Shut down the un-vaccinated

[meaner gene]

There's a herd immunity threshold and it isn't 100%. No reason to create any requirement, as past that threshold it largely burns out.

/thread

Actually herd immunity doesn't mean that the spread stops, but that it drops down to a base level. It's like taking away 90% of the flammable material, but the remaining 10% can still burn.

 

[meaner gene]

View attachment 467179

Just the opposite. I said that vaccination will likely lift the current restrictions from those that are vaccinated, while they remain on those that are not.

 

[Oddball]

View attachment 467179

Just the opposite. I said that vaccination will likely lift the current restrictions from those that are vaccinated, while they remain on those that are not.

MYOB and keep your laws off my body, fascist pig.

 

[meaner gene]

Just the opposite. I said that vaccination will likely lift the current restrictions from those that are vaccinated, while they remain on those that are not.

MYOB and keep your laws off my body, fascist pig.

Have you ever gone to a court house? You know how you have to pass through a metal detector, and pass through security. Did you notice that the lawyers don't have to. They show a card at the door, and they completely bypass the security line.

That's what being vaccinated will be like.

 

[Fueri]

There's a herd immunity threshold and it isn't 100%. No reason to create any requirement, as past that threshold it largely burns out.

/thread

Actually herd immunity doesn't mean that the spread stops, but that it drops down to a base level. It's like taking away 90% of the flammable material, but the remaining 10% can still burn.

Yes, theoretically, that is exactly what it means. The goal is to drop R0 (R nought) under 1, which means each person, on average, infects less than one person, let's say 0.5.

With an R0 of 0.5 100 people infect 50. Those people infect 25. And so on.

The purpose of the vaccine is to give the virus less targets and drop this R0 value under 1, so that subsequent generations (n) of the disease have increasingly lower numbers. There is no 'base level'. That would be an R0 of 1, where each person spreads it to 1 more, keeping number of infections at a stable number.

This is math. Has been from the start and still is now.

Realistically we are not talking about an isolated population in considering the plan for the US. This is likely endemic, much like the flu. and comes back seasonally, or cyclically, as it will circle the globe keeping itself alive, so this isn't a matter of vaccination of 100% of Americans, as we'll reach herd immunity here fairly quickly at this point between those already exposed and those vaccinated. The issue will be that it continues to circulate and evolve in other, poorer, countries and then swings back through. The challenge will be the seasonal inoculation of enough people to stop another outbreak and/or rapid identification of variants that are resistant.

If we had any sense we'd be giving people antibody tests to see if they had the antibodies and then vaccinating those that didn't first That would be the fastest path to herd immunity at this point to burn this down as rapidly as possible, as the problem has been shortage of the vaccine as companies ramp up to meet this massive global demand, but that's not what we're doing, opting instead to just mass distribute, which will get the job done eventually, but at the expense of vaccinating millions that don't actually need it while not vaccinating millions that are still out there spreading it around until we can pump out enough vaccine to just cover everyone. Panic has ruled since March and it still very much is on many levels.

 

[Boomer61]

Vaccinated? People want to know.

Polling shows majority support for restrictions on the unvaccinated.

graphics.reuters.com

This should be a no brainer. Keep the un-vaccinated out of public life, away from the rest of us. Restrict them from all public places and events, and especially keep them off of airplanes. Let them enjoy their "freedoms" solely among themselves. They are a danger to normal, thinking Americans.

Maybe they should be put in 'camps' where they can be reeducated to 'normal' thinking.

 

[Boomer61]

This is coming whether you like it or not. You'll have to prove you're vaccinated to get on a plane, train, bus, any other long distance transportation. Your employer may even require you to get vaccinated before you can come back to work in an office. And that may be by the federal or state guidelines, not necessarily a business decision. Swallow your conspiracy theories and your righteous indignation about losing your liberties and get the shot. Sooner you do that, the sooner we can get on with life.

So you would be forcing vaccination on the 30 MILLION+ (extreme low ball estimate, could be over 100M) of us that have had the disease, survived and now have he antibodies in their system, we don't need the vaccine.

 

[krichton]

I had a conversation with a fellow single buddy of mine last night.
We both agreed that we wouldn't be interested in dating a woman who wasn't vaxed.
Totally appropriate question to ask!

Why not? If you're vaccinated you have nothing to fear from her.

Sorry, that isn't correct. There is much to fear from those who don't vax.
They are virtual petri dishes for variants which may not be covered by current vaccinations.

This is correct. If enough ppl don't vax then covid will continue to spread and potentially mutate into something worse, which has already happened! How will even the vaccinated be protected then? Not to mention, no one knows how long immunity lasts. The whole point of getting everyone vaccinated is so even if ppl don't get booster shots they'll still be fine due to herd immunity. Idiot anti vaxxers low key want to keep this thing going.

WRONG! People who are vaccinated can still catch covid, get sick from it and pass it along. The only thing the vaccine does is protect you from dying... maybe... for up to 6 months... maybe. So unvaccinated people do nothing to you.

Um.. if you're talking about the 5% chance the vaccine won't work and you still end up catching it then yes. If you're trying to say the vaccine doesn't work at all then I don't have time to listen to yet another conspiracy theory.

 

[Boomer61]

I had a conversation with a fellow single buddy of mine last night.
We both agreed that we wouldn't be interested in dating a woman who wasn't vaxed.
Totally appropriate question to ask!

Why not? If you're vaccinated you have nothing to fear from her.

Sorry, that isn't correct. There is much to fear from those who don't vax.
They are virtual petri dishes for variants which may not be covered by current vaccinations.

This is correct. If enough ppl don't vax then covid will continue to spread and potentially mutate into something worse, which has already happened! How will even the vaccinated be protected then? Not to mention, no one knows how long immunity lasts. The whole point of getting everyone vaccinated is so even if ppl don't get booster shots they'll still be fine due to herd immunity. Idiot anti vaxxers low key want to keep this thing going.

WRONG! People who are vaccinated can still catch covid, get sick from it and pass it along. The only thing the vaccine does is protect you from dying... maybe... for up to 6 months... maybe. So unvaccinated people do nothing to you.

Um.. if you're talking about the 5% chance the vaccine won't work and you still end up catching it then yes. If you're trying to say the vaccine doesn't work at all then I don't have time to listen to yet another conspiracy theory.

Wait wait wait, where is this 'something worse' mutation that has happened? There is 0 scientific evidence of that and lets remember that 99% of the time, each mutation WEAKENS the virus. Stop listening to the fearmongering and research actual science not being used by msm or the Biden admin.

 

[meaner gene]

With an R0 of 0.5 100 people infect 50. Those people infect 25. And so on.

The purpose of the vaccine is to give the virus less targets and drop this R0 value under 1, so that subsequent generations (n) of the disease have increasingly lower numbers. There is no 'base level'. That would be an R0 of 1, where each person spreads it to 1 more, keeping number of infections at a stable number.

This is math. Has been from the start and still is now.

The problem with the math, is it's based on "averages", which may be different than what human behavior would dictate. An example is what happens when people of like mind (and thus like refusal to get vaccinated) congregate together. They might have an R0 of 1.4, while the vaccinated group has an R0 of 0.1.

 

[meaner gene]

So you would be forcing vaccination on the 30 MILLION+ (extreme low ball estimate, could be over 100M) of us that have had the disease, survived and now have he antibodies in their system, we don't need the vaccine.

Actually it's unknown how long the protection lasts, either for those who recovered, or for those vaccinated. It could be six years, or it could be six months.

 

[meaner gene]

Wait wait wait, where is this 'something worse' mutation that has happened? There is 0 scientific evidence of that and lets remember that 99% of the time, each mutation WEAKENS the virus. Stop listening to the fearmongering and research actual science not being used by msm or the Biden admin.

Actually each mutation on average may weaken the virus, but the mutations that make it stronger, also become dominant (survival of the fittest).
This is why it's important to control the number of hosts the coronavirus inhabits, because the more people infected, the higher the number of mutations.

 

[Fueri]

With an R0 of 0.5 100 people infect 50. Those people infect 25. And so on.

The purpose of the vaccine is to give the virus less targets and drop this R0 value under 1, so that subsequent generations (n) of the disease have increasingly lower numbers. There is no 'base level'. That would be an R0 of 1, where each person spreads it to 1 more, keeping number of infections at a stable number.

This is math. Has been from the start and still is now.

The problem with the math, is it's based on "averages", which may be different than what human behavior would dictate. An example is what happens when people of like mind (and thus like refusal to get vaccinated) congregate together. They might have an R0 of 1.4, while the vaccinated group has an R0 of 0.1.

It is based on aggregate averages of a population of about 330 million. Random variances of activity are to be expected and don't change the overall R0 value of, say, New York City because some people congregate.

Can R0 of a one group be different from another? Sure. R0 values will vary across regions as well for a while.

Doesn't change a thing in the big picture.

 

[meaner gene]

It is based on aggregate averages of a population of about 330 million. Random variances of activity are to be expected and don't change the overall R0 value of, say, New York City because some people congregate.

Can R0 of a one group be different from another? Sure. R0 values will vary across regions as well for a while.

Doesn't change a thing in the big picture.

Have you ever drilled a well? Dug a fence post? Drilled into concrete. You quickly learn that "average" isn't what gets the job done. When you hit something hard, it's a game changer.

The same if you allow the coronavirus to flourish in small isolated pockets, that act like petri dishes. Because the people in those isolated pockets don't remain there.

 

[whitehall]

Government by polling data? Anyone notice the lack of leadership by that guy in the black face mask who wanders around the White House muttering to himself? What about the people who have had the disease and recovered and apparently have a natural immunity? Are (mostly) lefties planning to send them to the gulag along with the "un-vaccinated"?

 

[DrLove]

I had a conversation with a fellow single buddy of mine last night.
We both agreed that we wouldn't be interested in dating a woman who wasn't vaxed.
Totally appropriate question to ask!

Why not? If you're vaccinated you have nothing to fear from her.

Sorry, that isn't correct. There is much to fear from those who don't vax.
They are virtual petri dishes for variants which may not be covered by current vaccinations.

This is correct. If enough ppl don't vax then covid will continue to spread and potentially mutate into something worse, which has already happened! How will even the vaccinated be protected then? Not to mention, no one knows how long immunity lasts. The whole point of getting everyone vaccinated is so even if ppl don't get booster shots they'll still be fine due to herd immunity. Idiot anti vaxxers low key want to keep this thing going.

WRONG! People who are vaccinated can still catch covid, get sick from it and pass it along. The only thing the vaccine does is protect you from dying... maybe... for up to 6 months... maybe. So unvaccinated people do nothing to you.

What ever you say Dr Fauci MrPillow

 

[DrLove]

Um.. if you're talking about the 5% chance the vaccine won't work and you still end up catching it then yes. If you're trying to say the vaccine doesn't work at all then I don't have time to listen to yet another conspiracy theory.

Wait wait wait, where is this 'something worse' mutation that has happened? There is 0 scientific evidence of that and lets remember that 99% of the time, each mutation WEAKENS the virus. Stop listening to the fearmongering and research actual science not being used by msm or the Biden admin.

Are you getting your information from Dr Phil or Scott Atlas? MrPillow?? For the love of God, stop spreading LIES!

 

[Fueri]

It is based on aggregate averages of a population of about 330 million. Random variances of activity are to be expected and don't change the overall R0 value of, say, New York City because some people congregate.

Can R0 of a one group be different from another? Sure. R0 values will vary across regions as well for a while.

Doesn't change a thing in the big picture.

Have you ever drilled a well? Dug a fence post? Drilled into concrete. You quickly learn that "average" isn't what gets the job done. When you hit something hard, it's a game changer.

The same if you allow the coronavirus to flourish in small isolated pockets, that act like petri dishes. Because the people in those isolated pockets don't remain there.

People circulate constantly through cities and regions, and globally for that matter.

People coming together in a group temporarily isn't a pocket, it's an isolated occurrence. You are envisioning something that doesn't hold with the overall R0 of a region or populace, as that value takes into account all of those potential variances as part of the calculation.

 

[Boomer61]

Wait wait wait, where is this 'something worse' mutation that has happened? There is 0 scientific evidence of that and lets remember that 99% of the time, each mutation WEAKENS the virus. Stop listening to the fearmongering and research actual science not being used by msm or the Biden admin.

Actually each mutation on average may weaken the virus, but the mutations that make it stronger, also become dominant (survival of the fittest).
This is why it's important to control the number of hosts the coronavirus inhabits, because the more people infected, the higher the number of mutations.

Was looking for the 'something worse' mutation that has happened already. The more mutations to a virus the weaker it gets, that's a given while it's extremely rare to get a mutation that is more deadly and more contagious.

 

[Boomer61]

Um.. if you're talking about the 5% chance the vaccine won't work and you still end up catching it then yes. If you're trying to say the vaccine doesn't work at all then I don't have time to listen to yet another conspiracy theory.

Wait wait wait, where is this 'something worse' mutation that has happened? There is 0 scientific evidence of that and lets remember that 99% of the time, each mutation WEAKENS the virus. Stop listening to the fearmongering and research actual science not being used by msm or the Biden admin.

Are you getting your information from Dr Phil or Scott Atlas? MrPillow?? For the love of God, stop spreading LIES!

So show me the 'something worse' mutation that has happened backed up with facts, otherwise for the love of God, stop spreading lies.