Should people who chose to not vaccinate get preference?

[MisterBeale]

well, if you'd gotten vaccinations maybe I wouldn't need this fickkjng mask. LOL

You don't need it anyway.

It might be a good idea to wear it if you feel feverish and sick? But if that is the case, I recommend you just quarantine yourself, and not spread this shit, it is serious.

 

[Circe]

It happens in ER's every day.

Emergency departments around the world use different triage systems to assess the severity of incoming patients' conditions and assign treatment priorities.

National Center for Biotechnology Information › articles › PMC3021905

Are you expecting this to happen soon ---- triage necessary in American emergency rooms, based on, well, moral considerations rather than severity of illness?

 

[postman]

Sounds like the ethical thought experiment of the streetcar could go on either of two tracks --- one has one obese man on it and the other has five normal-weight people. Which way would you throw the switch?

I wouldn't touch that switch, is my answer.

Actually that's the reason you see cars with a "baby on board" sign in the rear window.

 

[hadit]

Should hospitals also refuse care to people who didn't wear a seatbelt and got in a car accident?

Once you open the doors to denying care to people with unpopular political views, it never gets shut, only affects more and more people as political winds change.

 

[postman]

Remember when Joe Biden said "if you get vaccinated, you won't have to wear a mask anymore"? I remember.

Do you remember when Nixon said he had a peace plan for Vietnam? I remember that too.

 

[colfax_m]

I wouldn't argue any of the points because we simply do not know. Had the pharmaceutical companies gone through the necessary 8-12 years of clinical trials, we would have data from all different points. We only have data from 8 months. Those are the facts. These moving objects being thrown out by the CDC are laughable at best.

I don't think you know anything about the process for vaccine approval.

The facts are that the data shows people who are vaccinated are far less likely to die from COVID. You don't need 10 years of data for that.

 

[marvin martian]

Do you remember when Nixon said he had a peace plan for Vietnam? I remember that too.

So Biden = Nixon according to you. Interesting. You're not wrong.

 

[colfax_m]

Yeah, well, not being able to breathe is probably quite a motivator. And docs control the oxygen. I would much prefer we could get it freely on the open market and hire care and support, not in hospitals, but docs love to own and control everything.

Robot or human?

Here ya go.

The problem is that you don't know what you're doing with it.

 

[Circe]

O.K. I'm going to make this pretty simple.

The title of the thread is, "Should people who chose to not vaccinate get preference?" That implies that medical services prioritize based on something other than need. . . generally, they don't.

If you have ever been to the ER. YOU KNOW, they all practice triage. If you go for a deep gash and stitches, but someone else comes in with a heart attack, it matters NOT if you were there first, the person with a stroke or heart attack is going to be seen first. This is not just a combat or disaster scenario concept, every ER in the nation practices triage.

SO? The thread is a stupid premise. The most dire cases should be seen first, regardless of the patients previous choices.

Why are you having a hard time with this?

Are you a victim of the TEE VEE propaganda too?

No one is losing out on necessary emergency care b/c of the unvaccinated. . . it is a lie.

Okay, so it's a question of how serious the condition of the patient, and the sicker they are the sooner "treated," for whatever little that is worth? (Oh, God, keep me out of hospitals, please.) You are saying that is already an ethical must-do, so there is no problem. Well, except that there are too many sick people and the docs are getting burned out and they are explicitly getting angry at the unvaxxed generally and are making public statements that are obnoxious, doesn't surprise me, docs always think they should rule the world. In fact, that's why we're in the situation we're in. If they'd left it alone, we'd probably be in better shape as a country and already have population immunity rather than forcing people to line up to take a vaccine that doesn't work at all, apparently, to reduce infection.

The thread premise COULD certainly happen, though: I am even expecting it, and soon. Overwhelmed emergency rooms and hospitals --- we are seeing it now, episodically and with special circumstances, such as pediatric cases. Watch September.

I suppose they'll just do what they always do, not treat the sickest, the old, the fattest, the dialysis cases, diabetics, etc. Nice. But I suppose they'd have to discriminate on some basis.

 

[postman]

On 2 October, the White House announced President Donald Trump received an experimental antibody treatment after a test revealed he's infected …

This was the same rare and expensive treatment given to Rudy Giuliani, and Chris Christy.

 

[MisterBeale]

Because their comorbidity makes them susceptible to COVID complications, where vaccinations serve to prevent that happening.

. . and what if they have already HAD COVID? That seems like discrimination to me.

Dr. Makary Says Natural Immunity Is More Effective Than Vaccine Immunity

Dr. Marty Makary, a professor at John Hopkins School of Medicine, said individuals formerly infected with COVID-19 are seven time more likely to fight it.

dailycaller.com

 

[Circe]

On 2 October, the White House announced President Donald Trump received an experimental antibody treatment after a test revealed he's infected …

This was the same rare and expensive treatment given to Rudy Giuliani, and Chris Christy.

I would have a lot more respect for docs if they developed some actual treatments that work. As opposed to just oxygen and those killer respirator machines.

 

[postman]

The thread premise COULD certainly happen, though: I am even expecting it, and soon. Overwhelmed emergency rooms and hospitals --- we are seeing it now, episodically and with special circumstances, such as pediatric cases. Watch September.

I suppose they'll just do what they always do, not treat the sickest, the old, the fattest, the dialysis cases, diabetics, etc. Nice. But I suppose they'd have to discriminate on some basis.

COVID patient overload causes extreme ER wait times

Patients report wait times of up to six hours.

www.mynews13.com

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. — The large number of COVID-19 patients being seen in Central Florida emergency rooms is causing other patients to wait up to six hours to be seen.

 

[MisterBeale]

Okay, so it's a question of how serious the condition of the patient, and the sicker they are the sooner "treated," for whatever little that is worth? (Oh, God, keep me out of hospitals, please.) You are saying that is already an ethical must-do, so there is no problem. Well, except that there are too many sick people and the docs are getting burned out and they are explicitly getting angry at the unvaxxed generally and are making public statements that are obnoxious, doesn't surprise me, docs always think they should rule the world. In fact, that's why we're in the situation we're in. If they'd left it alone, we'd probably be in better shape as a country and already have population immunity rather than forcing people to line up to take a vaccine that doesn't work at all, apparently, to reduce infection.

The thread premise COULD certainly happen, though: I am even expecting it, and soon. Overwhelmed emergency rooms and hospitals --- we are seeing it now, episodically and with special circumstances, such as pediatric cases. Watch September.

I suppose they'll just do what they always do, not treat the sickest, the old, the fattest, the dialysis cases, diabetics, etc. Nice. But I suppose they'd have to discriminate on some basis.

There is, of course, also that debate that has been censored, among legitimate experts in immunology, and virology, that these new fan-dangled "vaccines," are actually doing harm to the T-cell and T-memory helper cells.

You must remember, most hospitals don't have much excess ER capacity, as we live in a free market. I don't know exactly what the baseline is, but if you ever go to the ER when we are not in a COVID or Flu surge, you still have to wait usually. I think it hovers around 75-80% as the baseline.

SO? If high risk patients were the ones that overwhelmingly took the vax on the first wave, in the first year, and those censored POV's told us that it would cause them to be more susceptible to disease, we would expect the baseline to be pushed up, seeing more types of OTHER diseases and health issues. . . thus, yes, the un-vaxed WOULD cause a crises in those hospitals, in those healthcare systems.

. . and, in what states would we expect the most high risk persons to live? Well, just spit balling here, but those states where most retirees and disabled live. . . hmmmm

Where do you suppose those healthcare systems are?

 

[postman]

I would have a lot more respect for docs if they developed some actual treatments that work. As opposed to just oxygen and those killer respirator machines.

They were told hydroxychloroquine was a miracle cure.

Whoops.

 

[DrLove]

When a responsible person gets a covid vaccine and needs life saving medical care, but the hospitals are full of the misguided non vaccinated. Somethings wrong . They won’t vaccinate but will beg for any treatment at the hospitals,
FDA approved or not, at that point.

Great column that’s personal & raises more questions than those involving “elective procedures”.

I’m in Boise right now - my last home for 19 years prior to moving to Oregon Coast in early 2019. Going on Doc appointments, seeing fam/ friends & enjoying some awesome bike rides here on the Greenbelt which I miss an awful lot.

So I got a text on the way out from wife of a beloved 80 year old neighbor had a bout with COPD, had fluid around his heart & was critical.

Boise’s ERs are full of unvaxed COVID patients and it was a few hours before he had the specialists and equipment needed in a non-COVID ER bed. He died early yesterday morning.

Would those few hours possibly have saved his life? We’ll never know.

So yes, make the idiot unvaxed (insured or not) wait .. at home if necessary until such time hospitals have sufficient ER resources to handle emergencies like auto accidents, heart attacks, strokes, etc etc.

His widow is understandably a tad PO’d. They were first in line for their Pfizer jabs. That should have been worth something.

 

[Dadoalex]

When you get in a car wreck and it's your fault, should the firemen just let the car burn with you in it? Let's make sure to help the others who weren't at fault FIRST.........even though they have minor injuries and you're burning in the car. Remember, it was your fault.

Firemen don't make accident determinations.
Doctors, on the other hand, do make evaluations based on medical evidence
2 beds = needs, 1 vaccinated, one not.
It's called triage.

 

[Circe]

COVID patient overload causes extreme ER wait times

Patients report wait times of up to six hours.

www.mynews13.com

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. — The large number of COVID-19 patients being seen in Central Florida emergency rooms is causing other patients to wait up to six hours to be seen.

I know I'm bad at predicting, but they might at least give me until September! Well, this is just Florida (and Hawaii, and some pediatric hospitals) so far, so I'm still holding out for September being Panic Time.

Remember when they said breakthru infections are VERY, VERY RARE? Three fully vaccinated senators covid-sick later, apparently that statement is as "no-longer-operative" as all the other lies have been. This is why I don't think things are going well. The kids starting school will all catch covid and pass it to their whole family. It's an R8 virus: eight people infected for every one who catches it. 100% of the country will get it, hopefully excluding those who actually caught it before. I hope all of you (and me) survive it without problems.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

When a responsible person gets a covid vaccine and needs life saving medical care, but the hospitals are full of the misguided non vaccinated. Somethings wrong . They won’t vaccinate but will beg for any treatment at the hospitals,
FDA approved or not, at that point.

We don't owe the unvaccinated priority on hospital care

People have a right to reject vaccination against COVID-19; no question.

www.galvnews.com

If you ever say health care is a human right again I'm gonna sock u in da nose

Idiot progressive

Live up to your own standards nazi *** !

 

[Circe]

There is, of course, also that debate that has been censored, among legitimate experts in immunology, and virology, that these new fan-dangled "vaccines," are actually doing harm to the T-cell and T-memory helper cells.

You must remember, most hospitals don't have much excess ER capacity, as we live in a free market. I don't know exactly what the baseline is, but if you ever go to the ER when we are not in a COVID or Flu surge, you still have to wait usually. I think it hovers around 75-80% as the baseline.

SO? If high risk patients were the ones that overwhelmingly took the vax on the first wave, in the first year, and those censored POV's told us that it would cause them to be more susceptible to disease, we would expect the baseline to be pushed up, seeing more types of OTHER diseases and health issues. . . thus, yes, the un-vaxed WOULD cause a crises in those hospitals, in those healthcare systems.

. . and, in what states would we expect the most high risk persons to live? Well, just spit balling here, but those states where most retirees and disabled live. . . hmmmm

Where do you suppose those healthcare systems are?

I expect you are pointing at poor Florida. I hope DeSantis' political future survives all this.