Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Syriusly]

yep not one poster has suggested that Churches be 'forced' to marry any persons- homosexual, jew, black, Canadian- against the policy or will of the church.

No church should or will be forced to marry anyone against its will.

Just a scare tactic by homophobes to incite resentment towards homosexuals.

Again, the church resides within the breast of each man..

Anyone can claim to have a 'church within' and thereby excuse any behavior.

That is why there is a distinction between a church and an individual.

Meanwhile back on topic

yep not one poster has suggested that Churches be 'forced' to marry any persons- homosexual, jew, black, Canadian- against the policy or will of the church.

No church should or will be forced to marry anyone against its will.

Just a scare tactic by homophobes to incite resentment towards homosexuals

 

[Syriusly]

[Q
3. Gay lifestyles do not qualify for "civil rights", unless they themselves want to be recognized as a religion. Non-religious lifestyles do not have legal power to force anyone to promote them over their own religion..

Says who? If the State of Colorado or whatever decides to enact a law saying that sexual preference is to be treated like gender, or religion or race or handicap and require business's to do business with persons without discrimination- they can do so.

 

[beagle9]

And because of the unlearned or inexperience of young people, this nation should change everything for them ? Since when did the day care start being run by the children instead of by the adults ? What's going to be crazy is when the young people someday wake up and realize that they have been duped. Then what ?

Or....perhaps they'll grow into adults who don't retain the pointless discriminatory instincts and naked bigotry of previous generations. Just as your generation did when putting behind them the shameless bigotry against race that riddled the generations before you. Its unlikely that you're going to 'wake up' and suddenly start to institute segregation or Jim Crow laws.

Its equally unlikely that young people are going to suddenly wake up and decide they need to start discriminating against gays for no particular reason.

In another generation we're going to look back at attitudes such as yours with the same dumbfounded wonder and incomprehension as we do now listening to Wallace and his 'segregation now, segregation forever' speeches. And ask ourselves how people could have been so foolish back then.

OR NOT....

 

[Skylar]

And because of the unlearned or inexperience of young people, this nation should change everything for them ? Since when did the day care start being run by the children instead of by the adults ? What's going to be crazy is when the young people someday wake up and realize that they have been duped. Then what ?

Or....perhaps they'll grow into adults who don't retain the pointless discriminatory instincts and naked bigotry of previous generations. Just as your generation did when putting behind them the shameless bigotry against race that riddled the generations before you. Its unlikely that you're going to 'wake up' and suddenly start to institute segregation or Jim Crow laws.

Its equally unlikely that young people are going to suddenly wake up and decide they need to start discriminating against gays for no particular reason.

In another generation we're going to look back at attitudes such as yours with the same dumbfounded wonder and incomprehension as we do now listening to Wallace and his 'segregation now, segregation forever' speeches. And ask ourselves how people could have been so foolish back then.

OR NOT....

Given how consistently our nation has been moving away from pointless bigotry and discrimination over time, it seems unlikely that this trend would inexplicably reverse itself for no particular reason.

 

[beagle9]

[Q
3. Gay lifestyles do not qualify for "civil rights", unless they themselves want to be recognized as a religion. Non-religious lifestyles do not have legal power to force anyone to promote them over their own religion..

Says who? If the State of Colorado or whatever decides to enact a law saying that sexual preference is to be treated like gender, or religion or race or handicap and require business's to do business with persons without discrimination- they can do so.

People are taking this government and using in it almost anyway imaginable, but they are the only ones allowed to do so, everyone else is just abused by it all and/or in the aftermath of it.

 

[beagle9]

And because of the unlearned or inexperience of young people, this nation should change everything for them ? Since when did the day care start being run by the children instead of by the adults ? What's going to be crazy is when the young people someday wake up and realize that they have been duped. Then what ?

Or....perhaps they'll grow into adults who don't retain the pointless discriminatory instincts and naked bigotry of previous generations. Just as your generation did when putting behind them the shameless bigotry against race that riddled the generations before you. Its unlikely that you're going to 'wake up' and suddenly start to institute segregation or Jim Crow laws.

Its equally unlikely that young people are going to suddenly wake up and decide they need to start discriminating against gays for no particular reason.

In another generation we're going to look back at attitudes such as yours with the same dumbfounded wonder and incomprehension as we do now listening to Wallace and his 'segregation now, segregation forever' speeches. And ask ourselves how people could have been so foolish back then.

OR NOT....

Given how consistently our nation has been moving away from pointless bigotry and discrimination over time, it seems unlikely that this trend would inexplicably reverse itself for no particular reason.

Even if what is being tried may be found out to be wrong, but still no reversing itself ? That's kind of dumb isn't it ?

 

[Skylar]

And because of the unlearned or inexperience of young people, this nation should change everything for them ? Since when did the day care start being run by the children instead of by the adults ? What's going to be crazy is when the young people someday wake up and realize that they have been duped. Then what ?

Or....perhaps they'll grow into adults who don't retain the pointless discriminatory instincts and naked bigotry of previous generations. Just as your generation did when putting behind them the shameless bigotry against race that riddled the generations before you. Its unlikely that you're going to 'wake up' and suddenly start to institute segregation or Jim Crow laws.

Its equally unlikely that young people are going to suddenly wake up and decide they need to start discriminating against gays for no particular reason.

In another generation we're going to look back at attitudes such as yours with the same dumbfounded wonder and incomprehension as we do now listening to Wallace and his 'segregation now, segregation forever' speeches. And ask ourselves how people could have been so foolish back then.

OR NOT....

Given how consistently our nation has been moving away from pointless bigotry and discrimination over time, it seems unlikely that this trend would inexplicably reverse itself for no particular reason.

Even if what is being tried may be found out to be wrong, but still no reversing itself ? That's kind of dumb isn't it ?

That assumes what is being tried is wrong. And that's an assumption I'm not willing to share with you. Nor are most of the young people. Hell, even republicans have moved dramatically on gay marriage, with far more supporting it now than ever before.

That may be a product of changing views ....or those opposing gay marriage simply dying of old age. Either way the trend is pretty dramatic.

 

[beagle9]

And because of the unlearned or inexperience of young people, this nation should change everything for them ? Since when did the day care start being run by the children instead of by the adults ? What's going to be crazy is when the young people someday wake up and realize that they have been duped. Then what ?

Or....perhaps they'll grow into adults who don't retain the pointless discriminatory instincts and naked bigotry of previous generations. Just as your generation did when putting behind them the shameless bigotry against race that riddled the generations before you. Its unlikely that you're going to 'wake up' and suddenly start to institute segregation or Jim Crow laws.

Its equally unlikely that young people are going to suddenly wake up and decide they need to start discriminating against gays for no particular reason.

In another generation we're going to look back at attitudes such as yours with the same dumbfounded wonder and incomprehension as we do now listening to Wallace and his 'segregation now, segregation forever' speeches. And ask ourselves how people could have been so foolish back then.

OR NOT....

Given how consistently our nation has been moving away from pointless bigotry and discrimination over time, it seems unlikely that this trend would inexplicably reverse itself for no particular reason.

Even if what is being tried may be found out to be wrong, but still no reversing itself ? That's kind of dumb isn't it ?

That assumes what is being tried is wrong. And that's an assumption I'm not willing to share with you. Nor are most of the young people. Hell, even republicans have moved dramatically on gay marriage, with far more supporting it now than ever before.

That may be a product of changing views ....or those opposing gay marriage simply dying of old age. Either way the trend is pretty dramatic.

You do a lot of assuming, but you get angry when others do the same thing ? Nobody knows the future or what it holds for this nation, and why do you assume that I am against gay's as in human beings or as American citizens who should keep their sex life private like everyone else should do the same ? I'm not, but when a Mr's America contestant is attacked by this militancy, and Phil of duck dynasty is also attacked along with so many others in which the list is getting very long now, then I have a problem with that because it is targeting Christians every time in these attacks. Christianity was the bedrock of this nation for hundreds of years, and it is responsible for all the positive changes this nation has had over the years, but now it can't even put up a nativity scene where no one has a problem with it except for a militant who is deciding what ever is the supposed quirk of the day he or she wants to advocate or be a part of ? People are getting sick of it all is what I think..

 

[Skylar]

You do a lot of assuming, but you get angry when others do the same thing ?

I'm doing no more than you, who baselessly assumes what is being done is 'wrong'. And in my favor I have decades of abandonment of pointless bigotry and discrimination.

Why would this trend inexplicably change for no particular reason?

And 'get angry'? I haven't gotten angry at any of your posts. Perhaps you're projecting.

Nobody knows the future or what it holds for this nation, and why do you assume that I am against gay's as in human beings or as American citizens who should keep their sex life private like everyone else should do the same ?

I don't claim to know the future. I claim to use the available evidence to make predictions of what's likely. We have generations of movement toward acceptance and away from bigotry and discrimination, across the board. Race, religion, gender, even sexual orientation.

We also have powerful trends today where support for gay marriage outpaces opposition by 12 to 19 points, with no signs of stopping. This year Gallup recorded its highest level of support for gay marriage on record: 55%. And among moderates, liberals, independents and the young....support is closer to 60% to 70%.

Why would this change? You can't give me a reason. You just imagine it will. That's not evidence. Where polling and generations long trends toward acceptance are evidence. And they explicitly contradict you.

Christianity was the bedrock of this nation for hundreds of years, and it is responsible for all the positive changes this nation has had over the years, but now it can't even put up a nativity scene where no one has a problem with it except for a militant who is deciding what ever is the supposed quirk of the day he or she wants to advocate or be a part of

I think trying to define your faith by opposition to it is a losing game. The Wiccans tried it. It didn't work out well. You'll need to convince each generation of the value of what you offer. And Christianity isn't working toward that goal effectively with opposition to gays. Which is why many Christians are abandoning such opposition or deprioritizing it.

People are getting sick of it all is what I think..

I think you're projecting again, assuming that if you're sick of Christians being criticized, everyone else must share your views.

That's not necessarily the case.

 

[Silhouette]

The church of LGBT will attack and force christian organizations to participate in the promotion of their subculture over the christian one.

Doing business with someone isn't 'promoting their lifestyle'. Its promoting the good or service being sold. Not the customer...

We are talking about marriage here, not selling turnips by the pound. Marriage is the foundation of any society. Turnips are not. Marriage is the formative environment states incentivize for our most precious resource as a society: our children. Turnips are not. Promoting gay marriage in any way shape or form is one and the same, inseperable from promoting that spread within a culture at its core. Promoting turnips is not.

I know you can see the difference.

 

[Skylar]

We are talking about marriage here, not selling turnips by the pound.

Doing business with a gay person doesn't mean you have to marry them. You're not the one getting married. You're the one selling cake.

And there's no biblical prohibition against selling cake to gay people.

Marriage is the foundation of any society. Turnips are not.

Gay people aren't turnips. Rendering your analogy both surprisingly irrelevant and surprisingly bizarre.

Promoting gay marriage in any way shape or form is one and the same, inseperable from promoting that spread within a culture at its core. Promoting turnips is not.

Doing business with a gay person isn't 'promoting' them or their lifestyle. Its promoting a good or service. Not a customer. The entire premise of your argument is nonsense.

 

[Silhouette]

Doing business with a gay person isn't 'promoting' them or their lifestyle. Its promoting a good or service. Not a customer. The entire premise of your argument is nonsense.

Under normal circumstances I do not know how anyone would know a person practices a deviant sex lifestyle unless they were inappropriately advertising their sex life in public (exhibitionism). But they certainly would know if that person requested the shop keep to participate in their gay wedding.

That's the crucial difference. And you already know that....

The core of any culture is marriage. So a homosexual asking a christian to participate IN ANY WAY in promoting a gay marriage is inseperable conceptually from that homosexual asking a christian to usurp society at its core and replace it with LGBT cult values. Since any church resides in its most important essence within the heart of each man, no homosexual may require them in any walk of their life to participate in their "gay marriage".

Again, we aren't talking about a homosexual being denied turnips for sale by a produce store. We are talking about a homosexual being denied a leg-up to usurp the core of christian values at their heart (marriage). No homosexual has the right to ask a christian to abdicate his religion in favor of promoting the LGBT religion to strike at the heart of christian culture (marriage) with a depraved torpedo..

 

[Skylar]

Doing business with a gay person isn't 'promoting' them or their lifestyle. Its promoting a good or service. Not a customer. The entire premise of your argument is nonsense.

Under normal circumstances I do not know how anyone would know a person practices a deviant sex lifestyle unless they were inappropriately advertising their sex life in public (exhibitionism). But they certainly would know if that person requested the shop keep to participate in their gay wedding.

The shop sells cake. Folks are buying cake. That's not 'promoting' anything other than cake. You don't promote the customer when you sell them something. You promote the product.

The central premise of your argument, that selling a customer something promotes the customer, is blithering nonsense. Any argument based on that premise is similarly nonsense. You can't get around that.

So a homosexual asking a christian to participate IN ANY WAY in promoting a gay marriage is inseperable conceptually from that homosexual asking a christian to usurp society at its core and replace it with LGBT cult values.

Um, nope. The idea that selling a product to a customer promotes the customer is simple nonsense. And gay marriage doesn't 'usurp' society. Or cause it any harm at all. Gay marriage prevents harm to those denied the right to marry and their children. As the courts have already found. And LGBT isn't a cult. Its just a group of people.

You managed to pack 3 fallacies into one sentence. That's some potent babble density right there.

Since any church resides in its most important essence within the heart of each man, no homosexual may require them in any walk of their life to participate in their "gay marriage".

You're not a church, Silo. You're not a mosque. You're not a synagogue. You're a person. After creatively reimagining the word 'promote', now you're making up a brand new version of the word 'church'. Your problem is that words already have meanings. And you pulling an imaginary made up one out of your ass is meaningless jibber jabber. As it has no relevance to anyone but you.

And you aren't the basis of any legal ruling.

Again, we aren't talking about a homosexual being denied turnips for sale by a produce store. We are talking about a homosexual being denied a leg-up to usurp the core of christian values at their heart (marriage).

Save of course, that homosexuals aren't usurping society by getting married. They're contributing to it. There's no harm being done to you. There's nothing being taken away from you when a gay person gets married. You've imagined harm that doesn't exist, and then insist that we have to deprive people of fundamental rights based on your imagination.

Um, no. We don't.

No homosexual has the right to ask a christian to abdicate his religion in favor of promoting the LGBT religion to strike at the heart of christian culture (marriage) with a depraved torpedo..

There's no biblical prohibition against selling someone cake. So the commandment being violated by selling cake is non-existent.

If you want to do business with the public, you're subject to the basic standards of conduct with your customers based on the laws of your state. You have to treat your customers fairly and equally. 'We don't serve your kind here' may have been superb fair at southern lunch counters in the 50s. But its invalid clap trap by the laws of today.

 

[Silhouette]

What about if the gay couple wants "just married" or two figurines of the same gender on the cake? What about caterers who would have to attend the gay reception? And photographers?

Nope, none of those people can be made to promote gay lifestyle marriage that violates the core of their faith. Once they are aware of what's going on, they have every right to refuse. Like I said, they're not selling turnips. It's marriage. And that changes everything from a faith based point of view.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

What about if the gay couple wants "just married" or two figurines of the same gender on the cake? What about caterers who would have to attend the gay reception? And photographers?

Nope, none of those people can be made to promote gay lifestyle marriage that violates the core of their faith. Once they are aware of what's going on, they have every right to refuse. Like I said, they're not selling turnips. It's marriage. And that changes everything from a faith based point of view.

Business is business my little homophobe. Take the money, and bake the cake.

 

[Syriusly]

Doing business with a gay person isn't 'promoting' them or their lifestyle. Its promoting a good or service. Not a customer. The entire premise of your argument is nonsense.

Under normal circumstances I do not know how anyone would know a person practices a deviant sex lifestyle unless they were inappropriately advertising their sex life in public (exhibitionism). But they certainly would know if that person requested the shop keep to participate in their gay wedding...

When my wife and I ordered our wedding cake- I really hope the baker wasn't thinking about our sex life.

And if you worked in a bakery- I really, really hope, you wouldn't spend your time fantasizing about the sex life of every couple that comes in an orders a wedding cake.

That is really creepy.

 

[Silhouette]

Business is business my little homophobe. Take the money, and bake the cake.

NO.

And I would walk that "NO" straight to the supreme court and kick your ass all the way back to the bath house with the 1st Amendment.

 

[Silhouette]

When my wife and I ordered our wedding cake- I really hope the baker wasn't thinking about our sex life.

And if you worked in a bakery- I really, really hope, you wouldn't spend your time fantasizing about the sex life of every couple that comes in an orders a wedding cake.

That is really creepy.

You do have a gift for derailing a point, don't you? That is the art form of the hired LGBT blogger...

Two women marrying means deviants. It doesn't have to involve sex. The christian baker could be thinking with disapproval and shock at how the children will not have a father in the case of lesbians or a mother in the case of gay men. That is a shocking concept that a state would be forced by illegal lower courts in contempt of Windsor 2013 to have to incentivize...

Child abuse shocks people. Your mind is in the gutter 24-7. You cannot conceive from your point of view that anyone might have other objections to your lifestyle trying to "marry".

BTW, you and your partner had better go to a state with legal gay marriage because it never has been legal in California. The people voted it down twice. That is the standing law in the CA Constitution today and cannot be changed by an activist lower court in contempt of SCOTUS (The Supremes did not rule on the merits of Prop 8), nor seditious governor or AG. The People have the ultimate power of legislating in that state and Windsor describes that each state has the "unquestioned authority" on thumbs up or down to gay marriage until further notice...

If you want to marry legally as a person doing the gay lifestyle (for now until one of you "Anne Heche's" on the other), you must do so in a state that has allowed it by its own Will and not fake gay marriages going on in states participating in forced sedition..

 

[mdk]

Another year has gone and not a single church has been forced to marry anyone against their wishes. Maybe the fear-mongering will work better next year but I highly doubt it.

 

[Silhouette]

Another year has gone and not a single church has been forced to marry anyone against their wishes. Maybe the fear-mongering will work better next year but I highly doubt it.

Many years went by without gays forcing christian bakers and photographers into court...before they actually became emboldened enough to do so recently.

I wonder how long it will be if SCOTUS overturns Windsor 2013 and forces gay marraige upon the unwilling states, before the lawsuits against churches will start "after so many years of not"...?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to deduce from what's happening today into what will happen tomorrow of a same or similar nature from the same unstoppable cult..