Shohei Ohtani is the Best BB Player Ever

[Cougarbear]

yea in the live ball era......there is a big difference in the conditions of play in the dead ball and live ball eras...with the ball especially and how long they used the same ball in play.......

Yet, again, all the .400 hitters and Ruth, Williams and others hitting massive homeruns and have high numbers too.

 

[kyzina]

To be a "best player ever", one woukd need a lifetime batting average of A LOT higher than .282.

Totally agree. I just looked up Shohei Ohtani's career OBP (on base percentage). It's .374. That ranks around 250th all-time.

The great Ted Williams had an OBP of .482. That's pushing .500. Just think about that. Every time Williams came to the plate, he had an almost half and half chance of reaching base. Ruth, by the way, ranks second behind Williams all-time. Shohei is nowhere near the greatness of Ruth.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Yet, again, all the .400 hitters and Ruth, Williams and others hitting massive homeruns and have high numbers too.

yes in the live ball era....

 

[Cougarbear]

Totally agree. I just looked up Shohei Ohtani's career OBP (on base percentage). It's .374. That ranks around 250th all-time.

The great Ted Williams had an OBP of .482. That's pushing .500. Just think about that. Every time Williams came to the plate, he had an almost half and half chance of reaching base. Ruth, by the way, ranks second behind Williams all-time. Shohei is nowhere near the greatness of Ruth.

These are really great points. It takes more than just hitting well and pitching well from one player to be the greatest. Like I said, let's have this conversation when he's played as long as the Babe or Williams or Mays has.

 

[protectionist]

lots of great ball players are below .300....batting avg aint the whole story anyway,,,,

It's more than enough of the story to deduce that this guy might hit lots of home runs, but he's not even a top rate hitter, let alone "best player ever".

 

[Harry Dresden]

It's more than enough of the story to deduce that this guy might hit lots of home runs, but he's not even a top rate hitter, let alone "best player ever".

not yet he isnt.....why dont you wait 10 years and see were he is at...the last 3 years he has had the top SLG OPS AND OPS+...and he has scored over 130 runs 2 years in a row...not easy to do these days...

 

[Blaster]

The Blue Jays kicked the Dodgers ass in the first game while Toronto fans ridiculed Ohtani.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The Blue Jays kicked the Dodgers ass in the first game while Toronto fans ridiculed Ohtani.

yea the under paid guys beat the over paid guys.....how is that possible?...

 

[protectionist]

not yet he isnt.....why dont you wait 10 years and see were he is at...the last 3 years he has had the top SLG OPS AND OPS+...and he has scored over 130 runs 2 years in a row...not easy to do these days...

Still he has a career batting average of .282 up to now (8 seasons), with his highest single season avg being just .310.

In his first 8 seasons, Stan Musial averaged .345, his top avg during those seasons being .376.
And Musial's lowest during those 8 yrs, was higher than Ohtani's highest.

Getting the picture ?

 

[Harry Dresden]

Still he has a career batting average of .282 up to now (8 seasons), with his highest single season avg being just .310.

In his first 8 seasons, Stan Musial averaged .345, his top avg during those seasons being .376.
And Musial's lowest during those 8 yrs, was higher than Ohtani's highest.

Getting the picture ?

the 1940's because of the war was a pretty weak decade for baseball....and i bet stan playing today would not have his numbers like he did then....you getting the picture?....

 

[protectionist]

the 1940's because of the war was a pretty weak decade for baseball....and i bet stan playing today would not have his numbers like he did then....you getting the picture?....

I get the picture that you are running away from the truth. So you're going to try to use the 1940s decade - well, if it was so weak, then why didn't other 1940s players have a .345 batting average in THEIR first 8 years ? Why didn't THEY hit .376 ?

Secondly, here's the first 8 years batting average of another REAL great player (Tony Gwynn- 1980s), averaged out > .329. Top season > .370.
Got an excuse for the 1980's too ?

Something wrong with the 80s ? OK how about the 60's & 70s ? In his first 8 years, Rod Carew averaged .326. Top year .366.
Getting the picture ?

Not yet ? How about Tod Helton whose first 8 years were 1998-2005 ? Averaged .337 his first 8 years. Top year hit .372.

Compared to these guys, Ohtani is a minor leaguer.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I get the picture that you are running away from the truth. So you're going to try to use the 1940s decade - well, if it was so weak, then why didn't other 1940s players have a .345 batting average in THEIR first 8 years ? Why didn't THEY hit .376 ?

Secondly, here's the first 8 years batting average of another REAL great player (Tony Gwynn- 1980s), averaged out > .329. Top season > .370.
Got an excuse for the 1980's too ?

Something wrong with the 80s ? OK how about the 60's & 70s ? In his first 8 years, Rod Carew averaged .326. Top year .366.
Getting the picture ?

Not yet ? How about Tod Helton whose first 8 years were 1998-2005 ? Averaged .337 his first 8 years. Top year hit .372.

Compared to these guys, Ohtani is a minor leaguer.

you just dont like ohtani....are you going to say mike trout is a minor leaguer too?...how about albert pujols?....another minor leager?...

 

[Failzero]

Best ever would be Phil Niekro

 

[Blaster]

Hank Aaron, Ted Williams say hold my beer.

 

[protectionist]

you just dont like ohtani....are you going to say mike trout is a minor leaguer too?...how about albert pujols?....another minor leager?...

I don't disike Ohtani. I dont dislike his .282 career batting average either. I jus say that it does not put him in the caliber of really great hitters like Ted Williams (.344), Stan Musial (.331), Babe Ruth (.342), Lou Gehrig (.340), Ty Cobb (.366), and the other 3 guys I mentioned - Carew, Gwynn, Helton.

As a hitter, for his first 8 yrs, Trout was an above average major leaguer, well above Ohtani (.307 first 8 years ; top -.327), but much below the level of the guys I cited here.

As a hitter, for his first 8 yrs, Pujols was in the class with the great hitters of all time (I cited above) - .335 first 8 years ; top -.359)

Ohtani is not in the class of any of these guys.

BTW Ohtani's highest single season BA (.310) is 96 points lower than Ted Williams' top (.406). There is no comparison.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I don't disike Ohtani. I dont dislike his .282 career batting average either. I jus say that it does not put him in the caliber of really great hitters like Ted Williams (.344), Stan Musial (.331), Babe Ruth (.342), Lou Gehrig (.340), Ty Cobb (.366), and the other 3 guys I mentioned - Carew, Gwynn, Helton.

As a hitter, for his first 8 yrs, Trout was an above average major leaguer, well above Ohtani (.307 first 8 years ; top -.327), but much below the level of the guys I cited here.

As a hitter, for his first 8 yrs, Pujols was in the class with the great hitters of all time (I cited above) - .335 first 8 years ; top -.359)

Ohtani is not in the class of any of these guys.

BTW Ohtani's highest single season BA (.310) is 96 points lower than Ted Williams' top (.406). There is no comparison.

you are going by their first 8 years?....well you will have to give ohtani 3-4 more years then....his first 3 he wasnt a full time player...

 

[Failzero]

you are going by their first 8 years?....well you will have to give ohtani 3-4 more years then....his first 3 he wasnt a full time player...

Phil Niekro won a MLB game when he was pushin 50 ( And he did not throw one Knuckleball in that outing )

 

[Harry Dresden]

Phil Niekro won a MLB game when he was pushin 50 ( And he did not throw one Knuckleball in that outing )

ok?......nolan ryan was 44 when he pitched his 7th no hitter....and he may have had a bad arm when doing it....

 

[Failzero]

ok?......nolan ryan was 44 when he pitched his 7th no hitter....and he may have had a bad arm when doing it....

So there are 4-8 Players who are next level long term to Ohtani so far in his run

 

[Harry Dresden]

So there are 4-8 Players who are next level long term to Ohtani so far in his run

ok.....who are they?....