Should Detroit's municipal retirees lose their pensions?

[thanatos144]

Just because something is going to happen doesn't mean we should be happy about it like the libertarians seem to be. It is like they are taking glee in the harm the victims will get....Cause lets not make any mistake those losing their pension cause of liberal and union thievery are victims.

 

[Edgetho]

Just because something is going to happen doesn't mean we should be happy about it like the libertarians seem to be. It is like they are taking glee in the harm the victims will get....Cause lets not make any mistake those losing their pension cause of liberal and union thievery are victims.

No, they're not.

They're accomplices

 

[thanatos144]

and any pensions paid should also get pennies on the dollar.... if that at all.

Why? all pensions according to Michigan constitution should have already been paid for. If not and they get pennies on the dollar it means WE the people have committed fraud. It will be a sad day... It is gong to happen I know but it is a sad day.

really.... you think they are paid for???





they are funded with investments.... they are not "paid" for. How does one pay for something that is open ended? You get someone who works for 20 years and retires.... and then collects a pension for another 30+ years? Do tell.... how do you pay for that up front?

sorry... the unions screwed the pooch on this one.

If your going to act the ass at least comprehend what I wrote. I only stated the fact what Michigan's constitution said and that we already know the pensions have been raped. Unlike you I dont see thins as a victory. No I see this as victims again getting harmed.

 

[g5000]

what happens here is going to probably be the template for what happens in many cities across the country....and those government people should have seen it coming....they had 50 years warning in Detroit....

inflated government pensions and limosine healthcare plans are going to evaporate or be cut to the bone....the money is just not there....

but since they are Dimocraps i'm sure they will be just fine with food stamps and welfare plus paying for their own Obammycare like all the many other underpaid/underemployed/jobless people in this country..

The first idiotic idea that needs to go is that this is some kind of Democratic thing. It isn't. This is a bi-partisan Fuckup Royale. See my previous post about New Jersey.

There was a big government giveaway during the Wall Street derivatives bubble by both parties. Massive spending sprees across the board. Big new public buildings, new constructions on college campuses, and so forth. All funded with muni bonds. Debt.

Big public employee benefit increases, coupled with decreases in government contributions in the insanely stupid belief that ROI was going to be in the double digits from now on.

All supercharged with derivatives swaps which multiplied the base debt and subsequent interest payments with each iteration. Take a good look at the chart for Jefferson County to which I linked. This has been going on all across the country right under our noses for over a decade.

 

[thanatos144]

Just because something is going to happen doesn't mean we should be happy about it like the libertarians seem to be. It is like they are taking glee in the harm the victims will get....Cause lets not make any mistake those losing their pension cause of liberal and union thievery are victims.

No, they're not.

They're accomplices

They work 30 or 40 years and they are accomplices?????

 

[martybegan]

what happens here is going to probably be the template for what happens in many cities across the country....and those government people should have seen it coming....they had 50 years warning in Detroit....

inflated government pensions and limosine healthcare plans are going to evaporate or be cut to the bone....the money is just not there....

but since they are Dimocraps i'm sure they will be just fine with food stamps and welfare plus paying for their own Obammycare like all the many other underpaid/underemployed/jobless people in this country..

The first idiotic idea that needs to go is that this is some kind of Democratic thing. It isn't. This is a bi-partisan Fuckup Royale. See my previous post about New Jersey.

There was a big government giveaway during the Wall Street derivatives bubble by both parties. Massive spending sprees across the board. Big new public buildings, new constructions on college campuses, and so forth. All funded with muni bonds. Debt.

Big public employee benefit increases, coupled with decreases in government contributions in the insanely stupid belief that ROI was going to be in the double digits from now on.

All supercharged with derivatives swaps which multiplied the base debt and subsequent interest payments with each iteration. Take a good look at the chart for Jefferson County to which I linked. This has been going on all across the country right under our noses for over a decade.

How is a crisis from 2008 responsible for decades of under the table giveways and lack of funding?

 

[syrenn]

Just because something is going to happen doesn't mean we should be happy about it like the libertarians seem to be. It is like they are taking glee in the harm the victims will get....Cause lets not make any mistake those losing their pension cause of liberal and union thievery are victims.

what makes you think anyone is happy about any of this?


understanding the problem, and dealing with..... *gasp* ...reality..... is not "happy" any of this is happening.

I feel very sorry for them.... but the free ride is over. They need to deal with that.

 

[syrenn]

Why? all pensions according to Michigan constitution should have already been paid for. If not and they get pennies on the dollar it means WE the people have committed fraud. It will be a sad day... It is gong to happen I know but it is a sad day.

really.... you think they are paid for???





they are funded with investments.... they are not "paid" for. How does one pay for something that is open ended? You get someone who works for 20 years and retires.... and then collects a pension for another 30+ years? Do tell.... how do you pay for that up front?

sorry... the unions screwed the pooch on this one.

If your going to act the ass at least comprehend what I wrote. I only stated the fact what Michigan's constitution said and that we already know the pensions have been raped. Unlike you I dont see thins as a victory. No I see this as victims again getting harmed.

trust me... your "victims" did not think they were victims when they were voting unions and liberal freebies and more more more......

 

[thanatos144]

Just because something is going to happen doesn't mean we should be happy about it like the libertarians seem to be. It is like they are taking glee in the harm the victims will get....Cause lets not make any mistake those losing their pension cause of liberal and union thievery are victims.

what makes you think anyone is happy about any of this?


understanding the problem, and dealing with..... *gasp* ...reality..... is not "happy" any of this is happening.

I feel very sorry for them.... but the free ride is over. They need to deal with that.

Thats the point their ride wasn't free. They worked for their pension. You know who is getting a free ride? Politicians and union executives.

 

[candycorn]

Lots of talk about doing that and i say go for it. These were all affirmative action hires and didn't deserve the job in the first place.

Oh bull shit; you have no idea that they were "all" anything fuckwad. You're god-damned retarded.

That being said, no they shouldn't lose their pensions. Unfortunately they will. Sign of the times.

 

[Avatar4321]

No, they shouldn't lose their pensions. But chances are they will because the politicians lied to them and never had the money to pay them.

I have no expectation of ever seeing my pension. Of course, Im not planning on retiring either.

 

[thanatos144]

really.... you think they are paid for???





they are funded with investments.... they are not "paid" for. How does one pay for something that is open ended? You get someone who works for 20 years and retires.... and then collects a pension for another 30+ years? Do tell.... how do you pay for that up front?

sorry... the unions screwed the pooch on this one.

If your going to act the ass at least comprehend what I wrote. I only stated the fact what Michigan's constitution said and that we already know the pensions have been raped. Unlike you I dont see thins as a victory. No I see this as victims again getting harmed.

trust me... your "victims" did not think they were victims when they were voting unions and liberal freebies and more more more......

So you wouldn't want the best deal you can get???????? They were sold a bill of goods. Their greed was fanned by union leadership.

 

[thanatos144]

It was a giant con game. I just wish the people running this would see jail time but to add insult to injury we will never see that.

 

[martybegan]

If your going to act the ass at least comprehend what I wrote. I only stated the fact what Michigan's constitution said and that we already know the pensions have been raped. Unlike you I dont see thins as a victory. No I see this as victims again getting harmed.

trust me... your "victims" did not think they were victims when they were voting unions and liberal freebies and more more more......

So you wouldn't want the best deal you can get???????? They were sold a bill of goods. Their greed was fanned by union leadership.

So basically they need to be given a pass and everyone else has to take the fall for it.

This is a zero sum game being played in detroit, barring any mircale growth and population recovery. You have to either cut money going out, or get more money coming in. As the tax base is already shot, the only way to ger more money in is via the state or feds, and thus the people and workers of detrioit get bailed out by the rest of us for thier own idiocy.

Then municipality after municipality will do the same thing. There will be no repercussions for spending and promising more than you are able to pay, until of course the final federal bill comes to tally and there is no level higher to then bail thier asses out.

 

[thanatos144]

trust me... your "victims" did not think they were victims when they were voting unions and liberal freebies and more more more......

So you wouldn't want the best deal you can get???????? They were sold a bill of goods. Their greed was fanned by union leadership.

So basically they need to be given a pass and everyone else has to take the fall for it.

This is a zero sum game being played in detroit, barring any mircale growth and population recovery. You have to either cut money going out, or get more money coming in. As the tax base is already shot, the only way to ger more money in is via the state or feds, and thus the people and workers of detrioit get bailed out by the rest of us for thier own idiocy.

Then municipality after municipality will do the same thing. There will be no repercussions for spending and promising more than you are able to pay, until of course the final federal bill comes to tally and there is no level higher to then bail thier asses out.

What I want is for the American people to keep their word.

 

[syrenn]

So you wouldn't want the best deal you can get???????? They were sold a bill of goods. Their greed was fanned by union leadership.

So basically they need to be given a pass and everyone else has to take the fall for it.

This is a zero sum game being played in detroit, barring any mircale growth and population recovery. You have to either cut money going out, or get more money coming in. As the tax base is already shot, the only way to ger more money in is via the state or feds, and thus the people and workers of detrioit get bailed out by the rest of us for thier own idiocy.

Then municipality after municipality will do the same thing. There will be no repercussions for spending and promising more than you are able to pay, until of course the final federal bill comes to tally and there is no level higher to then bail thier asses out.

What I want is for the American people to keep their word.

Bankruptcy...... the new American peoples reality for spending more then you have...and voting for more more more freebies.

The word is only as good as the cash to back it up.

 

[martybegan]

So you wouldn't want the best deal you can get???????? They were sold a bill of goods. Their greed was fanned by union leadership.

So basically they need to be given a pass and everyone else has to take the fall for it.

This is a zero sum game being played in detroit, barring any mircale growth and population recovery. You have to either cut money going out, or get more money coming in. As the tax base is already shot, the only way to ger more money in is via the state or feds, and thus the people and workers of detrioit get bailed out by the rest of us for thier own idiocy.

Then municipality after municipality will do the same thing. There will be no repercussions for spending and promising more than you are able to pay, until of course the final federal bill comes to tally and there is no level higher to then bail thier asses out.

What I want is for the American people to keep their word.

The problem is it wasnt the american people, it was the "people" of Detroit. In actuality it was the politicans of Detroit buying votes with pension promises they KNEW other people would have to worry about. They then compounded by not funding said pensions properly so they would be self sustaining. Look at other union type operations like construction. The unions themselves control the pensions, and thus make damn sure they get enough coming in to cover thier expenses.

But when the government runs them, politicans see it as a giant piggy bank, to be used to garner votes, and to be left for someone else to deal with it when the bill comes due.

The bills are now coming due, and no class of creditors should be allowed to take precedence over another.

 

[syrenn]

Just because something is going to happen doesn't mean we should be happy about it like the libertarians seem to be. It is like they are taking glee in the harm the victims will get....Cause lets not make any mistake those losing their pension cause of liberal and union thievery are victims.

what makes you think anyone is happy about any of this?


understanding the problem, and dealing with..... *gasp* ...reality..... is not "happy" any of this is happening.

I feel very sorry for them.... but the free ride is over. They need to deal with that.

Thats the point their ride wasn't free. They worked for their pension. You know who is getting a free ride? Politicians and union executives.

they worked for an inflated union voted in or we are going to strike pension.... which is no longer feasible to pay.


oh... they were very happy when they voted in said politicians and union demands for more free benefits.....

 

[thanatos144]

So basically they need to be given a pass and everyone else has to take the fall for it.

This is a zero sum game being played in detroit, barring any mircale growth and population recovery. You have to either cut money going out, or get more money coming in. As the tax base is already shot, the only way to ger more money in is via the state or feds, and thus the people and workers of detrioit get bailed out by the rest of us for thier own idiocy.

Then municipality after municipality will do the same thing. There will be no repercussions for spending and promising more than you are able to pay, until of course the final federal bill comes to tally and there is no level higher to then bail thier asses out.

What I want is for the American people to keep their word.

The problem is it wasnt the american people, it was the "people" of Detroit. In actuality it was the politicans of Detroit buying votes with pension promises they KNEW other people would have to worry about. They then compounded by not funding said pensions properly so they would be self sustaining. Look at other union type operations like construction. The unions themselves control the pensions, and thus make damn sure they get enough coming in to cover thier expenses.

But when the government runs them, politicans see it as a giant piggy bank, to be used to garner votes, and to be left for someone else to deal with it when the bill comes due.

The bills are now coming due, and no class of creditors should be allowed to take precedence over another.

We live in a republican.... Those politicians are an extension of us.

 

[syrenn]

If your going to act the ass at least comprehend what I wrote. I only stated the fact what Michigan's constitution said and that we already know the pensions have been raped. Unlike you I dont see thins as a victory. No I see this as victims again getting harmed.

trust me... your "victims" did not think they were victims when they were voting unions and liberal freebies and more more more......

So you wouldn't want the best deal you can get???????? They were sold a bill of goods. Their greed was fanned by union leadership.

i agree... the unions sold them a bill of goods.

Their greed is now coming home to roost.


oh... and if you have not caught on yet.....i have no love for the unions......