Should the GOP mention that hillary is married to the Waco mass murderer?

[Faun]

DID YOU LOOK UP AND SEE WHO THE PEOPLE WERE, AND THEIR MENTAL AFFILIATION TO THEIR LEADER? Didn't think so!

Looks like Vagisil is getting ready to pop an aneurysm.

Why on Earth would I give a flying **** what their "mental affliction" is any more than I would yours?? Some idiot made the absurd claim that mass suicide by fire is "unheard of." I proved him wrong. Why people do it is irrelevant in terms of showing that it does in fact happen.

People also get hit by lightening way more than killing themselves by setting themselves on fire! .....It is NOT the way people commit suicide...especially when the FBI pumped in the gas that did the deed!.. Your refusal to accept logic is duly noted, as is your suspension of reality...Typical subversive!

Holyfuckingshit, Vagisil!! People don't commit suicide by lightening -- but they do sometimes commit suicide by fire. It's rare, but it happens. Apparently, usually by religious folks and cultists. To formulate a defense that they didn't roast themselves on some bizarre notion that people rarely commit suicide by fire is pretty weak. But then again, it seems weak is all you have to work with.

 

[Freewill]

You're just too insane for words. The Davidians doused that compound with fuel and the Davidians started fires around the compound to burn it down to the ground. The Davidians killed themselves.

Your idiocy is the equivalent of blaming the police for the death of an armed assailant who shoots himself after being surrounded by police as they move in to arrest him.

No, they didn't kill themselves, the FBI killed them, and the evidence investigated by UNBIASED sources, as the video's show, prove it....You simply are a drooling Democratic shill, that tries to use propaganda against ANYTHING the Democrats perpetrate! You actually think that all those people would stand there and burn to death? You are truly an asshole...It's one thing to drink poison, and NOT be able to escape from it, it's another to start to burn and have the fortitude to stand there and become engulfed in flame....ESPECIALLY CHILDREN, you dumb bastard. You know NOTHING about how people react to fire.

This is testament to how nutty you are ... the very same source you claim proves the FBI killed them is actually a video where it's revealed that Davidians themselves started fires in the compound.

The audio tape indicates that the Davidians mention pouring some liquid, 6 hours before the fires started. Unless you have conflicting information. Also, you keep saying that those who escape admit to setting the fires, could you provide the names of those people. Because it doesn't make sense of their wrongful death law suit if they started the fire, or someone else.

 

[Ibentoken]

Bill Clinton waged a war on women his entire caeer and his needy wife lied for him. She deliberately lied to the American people and supported a sexual predator and womanizer for political purposes. Democrats say she's a strong woman.

 

[Faun]

No, they didn't kill themselves, the FBI killed them, and the evidence investigated by UNBIASED sources, as the video's show, prove it....You simply are a drooling Democratic shill, that tries to use propaganda against ANYTHING the Democrats perpetrate! You actually think that all those people would stand there and burn to death? You are truly an asshole...It's one thing to drink poison, and NOT be able to escape from it, it's another to start to burn and have the fortitude to stand there and become engulfed in flame....ESPECIALLY CHILDREN, you dumb bastard. You know NOTHING about how people react to fire.

This is testament to how nutty you are ... the very same source you claim proves the FBI killed them is actually a video where it's revealed that Davidians themselves started fires in the compound.

There is no such video.

But there is a video showing HRT using a military tank retriever to punch holes in the walls of the building to introduce a gas which is forbidden for use indoors and is highly flammable. It also is known that after this flammable gas was introduced the HRT tossed in a number of flash/bang and tear gas grenades immediately before the fire started.

It is also known that regulations forbid any federal agent to discharge a firearm when his/her specific target is not plainly visible and accessible. Yet thousands of rounds were randomly fired by BATF and FBI/HRT agents through the walls of the Davidian's wooden building -- knowing there were numerous infant children inside.

No issue has ever been made of this -- or of the fact that FBI/HRT was not contending with a gang of dangerous terrorist murderers, but rather a group of eccentric religionists who had been peaceful until subjected to an unnecessary, unjustifiable, militaristic raid by the BATF.

Yes, there is a video stating that. Denial will not erase that. Vagisil posted it earlier in the thread and I quoted the "expert" from the video saying at least one of the fires was started intentionally by the Davidians.

 

[MikeK]

Yes, there is a video stating that. Denial will not erase that. Vagisil posted it earlier in the thread and I quoted the "expert" from the video saying at least one of the fires was started intentionally by the Davidians.

A video of who making that claim? One of the FBI "experts?"

But even if that were true, it would have some insane fanatics carrying out a threat to burn a bunch of children to death (along with themselves) if the FBI made an attempt to break in. And here comes the FBI, fully aware of that threat, breaking in.

And you think that's okay?

 

[Freewill]

Wrong answer. It's not a function of law enforcement to allow people under arrest to "wait as long as it takes" (i.e., as long as they want) to be apprehended. Had they " waited as long as it takes," law enforcement would still be waiting for them to come out. 51 days was more than generous; and provided ample opportunity for the Davidians to vacate the compound peacefully. They chose to remain there indefinitely in defiance of the law and then to take their own lives, including the lives of their own children, when the law moved in to drive them out.

There is far more at issue here than the role of "law enforcement," which seems to hold a special place in your value system.

This was not an ordinary situation. The safety of 21 helpless children, some just tots, was at issue. If you do not regard that as having primary importance the most I can say is it's your problem. I don't have to live with you. You do.

I do have the impression you are a member of law enforcement at some level, which adds to the explanation of why that job category leads in examples of suicide, alcoholism, and divorce. But, whatever the reason, there is no point in laboring an issue which you obviously (and sadly) lack the capacity to comprehend.

Some day you might come to realize why that's a serious problem.

I very much value law enforcement as it's a vital piece of our justice system which is among the best on the planet. The well being of the children is of great importance, but not so much that we allow people under arrest to avoid capture indefinitely if all they have to do is use their own children as human shieds. Even then, law enforcement tried to extricate the Davidians from the compound without injuring them or the children. Turned out, the freaks inside had an ulterior plan to kill themselves, along with their children, rather than surrender peacefully to law enforcement.

How do you know they had a pact to kill themselves? Please state the source, and not just say some video.

 

[JimH52]

Keep reaching.....it will do you no good. No one on the GOP side can stay within ten points of her. But admire your efforts, as futile as they are.

 

[Vigilante]

I don't care how many times you say that since I quoted him verbatim stating that Branch Davidians started fires. He did say it was his contention that the first fire was started by a Davidian firing an AK-47 at law enforcement but other independent fires were started intentionally by the Davidians themselves. He said so. Who knows why you mentally block that out?

Once the back bedroom went up in fire from the highly combustible gas pumped into the whole compound, it was easy to spread to stashes of flammables that were there. Sorry, common sense, and your low IQ has caused you to lose objectivity on this subject! People RARELY commit suicide by fire....it hurts way more than being shot, poison, pills, or hanging! So all 80 decided to kill themselves by the most horrific way they could?....You're a typical delusional, retarded, subversive, if you believe that!

You're delusions don't actually substitute reality, Vagisil. There were no less than 3 independent fires started. It's not like there was just one and it spread. Furthermore, the video you posted describes how one fire was possibly ignited by gunfire but that Davidians started at least one other fire elsewhere in the compound. Furthermore again, the Davidians were dousing the compound with fuel and then sparked it up. So it matters not whether you think it's rare or not -- their actions indicate they did.

Conjecture by the FBI to cover their ass, and corroborated by a complicit government...we've seen this before at Ruby Ridge!.... Show us where the Dravidians were suicidal before the FBI raid!

 

[Freewill]

Keep reaching.....it will do you no good. No one on the GOP side can stay within ten points of her. But admire your efforts, as futile as they are.

Boy do I agree with you. If this is true then it is really a sad day for America. I thought Obama getting elected was a miracle but at least no one knew much about him. But Hillary, her underwear is showing.

 

[Vigilante]

Looks like Vagisil is getting ready to pop an aneurysm.

Why on Earth would I give a flying **** what their "mental affliction" is any more than I would yours?? Some idiot made the absurd claim that mass suicide by fire is "unheard of." I proved him wrong. Why people do it is irrelevant in terms of showing that it does in fact happen.

People also get hit by lightening way more than killing themselves by setting themselves on fire! .....It is NOT the way people commit suicide...especially when the FBI pumped in the gas that did the deed!.. Your refusal to accept logic is duly noted, as is your suspension of reality...Typical subversive!

Holyfuckingshit, Vagisil!! People don't commit suicide by lightening -- but they do sometimes commit suicide by fire. It's rare, but it happens. Apparently, usually by religious folks and cultists. To formulate a defense that they didn't roast themselves on some bizarre notion that people rarely commit suicide by fire is pretty weak. But then again, it seems weak is all you have to work with.

Showing you that death by lightening is more likely than suicide by fire! From 1998 to 2008 447 people were killed by lightning strikes see if you can find a stat on suicide by fire in that time period. Waiting

 

[Vigilante]

This is testament to how nutty you are ... the very same source you claim proves the FBI killed them is actually a video where it's revealed that Davidians themselves started fires in the compound.

There is no such video.

But there is a video showing HRT using a military tank retriever to punch holes in the walls of the building to introduce a gas which is forbidden for use indoors and is highly flammable. It also is known that after this flammable gas was introduced the HRT tossed in a number of flash/bang and tear gas grenades immediately before the fire started.

It is also known that regulations forbid any federal agent to discharge a firearm when his/her specific target is not plainly visible and accessible. Yet thousands of rounds were randomly fired by BATF and FBI/HRT agents through the walls of the Davidian's wooden building -- knowing there were numerous infant children inside.

No issue has ever been made of this -- or of the fact that FBI/HRT was not contending with a gang of dangerous terrorist murderers, but rather a group of eccentric religionists who had been peaceful until subjected to an unnecessary, unjustifiable, militaristic raid by the BATF.

Yes, there is a video stating that. Denial will not erase that. Vagisil posted it earlier in the thread and I quoted the "expert" from the video saying at least one of the fires was started intentionally by the Davidians.

But YOU said it was "Conjecture" when he said that the FBI shoving gas in the house was the cause of the fire...well, which is it, he has CONJECTURE on one but not on the other?....Give us a break!

 

[Vigilante]

Keep reaching.....it will do you no good. No one on the GOP side can stay within ten points of her. But admire your efforts, as futile as they are.

Perhaps we should bring up Belgrade... that was a WHOPPER of a lie! LOLOL!

 

[Contumacious]

Silly me, I figured we'd challenge Hillary on her own record if she runs. Her husbands blunders don't much effect how bad she will.

Blunder?? Burning 80 people alive is now a mere blunder to you libs!!

Everything is politicized.

From the left wing fascists standpoint, murdering those who they consider enemies of the state is now a mere blunder.

.

 

[Contumacious]

So what the **** were they going to search for if they already knew that as a LICENSED DEALER he had semi-automatic rifles, gun parts and inert grenade hulls?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

Fully automatics And exactly what does a religious movement need with such things little nutter?

Apparently there is one more who should have died in the fire back then, you...

Hey einstein. The davidians were in the gun repair business. That's how they paid their bills. Being religious does not mean you won't fight. I'm sure there are many priests and ministers in america who like guns. THINK

Of course , from the left wing fascists standpoint , selling and repairing firearms is illegal. Being a parasite and receiving welfare, food stamps and Obama hellcare is good.

.

 

[Contumacious]

Yes. Republicans should make that the central theme of their campaign against Hillary Clinton.

No matter what topic is on the table, every Republican should try to shift the conversation to Waco.

No sir, they should not.

According to the Honorable"Chuck" Schumer (D-USSR) murdering women , children , political and religious minorities is legal PROVIDED that the individuals are not Jews.

.

 

[Contumacious]

Fully automatics And exactly what does a religious movement need with such things little nutter?

Apparently there is one more who should have died in the fire back then, you...

Hey einstein. The davidians were in the gun repair business. That's how they paid their bills. Being religious does not mean you won't fight. I'm sure there are many priests and ministers in america who like guns. THINK

Their business is why they were raided. And they had no right to kill government agents, which eventually led to their fiery deaths.

Wrong again.


In Feb. 1982, the Senate Judiciary Committee said in a report that the ATF had "disregarded rights guaranteed by the Constitution and laws of the United States." Illegal ATF actions included entrapment and secret lawmaking via unpublished administrative interpretations of gun laws. The report noted that "expert evidence was submitted establishing that approximately 75 percent of BATF gun prosecutions were aimed at ordinary citizens who had neither criminal intent nor knowledge, but were enticed by agents into unknowing technical violations." In the wake of the report, plans to abolish the agency were shelved after neither the U.S. Customs Bureau nor the Secret Service would accept the transfer of the discredited ATF agents into their organizations [3].

The ATF acted true to form in its investigation of the Davidians -- the purpose of the raid appears to have been to bolster the ATF's image, rather than any protection of the public safety. From Aguilera's affidavit it appears that the ATF collected no reliable new information for its investigation after June 23, 1992. But in mid-November "60 Minutes" began contacting ATF personnel about allegations of sexual harrassment in the agency [61]. In early December the investigation picked up again, after a lapse of 5-1/2 months [62].


This analysis was supported by a followup "60 Minutes" report on May 23. Based on statements from ATF agents, Mike Wallace concluded the report by saying, "Waco was a publicity stunt, which was intended to improve the ATF's tarnished image." Consistent with this interpretation, the ATF notified the media before the raid [50,56,35], and there were a large number of television and newspaper reporters at the site on the morning of the raid [50].

On January 12, 1993 the segment aired. It presented allegations by female ATF agents that they had been sexually harrassed on the job and that the agency intimidated victims and witnesses who had pressed sexual harrassment claims. Among the charges was one of near-rape: agent Michelle Roberts charged that another agent had pinned her against the hood of a car while two others tore at her clothes. ATF agent Bob Hoffman told "60 Minutes" that he had verified the complaints of one female agent, and said, "In my career with ATF, the people that I put in jail have more honor than the top administration in this organization." Shortly afterwards, there was also a front-page article in the The Washington Post about racial discrimination in the ATF"

.

 

[JoeB131]

Conjecture by the FBI to cover their ass, and corroborated by a complicit government...we've seen this before at Ruby Ridge!.... Show us where the Dravidians were suicidal before the FBI raid!

The Branch Davidians practiced suicide drills.

 

[Freewill]

Conjecture by the FBI to cover their ass, and corroborated by a complicit government...we've seen this before at Ruby Ridge!.... Show us where the Dravidians were suicidal before the FBI raid!

The Branch Davidians practiced suicide drills.

Proof?

 

[JoeB131]

Conjecture by the FBI to cover their ass, and corroborated by a complicit government...we've seen this before at Ruby Ridge!.... Show us where the Dravidians were suicidal before the FBI raid!

The Branch Davidians practiced suicide drills.

Proof?

You mean besides the fact they all killed themselves?

Living Armstrongism: The Branch Davidians Committed Mass Suicide (1993)

Throughout the morning of April 19, none of the Davidians left their residence. After the fire broke out, however, nine persons left the building. This indicates that at least some opportunity existed for the Davidians to safely leave the structure had they wanted to do so. One of those who escaped the fire left the residence almost 21 minutes after the breakout of the first fire. Clearly, some means of escape from the residence existed for a significant period of time after the fire broke out.

An important question, however, is whether the Davidians might have been overcome by smoke and prevented from leaving the residence. The autopsies of the Davidians indicate that deaths from smoke inhalation or asphyxiation from carbon monoxide poisoning accounted for only half of the Davidians who died in the residence. The other causes of death were gunshot wounds, burns, or other trauma. Thus, even after the fires began to consume the structure, at least half of the Davidians were not so affected by the smoke and fumes from the fire that they were physically unable to leave the structure.

 

[Freewill]

The Branch Davidians practiced suicide drills.

Proof?

You mean besides the fact they all killed themselves?

Living Armstrongism: The Branch Davidians Committed Mass Suicide (1993)

Throughout the morning of April 19, none of the Davidians left their residence. After the fire broke out, however, nine persons left the building. This indicates that at least some opportunity existed for the Davidians to safely leave the structure had they wanted to do so. One of those who escaped the fire left the residence almost 21 minutes after the breakout of the first fire. Clearly, some means of escape from the residence existed for a significant period of time after the fire broke out.

An important question, however, is whether the Davidians might have been overcome by smoke and prevented from leaving the residence. The autopsies of the Davidians indicate that deaths from smoke inhalation or asphyxiation from carbon monoxide poisoning accounted for only half of the Davidians who died in the residence. The other causes of death were gunshot wounds, burns, or other trauma. Thus, even after the fires began to consume the structure, at least half of the Davidians were not so affected by the smoke and fumes from the fire that they were physically unable to leave the structure.

OK, if you were to say they shot each other I would agree but death by fire seems to not be the way I would go if I were committed to killing myself and had weapons.

Second, Maybe those killed in the wooden structure committed suicide by fire, maybe. But what of those in the concrete "bunker" which has survived another fire? Certainly if they are going to die by fire they don't go into a concrete bunker with their children.

Thirdly, the link you provided does not say they practiced suicide drills. If they did what form of suicide did they practice?

Fourth, Did you see how completely the compound burned? No attempt to extinguish the flames and I doubt they could have been. So how do investigators, considering how rapid the site was razed, know exactly where the accelerant was or how it was even used?

When you view the video does it really seem like the tanks are trying to make escape holes? And why would they do that when there are already doors and windows? How does tearing up the roof with a boom create escape routes?