy and gullibility.

The OP said no deductions.
Don't insert your own system into mine. Worst strawman possible.

 

[g5000]

If there was no tax on production, then things would get made here.

If you want to buy a yacht, you would have to buy it from where it is made.

HERE!