CDZ Should Americans be allowed to own military sniper rifles and military door buster guns?

[Uncensored2008]

No. The unorganized militia has already proved to be worthless to the security of our free States.

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

Kyle Rittenhouse proves otherwise.

 

[Uncensored2008]

'Original Intent' re the 2nd covered black powder weapons. My state still doesn't restrict owning or carrying those. If the fetisihists want to tote around their black powder rifles, fine, nobody cares. The fact is the states determined who could carry, and did so right up to today, and their 'interpretations' are just rubbish re carrying the kind of weapons available today, and the Founders would have restricted modern weapons if they were around today as well.

"Original Intent" re the 1st covered standing on a soap box. My state prohibits standing on a soap box, but there is nothing in the 1st about cellphones or the internet, so government can regulate what you say.

Logic of the left is constrained within fallacy.

 

[Gary Lee]

If some people believe that Americans shouldn't be allowed to own "military style" rifles....what about actual military sniper rifles? How about military guns used to blow doors off their hinges? These are weapons used in actual war by the military.....should they be banned since they are actual military weapons vs. "military style," weapons?

And do you understand that under the Miller ruling....from the Supreme Court....actual military weapons are protected under the 2nd Amendment?

When the gun grabbing left gets bold enough to attempt to outlaw firearms, especially under a Biden administration, that'll be the day they could very likely foster the SHTF scenario which would be a disaster for our country which was basically egged on by the liberal media which could be viewed as a deliberate attempt to divide & instigate. Americans will not give up their guns. We see the eventual results of what happens to an unarmed populace. They are totally @ the mercy of their respective governments. Just to set the record straight since the grabbers are using the Australian attempt to confiscate their citizens guns as their main talking point in support of confiscation in America. Go here: https://thefederalistpapers.org/us/australia-admits-big-gun-control-failure-will-change-direction

 

[Gary Lee]

'Original Intent' re the 2nd covered black powder weapons. My state still doesn't restrict owning or carrying those. If the fetisihists want to tote around their black powder rifles, fine, nobody cares. The fact is the states determined who could carry, and did so right up to today, and their 'interpretations' are just rubbish re carrying the kind of weapons available today, and the Founders would have restricted modern weapons if they were around today as well.

"Original Intent" re the 1st covered standing on a soap box. My state prohibits standing on a soap box, but there is nothing in the 1st about cellphones or the internet, so government can regulate what you say.

Logic of the left is constrained within fallacy.

UR totally clueless libber.

 

[Uncensored2008]

'Original Intent' re the 2nd covered black powder weapons. My state still doesn't restrict owning or carrying those. If the fetisihists want to tote around their black powder rifles, fine, nobody cares. The fact is the states determined who could carry, and did so right up to today, and their 'interpretations' are just rubbish re carrying the kind of weapons available today, and the Founders would have restricted modern weapons if they were around today as well.

"Original Intent" re the 1st covered standing on a soap box. My state prohibits standing on a soap box, but there is nothing in the 1st about cellphones or the internet, so government can regulate what you say.

Logic of the left is constrained within fallacy.

UR totally clueless libber.

 

[justinacolmena]

Yes. If any civil law enforcement or security agency can have them then they are for any law abiding citizen to purchase and own.

Thank you, and let's not have military officers retaining psychologists and psychiatrists to diagnose us with mental illnesses at court-martial in order to revoke our gun rights. They have too many mental reservations and purposes of evasion with their dumbass gun control bullshit.

 

[2aguy]

If some people believe that Americans shouldn't be allowed to own "military style" rifles....what about actual military sniper rifles? How about military guns used to blow doors off their hinges? These are weapons used in actual war by the military.....should they be banned since they are actual military weapons vs. "military style," weapons?

And do you understand that under the Miller ruling....from the Supreme Court....actual military weapons are protected under the 2nd Amendment?

Not with your death rates from firearms - You are a disgrace to the international community and to humanity as a whole!

Gun-related deaths per 100,000 population.

USA 12.21
UK 0.23

France 2.83
Canada 2.00
Sweden 1.6
Italy 1.31
Germany 1.17
Australia 0.9
Japan 0.6
Spain 0.31

With a population of 333546000 in the USA. That works out at 40,000 gun deaths per annum.

You are a hack....the international community murdered 12 million innocent men, women and children in Europe, another 25 million in Russia and 70 million in China....so you morons, who had 2 World Wars that we had to save you from, have nothing to teach us...

So...dipshit.....we had 10,265 gun murders in 2019.....70-80% of the victims are criminals murdered by other criminals...but even if you take all of those and use that total over the last 81 years......1939-2020.... is 831,465 people murdered in criminal actions...again, with 79-80% of the murdered actual criminals, and of the rest, the majority are friends and family of those criminals...

You, asshats, murdered 12 million innocent men, women and children just between 1939 and 1945. They are not war dead...they are people dragged from their homes and murdered......you doofus.....

So please, spare us your holier than thou bullshit......

In the United States, Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times a year to save lives from rape, robbery and murder....and have kept our governments from murdering our innocent people the way your governments allowed the socialists to murder yours.......

1.1 million times a year Americans use their legal guns to save lives...according to our Centers for Disease Control.........you have no argument, you dumb twit..

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

I'm not interested in the ridiculous shite you wright - you're a nutter!

Just tell me how many Americans lost their lives by accident to firearms?

I will tell you 458 in 2018. that is totally unnecessary deaths of many that will never have kids, grandkids, etc.
Over generations thousands that will never live that would have if not for your obsession with lethal weapons.

As for your lies forget about when the Clintons were in power and the rate dropped.

Since 2014, gun-related assault deaths have increased 27%, . Suicide deaths involving guns increased 2.4%, marking the 12th consecutive yearly increase.

 

[2aguy]

I'm not interested in the ridiculous shite you wright - you're a nutter!

Just tell me how many Americans lost their lives by accident to firearms?

I will tell you 458 in 2018. that is totally unnecessary deaths of many that will never have kids, grandkids, etc.
Over generations thousands that will never live that would have if not for your obsession with lethal weapons.

As for your lies forget about when the Clintons were in power and the rate dropped.

Since 2014, gun-related assault deaths have increased 27%, . Suicide deaths involving guns increased 2.4%, marking the 12th consecutive yearly increase.

Here........again, try to respond........841,000 dead by guns in criminal violence, with 70-80% or more of the victims actually criminals involved in crime, and the rest, the majority are friends and family of the criminals...

12 million innocent men, women and children murdered by Europeans....

Can you tell which number is bigger?

Gun suicides don't count , since they can just substitute another method, you moron....

Fatal Injury and Violence Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2018.......458

2017 accidental gun death.....486

Guns....486

Cars....38,659

Poison...64,795
Fall (Gravity) ...36,338
Suffocation...6,946
Fire....2,902
Struck, by or against...819
Bicycle...345

 

[2aguy]

I'm not interested in the ridiculous shite you wright - you're a nutter!

Just tell me how many Americans lost their lives by accident to firearms?

I will tell you 458 in 2018. that is totally unnecessary deaths of many that will never have kids, grandkids, etc.
Over generations thousands that will never live that would have if not for your obsession with lethal weapons.

As for your lies forget about when the Clintons were in power and the rate dropped.

Since 2014, gun-related assault deaths have increased 27%, . Suicide deaths involving guns increased 2.4%, marking the 12th consecutive yearly increase.

t......obama was President in 2014 and attacked the police creating the Ferguson effect..........so it wasn't gun ownership that caused the increase...

You don't know what you are talking about...

Hard Data, Hollow Protests

The reason for the current increase is what I have called the Ferguson Effect.

Cops are backing off of proactive policing in high-crime minority neighborhoods, and criminals are becoming emboldened.

Having been told incessantly by politicians, the media, and Black Lives Matter activists that they are bigoted for getting out of their cars and questioning someone loitering on a known drug corner at 2 AM, many officers are instead just driving by. Such stops are discretionary; cops don’t have to make them. And when political elites demonize the police for just such proactive policing, we shouldn’t be surprised when cops get the message and do less of it.

Seventy-two percent of the nation’s officers say that they and their colleagues are now less willing to stop and question suspicious persons, according to a Pew Research poll released in January. The reason is the persistent anti-cop climate.

Four studies came out in 2016 alone rebuttingthe charge that police shootings are racially biased. If there is a bias in police shootings, it works in favor of blacks and against whites. That truth has not stopped the ongoing demonization of the police—including, now, by many of the country’s ignorant professional athletes. The toll will be felt, as always, in the inner city, by the thousands of law-abiding people there who desperately want more police protection.


Crime Rates in Largest U.S. Cities Continue to Drop

Crime in the 30 largest U.S. cities is estimated to have declined in 2018, with decreases in the rates of violent crime, murder, and overall crime, according to a new Brennan Center analysis of the available data.

Murder rates in particular were down by 8 percent from 2017, a significant drop. 2018 marks the second straight year that murder rates have fallen, too, after increases in 2015 and 2016.

Overall, however, U.S. crime rates have dropped dramatically since peaking in 1991.

 

[2aguy]

I'm not interested in the ridiculous shite you wright - you're a nutter!

Just tell me how many Americans lost their lives by accident to firearms?

I will tell you 458 in 2018. that is totally unnecessary deaths of many that will never have kids, grandkids, etc.
Over generations thousands that will never live that would have if not for your obsession with lethal weapons.

As for your lies forget about when the Clintons were in power and the rate dropped.

Since 2014, gun-related assault deaths have increased 27%, . Suicide deaths involving guns increased 2.4%, marking the 12th consecutive yearly increase.

Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times to save lives...from rape, robbery and murder....

1.1 million vs. 458.....and the majority of those accidents are again caused by criminals who have guns, illegally, in their homes, and don't take care of them...

 

[Billy_Bob]

If some people believe that Americans shouldn't be allowed to own "military style" rifles....what about actual military sniper rifles? How about military guns used to blow doors off their hinges? These are weapons used in actual war by the military.....should they be banned since they are actual military weapons vs. "military style," weapons?

And do you understand that under the Miller ruling....from the Supreme Court....actual military weapons are protected under the 2nd Amendment?

The whole point of keeping and bearing arms was to make the populace to be greater than any standing army so that we could defend our GOD GIVEN RIGHTS.. This means we need to have the same level of armaments that any military uses....

 

[2aguy]

I'm not interested in the ridiculous shite you wright - you're a nutter!

Just tell me how many Americans lost their lives by accident to firearms?

I will tell you 458 in 2018. that is totally unnecessary deaths of many that will never have kids, grandkids, etc.
Over generations thousands that will never live that would have if not for your obsession with lethal weapons.

As for your lies forget about when the Clintons were in power and the rate dropped.

Since 2014, gun-related assault deaths have increased 27%, . Suicide deaths involving guns increased 2.4%, marking the 12th consecutive yearly increase.

You don't understand the issues, you don't know what you are talking about.....the democrat party's war on police caused the increase.....not private ownership of guns......

So what happened in 2015 and 2016 to cause the violent crime rate, including the homicide rate, to rise after decades of decline? I can’t think of any explanation other than the Black Lives Matter movement and the relentless attacks on law enforcement that it engendered, which were supported by the Obama administration.

But what happened when Donald Trump took over in the White House? The homicide and violent crime rates began to fall again. If the New York Times’s projection is correct, the second year of the Trump administration saw a steeper decline in the homicide rate.
--------------------

On December 6, the New York Times headlined: “U.S. Murder Rate for 2018 Is on Track for a Big Drop.” The story was based on homicide statistics from 66 large cities. (The official FBI numbers for 2018 won’t come out until September 2019.)

The murder rate in the United States in 2018 is on track for the largest one-year drop in five years.
***
Murder rose 23 percent nationally between 2014 and 2016 before leveling off in 2017.
The Times can’t think what might have caused the homicide rate to rise rather dramatically during the last years of the Obama administration. It does provide this useful chart, with the homicide rate for 2018 based on 66-city data:

President Trump Saves Thousands of Lives

On December 6, the New York Times headlined: 'U.S. Murder Rate for 2018 Is on Track for a Big Drop.' The story was based on homicide statistics from 66 large cities. (The official FBI numbers for 2018 won't come out until September 2019.) The murder rate in the United States in 2018 is on track...

www.powerlineblog.com

 

[Pete7469]

If some people believe that Americans shouldn't be allowed to own "military style" rifles....what about actual military sniper rifles? How about military guns used to blow doors off their hinges? These are weapons used in actual war by the military.....should they be banned since they are actual military weapons vs. "military style," weapons?

And do you understand that under the Miller ruling....from the Supreme Court....actual military weapons are protected under the 2nd Amendment?

I would go so far as to say we can have AT4 Anti Armor Weapons. RPG's Carl Gustav's, Bazooka's... Anything a man can carry should be available to free men.

With all of our might after 20 years we have not yet been able to subjugate the people of Afghanistan to do anything they don't want to do, because they can get any weapon they can carry.

.

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

You are talking crap!
You seriously think that if everybody in Europe was armed it would have prevented 2 World Wars?
It wouldn't have made any difference.

The Holocaust. Do you think the Jews would have shot policemen coming to arrest them?
They had no idea where they were going to end up and would never have broken what was German Law.

Let's go on to suicides.
Evidence in the UK has proven that with each restriction on firearms the suicide rates have fallen.
UK 6000 death rate from suicide shows guns are responsible for only 100 that's 1.66%
US 39000 death rate suicide 26000 that is 61% of all firearm deaths out of a total of 48000+ Suicides.

Thus Suicides UK 6000 - guns responsible for 100 =1.66%
" US 48000 " " " 26000 = 55%

Compare the facts!
In the UK where guns are very difficult to come by, only 1.66% of suicides are caused by guns.
In the US a staggering 55% are caused because guns make it very easy.

Finally, your fantasy that you will defeat any US government that intends to suppress the American people with your poxy untrained armed militias. It's really laughable that grown men like you can be so friggin dumb.
The US military will route you in hours in one almighty Waco and all they will do is send in the drones!

 

[AZrailwhale]

If some people believe that Americans shouldn't be allowed to own "military style" rifles....what about actual military sniper rifles? How about military guns used to blow doors off their hinges? These are weapons used in actual war by the military.....should they be banned since they are actual military weapons vs. "military style," weapons?

And do you understand that under the Miller ruling....from the Supreme Court....actual military weapons are protected under the 2nd Amendment?

Of course they should

They are very effective at massacring small children, shooting up shopping malls and churches as well as killing small rodents

And yet, in a country of over 320 million people.....only 11 people last year used their guns illegally in mass public shootings. At the same time, each year, on average, Americans use their legal guns 1.1 million times to stop rape, robbery and murder.....saving lives....

You got anything else?

If someone wants to buy a high tech sniper rifle to shoot little children, he has a Constitutional right to do so

God Bless our founding fathers!

Intent is not illegal, only actions are. Punishment for illegal actions should be so certain and horrible that almost everyone will refrain from violating the law. You can't deter someone who is intent on violating the law, because they are certain they will never get caught; you can only punish them.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Suppose you want to slaughter a bunch of six year olds. You can charge in with your AR15 and 50 round magazines and kill dozens in one attack. But you will probably be killed.

Now, if you have a military grade sniper rifle, you can sit back concealed over a half a mile away and shoot the six year olds as they step off the bus. At that distance, you can easily get away and come back as many times as you wish.

That is what makes this country great
You have equal access to either.

The problem with your statement is that it takes a great amount of skill to hit a person sized target at 880 yards which is a half mile. A civilian hunting rifle can do anything a military sniper rifle can do. In the end, like shooters have said for decades. it's not the weapon doing the killing, it's the shooter. As my drill sergeant said in 1970, "there are no dangerous weapons', only dangerous people".

 

[AZrailwhale]

Exactly what I have been saying

If you want to buy the best available assault rifle or sniper rifle to slaughter young children, it is your own business

No RW......It is your business UNTIL you commit a crime. Apparently you lust for slaughtered children that is all you are posting on this subject.

Exactly
There is no crime in buying the weapon of your choice before you go out to slaughter children or church goers

God Bless our second amendment rights

There is no crime in recording your voice shouting "FIRE" until you play it in a crowded theater. God Bless our first amendment rights.

 

[AZrailwhale]

I can own a bazooka as long as I register it and pay the taxes on it. Is it wise for me to own a bazooka? That's a different question. IMO it is the same as being able to buy a car that can go over 200 MPH. Do you "need" a car that goes that fast? No. Can you legally own a car that goes that fast? Yes.

A state can decide which cars are street legal. Many high performance cars are not

Same goes for guns

About the only cars that aren't street legal are dedicated racing or off road cars and they all can be made street legal with minor modifications like headlights. turn signals and fenders. Some cars are banned for street use in the USA because they haven't been tested for emissions. but that has nothing to do with their performance levels.

 

[AZrailwhale]

If some people believe that Americans shouldn't be allowed to own "military style" rifles....what about actual military sniper rifles? How about military guns used to blow doors off their hinges? These are weapons used in actual war by the military.....should they be banned since they are actual military weapons vs. "military style," weapons?

And do you understand that under the Miller ruling....from the Supreme Court....actual military weapons are protected under the 2nd Amendment?

When I was on a team we used a bolt action M21 with a floating barrel as a sniper rifle....and a shotgun for door opening.
Many hunting rifles are better than the M21.
We used #9 birdshot on door hinges for opening.

Civilian loads are much more lethal.

Full-auto is what makes it military grade.
They don't sell those in the gun stores.

The M 21 is a militarized version of the Springfield Armory M1A which is a civilianized version of the military M 14 rifle. Round and round we go.