Should Elon Musk Audit Social Security?

[WorldWatcher]

Should Elon Musk Audit Social Security?​

Somebody should. I have no doubt that the SSA is rife with FWA.






Seniors who earn less than $25,000 per year (or $32,000 for married couples) of combined income (adjusted gross income, nontaxable interest and half of their Social Security benefits) do not pay taxes on their Social Security benefits.

Based on SSA data, about 27 million beneficiaries pay income taxes on their monthly benefits. These are people who generally receive other substantial income in addition to their benefits, meaning that wealthier retirees will benefit from Trump's proposed tax cuts.

Taxpayers filing individual tax returns may have to pay income tax on up to 50 percent of their Social Security benefits if their combined income is between $25,000 and $34,000, according to the SSA. If it is more than $34,000, beneficiaries may have to pay up to 85 percent of their Social Security checks in taxes.

These taxes represent a significant source of revenue for the program. While 95.1 percent of Social Security's funding came from dedicated tax revenues in 2023, 3.8 percent came from the federal income taxes that some beneficiaries pay on a portion of their benefits.

Social Security boost proposed for millions of Americans

Eliminating taxes on Social Security benefits for U.S. seniors is on Trump's agenda, press secretary Karoline Leavitt said.

www.newsweek.com

IMHO, people in the upper income brackets oughta be taxed on their SSA benefits to claw back at least some of that money. One can argue about where the line should be and how much they should be taxed, and I'm okay with that. But let's be honest here, SSA is going to have to be addressed at some point in less than 10 years and speeding up that date. As a retiree myself, I do not have a problem paying income taxes on my SSA benefits. I just wish the gov't was a little more circumspect when it comes to spending my taxdollars.

"IMHO, people in the upper income brackets oughta be taxed on their SSA benefits to claw back at least some of that money."

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. People with over $25K income already have their SS Benefits taxed on 50% and those over $34K are taxed on 85%.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

/—-/ It’s being uncovered as we speak—— and 2,000 times more that Commie Harris and Joe uncovered in four years.
Sorry DOGE isn’t cleaning up democRATs mess fast enough for you.

There have been no creditable reports of that magnitude of FWA in the Social Security Retirement program.

And no Musk tweets are not creditable reports.

WW

 

[Cellblock2429]

There have been no creditable reports of that magnitude of FWA in the Social Security Retirement program.

And no Musk tweets are not creditable reports.

WW

/—-/ And your USMB posts are credible reports? democRATs line up to deny these charges —— NOT.

 

[WorldWatcher]

/—-/ And your USMB posts are credible reports? democRATs line up to deny these charges —— NOT.

Nope, my USMB posts aren't.

But I've linked to news reports that did. Are you saying Fox News lied when it quoted?

I also linked to the Social Security Administration information about laws and revenues.

Finally here is the 2024 Trustee Report on "THE 2024 ANNUAL REPORT OF THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE FEDERAL OLD-AGE AND SURVIVORS INSURANCE AND FEDERAL DISABILITY INSURANCE TRUST FUNDS".

There is only one individual in this discussion that has provided creditable information to support his comments.

Glad I could supply such information to you.

BTW - Kroger's was swamped today as on the 1st and the 15th they have a 10% additional military discount.

WW
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www.ssa.gov

 

[Cellblock2429]

Nope, my USMB posts aren't.

But I've linked to news reports that did. Are you saying Fox News lied when it quoted?

I also linked to the Social Security Administration information about laws and revenues.

Finally here is the 2024 Trustee Report on "THE 2024 ANNUAL REPORT OF THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES OF THE FEDERAL OLD-AGE AND SURVIVORS INSURANCE AND FEDERAL DISABILITY INSURANCE TRUST FUNDS".

There is only one individual in this discussion that has provided creditable information to support his comments.

Glad I could supply such information to you.

BTW - Kroger's was swamped today as on the 1st and the 15th they have a 10% additional military discount.

WW
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Loading…

www.ssa.gov

/—-/ We’ll just have to wait and see.

 

[WorldWatcher]

/—-/ We’ll just have to wait and see.

Well of course.

We were discussing what will happen under the proposed changes.

WW

 

[frigidweirdo]

How did you arrive at that conclusion? That money that's being saved belongs to the American people not "the rich"! The waste and corruption that's being exposed doesn't help rich people as much as it does average people.

My question for you is if you don't think audits are "bad" then why haven't they been done by Congress or previous Administrations? The Left criticizes how these audits are being done...yet have shown ZERO willingness to do them themselves!

I'll give my example. Brexit.

The UK voted to leave the EU, the Brexit side said that the money saved would go to the NHS, it'd go to education, it'd fix the roads. It'd go to the people.

There was no money saved. The people got poorer, while some of the rich got richer. The pound dropped over night the day after the vote, and has never recovered. The people got poorer over night, who benefited? The bosses who sold things because their products got cheaper, so they could sell more of them. The people, who often take holidays abroad in the EU, had to pay more for those holidays, had to pay more for things coming into the country.

Brexit was also passed off as anti-immigration. "take back control" they said of the borders. Boris, one of the Brexit people, was PM when the UK had the highest ever immigration, and most of it was from Africa and India.

Even if they "audit" social security, and they get rid of the waste, the money won't go back into the pockets of the ordinary person, it'll go to the rich. The rich will get the tax cuts, the rich will shout about the trickle down "theory".

Look at Trump, he already did a huge tax cut for the rich in his first term.

 

[Man With A Plan]

I'll give my example. Brexit.

The UK voted to leave the EU, the Brexit side said that the money saved would go to the NHS, it'd go to education, it'd fix the roads. It'd go to the people.

There was no money saved. The people got poorer, while some of the rich got richer. The pound dropped over night the day after the vote, and has never recovered. The people got poorer over night, who benefited? The bosses who sold things because their products got cheaper, so they could sell more of them. The people, who often take holidays abroad in the EU, had to pay more for those holidays, had to pay more for things coming into the country.

Brexit was also passed off as anti-immigration. "take back control" they said of the borders. Boris, one of the Brexit people, was PM when the UK had the highest ever immigration, and most of it was from Africa and India.

Even if they "audit" social security, and they get rid of the waste, the money won't go back into the pockets of the ordinary person, it'll go to the rich. The rich will get the tax cuts, the rich will shout about the trickle down "theory".

Look at Trump, he already did a huge tax cut for the rich in his first term.

What happened in Great Britain has nothing to do with what Trump and Musk are doing, Frigid. The Trump Tax cuts were given to average Americans as well as wealthier ones. Explain how exposing fraud and waste in ANY Federal agency makes the money to to the rich! You have ZERO proof of that. For years the Deep State have been enriching themselves through rampant waste and corruption in the Government.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What happened in Great Britain has nothing to do with what Trump and Musk are doing, Frigid. The Trump Tax cuts were given to average Americans as well as wealthier ones. Explain how exposing fraud and waste in ANY Federal agency makes the money to to the rich! You have ZERO proof of that. For years the Deep State have been enriching themselves through rampant waste and corruption in the Government.

Sigh. I was giving AN EXAMPLE of when something happens, something populist, where the people say "this must happen because it'll make us richer" and in the end, the poor get poorer and the rich get richer.

I did not say Brexit had anything to do with Musk and Trump.

Seriously?

The Trump tax cuts were given to the rich mostly, and the poorer people much less.

Who Benefited Most From the Trump Tax Cuts? – Policygenius

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was the biggest tax reform since 1986, but data suggest that not all Americans benefited as much as the Trump administration promised.

www.policygenius.com

"Middle-class Americans saw mixed results as most of the benefits accrued to the highest earners."

"The TCJA lowered income tax rates, especially for higher-income Americans, and it lowered the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%."

"For example, the average refund was $90 higher, nationally, in 2018 than 2017. But the taxpayers who saw the largest refund increases had an adjusted gross income (AGI) of at least $200,000."

"On the whole, low-income families appear to have received the least savings, while high-income families saved the most."

It's pretty obvious that if you say "here's a carrot" to a person with very few carrots they'll be happy, and ignore the fact that you just gave a billion carrots to some due who already had a trillion.

It's a con artist's job every time.

The problem becomes even worse if you start adding more data to this.

Income inequality.

The rich have been getting richer and richer since the 1980s. The top 1% have been rising like they're watching Top Gun high on speed. The lowest 50% have not been getting richer since the 2000s, since Dubya and his conservative policies, his recession which cost 7 million people their homes (bought by rich people, who now use them as "investments" to get richer and push up property prices which mean the poor have to pay more for just a home to live in).

The right keep putting policies in place, hiding them as something the poor might want. "Look, here's a carrot, just don't look at the actual situation". Then at some point they get angry, like they did with inflation, blame Biden for it, even though it's mostly not about Biden, and then put Trump in power who'll put policies in place that will fuck the poor over again and again, but they won't see the results until after Trump's left office/died.

 

[Man With A Plan]

Sigh. I was giving AN EXAMPLE of when something happens, something populist, where the people say "this must happen because it'll make us richer" and in the end, the poor get poorer and the rich get richer.

I did not say Brexit had anything to do with Musk and Trump.

Seriously?

The Trump tax cuts were given to the rich mostly, and the poorer people much less.

Who Benefited Most From the Trump Tax Cuts? – Policygenius

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was the biggest tax reform since 1986, but data suggest that not all Americans benefited as much as the Trump administration promised.

www.policygenius.com

"Middle-class Americans saw mixed results as most of the benefits accrued to the highest earners."

"The TCJA lowered income tax rates, especially for higher-income Americans, and it lowered the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%."

"For example, the average refund was $90 higher, nationally, in 2018 than 2017. But the taxpayers who saw the largest refund increases had an adjusted gross income (AGI) of at least $200,000."

"On the whole, low-income families appear to have received the least savings, while high-income families saved the most."

It's pretty obvious that if you say "here's a carrot" to a person with very few carrots they'll be happy, and ignore the fact that you just gave a billion carrots to some due who already had a trillion.

It's a con artist's job every time.

The problem becomes even worse if you start adding more data to this.

Income inequality.

View attachment 1079242

The rich have been getting richer and richer since the 1980s. The top 1% have been rising like they're watching Top Gun high on speed. The lowest 50% have not been getting richer since the 2000s, since Dubya and his conservative policies, his recession which cost 7 million people their homes (bought by rich people, who now use them as "investments" to get richer and push up property prices which mean the poor have to pay more for just a home to live in).

The right keep putting policies in place, hiding them as something the poor might want. "Look, here's a carrot, just don't look at the actual situation". Then at some point they get angry, like they did with inflation, blame Biden for it, even though it's mostly not about Biden, and then put Trump in power who'll put policies in place that will fuck the poor over again and again, but they won't see the results until after Trump's left office/died.

Did you want to explain how the money saved by exposing waste and fraud goes to the rich, Frigid?

 

[Rawley]

Why are Republicans so hateful about the subject?

QED

 

[frigidweirdo]

Did you want to explain how the money saved by exposing waste and fraud goes to the rich, Frigid?

Yeah, again, Brexit is an example.

They said "The money we save will go to the NHS". Did it? No.

The rich got richer, the poor got poorer.

Who saved from Trump's tax cuts? Not the poor. They might have saved a little bit of money here and there, but it was the rich who got the money.

Everything we're seeing these days is the rich putting in policies that give them the benefits. They pay people loads of money to present it in a way that poor people will find acceptable, at least until they've figure out they got conned out of money.

Say they "audit" social security. They decide "hey, let's not give money here and here and here" so they save money. Some poor people will end up not getting social security when they need it. They'll have to take out loans. Who gets rich from the loans? The rich. The poor get poorer and poorer. The poor then have their home repossessed by the bank, who make money from it, selling it cheap to some rich person who then rents it out to some poor person who can't now afford to own a home, so they have to pay money continually, so the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.

It's been happening for a long time. Reagan's era saw more income inequality, Dubya's era saw more income inequality, Trump's era sees more income inequality. Hmm.... seems like the Republicans (not just the Republicans, the Democrats aren't any good either, but better than the shit that is the Republican Party).

The rich are getting smarter, they're understanding how to manipulate people, how to put policies in place that enrich themselves. Trump is a part of that, though he's not the brains behind it. The money has been coming from people like the Koch brothers who put billions into changing how people thing, putting money into bribing the right kinds of people (like "Bribe me" Thomas), getting the right people in Congress, pushing for people like Trump to get in to the presidency so they can get the "right people in the Supreme Court".

My first thought when I see them "auditing" social security is "what are they going to get out of it?" Why would they audit it if there's no gain for themselves?

 

[Man With A Plan]

Yeah, again, Brexit is an example.

They said "The money we save will go to the NHS". Did it? No.

The rich got richer, the poor got poorer.

Who saved from Trump's tax cuts? Not the poor. They might have saved a little bit of money here and there, but it was the rich who got the money.

Everything we're seeing these days is the rich putting in policies that give them the benefits. They pay people loads of money to present it in a way that poor people will find acceptable, at least until they've figure out they got conned out of money.

Say they "audit" social security. They decide "hey, let's not give money here and here and here" so they save money. Some poor people will end up not getting social security when they need it. They'll have to take out loans. Who gets rich from the loans? The rich. The poor get poorer and poorer. The poor then have their home repossessed by the bank, who make money from it, selling it cheap to some rich person who then rents it out to some poor person who can't now afford to own a home, so they have to pay money continually, so the rich get richer, the poor get poorer.

It's been happening for a long time. Reagan's era saw more income inequality, Dubya's era saw more income inequality, Trump's era sees more income inequality. Hmm.... seems like the Republicans (not just the Republicans, the Democrats aren't any good either, but better than the shit that is the Republican Party).

The rich are getting smarter, they're understanding how to manipulate people, how to put policies in place that enrich themselves. Trump is a part of that, though he's not the brains behind it. The money has been coming from people like the Koch brothers who put billions into changing how people thing, putting money into bribing the right kinds of people (like "Bribe me" Thomas), getting the right people in Congress, pushing for people like Trump to get in to the presidency so they can get the "right people in the Supreme Court".

My first thought when I see them "auditing" social security is "what are they going to get out of it?" Why would they audit it if there's no gain for themselves?

They're auditing Social Security because unfortunately, Social Security is rife with fraud and has been for years. Why you think getting rid of fraud and waste somehow means that the money saved will go to rich people, you still haven't explained. That money can go towards paying down the National Debt. All of the money saved from eliminating waste and fraud can go towards paying down the National Debt. Can you grasp how good that would be for the country? For everyone in the country? Instead of seeing the good in this however you resort to fear mongering...claiming that doing an audit on SS somehow means that poor people will not be paid their SS benefits...something that is obviously not true!

 

[Monoculturalist]

Social Security is like anything else in government. It needs an audit.

However, I think we should focus on auditing disability funding even more. That system probably has more fraud than even USAID.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Social Security is like anything else in government. It needs an audit.

However, I think we should focus on auditing disability funding even more. That system probably has more fraud than even USAID.

And that’s the important point. People lump SS all together. SS retirement and SS disability are different programs.

While I’m sure there is some fraud (which should be found and punished), there will be more in the disability side of the house.

Maybe we should call in an expert on medical fraud to help. I wonder if Sen. Rick Scott is available?

WW

 

[80zephyr]

You can't see most disabilities. My son, daughter-in-law and daughter are all disabled veterans. My son has PTSD and is 100%. My daughter injured her back and cannot lift anything. She is 80%. My daughter has an ankle and foot injury which means she cannot walk distances or stand still for any lengthy period. She is 80%. Only my daughter is employed and she has accommodations from her employer. You would never know by looking at them how much they are affected on a daily basis.

You may apologize for your insolence.

My problem is the absolute explosion of people claiming PTSD. Can you imagine what would have happened after WWII with these programs in place?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

My problem is the absolute explosion of people claiming PTSD. Can you imagine what would have happened after WWII with these programs in place?

That doesn't change the fact that he has it. He struggled through jobs working as an over the road truck driver and oil field worker before he was diagnosed. Now with the proper help, he is functional again, but he cannot work around morons. He will possibly snap and kill them.

 

[frigidweirdo]

They're auditing Social Security because unfortunately, Social Security is rife with fraud and has been for years. Why you think getting rid of fraud and waste somehow means that the money saved will go to rich people, you still haven't explained. That money can go towards paying down the National Debt. All of the money saved from eliminating waste and fraud can go towards paying down the National Debt. Can you grasp how good that would be for the country? For everyone in the country? Instead of seeing the good in this however you resort to fear mongering...claiming that doing an audit on SS somehow means that poor people will not be paid their SS benefits...something that is obviously not true!

Yes, I got that. Why is social security rife with fraud?

Fraud Prevention and Reporting | SSA

www.ssa.gov

"

• Making false statements on claims.
• Concealing facts or events that affect eligibility for benefits.
• Misusing benefits (by a representative payee).
• Failing to notify the agency of the death of a beneficiary and continuing to receive the deceased person’s benefits.

• Buying or selling Social Security cards.
• Filing claims under another person’s Social Security number (SSN).
• Scamming people by impersonating our employees.
• Bribing our employees.
• Misusing grant or contract funds."

Seems like they already know about fraud, and they're already trying to stop fraud. An audit will probably just focus on things they already know, either that or focus on the political "we want to 'prove' that this is bad" like Dubya Bush did with WMDs.

Surely Trump could easily employ someone who has this knowledge already.

 

[Man With A Plan]

Yes, I got that. Why is social security rife with fraud?

Fraud Prevention and Reporting | SSA

www.ssa.gov

"

• Making false statements on claims.
• Concealing facts or events that affect eligibility for benefits.
• Misusing benefits (by a representative payee).
• Failing to notify the agency of the death of a beneficiary and continuing to receive the deceased person’s benefits.
• Buying or selling Social Security cards.
• Filing claims under another person’s Social Security number (SSN).
• Scamming people by impersonating our employees.
• Bribing our employees.
• Misusing grant or contract funds."

Seems like they already know about fraud, and they're already trying to stop fraud. An audit will probably just focus on things they already know, either that or focus on the political "we want to 'prove' that this is bad" like Dubya Bush did with WMDs.

Surely Trump could easily employ someone who has this knowledge already.

Aren't you coming to the realization that almost ALL Federal Agencies are rife with fraud and the bigger they are...the larger the amount of fraud there is?

Just as a general matter...you NEVER have people self audit! You always want audits done by someone from the outside.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Aren't you coming to the realization that almost ALL Federal Agencies are rife with fraud and the bigger they are...the larger the amount of fraud there is?

Just as a general matter...you NEVER have people self audit! You always want audits done by someone from the outside.

And again, if there's such obvious fraud, the solution isn't to find it. The solution is to CHANGE it.

You audit it, you find some huge fraud in there, then what? Shout "fraud" and get some people who have been committing fraud, and then go back to the same system that allowed the fraud in the first place?

The reality is, the social security fraud that I can see is done by individuals to get a bit more money. You have ten million people getting an extra 10 bucks a month, that's a lot of money for the country. But in reality it's not an issue of an audit.

An audit would be that some individual is taking out huge amounts for themselves.

And then what else do you focus on? Trump is going in and he's using government to enrich the rich. It's the same kind of fraud, and yet... nothing.

The whole government needs to change, a new electoral system to change the mentality of the candidates and the voters.

Right now with FPTP it's incredibly negative and leads to bizarre results. We can see in Germany in 2017 the CDU/CSU got 77% of the seats with 36% of the votes. The Tories in the UK with FPTP won plenty of elections without ever getting more votes than the left wing. And Trump and Dubya both became president for the first time with less votes than the other candidate.

Money is buying people's vote and leading to huge corruption all over the government.

But Trump comes along and says "audit this" instead of saying "let's deal with the root of the problem".... It all sounds like the same crap that politicians use to squeeze more money out of the system for themselves at the expense of others.