Should soldiers be armed?

[PaintMyHouse]

Does anyone here believe that on-duty soldiers should not be allowed to have firearms?

Should Soldiers Be Armed At Military Posts NPR
Should members of the military be allowed to carry guns on bases - CBS News
Chattanooga shootings Why should we make it easy for killers to attack our military Fox News

If so, why?

There is a reason the military believes that to be a bad idea. The military puts a great deal of stress on many of those who serve, many of them being very young. On top of that, drug use in the military is quite high. Yes, they kick them out if they are on drugs, but sometimes it takes a while. I think having everyone armed on base would lead to more multiple shootings where our own soldiers just go off and lose it. I might be wrong, but I do think that this is the reasoning behind them not being permitted to carry firearms. In this most recent incident, I don't think it would have mattered as this guy was shooting from his car.

This is an absolutely bullshit liberal reply,

The truth is simple: urged by his military hating wife, Bill Clinton issued an executive order denying military personnel from carrying weapons on AND OFF base in 1992. Only security forces carry weapons and only a few of them are actually ready to fire! Most carry empty weapons with the clips in their belt pouches.

Get it right or shut up!

Link??

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Does anyone here believe that on-duty soldiers should not be allowed to have firearms?

Should Soldiers Be Armed At Military Posts NPR
Should members of the military be allowed to carry guns on bases - CBS News
Chattanooga shootings Why should we make it easy for killers to attack our military Fox News

If so, why?

There is a reason the military believes that to be a bad idea. The military puts a great deal of stress on many of those who serve, many of them being very young. On top of that, drug use in the military is quite high. Yes, they kick them out if they are on drugs, but sometimes it takes a while. I think having everyone armed on base would lead to more multiple shootings where our own soldiers just go off and lose it. I might be wrong, but I do think that this is the reasoning behind them not being permitted to carry firearms. In this most recent incident, I don't think it would have mattered as this guy was shooting from his car.

This is an absolutely bullshit liberal reply,

The truth is simple: urged by his military hating wife, Bill Clinton issued an executive order denying military personnel from carrying weapons on AND OFF base in 1992. Only security forces carry weapons and only a few of them are actually ready to fire! Most carry empty weapons with the clips in their belt pouches.

Get it right or shut up!

Link??

Oh, here it is, on the Blaze no less, and it was Bush, not Clinton: This Is Why Most Military Personnel Aren t Armed on Military Bases and It s Not Clinton s Fault TheBlaze.com

 

[MikeK]

I think the key factors in allowing citizens (not just police and military) to be armed if they so choose are a background devoid of any reasonable cause for denial, such as history of violent or felonious conduct, and completion of a rigorous training program emphasizing constraint and penalties for misuse and careless handling.

By rigorous I mean something similar to the firearms training police receive -- but with much greater emphasis on laws and regulations. I predict that a substantial percentage of those civilians who enroll in such training would change their minds about wanting to carry a gun. Those who complete the training would be effectively constrained in their handling and disposition re: use.

I believe the vast majority of gun accidents and misuse are a direct result of ignorance, a condition which is remediable by effective training. Too many Americans who own guns know nothing more about them than what they learn from movies, television, and friends who don't know what they are talking about.

Re: military personnel who are required to wear a uniform in public; denying them the right to be armed is an outrage under the existing potential for terrorist attacks.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

I agree whole heatedly with your sentiments.
Let's add in there complacency as a culprit in self shootings.

I have know at least one individual who was considered extremely gun knowledgeable, but accidentally shot himself while cleaning a pistol.
His words were, "I thought it was unloaded", he neither checked or even removed the clip before accidentally discharging while cleaning.

 

[Kondor3]

Yes.

At least a vetted and trained subset.

Including recruiting stations, which should be considered Federal Property, regardless of whether Uncle Sam holds the pink-slip to the place, or is just leasing or renting.

Even if we have to kick-up a fuss to negate any present-day legal barriers.

 

[hortysir]

Not all military personnel carry a weapon on a regular basis.
Those that do, and are qualified, should never be unarmed IMO.

 

[Obiwan]

Kondor3

It's still considered Federal property if it's leased, so there's no barrier there ...
Federal Property Law Legal Definition





20 USCS § 107e defines "federal property" as any building, land, or other real property owned, leased, or occupied by any department, agency, or instrumentality of the United States (including the Department of Defense and the United States Postal Service), or any other instrumentality wholly owned by the United States, or by any department or agency of the District of Columbia or any territory or possession of the United States.

 

[Desperado]

Where does it say that the Constitution does not apply to military personal.
The Second amendment applies to all even people in the military.
The is no reason they should not be able to carry a side arm.

 

[Kondor3]

Kondor3

It's still considered Federal property if it's leased, so there's no barrier there ...
Federal Property Law Legal Definition...

Good to know... thanks.

Hopefully, that extends to parking and common areas, immediately adjacent-to and common-to the public areas of such recruiting stations, etc.

If not, that should be an easy fix, in Congress.

Meanwhile...

If a given military base (Active or Reserves or Guard) or military offices (such as recruiting centers) are, indeed, considered Federal Property or Federal Reservations, for purposes of arming...

Then military personnel carrying weapons ON such premises should not pose a problem, from a Constitutional perspective, I would hope.

The Clinton? Bush? EO(s) referred to earlier in this thread could be overturned easily enough, I'm sure.

And, so long as such arms are used exclusively for the protection of Military Personnel and/or Federal Employees, while on Federal property, no big deal, I would think.

So long as we properly scrutinize and train those selected to carry arms under such conditions.

Military Police cannot do the job all by themselves.

For this, we will need to trust the rank-and-file - properly vetted and trained, of course.

Or so it seems to this observer.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Where does it say that the Constitution does not apply to military personal.
The Second amendment applies to all even people in the military.
The is no reason they should not be able to carry a side arm.

The military disagrees, and they get to set their own rules eh?

 

[tigerred59]

Does anyone here believe that on-duty soldiers should not be allowed to have firearms?

Should Soldiers Be Armed At Military Posts NPR
Should members of the military be allowed to carry guns on bases - CBS News
Chattanooga shootings Why should we make it easy for killers to attack our military Fox News

If so, why?

Should soldiers have arms should be the damned question.......lets get out of the middle east and bring our soldiers HOME and focus on the crazies we got here in America!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is killing this country

 

[Moonglow]

At least arm the freaking Military Police. When the jihad Major murdered a dozen of his own Soldiers at Ft. Hood there wasn't a gun on the base and they had to call 911 while he was reloading. I had occasion to visit Ft. Myer in Washington a couple of years ago and the sloppy security company that checks the visitor cars was armed to the teeth.

Not true, since even airport guards are armed...

 

[BlackSand]

MP's could handle the job and already get the training.

I really like the fact that there are some gun-ho kick-assed soldiers that are really awesome when you hand them a weapon and point them in the direction of the enemy ... But giving them weapons and live ammunition to walk around in Times Square might not be the best idea.

.

 

[auditor0007]

Does anyone here believe that on-duty soldiers should not be allowed to have firearms?

Should Soldiers Be Armed At Military Posts NPR
Should members of the military be allowed to carry guns on bases - CBS News
Chattanooga shootings Why should we make it easy for killers to attack our military Fox News

If so, why?

There is a reason the military believes that to be a bad idea. The military puts a great deal of stress on many of those who serve, many of them being very young. On top of that, drug use in the military is quite high. Yes, they kick them out if they are on drugs, but sometimes it takes a while. I think having everyone armed on base would lead to more multiple shootings where our own soldiers just go off and lose it. I might be wrong, but I do think that this is the reasoning behind them not being permitted to carry firearms. In this most recent incident, I don't think it would have mattered as this guy was shooting from his car.

This is an absolutely bullshit liberal reply,

The truth is simple: urged by his military hating wife, Bill Clinton issued an executive order denying military personnel from carrying weapons on AND OFF base in 1992. Only security forces carry weapons and only a few of them are actually ready to fire! Most carry empty weapons with the clips in their belt pouches.

Get it right or shut up!

You get it right jackass. It was GH Bush who implemented this. It just didn't take affect until after Clinton took office. Do you have any more stupid comments to make?

 

[Hossfly]

Does anyone here believe that on-duty soldiers should not be allowed to have firearms?

Should Soldiers Be Armed At Military Posts NPR
Should members of the military be allowed to carry guns on bases - CBS News
Chattanooga shootings Why should we make it easy for killers to attack our military Fox News

If so, why?

There is a reason the military believes that to be a bad idea. The military puts a great deal of stress on many of those who serve, many of them being very young. On top of that, drug use in the military is quite high. Yes, they kick them out if they are on drugs, but sometimes it takes a while. I think having everyone armed on base would lead to more multiple shootings where our own soldiers just go off and lose it. I might be wrong, but I do think that this is the reasoning behind them not being permitted to carry firearms. In this most recent incident, I don't think it would have mattered as this guy was shooting from his car.

This is an absolutely bullshit liberal reply,

The truth is simple: urged by his military hating wife, Bill Clinton issued an executive order denying military personnel from carrying weapons on AND OFF base in 1992. Only security forces carry weapons and only a few of them are actually ready to fire! Most carry empty weapons with the clips in their belt pouches.

Get it right or shut up!

You get it right jackass. It was GH Bush who implemented this. It just didn't take affect until after Clinton took office. Do you have any more stupid comments to make?

What difference does it make?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Does anyone here believe that on-duty soldiers should not be allowed to have firearms?

Should Soldiers Be Armed At Military Posts NPR
Should members of the military be allowed to carry guns on bases - CBS News
Chattanooga shootings Why should we make it easy for killers to attack our military Fox News

If so, why?

There is a reason the military believes that to be a bad idea. The military puts a great deal of stress on many of those who serve, many of them being very young. On top of that, drug use in the military is quite high. Yes, they kick them out if they are on drugs, but sometimes it takes a while. I think having everyone armed on base would lead to more multiple shootings where our own soldiers just go off and lose it. I might be wrong, but I do think that this is the reasoning behind them not being permitted to carry firearms. In this most recent incident, I don't think it would have mattered as this guy was shooting from his car.

This is an absolutely bullshit liberal reply,

The truth is simple: urged by his military hating wife, Bill Clinton issued an executive order denying military personnel from carrying weapons on AND OFF base in 1992. Only security forces carry weapons and only a few of them are actually ready to fire! Most carry empty weapons with the clips in their belt pouches.

Get it right or shut up!

You get it right jackass. It was GH Bush who implemented this. It just didn't take affect until after Clinton took office. Do you have any more stupid comments to make?

What difference does it make?

A lot, since the OP is blaming the wrong President and political party. He's also not man enough to admit that BTW...

 

[2aguy]

The wake of the September 2013 fatal shooting of 12 people by a civilian military contractor who went on a rampage at Washington Navy Yard saw the recirculation of a rumor that gained currency after the November 2009 fatal shooting of 13 people by a U.S. Army psychiatrist at Fort Hood, Texas: that one of the reasons these mass shooters had not been stopped earlier in their killing sprees was because President Bill Clinton had issued an executive order back in 1993 that prohibited personnel on military bases from carrying firearms while on duty.

While there was at least a small kernel of real information underlying such claims, the gist of the rumor was wrong on two major counts.

It was during the presidency of George H.W. Bush, not Bill Clinton, that the U.S. Department of Defense issued a directive in February 1992 affecting the carrying of firearms on bases by military personnel. That directive was eventually implemented through a regulation 190-14 issued by the Department of the Army (not via executive order) in March 1993, just two months after President Clinton assumed office.

Additionally, that change in regulations (which applied only to the Army, not other branches of the U.S. armed forces) did not ban the carrying of weapons by soldiers on Army bases; rather, it restricted the authorization to carry firearms to personnel engaged in law enforcement and security duties, and to personnel stationed at facilities where there was "a reasonable expectation that life or Army assets would be jeopardized if firearms were not carried":



a. The authorization to carry firearms will be issued only to qualified personnel when there is a reasonable expectation that life or Department of the Army (DA) assets will be jeopardized if firearms are not carried. Evaluation of the necessity to carry a firearm will be made considering this expectation weighed against the possible consequences of accidental or indiscriminate use of firearms.

b. DA personnel regularly engaged in law enforcement or security duties will be armed.

c. DA personnel are authorized to carry firearms while engaged in security duties, protecting personnel and vital Government assets, or guarding prisoners.


snopes.com Clinton Disarmed Soldiers on Military Bases

And after the Fort Hood shootings, both of them and the Navy Yard shooting, obama still has not changed the policy, and since neither bush or clinton, the serial rapist, had actually incidents of muslim terrorism to consider and obama does, it falls on obama, not them.

 

[2aguy]

Does anyone here believe that on-duty soldiers should not be allowed to have firearms?

Should Soldiers Be Armed At Military Posts NPR
Should members of the military be allowed to carry guns on bases - CBS News
Chattanooga shootings Why should we make it easy for killers to attack our military Fox News

If so, why?

There is a reason the military believes that to be a bad idea. The military puts a great deal of stress on many of those who serve, many of them being very young. On top of that, drug use in the military is quite high. Yes, they kick them out if they are on drugs, but sometimes it takes a while. I think having everyone armed on base would lead to more multiple shootings where our own soldiers just go off and lose it. I might be wrong, but I do think that this is the reasoning behind them not being permitted to carry firearms. In this most recent incident, I don't think it would have mattered as this guy was shooting from his car.

This is an absolutely bullshit liberal reply,

The truth is simple: urged by his military hating wife, Bill Clinton issued an executive order denying military personnel from carrying weapons on AND OFF base in 1992. Only security forces carry weapons and only a few of them are actually ready to fire! Most carry empty weapons with the clips in their belt pouches.

Get it right or shut up!

You get it right jackass. It was GH Bush who implemented this. It just didn't take affect until after Clinton took office. Do you have any more stupid comments to make?

What difference does it make?

A lot, since the OP is blaming the wrong President and political party. He's also not man enough to admit that BTW...

Yeah, he needs to blame obama and the democrats....since they actually had muslim terrorism happen at fort hood and still didn't change the policy....thanks for bringing up that point.

 

[2aguy]

April 03, 2014

Last month, Defense Department officials released a report examining security in the wake of the Navy Yard shooting. The department concluded it had done a poor job securing the facility, screening personnel, and recognizing and addressing the mental health issues of the shooter.

The review included 14 recommendations for improving security. Letting soldiers carry weapons on base wasn't one of them.

The report recommended instead that signage be "posted conspicuously" at installations as reminders of the prohibition against carrying firearms in federal facilities.

"I don't think soldiers should have concealed weapons on base," Lt. Gen. Mark Milley, the commander of Fort Hood, said at a news conference on Wednesday.

Should Soldiers Be Armed At Military Posts NPR

The report recommended instead that signage be "posted conspicuously" at installations as reminders of the prohibition against carrying firearms in federal facilities.

And how did that sign work out....

Oh......I guess the sign just wasn't big enough....right?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

There is a reason the military believes that to be a bad idea. The military puts a great deal of stress on many of those who serve, many of them being very young. On top of that, drug use in the military is quite high. Yes, they kick them out if they are on drugs, but sometimes it takes a while. I think having everyone armed on base would lead to more multiple shootings where our own soldiers just go off and lose it. I might be wrong, but I do think that this is the reasoning behind them not being permitted to carry firearms. In this most recent incident, I don't think it would have mattered as this guy was shooting from his car.

This is an absolutely bullshit liberal reply,

The truth is simple: urged by his military hating wife, Bill Clinton issued an executive order denying military personnel from carrying weapons on AND OFF base in 1992. Only security forces carry weapons and only a few of them are actually ready to fire! Most carry empty weapons with the clips in their belt pouches.

Get it right or shut up!

You get it right jackass. It was GH Bush who implemented this. It just didn't take affect until after Clinton took office. Do you have any more stupid comments to make?

What difference does it make?

A lot, since the OP is blaming the wrong President and political party. He's also not man enough to admit that BTW...

Yeah, he needs to blame obama and the democrats....since they actually had muslim terrorism happen at fort hood and still didn't change the policy....thanks for bringing up that point.

The change is up to the DOD. It's their policy. How unfortunate for you that the US military are big fans of gun control...