Should government run society?

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Most of the decisions that impact society are made by groups and individuals with a lot of wealth and influence.

I think that's exactly what democratic socialists want to change.

Both ideas have massive flaws. We're sliding nicely into a caste system when Republicans are at the helm. A totalitarian police state with the Democrats. It boils down to what you lean into by your opinions on certain issues. Today, it's a right or wrong answer. Choose.

 

[eagle1462010]

Wrong.
People decide what they want, and then they elect the candidates who will do it for them.
There is no other way.
If you do not collectively create government to do what the majority want, then the only alternative would be that the wealthy elite would control everything themselves instead.

50% plus 1 then order 50% minus 1 on everything. Which is exactly why the Founders didn't want a Pure Democracy. Pure Democracy sucks.

This country is screwed because of a corrupt Central Gov't that is bought and paid for and for us allowing them too much power. States should rule their own internal affairs without a peep from the Fed. the Fed IS THE STATES ANYWAY.

 

[Rigby5]

I don't think it does. A totalitarian regime is based on fear and coercion, which is ultimately toxic to a society. Even if the current leader is a great guy or gal, an all-powerful government creates paranoia and distrust in society.

True.
But where to totalitarian regimes come from?
They come from the wealthy elite who can manipulate media or hire mercenaries.
They do not come from socialism, which is collective, communal, and cooperative, so therefore inherently democratic.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

The government's job is to protect you from predators, foreign and domestic. It also settles disputes. Anything else is tyranny.

Of course. You're a lunatic extremist. There's tyranny around every corner for you. How ******* dull.

 

[eagle1462010]

True.
But where to totalitarian regimes come from?
They come from the wealthy elite who can manipulate media or hire mercenaries.
They do not come from socialism, which is collective, communal, and cooperative, so therefore inherently democratic.

Socialism on steroids path has always been communism.

Our problem here is both sides are corrupt as hell feeding on the dollar and destroying it's value. It isn't Capitalism when the Gov't picks the winners.

 

[Rigby5]

50% plus 1 then order 50% minus 1 on everything. Which is exactly why the Founders didn't want a Pure Democracy. Pure Democracy sucks.

This country is screwed because of a corrupt Central Gov't that is bought and paid for and for us allowing them too much power. States should rule their own internal affairs without a peep from the Fed. the Fed IS THE STATES ANYWAY.

Sure states are more receptive than federal, but that does not change the fact states should be socialist.
Fascist capitalists have more influence on the federal left because they control the media.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Our problem here is both sides are corrupt as hell feeding on the dollar and destroying it's value.

Yes. It is a problem.

It isn't Capitalism when the Gov't picks the winners.

Of course it is. And how does one go about stopping that giant, behemoth government cash cow called 'bailouts' that's been picking winners and losers regardless of party affiliation longer than you or me were a gleam in our daddies eyes, hmm?

Seems like a fruitless endeavor.

So let's not jerk each other off pretending anything about this bullshit government or our current situation as a nation is anything resembling perfect.

 

[eagle1462010]

Sure states are more receptive than federal, but that does not change the fact states should be socialist.
Fascist capitalists have more influence on the federal left because they control the media.

More local the better. Founding principle. Exactly why they spayed and neutered the fed.

By States handling their own affairs they choose their own fate and don't force it on others. I shouldn't tell New York how to live and they shouldn't tell Alabama how to live.

 

[Rigby5]

Socialism on steroids path has always been communism.

Our problem here is both sides are corrupt as hell feeding on the dollar and destroying it's value. It isn't Capitalism when the Gov't picks the winners.

There has never been any thing close to communism above the size of a small tribe or religious community.
Corruption and capitalism go hand in hand, because they both worship materialism.
It isn't a race so we should all be gaining, not just a select few "winners".

 

[Rigby5]

More local the better. Founding principle. Exactly why they spayed and neutered the fed.

By States handling their own affairs they choose their own fate and don't force it on others. I shouldn't tell New York how to live and they shouldn't tell Alabama how to live.

Sure, but that does not mean each state should not choose to be socialists.
All states have some natural resources, and if people collectively pool their excess capital to communally develop those natural resources for the benefit of all, then everyone profits instead of just the wealthy elite.

 

[eagle1462010]

There has never been any thing close to communism above the size of a small tribe or religious community.
Corruption and capitalism go hand in hand, because they both worship materialism.
It isn't a race so we should all be gaining, not just a select few "winners".

We do not have pure capitalism nor is the Stock Market doing what it was initially intended to do.

Our gov't is corrupt completely. They serve themselves and not the public. Even now with Covid they are more concerned with the money than the people. They suck.

 

[dblack]

It should, because It's complete bullshit. The right instills the constant red herring fear of socialism, always on the next rise in American society for as long as I've been breathing. The more extreme on the left seem to embrace socialism because they are young, dumb and inexperienced and have a tenuous grasp of history. The left 'Squad' don't ever mention it. I've yet to see a politician of any political stripe openly embrace socialism as a viable governing strategy/alternative.

Because this narrative holds no water. It's place in political discussion is a non-starter for me.

Of course not. They're all thoroughgoing corporatists. But they use the socialism spiel as cover. They get Bernie to whip the progressives into a frenzy, convincing them that they'll finally get all the "free shit" they want, but the same old power structure will prevails. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[eagle1462010]

Sure, but that does not mean each state should not choose to be socialists.
All states have some natural resources, and if people collectively pool their excess capital to communally develop those natural resources for the benefit of all, then everyone profits instead of just the wealthy elite.

The elite own the politicians. It's harder to own everyone locally. It can be done but much harder as locally the people see it easier.

We have a public who really doesn't know what's going on now. They don't look into it like we do.

 

[dblack]

Wrong.

Pompous and ignorant.

People decide what they want, and then they elect the candidates who will do it for them.
There is no other way.

Sure there is. There's the "**** you, homey don't play that" way. Ever heard of that?

If you do not collectively create government to do what the majority want, then the only alternative would be that the wealthy elite would control everything themselves instead.

No, that's not the only alternative. Open your mind. You don't have to eat shit.

 

[dblack]

Both ideas have massive flaws. We're sliding nicely into a caste system when Republicans are at the helm. A totalitarian police state with the Democrats. It boils down to what you lean into by your opinions on certain issues. Today, it's a right or wrong answer. Choose.

???

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Of course not. They're all thoroughgoing corporatists. But they use the socialism spiel as cover. They get Bernie to whip the progressives into a frenzy, convincing them that they'll finally get all the "free shit" they want, but the same old power structure will prevails. Wash, rinse, repeat.

And we sure as **** are super-passionate about it lately. It's annoying.

 

[dblack]

True.
But where to totalitarian regimes come from?

Dangerous misconceptions about the purpose of government. People who think that EVERYTHING should be run by government.

They come from the wealthy elite who can manipulate media or hire mercenaries.
They do not come from socialism, which is collective, communal, and cooperative, so therefore inherently democratic.

This is the principal conceit, the inane presumption, of modern Democrats. They believe that majority rule is infallible. That the majority can never make a bad decision and that the majority has the right, the sacred duty, to force its will on everyone else.

**** them.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

This is the principal conceit, the inane presumption, of modern Democrats. They believe that majority rule is infallible.

We could look at it's success rate.

 

[dblack]

We could look at it's success rate.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Sorry. Don't YouTube.