Should carrying a firearm become mandatory?

[justinacolmena]

We're literlaly discussing how it would be legal for legislators to overrule the popular vote, we are not a democracy. Never have been

A Democrat telling us guns are banned because the U.S. is not a Democracy, and never has been. Nice.

 

[Rigby5]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

 

[Blues Man]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

Of course it did.

The Bill of Rights is about the rights of the people individually and collectively and included those rights that were so important that a specific mention was needed to ensure the government could not violate them.

 

[Juicin]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

Of course it did.

The Bill of Rights is about the rights of the people individually and collectively and included those rights that were so important that a specific mention was needed to ensure the government could not violate them.

The bill of rights only limited the feds pre reconstruction

It did not enshrine any rights, it merely prevented the federal government from fucking with you on those rights.

Not your state or city government. Those protections would need to be in the state constitutions

Do none of you understand the system we have is in many ways not the system teh founding fathers gave us/

 

[Juicin]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

It does post reconstruction, because no level of governmetn can violate your constitutionally provided rights

Pre reconstruction it didn't

 

[Blues Man]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

Of course it did.

The Bill of Rights is about the rights of the people individually and collectively and included those rights that were so important that a specific mention was needed to ensure the government could not violate them.

The bill of rights only limited the feds pre reconstruction

It did not enshrine any rights, it merely prevented the federal government from fucking with you

Not your state or city government. Those protections would need to be in the state constitutions

Do none of you understand the system we have is in many ways not the system teh founding fathers gave us/

You do realize that states are still bound by the Constitution right? State and local laws cannot violate the Constitution.

 

[Juicin]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

Of course it did.

The Bill of Rights is about the rights of the people individually and collectively and included those rights that were so important that a specific mention was needed to ensure the government could not violate them.

The bill of rights only limited the feds pre reconstruction

It did not enshrine any rights, it merely prevented the federal government from fucking with you

Not your state or city government. Those protections would need to be in the state constitutions

Do none of you understand the system we have is in many ways not the system teh founding fathers gave us/

You do realize that states are still bound by the Constitution right? State and local laws cannot violate the Constitution.

not pre civil war they weren't

you could have your own little theocracy, no first amendment protections

could certainly disarm people

This is why Ron Paul is a libertarian. The constitution allows him to have his own little theocracy in east texas as long as the texas constitution doesn't allow it. Many libertarians are not really believers in the NAP, they want pre reconstruction america. To go back to a time where the bill of rights did not apply to state governments

 

[Rigby5]

If you already had covid, then the mask it totally unnecessary. You can not get it again or spread it to others.

Who says that? Certainly not the CDC.

Yes there is evidence. Anyone can get re-infected by any virus and test positive, but so far no one who was already infected has shown any symptoms or been infectious to anyone else.

That's not nearly evidence that it can't happen. In fact, you admit that it can. All you're saying is that it hasn't happened, and I'm not even certain I would agree with that.

Where are you getting your information? Do you have a link to an article from a medical journal or the like?

They have all be labeled "asymptomatic", which means they can't infect anyone.

That's absolutely not true. Again, I would ask where you get information.

I have a friend here in town who had Covid, but she was asymptomatic. She spread the virus to her husband. He wasn't the healthiest guy in the world to begin with, and he passed away in September.

Also, the position of the CDC is that reinfection is possible and, if someone is infected, they can spread it.

I would welcome you providing date to the contrary, though...

The proof is the existence of vaccine. If one was not capable of becoming immune after infection, then vaccines would be a waste of time and money.

Well, you need to get the CDC on the phone and set 'em straight.

Have you never gotten the flu despite having a flu shot? I'm not talking about that slight crappy feeling which you get right after you get the flu shot. I mean the full-blown flu, maybe weeks after getting the vaccine.

I sure the fuck have. That's why I don't get flu shots anymore...

Wrong.
The CDC is not a reliable source of anything.
The said no masks, then said to use masks.
The claimed no immunity, then said vaccines give immunity.
They said even stupider things, like the antibodies only last a month, so then immunity only lasts a month, even though antibodies are NOT at all and never have been when immunity is stored.

Flu shots work absolutely for a life time, but the reason you still get the flu is that it is a different flu, not the one you got vaccinated for.

Anyone can spread covid by physical contact, but anyone who claims it can replicate to any degree in the body of a person who had it before, is just lying.
That has never been true and never will be true.
That is just irresponsible hysteria that people have been constantly lying about with this epidemic.
I am not going to bother finding sources again for such obvious and will established fact.
Anyone who knows anything should already know this, and if they don't, nothing is going to convince them anyway.
Links are pointless when I can find links claiming things obviously contradictory.

All we have to know is that we all agree vaccines for covid-19 are possible, so then immunity has to prevent being infectious.

 

[Canon Shooter]

If you already had covid, then the mask it totally unnecessary. You can not get it again or spread it to others.

Who says that? Certainly not the CDC.

Yes there is evidence. Anyone can get re-infected by any virus and test positive, but so far no one who was already infected has shown any symptoms or been infectious to anyone else.

That's not nearly evidence that it can't happen. In fact, you admit that it can. All you're saying is that it hasn't happened, and I'm not even certain I would agree with that.

Where are you getting your information? Do you have a link to an article from a medical journal or the like?

They have all be labeled "asymptomatic", which means they can't infect anyone.

That's absolutely not true. Again, I would ask where you get information.

I have a friend here in town who had Covid, but she was asymptomatic. She spread the virus to her husband. He wasn't the healthiest guy in the world to begin with, and he passed away in September.

Also, the position of the CDC is that reinfection is possible and, if someone is infected, they can spread it.

I would welcome you providing date to the contrary, though...

The proof is the existence of vaccine. If one was not capable of becoming immune after infection, then vaccines would be a waste of time and money.

Well, you need to get the CDC on the phone and set 'em straight.

Have you never gotten the flu despite having a flu shot? I'm not talking about that slight crappy feeling which you get right after you get the flu shot. I mean the full-blown flu, maybe weeks after getting the vaccine.

I sure the fuck have. That's why I don't get flu shots anymore...

Wrong.
The CDC is not a reliable source of anything.
The said no masks, then said to use masks.
The claimed no immunity, then said vaccines give immunity.
They said even stupider things, like the antibodies only last a month, so then immunity only lasts a month, even though antibodies are NOT at all and never have been when immunity is stored.

Flu shots work absolutely for a life time, but the reason you still get the flu is that it is a different flu, not the one you got vaccinated for.

Anyone can spread covid by physical contact, but anyone who claims it can replicate to any degree in the body of a person who had it before, is just lying.
That has never been true and never will be true.
That is just irresponsible hysteria that people have been constantly lying about with this epidemic.
I am not going to bother finding sources again for such obvious and will established fact.
Anyone who knows anything should already know this, and if they don't, nothing is going to convince them anyway.
Links are pointless when I can find links claiming things obviously contradictory.

All we have to know is that we all agree vaccines for covid-19 are possible, so then immunity has to prevent being infectious.

Wow, that's a whole shitload of words to say that you're not able to cite a reliable source...

 

[progressive hunter]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

Of course it did.

The Bill of Rights is about the rights of the people individually and collectively and included those rights that were so important that a specific mention was needed to ensure the government could not violate them.

The bill of rights only limited the feds pre reconstruction

It did not enshrine any rights, it merely prevented the federal government from fucking with you on those rights.

Not your state or city government. Those protections would need to be in the state constitutions

Do none of you understand the system we have is in many ways not the system teh founding fathers gave us/

do you not understand that federal law supersedes state law???

 

[progressive hunter]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

It does post reconstruction, because no level of governmetn can violate your constitutionally provided rights

Pre reconstruction it didn't

the 2nd isnt a constitutional right its a human right that NO government can violate,,,

 

[Juicin]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

Of course it did.

The Bill of Rights is about the rights of the people individually and collectively and included those rights that were so important that a specific mention was needed to ensure the government could not violate them.

The bill of rights only limited the feds pre reconstruction

It did not enshrine any rights, it merely prevented the federal government from fucking with you on those rights.

Not your state or city government. Those protections would need to be in the state constitutions

Do none of you understand the system we have is in many ways not the system teh founding fathers gave us/

do you not understand that federal law supersedes state law???

AGAIN THAT WAS NOT TRUE UNTIL THE CIVIL WAR

IT WAS THE 14TH AMENDMENT THAT MAKES THAT TRUE

THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T FUCK WITH THE KID IN AP HISTORY. HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THIS?

lol

Ron Paul's biggest dream is to basically repeal the 14th amendment so we can back to the era of "states rights"

Again the system we have is often not what the founding fathers envisioned.

 

[Rigby5]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

Of course it did.

The Bill of Rights is about the rights of the people individually and collectively and included those rights that were so important that a specific mention was needed to ensure the government could not violate them.

The bill of rights only limited the feds pre reconstruction

It did not enshrine any rights, it merely prevented the federal government from fucking with you

Not your state or city government. Those protections would need to be in the state constitutions

Do none of you understand the system we have is in many ways not the system teh founding fathers gave us/

You do realize that states are still bound by the Constitution right? State and local laws cannot violate the Constitution.

not pre civil war they weren't

you could have your own little theocracy, no first amendment protections

could certainly disarm people

This is why Ron Paul is a libertarian. The constitution allows him to have his own little theocracy in east texas as long as the texas constitution doesn't allow it. Many libertarians are not really believers in the NAP, they want pre reconstruction america. To go back to a time where the bill of rights did not apply to state governments

That is true states were supreme except where the constitution gave federal jurisdiction.
But there was not a single state with gun laws until the slaves were freed and the KKK started making laws to keep Blacks disarmed.
The idea states did or could disarm people is wrong.
It is just then the individual state constitutions you have to look at.

 

[Rigby5]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

Of course it did.

The Bill of Rights is about the rights of the people individually and collectively and included those rights that were so important that a specific mention was needed to ensure the government could not violate them.

The bill of rights only limited the feds pre reconstruction

It did not enshrine any rights, it merely prevented the federal government from fucking with you on those rights.

Not your state or city government. Those protections would need to be in the state constitutions

Do none of you understand the system we have is in many ways not the system teh founding fathers gave us/

do you not understand that federal law supersedes state law???

AGAIN THAT WAS NOT TRUE UNTIL THE CIVIL WAR

IT WAS THE 14TH AMENDMENT THAT MAKES THAT TRUE

THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T FUCK WITH THE KID IN AP HISTORY. HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THIS?

lol

Ron Paul's biggest dream is to basically repeal the 14th ammendment so we can back to the era of "states rights"

No, it was also state constitutions that enshrined individual rights.

 

[Juicin]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

It does post reconstruction, because no level of governmetn can violate your constitutionally provided rights

Pre reconstruction it didn't

the 2nd isnt a constitutional right its a human right that NO government can violate,,,

Every state could violate it pre 14th amendment, only binding on the feds

 

[Juicin]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

Of course it did.

The Bill of Rights is about the rights of the people individually and collectively and included those rights that were so important that a specific mention was needed to ensure the government could not violate them.

The bill of rights only limited the feds pre reconstruction

It did not enshrine any rights, it merely prevented the federal government from fucking with you on those rights.

Not your state or city government. Those protections would need to be in the state constitutions

Do none of you understand the system we have is in many ways not the system teh founding fathers gave us/

do you not understand that federal law supersedes state law???

AGAIN THAT WAS NOT TRUE UNTIL THE CIVIL WAR

IT WAS THE 14TH AMENDMENT THAT MAKES THAT TRUE

THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T FUCK WITH THE KID IN AP HISTORY. HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THIS?

lol

Ron Paul's biggest dream is to basically repeal the 14th ammendment so we can back to the era of "states rights"

No, it was also state constitutions that enshrined individual rights.

What? did you quote the wrong post?

i've already said 10 times states were bound by their own constitutions

 

[progressive hunter]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

Of course it did.

The Bill of Rights is about the rights of the people individually and collectively and included those rights that were so important that a specific mention was needed to ensure the government could not violate them.

The bill of rights only limited the feds pre reconstruction

It did not enshrine any rights, it merely prevented the federal government from fucking with you on those rights.

Not your state or city government. Those protections would need to be in the state constitutions

Do none of you understand the system we have is in many ways not the system teh founding fathers gave us/

do you not understand that federal law supersedes state law???

AGAIN THAT WAS NOT TRUE UNTIL THE CIVIL WAR

IT WAS THE 14TH AMENDMENT THAT MAKES THAT TRUE

THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T FUCK WITH THE KID IN AP HISTORY. HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THIS?

lol

Ron Paul's biggest dream is to basically repeal the 14th amendment so we can back to the era of "states rights"

Again the system we have is often not what the founding fathers envisioned.

states rights are not the issue,,

 

[Juicin]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

Of course it did.

The Bill of Rights is about the rights of the people individually and collectively and included those rights that were so important that a specific mention was needed to ensure the government could not violate them.

The bill of rights only limited the feds pre reconstruction

It did not enshrine any rights, it merely prevented the federal government from fucking with you on those rights.

Not your state or city government. Those protections would need to be in the state constitutions

Do none of you understand the system we have is in many ways not the system teh founding fathers gave us/

do you not understand that federal law supersedes state law???

AGAIN THAT WAS NOT TRUE UNTIL THE CIVIL WAR

IT WAS THE 14TH AMENDMENT THAT MAKES THAT TRUE

THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T FUCK WITH THE KID IN AP HISTORY. HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THIS?

lol

Ron Paul's biggest dream is to basically repeal the 14th amendment so we can back to the era of "states rights"

Again the system we have is often not what the founding fathers envisioned.

states rights are not the issue,,

Yes they are, it's an issue on how we interpret federal constitutional protections

The founding fathers could not give you rights via the bill of rights under anything but federal law. Which at that time was basically meaningless because the federal government wasn't very big.

States had all the power to set rules on each of those issues laid out in teh bill of rights.

Which means belief that the second ammendment is some mandate for universal gun rights is fucking absurd. The federalists won.

 

[progressive hunter]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

Of course it did.

The Bill of Rights is about the rights of the people individually and collectively and included those rights that were so important that a specific mention was needed to ensure the government could not violate them.

The bill of rights only limited the feds pre reconstruction

It did not enshrine any rights, it merely prevented the federal government from fucking with you on those rights.

Not your state or city government. Those protections would need to be in the state constitutions

Do none of you understand the system we have is in many ways not the system teh founding fathers gave us/

do you not understand that federal law supersedes state law???

AGAIN THAT WAS NOT TRUE UNTIL THE CIVIL WAR

IT WAS THE 14TH AMENDMENT THAT MAKES THAT TRUE

THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T FUCK WITH THE KID IN AP HISTORY. HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THIS?

lol

Ron Paul's biggest dream is to basically repeal the 14th amendment so we can back to the era of "states rights"

Again the system we have is often not what the founding fathers envisioned.

states rights are not the issue,,

Yes they are, it's an issue on how we interpret federal constitutional protections

The founding fathers could not give you rights via the bill of rights under anything but federal law. Which at that time was basically meaningless because the federal government wasn't very big.

you dont interpret simple english,,, unless of course youre a dishonest person,,

 

[Juicin]

No it doesn't.

I mean it provides far more protection than the masks we are mandated to wear for protection.

Having a firearm increases your chance of dying from gunfire.

Being a CRIMINAL in possession of a firearm does.

You assholes always seem to leave off the important part.

as soon as you include accidental deaths and suicides you're clearly less safe with a gun than without

Our violence rate is way too low to justify owning a gun in most fo the country.

If you live in a poor part of Chicago or some other major urban center that is basically a warzone.....Then maybe it becomes rational

The great thing about rights are you don't need to justify exercising them.

It in no way follows that I think they should be taken away. Gun owners take all the risk of keeping elites scared of us?

But he seems to be confused about the statistical realities of safety and gun ownership. They will not make you safer on average.

Yes surprise your suburban little girl who you treat like a princess is not some disciplined little child soldier who won't accidentally shoot herself or some one else. Your family is probably not safer for having a gun in the house. You're in a catch 22 where you need easy access but that same access increases the threat level. *shrug*

Can't even trust the average suburban american kid at a gun range much less with 24/7 access. Going to be very few scenarios where a gun can keep you safe. Infinite where gun ownership can end up hurting you.

if anything guns are neutral when it comes to safety.

People who own guns legally are not the problem. If other activities had an accidental death rate as low as legal gun ownership they'd be praised as being extremely safe.

The problem with guns is and always has been the people who possess carry and use guns illegally.

You're very unlikely to ever need it

Which makes the claims they're neutral sort of insane

Actually, it is absolutely inevitable that people will need guns.
We formed this country due to corruption by government that required a rebellion.
That ALWAYS is the normal tendency, for all governments to become more corrupt, and for rebellion to restore rights for a time.
So whether or not guns become necessary in our life times, to us, is not relevant.
They absolutely will be necessary to some people at some time.
So it has to remain illegal for government to at all interfere in this essential weapons ownership by the general population.

Yea uh huh and i gain all the rewards with almost none of the risks with you having the gun

The only way to ensure the majority has guns to prevent tyranny, is for the right for all individuals to have guns to be kept sacrosanct.
If one generation becomes lazy and complacent, then they doom all future generations to authoritarian dictatorship at some point.

Yea and they viewed that as the states prerogative, not random plebs

Again the founding fathers hated people like you. They did not trust you to make choices about what is and is not tyrannical, or do much of anything else really.

We aren't a democracy we're a republic, there wasn't even any illusion you were allowed to vote much less use arms to affect politics.

so not only do you read minds, but read the minds of dead people,,

YOURE FUCKING AMAZING!!!

Yea it's almost like if you have a high IQ they go into great detail about American history in our education....

It's not very long relative to most nations. You can spend some time on what the founding fathers thought and the implications of the system they made. Not very difficult to connect these dots.

AP history class kids hear detailed history, not some tainted form of it, which is why teh right hates them so much. You're exhibiting the common strain of "ignorance is bliss" on our history. No it's not. Accept reality like a man. Yea our slave holding founding fatehrs who didn't like dmeocracy didn't enshrine your right to own a gun in the constitution. Not on purpose anyway

The Constitution has NO individual rights in it.
That was not its intent.
The Bill of Rights is ONLY to restrict the federal government, nothing more.
And the majority of the founders did not hold slaves or necessarily support slavery,
They did not like the original Athenian democracy, where everyone voted on each measure personally, and it had to be unanimous.
The had nothing against a representative democracy.

Of course it did.

The Bill of Rights is about the rights of the people individually and collectively and included those rights that were so important that a specific mention was needed to ensure the government could not violate them.

The bill of rights only limited the feds pre reconstruction

It did not enshrine any rights, it merely prevented the federal government from fucking with you on those rights.

Not your state or city government. Those protections would need to be in the state constitutions

Do none of you understand the system we have is in many ways not the system teh founding fathers gave us/

do you not understand that federal law supersedes state law???

AGAIN THAT WAS NOT TRUE UNTIL THE CIVIL WAR

IT WAS THE 14TH AMENDMENT THAT MAKES THAT TRUE

THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T FUCK WITH THE KID IN AP HISTORY. HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THIS?

lol

Ron Paul's biggest dream is to basically repeal the 14th amendment so we can back to the era of "states rights"

Again the system we have is often not what the founding fathers envisioned.

states rights are not the issue,,

Yes they are, it's an issue on how we interpret federal constitutional protections

The founding fathers could not give you rights via the bill of rights under anything but federal law. Which at that time was basically meaningless because the federal government wasn't very big.

you dont interpret simple english,,, unless of course youre a dishonest person,,

It's law dude

The phrase "simple english" does not apply

This is why you're not a lawyer, i'm not a lawyer by choice