Should the US go back to the gold standard??

[Killuminati]

Should the US go back to backing its money by gold or silver, and kill the fractional banking that is going on now? What are the ups and downs on having a gold and silver standard?? Plz tell me the pros and cons.

 

[jodylee]

Should the US go back to backing its money by gold or silver, and kill the fractional banking that is going on now? What are the ups and downs on having a gold and silver standard?? Plz tell me the pros and cons.

this would help, but will never happen, unless you over throw the ellite.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The Case for Genuine Gold Dollar

 

[Toro]

No.

First, there isn't enough gold in the world.

Second, the world's money supply should not be dependent on the technical advances and profitability of mining companies, which are amongst the worst run companies in the world.

 

[editec]

Well, going onto a gold standard would insure that there wasn't an ounce of Gold in the USA that's for damned sure.

AFter all, our imbalace of trade would means that the USA would have to ship GOLD to the creditor nations every year to pay for our trade imbalance.

But going on a gold standard surely would end monetary driven inflation, on that we can agree.

Of course, monetary DEflation is the inevitable outcome of having a gold standard in a growing economy, so that would wreck our economy, too.

But hey, since some of you really think our 21st economy can be adaquately described by a 18th century philosopher name Adam Smith, (a man who never studied economics because that dicipline didn't exist, yet) and a man who was discussing the economic systems of a world that was mostly an agrarian economy, I say go for it, Goldbugs.

You Goldbugs have some of the brightest minds of your century...if your century is the 18th century, I mean.

 

[sealybobo]

No.

First, there isn't enough gold in the world.

Second, the world's money supply should not be dependent on the technical advances and profitability of mining companies, which are amongst the worst run companies in the world.

Who are you? A rich banker who owns the Federal Reserve? Are you an IRS agent?

The system we have now is fucked up!

I'm going to continue reminding people like you just how blind and brainwashed you are. Not your fault. 90% of Americans are just like you.

But it is time to wake up.

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”

– Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Treasury Secretary Albert Gallatin (1802)

So you were warned.

But then the Corporate media's bullshitted/bribed our grandparents into turning over America to the bankers.

And even the President at the time was shamed that it happened on his watch.

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence

And why don't you take people like this seriously?

Mayer Amschel Rothschild, quote
Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws.

So the world banks own America and most of the rest of the world. We can only take America back if you wake up. We need you. And yet you are a good Republican or Good Democrat. Stop it.

 

[editec]

Sealy....one can oppose the GOLD STANDARD and still not like the FED as currently designed.

The gold standard leads to DEFLATION in an expanding economy do you understand that?

The GOLD standard simply cannot work to the benefit of the people, my friend.

Read about the POPULISTS of the 19th century and you will begin to understand why a GOLD STANDARD is a terrible idea.

 

[sealybobo]

Sealy....one can oppose the GOLD STANDARD and still not like the FED as currently designed.

The gold standard leads to DEFLATION in an expanding economy do you understand that?

The GOLD standard simply cannot work to the benefit of the people, my friend.

Read about the POPULISTS of the 19th century and you will begin to understand why a GOLD STANDARD is a terrible idea.

You may be right. And for sure I don't know enough to be opinionated about it.

I just think it would be a great idea that if we have a trillion dollars out in circulation, that we should also have a trillion dollars in gold backing it up.

But that may no be possible in today's numbers.

I won't argue with you. You're a pretty bright person.

 

[editec]

It's pretty simple to understand, really, Sealy and I know you can understand it.

There is essantially a static amount of gold in the world.

But there is an usually rapidly growing amount of goods and services being produced.

Now you know enough about supply/demand to realize that:

1. if the amount of money stays static,

2. while the amount goods and services actually produced is rising,

3. then the prices of goods and services will have to go DOWN because there will be the same amount of money chasing those ever increasing amounts of goods and services.

4. In other words in a GOLD BACKED CURRENCY economy in an increasingly productive society, the prices of goods and services MUST go down.

And since the consumer knows that the prices of things is going down tomorrow, they put off purchasing.

Societies with growing populations NEED to have an increasing amount of good and services which comes from a vibrant (and balanced) economic system..



That doesn't mean that I LIKE the way our FED works

But it does mean that I believe that we need SOMETHING LIKE A FED to keep the balance between the amount of money in circulation and the amount of good and services that are being produced.

The gold standard might work very well in a scarcity driven economy (like the mideval one) but it sucks wind in a PLENTY0BASED CONSUMER economy like we have now thanks to technology, industrialization and a growing population.

 

[Toro]

And why don't you take people like this seriously?

It is not them whom I do not take seriously. It is people who do not understand economics and finance but choose to wallow in silly conspiracy theories whom I do not take seriously.

There is a cogent argument for going back to the gold standard, but you aren't making it.

The supply of money should grow at the rate of the economy. If it does not, then interest rates will be artificially too high, restricting economic growth for reasons that are unnecessary.

During the Great Depression, the Fed raised interest rates from 1.5% to 3.5% in 1931 to stem the flow of gold outside the US. Can you imagine the Fed raising interest rates now? That would be insane, just as it was then.

 

[editec]

The supply of money should grow at the rate of the economy. If it does not, then interest rates will be artificially too high, restricting economic growth for reasons that are unnecessary.

Absolutely SPOT ON correct.

The problem we are having now is that the FED allowed too much money in circulation in order to obfuscate the fact that American are basically poorer now, since fewer of them can find work that pays a living wage.

As long as American could borrow enough they could spend more than they made.

Well the chickens have come home to roost, folks.

 

[sealybobo]

It's pretty simple to understand, really, Sealy and I know you can understand it.

There is essantially a static amount of gold in the world.

But there is an usually rapidly growing amount of goods and services being produced.

Now you know enough about supply/demand to realize that:

1. if the amount of money stays static,

2. while the amount goods and services actually produced is rising,

3. then the prices of goods and services will have to go DOWN because there will be the same amount of money chasing those ever increasing amounts of goods and services.

4. In other words in a GOLD BACKED CURRENCY economy in an increasingly productive society, the prices of goods and services MUST go down.

And since the consumer knows that the prices of things is going down tomorrow, they put off purchasing.

Societies with growing populations NEED to have an increasing amount of good and services which comes from a vibrant (and balanced) economic system..



That doesn't mean that I LIKE the way our FED works

But it does mean that I believe that we need SOMETHING LIKE A FED to keep the balance between the amount of money in circulation and the amount of good and services that are being produced.

The gold standard might work very well in a scarcity driven economy (like the mideval one) but it sucks wind in a PLENTY0BASED CONSUMER economy like we have now thanks to technology, industrialization and a growing population.

There's more gold in the world. And maybe it should be more valuable. Maybe that could fix what you are talking about.

Remember Daniel Day Lewis in that movie about oil stopped looking for gold when he found Oil?

Can't the value of gold go up and down to adjust for this problem you talk of?

And why can't our government do what the Fed is doing? Why does it have to be the private bankers? And even if we need a fed, we also need to renegotiate. And we need to rein them in. How did they bail out AIG without permission?

And what's wrong with the price of things going back down? I'm sure there is a better way.

I hate the society where every year we have to produce more and we need more people into the system or the system collapses. I think we'd all be better off slowing down and rethinking the way life should be. They got us working more hours for less, taking away benefits, they won't cover preexisting conditions, blablabla,

Basically all of us will live poor and die poor, and they'll take whatever we have in the end in exchange for taking care of us, because there is no more social security.

Only they'll outsource it to private companies. The person taking care of you works for a corporation. And that corporation is looking to cut costs, so you're eating with plastic silverwear, and being taken care of by an illegal alien who's not being paid well. And so now you become a cost to the corporation, rather than a customer.

 

[Killuminati]

Well if there isn't enough gold, i think we should a competeting currency. Two currencies would work, and allow the economy to grow at the correct ratge. 1 currency backed by gold, and a 2nd currency backed silver or platinum.

 

[sealybobo]

The supply of money should grow at the rate of the economy. If it does not, then interest rates will be artificially too high, restricting economic growth for reasons that are unnecessary.

Absolutely SPOT ON correct.

The problem we are having now is that the FED allowed too much money in circulation in order to obfuscate the fact that American are basically poorer now, since fewer of them can find work that pays a living wage.

As long as American could borrow enough they could spend more than they made.

Well the chickens have come home to roost, folks.

I remember before 2007, Bush kept going back to Congress for more Iraq money, and more and more and each time they kept giving it to him. The Democrats were called unpatriotic if they didn't "support the troops", but then it turned out they weren't giving the troops any of the money. Blackwater was getting it all. Anyways, they ran out of money and the Fed had to print more. I can't remember the year.

Anyways, I have a theory. So they printed too much money, right? Well didn't they rake a bunch of it back when the stock market tanked? How much of our stock market money is now gone? Trillions? Maybe that was on purpose too.

By the way, did you hear that this year was the highest suicide year for the military since the Viet Nam war? Sad.

 

[sealybobo]

Well if there isn't enough gold, i think we should a competeting currency. Two currencies would work, and allow the economy to grow at the correct ratge. 1 currency backed by gold, and a 2nd currency backed silver or platinum.

You a genious!

Now for all the people to come tell you why you can't. You just tell them, "yes you can!"

 

[Killuminati]

Well if there isn't enough gold, i think we should a competeting currency. Two currencies would work, and allow the economy to grow at the correct ratge. 1 currency backed by gold, and a 2nd currency backed silver or platinum.

You a genious!

Now for all the people to come tell you why you can't. You just tell them, "yes you can!"

Whatever

 

[sealybobo]

Well if there isn't enough gold, i think we should a competeting currency. Two currencies would work, and allow the economy to grow at the correct ratge. 1 currency backed by gold, and a 2nd currency backed silver or platinum.

You a genious!

Now for all the people to come tell you why you can't. You just tell them, "yes you can!"

Whatever

I was serious!

Let me say it again in English.

Great idea! Now a bunch of nay sayers are probably going to tell you why this can't be done. I think its a great idea.

Was that better?

You thought I was being sarcastic. I wasn't.

 

[editec]

There's more gold in the world. And maybe it should be more valuable. Maybe that could fix what you are talking about.

Yes, there is more gold but are we finding it as quickly as the amount of goods and services we are producing?

No.

Remember Daniel Day Lewis in that movie about oil stopped looking for gold when he found Oil?

No

Can't the value of gold go up and down to adjust for this problem you talk of?

Well, in the scenario you describe no, because the amount of money is fixed to the amount of gold we have.

So that means that the price of good and services will have to fall to reflect the scarcity of money in comparison to the good and services.

And why can't our government do what the Fed is doing?

Now THERES the 100 TRILLION dollar question, Sealy.

Why does it have to be the private bankers?

It doesn't. But whomsoever has the power to decide how much money is in ciruclation, and whomsoever get the FIRST USE of that money is in the economic catbird seat.

In our case, those people are the PRIVATE BANKS which own the FED.

And even if we need a fed, we also need to renegotiate. And we need to rein them in.

Yeah, exactly. Reining them in to ONLY issue currency (by loaning it) in direct proportion to what the economy is doing (or is expected to be doings).

Of course, AS WE CAN SEE, getting that question right is damned difficult even if you want every so much to be right.

Why?

Becuase nobody knows what tomorrow might bring.

This is essantially the SAME problem that PLANNED ECONOMIES have. One year they think they need steel...then plastics come along and suddently there's WAY TOO MANY steel plants.

How did they bail out AIG without permission?

Congress gave it to them. Wasn't that nice of them?

And what's wrong with the price of things going back down? I'm sure there is a better way.

Probably nothing if you can devise an entire economic system based on a economy where the purchasing power of your money is growing every year.

But what I know is that if people think the price of that house will be 10% less next year than it is today, they're likely to put off the sale.

Multiple that single event by billions of such purchasing decisions and NOBODY buys anything they don't absolutely have to have TODAY.

I hate the society where every year we have to produce more and we need more people into the system or the system collapses.

If we decided to limit the world's population AND we decided to ALSO never change a single thing about the way our society works, not new technology, no increases in our baility to produce things, THEN a gold standard might work just fine.

But no society has ever been like that because such a static society runs completely counter to huamnkind.

And even then it probably world not work because even if man changes, STUFF HAPPENS which makes man have to change.

Did you know that capitalism probably happened when it did because of the BLACK PLAGUE?

Yeah, seriously...society was very stable during the dark ages and feudalism worked pretty damned well.

MOST people never saw ANY money, and they didn't need it because they had their place and their job and they ate and lived in a feudal society.

Then 1/3 of the population died and suddently these peasants were liberated to leave their post if they could find somebody willing to PAY them MONEY to work.

Shit happens, man, and our economy is only a reflection of that...not the cause of it, but the response to it.

I think we'd all be better off slowing down and rethinking the way life should be. They got us working more hours for less, taking away benefits, they won't cover preexisting conditions, blablabla,

Oh yeah, no doubt. The boomer generation is better educated, and worked more hours than the WWII generation, but we are most of us, not doing as well as that generation.

Why?

Well some of the advantages that our nation got because we won WWII evaporated as the world recovered, and some of the changes we made in our own nation worked to make us work harder and smarter for less return.

Basically all of us will live poor and die poor, and they'll take whatever we have in the end in exchange for taking care of us, because there is no more social security.

In my case I started poor, began achiving some success, and then got sick, and am fairly poor again. It could change though.

You never know about life, amigo.

Shit happens. Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you.

Only they'll outsource it to private companies. The person taking care of you works for a corporation. And that corporation is looking to cut costs, so you're eating with plastic silverwear, and being taken care of by an illegal alien who's not being paid well. And so now you become a cost to the corporation, rather than a customer.

Yup, there's an enormous amount of pressure on American workers right now, no doubt about it.

There are many reasons for this some of them we can blame on our leadership and some of them are just fate screwing with us all.

But hey, if you start that revolution where we get to hang the bastards, I've been doing my knitting for years now, so I've got a list we can start with, okay?

ed (does this knitting make me look LaFargic?) itec.

 

[editec]

There's more gold in the world. And maybe it should be more valuable. Maybe that could fix what you are talking about.

Yes, there is more gold but are we finding it as quickly as the amount of goods and services we are producing?

No.

Remember Daniel Day Lewis in that movie about oil stopped looking for gold when he found Oil?

No



Well, in the scenario you describe no, because the amount of money is fixed to the amount of gold we have.

So that means that the price of good and services will have to fall to reflect the scarcity of money in comparison to the good and services.



Now THERES the 100 TRILLION dollar question, Sealy.



It doesn't. But whomsoever has the power to decide how much money is in ciruclation, and whomsoever get the FIRST USE of that money is in the economic catbird seat.

In our case, those people are the PRIVATE BANKS which own the FED.




Yeah, exactly. Reining them in to ONLY issue currency (by loaning it) in direct proportion to what the economy is doing (or is expected to be doings).

Of course, AS WE CAN SEE, getting that question right is damned difficult even if you want every so much to be right.

Why?

Becuase nobody knows what tomorrow might bring.

This is essantially the SAME problem that PLANNED ECONOMIES have. One year they think they need steel...then plastics come along and suddently there's WAY TOO MANY steel plants.



Congress gave it to them. Wasn't that nice of them?



Probably nothing if you can devise an entire economic system based on a economy where the purchasing power of your money is growing every year.

But what I know is that if people think the price of that house will be 10% less next year than it is today, they're likely to put off the sale.

Multiple that single event by billions of such purchasing decisions and NOBODY buys anything they don't absolutely have to have TODAY.



If we decided to limit the world's population AND we decided to ALSO never change a single thing about the way our society works, not new technology, no increases in our baility to produce things, THEN a gold standard might work just fine.

But no society has ever been like that because such a static society runs completely counter to huamnkind.

And even then it probably world not work because even if man changes, STUFF HAPPENS which makes man have to change.

Did you know that capitalism probably happened when it did because of the BLACK PLAGUE?

Yeah, seriously...society was very stable during the dark ages and feudalism worked pretty damned well.

MOST people never saw ANY money, and they didn't need it because they had their place and their job and they ate and lived in a feudal society.

Then 1/3 of the population died and suddently these peasants were liberated to leave their post if they could find somebody willing to PAY them MONEY to work.

Shit happens, man, and our economy is only a reflection of that...not the cause of it, but the response to it.




Oh yeah, no doubt. The boomer generation is better educated, and worked more hours than the WWII generation, but we are most of us, not doing as well as that generation.

Why?

Well some of the advantages that our nation got because we won WWII evaporated as the world recovered, and some of the changes we made in our own nation worked to make us work harder and smarter for less return.

Basically all of us will live poor and die poor, and they'll take whatever we have in the end in exchange for taking care of us, because there is no more social security.

In my case I started poor, began achiving some success, and then got sick, and am fairly poor again. It could change though.

You never know about life, amigo.

Shit happens. Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you.

Only they'll outsource it to private companies. The person taking care of you works for a corporation. And that corporation is looking to cut costs, so you're eating with plastic silverwear, and being taken care of by an illegal alien who's not being paid well. And so now you become a cost to the corporation, rather than a customer.

Yup, there's an enormous amount of pressure on American workers right now, no doubt about it.

There are many reasons for this some of them we can blame on our leadership and some of them are just fate screwing with us all.

But hey, if you start that revolution where we get to hang the bastards, I've been doing my knitting for years now, so I've got a list we can start with, okay?

ed (does this knitting make me look Madam La Fargic?) itec