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Stuck on crippled liner, eating Spam, with no Internet service, cruise passengers are towed to U.S. | cleveland.com
I am curious if the tort reformers around here think the passengers of this ship have a right to sue, and if so, should they exercise it?
I'm betting the answer from many will be "no", in which case I have a final question: are there ANY torts (bad acts or negligent acts that cause harm) you feel a plaintiff should sue over?
I wonder if they signed a release before they boarded.
Would you get on if a release was demanded of you before boarding?
A split crankcase? Yikes. And Im sure these arent truck diesels. I guess gushing diesel and oil was ignited by sparks or something. I know the crankcase void is usually isolated from the fuel system but probably the crankshaft went bad and cracked the whole thing.
A crankshaft failure is isolated from the fuel injection system. The fire would have been lubricating oil and packing grease igniting and burning off.
I had this happen with one of my machines, and it took 15 minutes to burn off. I would imagine one of these engines would have considerably more oil and grease, and would have burned for a longer time. The engine crew would have evacuated, and waited for the suppression systems to handle it. By the time it was put out, repair in place would not be possible due to fire damage, and a major removal and rebuild would be the only option.
Just wondering how the fire would happen as lube oil and diesel, while flammable are kinda hard to ignite. My concept would be the shaft failed, ripping the pistions out of the block, and that would lead to whatever fuel is in the block exiting with the oil. I did miss the fact that the fuel injection would stop once the engine fell apart, on that I agree.
Will have to wait until the report I guess.
And just how in the fuck do you know that "Carnival bought a poorly designed boat"?I dun know what you do for a living Mini, but I daresay if I described all the members of your profession as "scum" you'd be offended. This cruise line bought a poorly-designed boat and offered berths for sale to the public, who is in no way equipped to measure a boat's safety and trusted the corporation to have done right by its customers. That trust has been abused. People have suffered -- at a minimum, because they did not get what they bargained for and because they have been subjected to extremely harsh conditions.
It is annoying and dishonest to suggest I hope a passenger dies, when I was pointing out they are at risk due to Carnival's failures. I hope everyone makes it back to shore safely, just as I am sure you do. The difference between you and I seems to be, I crave Justice while you prefer the American public underwrite the total costs of Big Business's fuck ups which cause injuries to us, regardless of how patently obvious it may be that Big Business is at fault.
BTW, it's a SHIP, not a boat.
Seriously, do you EVER think before you speak?
WJ, this is an adult convo. I have been advocating for lawsuits on this thread partially because no one else is, and if all of us agrees there is no debate.
Kindly take your personal animosity towards me and shove it up your fakey-christian ass. If anyone besides you cares that you got spanked by me on a religion thread, perchance you can solicit support from them in a flame thread. This ain't one -- it was written and has been posted to so people can discuss tort law issues, not your personal needs for a tissue.
They're being offered a refund, and a free trip. Carnival would be idiots not to demand a signed release in exchange for that.
So, why would you be advocating for lawsuits when you have zero facts and only (big surprise here) ASSUMPTIONS?And just how in the fuck do you know that "Carnival bought a poorly designed boat"?I dun know what you do for a living Mini, but I daresay if I described all the members of your profession as "scum" you'd be offended. This cruise line bought a poorly-designed boat and offered berths for sale to the public, who is in no way equipped to measure a boat's safety and trusted the corporation to have done right by its customers. That trust has been abused. People have suffered -- at a minimum, because they did not get what they bargained for and because they have been subjected to extremely harsh conditions.
It is annoying and dishonest to suggest I hope a passenger dies, when I was pointing out they are at risk due to Carnival's failures. I hope everyone makes it back to shore safely, just as I am sure you do. The difference between you and I seems to be, I crave Justice while you prefer the American public underwrite the total costs of Big Business's fuck ups which cause injuries to us, regardless of how patently obvious it may be that Big Business is at fault.
BTW, it's a SHIP, not a boat.
Seriously, do you EVER think before you speak?
WJ, this is an adult convo. I have been advocating for lawsuits on this thread partially because no one else is, and if all of us agrees there is no debate.
Kindly take your personal animosity towards me and shove it up your fakey-christian ass. If anyone besides you cares that you got spanked by me on a religion thread, perchance you can solicit support from them in a flame thread. This ain't one -- it was written and has been posted to so people can discuss tort law issues, not your personal needs for a tissue.
So, why would you be advocating for lawsuits when you have zero facts and only (big surprise here) ASSUMPTIONS?And just how in the fuck do you know that "Carnival bought a poorly designed boat"?
BTW, it's a SHIP, not a boat.
Seriously, do you EVER think before you speak?
WJ, this is an adult convo. I have been advocating for lawsuits on this thread partially because no one else is, and if all of us agrees there is no debate.
Kindly take your personal animosity towards me and shove it up your fakey-christian ass. If anyone besides you cares that you got spanked by me on a religion thread, perchance you can solicit support from them in a flame thread. This ain't one -- it was written and has been posted to so people can discuss tort law issues, not your personal needs for a tissue.
BTW, You coudn't spank a donkeys ass if it was a foot in front of your face. That's been proven repeatedly up here, by you, time and time again!
So, why would you be advocating for lawsuits when you have zero facts and only (big surprise here) ASSUMPTIONS?WJ, this is an adult convo. I have been advocating for lawsuits on this thread partially because no one else is, and if all of us agrees there is no debate.
Kindly take your personal animosity towards me and shove it up your fakey-christian ass. If anyone besides you cares that you got spanked by me on a religion thread, perchance you can solicit support from them in a flame thread. This ain't one -- it was written and has been posted to so people can discuss tort law issues, not your personal needs for a tissue.
BTW, You coudn't spank a donkeys ass if it was a foot in front of your face. That's been proven repeatedly up here, by you, time and time again!
And yet, spanked you be WJ. Yanno, grown ups can disagree on a subject without making the disagreement personal.
Just a thought.
BTW, do you have an opinion on the topic or are you just posting here to try and flame me?
Yeah I have an opinion on the subject:So, why would you be advocating for lawsuits when you have zero facts and only (big surprise here) ASSUMPTIONS?WJ, this is an adult convo. I have been advocating for lawsuits on this thread partially because no one else is, and if all of us agrees there is no debate.
Kindly take your personal animosity towards me and shove it up your fakey-christian ass. If anyone besides you cares that you got spanked by me on a religion thread, perchance you can solicit support from them in a flame thread. This ain't one -- it was written and has been posted to so people can discuss tort law issues, not your personal needs for a tissue.
BTW, You coudn't spank a donkeys ass if it was a foot in front of your face. That's been proven repeatedly up here, by you, time and time again!
And yet, spanked you be WJ. Yanno, grown ups can disagree on a subject without making the disagreement personal.
Just a thought.
BTW, do you have an opinion on the topic or are you just posting here to try and flame me?
Yeah I have an opinion on the subject:So, why would you be advocating for lawsuits when you have zero facts and only (big surprise here) ASSUMPTIONS?
BTW, You coudn't spank a donkeys ass if it was a foot in front of your face. That's been proven repeatedly up here, by you, time and time again!
And yet, spanked you be WJ. Yanno, grown ups can disagree on a subject without making the disagreement personal.
Just a thought.
BTW, do you have an opinion on the topic or are you just posting here to try and flame me?
Advocating for lawsuits when one has no facts is friggin' ludicrous. It screams of crooked lawyering.......Baselessy spouting off that Carnival somehow did something wrong, without facts, is friggin' ludicrous......Stating that Carnival bought a faulty SHIP wthout facts is friggin' ludicrous..........The REAL fact is, you're all about assumptions. You certainly don't deal in facts.
She deals in far left lunacy.....Corporations are evil....Corporations should be made to pay regardeless of FACTS....Regardless if they did nothing wrong....Regardless if they offered up compensation that includes future travel, a full refund, and replacement airline travel and hotel accomodations.Yeah I have an opinion on the subject:And yet, spanked you be WJ. Yanno, grown ups can disagree on a subject without making the disagreement personal.
Just a thought.
BTW, do you have an opinion on the topic or are you just posting here to try and flame me?
Advocating for lawsuits when one has no facts is friggin' ludicrous. It screams of crooked lawyering.......Baselessy spouting off that Carnival somehow did something wrong, without facts, is friggin' ludicrous......Stating that Carnival bought a faulty SHIP wthout facts is friggin' ludicrous..........The REAL fact is, you're all about assumptions. You certainly don't deal in facts.
Madeline doesn't deal in reality AT ALL
Stuck on crippled liner, eating Spam, with no Internet service, cruise passengers are towed to U.S. | cleveland.com
I am curious if the tort reformers around here think the passengers of this ship have a right to sue, and if so, should they exercise it?
I'm betting the answer from many will be "no", in which case I have a final question: are there ANY torts (bad acts or negligent acts that cause harm) you feel a plaintiff should sue over?
Why sue? If Carnival has offered a full refund and free trip in the future, why do you or for that matter anyone think the passengers should line the pockets of lawyers? And we wonder why we pay so much for everything......
Madeline said:The passengers are already entitled to a refund, as they did not get what they paid for. An offer of a free cruise in future will not make most of them whole -- they may not wish to take another cruise, or they may not be able to reassemble the family they had with them, or they may not be able to get time off work.
Madeline said:They had no toilets at first. They still have not hot water. They've been fed spam all this time. Is their suffering worth nothing to you?
Madeline said:As for "driving up costs", what if no one sues and this company makes no effort to correct its safety procedures? What if this happens again and next time, someone dies?
Madeline said:Tort law holds a common carrier to the highest possible standard, because you are essentially entrusting your well-being to them completely.
No one suggested that we close all the court houses or that we bar a citizen the right to sue.....Madeline said:I wonder, GWV5903, if you could explain to me a situation where you think it would be best to sue or should we just close all the courthouses and allow big corporations to mistreat us however they wish in a hope that "prices will not go up"?
"Brass ring"? So IYO, only greedy people sue? What about those who have been injured and cannot be healed. I know this would traumatize me. Have you stopped to consider what these passengers are going through? What happens to people with diabetes, whose insulin could not be kept cool? Without electricity, what medical care is possible?
I am just amazed at the hostility towards your neighbor and shameless corporate worship that seems to motivate those of you who are hostile to tort law suits. Apparently IYO, the corporations should NEVER be held responsible and a good American just absorbs the consequences of their greed, incompetence or error, no matter how badly he may be injured?
And how many have died/been injured as a result?
Are you speculating, salivating for a death so someone will have a real payday?
Death or not, there will be no lawsuits from this. That is because Carnival is stepping up and assuming responsibility. If/when someone dies from a lack of insulin, Carnival will mediate and pay. Sure, some lawyer scum is going to make a buck off of it, most probably more than what the true damages are, but your salivating desire to see legal carnage come from this isn't going to happen. No matter how much you wish the "evil corporation" responsible would act like Torquemada, they have done nothing but the right thing from the start, and have shown nothing but a willingness to make this right by their customers.
Sure, lawyers will file suits.
Carnival is smarter than the lawyers (aren't we all?) so they will settle without a verdict.
I dun know what you do for a living Mini, but I daresay if I described all the members of your profession as "scum" you'd be offended. This cruise line bought a poorly-designed boat and offered berths for sale to the public, who is in no way equipped to measure a boat's safety and trusted the corporation to have done right by its customers. That trust has been abused. People have suffered -- at a minimum, because they did not get what they bargained for and because they have been subjected to extremely harsh conditions.
It is annoying and dishonest to suggest I hope a passenger dies, when I was pointing out they are at risk due to Carnival's failures. I hope everyone makes it back to shore safely, just as I am sure you do. The difference between you and I seems to be, I crave Justice while you prefer the American public underwrite the total costs of Big Business's fuck ups which cause injuries to us, regardless of how patently obvious it may be that Big Business is at fault.
And how many have died/been injured as a result?
Are you speculating, salivating for a death so someone will have a real payday?
Death or not, there will be no lawsuits from this. That is because Carnival is stepping up and assuming responsibility. If/when someone dies from a lack of insulin, Carnival will mediate and pay. Sure, some lawyer scum is going to make a buck off of it, most probably more than what the true damages are, but your salivating desire to see legal carnage come from this isn't going to happen. No matter how much you wish the "evil corporation" responsible would act like Torquemada, they have done nothing but the right thing from the start, and have shown nothing but a willingness to make this right by their customers.
Sure, lawyers will file suits.
Carnival is smarter than the lawyers (aren't we all?) so they will settle without a verdict.
I dun know what you do for a living Mini, but I daresay if I described all the members of your profession as "scum" you'd be offended. This cruise line bought a poorly-designed boat and offered berths for sale to the public, who is in no way equipped to measure a boat's safety and trusted the corporation to have done right by its customers. That trust has been abused. People have suffered -- at a minimum, because they did not get what they bargained for and because they have been subjected to extremely harsh conditions.
It is annoying and dishonest to suggest I hope a passenger dies, when I was pointing out they are at risk due to Carnival's failures. I hope everyone makes it back to shore safely, just as I am sure you do. The difference between you and I seems to be, I crave Justice while you prefer the American public underwrite the total costs of Big Business's fuck ups which cause injuries to us, regardless of how patently obvious it may be that Big Business is at fault.
Madeline, I think you're being slightly unfair. I don't think the ship was "poorly-designed". They are using time tested equipment and systems that have worked well over the years.
Even the best machines break, no matter how old they are. You can have an engine perform without breakdowns for 30 years, or you can have one break after 30 minutes. It's all just the luck of the draw.
Carnival is doing the best they can under the circumstances. If someone was in imminent danger of losing their life or health, I'm sure they would helicopter them to the nearest hospital. It's not in their best interests to have someone die on one of their ships if they can prevent it. And a chopper ride is cheaper than a wrongful death suit.
And I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone who feels they are suffering by eating Spam. My family ate a lot of it for a long period of time when my parents went thru a rough patch. If someone expects me to feel sorry for them because they had to eat it for a couple of days, they have a long wait to hear my sympathies.
I dun know what you do for a living Mini, but I daresay if I described all the members of your profession as "scum" you'd be offended. This cruise line bought a poorly-designed boat and offered berths for sale to the public, who is in no way equipped to measure a boat's safety and trusted the corporation to have done right by its customers. That trust has been abused. People have suffered -- at a minimum, because they did not get what they bargained for and because they have been subjected to extremely harsh conditions.
It is annoying and dishonest to suggest I hope a passenger dies, when I was pointing out they are at risk due to Carnival's failures. I hope everyone makes it back to shore safely, just as I am sure you do. The difference between you and I seems to be, I crave Justice while you prefer the American public underwrite the total costs of Big Business's fuck ups which cause injuries to us, regardless of how patently obvious it may be that Big Business is at fault.
Madeline, I think you're being slightly unfair. I don't think the ship was "poorly-designed". They are using time tested equipment and systems that have worked well over the years.
Even the best machines break, no matter how old they are. You can have an engine perform without breakdowns for 30 years, or you can have one break after 30 minutes. It's all just the luck of the draw.
Carnival is doing the best they can under the circumstances. If someone was in imminent danger of losing their life or health, I'm sure they would helicopter them to the nearest hospital. It's not in their best interests to have someone die on one of their ships if they can prevent it. And a chopper ride is cheaper than a wrongful death suit.
And I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone who feels they are suffering by eating Spam. My family ate a lot of it for a long period of time when my parents went thru a rough patch. If someone expects me to feel sorry for them because they had to eat it for a couple of days, they have a long wait to hear my sympathies.
Carnival Cruise Lines does have a long history of problems throughout the years:
Illness Outbreaks by Carnival
Carnival Corporation Fines and Violations
In view of their other failings, it is quite possible they don't properly maintain the mechanical equipment.
I think there is enough negative information about this line, that people would be well-advised to avoid dealing with them at all.
SAN DIEGO -- The nearly 4,500 passengers and crew of the Carnival Splendor have no air conditioning or hot water. Running low on food, they have to eat canned crab meat and Spam dropped in by helicopters. And it will be a long, slow ride before they're home.
What began as a seven-day cruise to the picturesque Mexican Riviera stopped around sunrise Monday when an engine-room fire cut power to the 952-foot vessel and set it adrift off Mexico's Pacific coast.
The 3,299 passengers and 1,167 crew members were not hurt, and the fire was put out in the generator's compartment, but the ship had no air conditioning, hot water, cell phone or Internet service.
After the fire, passengers were first asked to move from their cabins to the ship's upper deck, but eventually allowed to go back. The ship's auxiliary power allowed for toilets and cold running water.
Bottled water and cold food were provided, the company said.
The ship began moving again Tuesday night after the first of several Mexican tugboats en route to the stricken liner began pulling it toward San Diego, where it was expected to arrive Thursday night, Carnival Cruise Lines said in a statement.
Stuck on crippled liner, eating Spam, with no Internet service, cruise passengers are towed to U.S. | cleveland.com
I am curious if the tort reformers around here think the passengers of this ship have a right to sue, and if so, should they exercise it?
I'm betting the answer from many will be "no", in which case I have a final question: are there ANY torts (bad acts or negligent acts that cause harm) you feel a plaintiff should sue over?
SAN DIEGO -- The nearly 4,500 passengers and crew of the Carnival Splendor have no air conditioning or hot water. Running low on food, they have to eat canned crab meat and Spam dropped in by helicopters. And it will be a long, slow ride before they're home.
What began as a seven-day cruise to the picturesque Mexican Riviera stopped around sunrise Monday when an engine-room fire cut power to the 952-foot vessel and set it adrift off Mexico's Pacific coast.
The 3,299 passengers and 1,167 crew members were not hurt, and the fire was put out in the generator's compartment, but the ship had no air conditioning, hot water, cell phone or Internet service.
After the fire, passengers were first asked to move from their cabins to the ship's upper deck, but eventually allowed to go back. The ship's auxiliary power allowed for toilets and cold running water.
Bottled water and cold food were provided, the company said.
The ship began moving again Tuesday night after the first of several Mexican tugboats en route to the stricken liner began pulling it toward San Diego, where it was expected to arrive Thursday night, Carnival Cruise Lines said in a statement.
Stuck on crippled liner, eating Spam, with no Internet service, cruise passengers are towed to U.S. | cleveland.com
I am curious if the tort reformers around here think the passengers of this ship have a right to sue, and if so, should they exercise it?
I'm betting the answer from many will be "no", in which case I have a final question: are there ANY torts (bad acts or negligent acts that cause harm) you feel a plaintiff should sue over?
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_eYSuPKP3Y[/ame]
Madeline, I think you're being slightly unfair. I don't think the ship was "poorly-designed". They are using time tested equipment and systems that have worked well over the years.
Even the best machines break, no matter how old they are. You can have an engine perform without breakdowns for 30 years, or you can have one break after 30 minutes. It's all just the luck of the draw.
Carnival is doing the best they can under the circumstances. If someone was in imminent danger of losing their life or health, I'm sure they would helicopter them to the nearest hospital. It's not in their best interests to have someone die on one of their ships if they can prevent it. And a chopper ride is cheaper than a wrongful death suit.
And I have a hard time feeling sorry for someone who feels they are suffering by eating Spam. My family ate a lot of it for a long period of time when my parents went thru a rough patch. If someone expects me to feel sorry for them because they had to eat it for a couple of days, they have a long wait to hear my sympathies.
Carnival Cruise Lines does have a long history of problems throughout the years:
Illness Outbreaks by Carnival
Carnival Corporation Fines and Violations
In view of their other failings, it is quite possible they don't properly maintain the mechanical equipment.
I think there is enough negative information about this line, that people would be well-advised to avoid dealing with them at all.
I read both links, and the only mechanical issue I found was a generator problem that issued some soot into the atmosphere. Again, you're not showing any proof of the "poorly-designed" argument.
And how is Carnival, or any other line, responsible for illness outbreaks? Do they require all passengers and crew to report for comprehensive physicals before every cruise?
Carnival Cruise Lines does have a long history of problems throughout the years:
Illness Outbreaks by Carnival
Carnival Corporation Fines and Violations
In view of their other failings, it is quite possible they don't properly maintain the mechanical equipment.
I think there is enough negative information about this line, that people would be well-advised to avoid dealing with them at all.
I read both links, and the only mechanical issue I found was a generator problem that issued some soot into the atmosphere. Again, you're not showing any proof of the "poorly-designed" argument.
And how is Carnival, or any other line, responsible for illness outbreaks? Do they require all passengers and crew to report for comprehensive physicals before every cruise?
Well I just heard on the news that this is the fifth fire this year for Carnival. So perhaps they have been lax in general maintenance and upkeep?
As far as illness outbreaks--yes, they are the problem. Either their food sanitation practices are lacking, their ventilation systems need to be thoroughly cleaned and sanitized, and the entire ships need a thorough cleaning and sanitation. When a company has that many incidents of widespread illnesses throughout a voyage, if they're not doing anything to change the problem, I wouldn't consider traveling with them.
Carnival Cruise Lines does have a long history of problems throughout the years:
Illness Outbreaks by Carnival
Carnival Corporation Fines and Violations
In view of their other failings, it is quite possible they don't properly maintain the mechanical equipment.
I think there is enough negative information about this line, that people would be well-advised to avoid dealing with them at all.
I read both links, and the only mechanical issue I found was a generator problem that issued some soot into the atmosphere. Again, you're not showing any proof of the "poorly-designed" argument.
And how is Carnival, or any other line, responsible for illness outbreaks? Do they require all passengers and crew to report for comprehensive physicals before every cruise?
Well I just heard on the news that this is the fifth fire this year for Carnival. So perhaps they have been lax in general maintenance and upkeep?
As far as illness outbreaks--yes, they are the problem. Either their food sanitation practices are lacking, their ventilation systems need to be thoroughly cleaned and sanitized, and the entire ships need a thorough cleaning and sanitation. When a company has that many incidents of widespread illnesses throughout a voyage, if they're not doing anything to change the problem, I wouldn't consider traveling with them.
So, the fact that many of the countries those ships visit, who's sanitation practices are virtually zero, have nothing to do with the outbreaks, and that the passengers couldn't have possibly brought those illnesses or viruses back onto the ships after port o' call?Carnival Cruise Lines does have a long history of problems throughout the years:
Illness Outbreaks by Carnival
Carnival Corporation Fines and Violations
In view of their other failings, it is quite possible they don't properly maintain the mechanical equipment.
I think there is enough negative information about this line, that people would be well-advised to avoid dealing with them at all.
I read both links, and the only mechanical issue I found was a generator problem that issued some soot into the atmosphere. Again, you're not showing any proof of the "poorly-designed" argument.
And how is Carnival, or any other line, responsible for illness outbreaks? Do they require all passengers and crew to report for comprehensive physicals before every cruise?
Well I just heard on the news that this is the fifth fire this year for Carnival. So perhaps they have been lax in general maintenance and upkeep?
As far as illness outbreaks--yes, they are the problem. Either their food sanitation practices are lacking, their ventilation systems need to be thoroughly cleaned and sanitized, and the entire ships need a thorough cleaning and sanitation. When a company has that many incidents of widespread illnesses throughout a voyage, if they're not doing anything to change the problem, I wouldn't consider traveling with them.
