Sexism in a subtle way

[jreeves]

This has nothing to do with gender, whether Todd Palin was the nominee or Sarah Palin was the nominee," Gutman said. "If my daughter had just come home at 17 years old and said, 'Mom, Dad, I'm pregnant, we have a family problem,' I wouldn't say, 'You know what we're going to do? We're going to take this private family problem...and you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go on the international stage and broadcast this to the world.'"

Gutman continued, "this wasn't a working mother issue, this was a parent issue…The proper attack is not that a woman shouldn't run for vice president with five kids, it's that a parent, when they have a family in need, a Down's baby who needs them -- mother or father."

Political Punch

Obama....
Obviously, she's — a fine — mother and — up-and-coming public servant.
Ben Smith's Blog: Obama on Palin: "A fine mother and an up-and-coming public servant" - Politico.com


Instead, night after night, week after week, year after year, he returned home to Wilmington on a lonely Amtrak train when his Senate business was done. He raised his boys - first as a single dad, then alongside his wonderful wife Jill, who works as a teacher. He had a beautiful daughter. Now his children are grown and Joe is blessed with 5grandchildren. He instilled in them such a sense of public service that his son, Beau, who is now Delaware's Attorney General, is getting ready to deploy to Iraq. And he still takes that train back to Wilmington every night. Out of the heartbreak of that unspeakable accident, he did more than become a Senator - he raised a family. That is the measure of the man standing next to me. That is the character of Joe Biden.
RealClearPolitics - Articles - Remarks Introducing Joe Biden

Thanks Obama campaign for being such sexists, of course Obama wouldn't come out and question whether or not she could be a mother. But Obama instead leaves it up to surrogates to do the dirty work. Change that we can believe in------

 

[Modbert]

This has nothing to do with gender, whether Todd Palin was the nominee or Sarah Palin was the nominee," Gutman said. "If my daughter had just come home at 17 years old and said, 'Mom, Dad, I'm pregnant, we have a family problem,' I wouldn't say, 'You know what we're going to do? We're going to take this private family problem...and you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go on the international stage and broadcast this to the world.'"

Gutman continued, "this wasn't a working mother issue, this was a parent issue…The proper attack is not that a woman shouldn't run for vice president with five kids, it's that a parent, when they have a family in need, a Down's baby who needs them -- mother or father."

Political Punch

Obama....
Obviously, she's — a fine — mother and — up-and-coming public servant.
Ben Smith's Blog: Obama on Palin: "A fine mother and an up-and-coming public servant" - Politico.com


Instead, night after night, week after week, year after year, he returned home to Wilmington on a lonely Amtrak train when his Senate business was done. He raised his boys - first as a single dad, then alongside his wonderful wife Jill, who works as a teacher. He had a beautiful daughter. Now his children are grown and Joe is blessed with 5grandchildren. He instilled in them such a sense of public service that his son, Beau, who is now Delaware's Attorney General, is getting ready to deploy to Iraq. And he still takes that train back to Wilmington every night. Out of the heartbreak of that unspeakable accident, he did more than become a Senator - he raised a family. That is the measure of the man standing next to me. That is the character of Joe Biden.
RealClearPolitics - Articles - Remarks Introducing Joe Biden

Thanks Obama campaign for being such sexists, of course Obama wouldn't come out and question whether or not she could be a mother. But Obama instead leaves it up to surrogates to do the dirty work. Change that we can believe in------

*Pulls the lever* The Right Wing Spin stops here.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW_p6eBSKKE]YouTube - Obama says families 'off-limits'[/ame]

He spoke out against it. What else do you want the guy to do? Go around shooting people who decide to speak their mind?

Also, do not even compare Joe Biden as a father to Sarah Palin as a mother. Joe Biden lost his first wife and his daughter. Yet he had the courage and stength to not only continue on but raised his two boys as a single father. Not only that but he continued to be in the senate, taking the train as mentioned above because he wanted to make a difference.

Barack Obama hit the nail on the head when it came to Joe Biden.

This is how the Republican cheerleader feels about teen pregancies:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KP7Z0nMuPZ8]YouTube - Obama on The Factor! Will Bill O'Reilly Attack?[/ame]

Doublethink my friends, Sarah Palin isn't a widower and she has a husband to help raise her kids.

Again, if your going to try and spin that the Obama Campaign has "subtle sexism" then at least have some truth to back up. Just not opinion and BS.

 

[jreeves]

*Pulls the lever* The Right Wing Spin stops here.

YouTube - Obama says families 'off-limits'

He spoke out against it. What else do you want the guy to do? Go around shooting people who decide to speak their mind?

Also, do not even compare Joe Biden as a father to Sarah Palin as a mother. Joe Biden lost his first wife and his daughter. Yet he had the courage and stength to not only continue on but raised his two boys as a single father. Not only that but he continued to be in the senate, taking the train as mentioned above because he wanted to make a difference.

Barack Obama hit the nail on the head when it came to Joe Biden.

This is how the Republican cheerleader feels about teen pregancies:

YouTube - Obama on The Factor! Will Bill O'Reilly Attack?

Doublethink my friends, Sarah Palin isn't a widower and she has a husband to help raise her kids.

Again, if your going to try and spin that the Obama Campaign has "subtle sexism" then at least have some truth to back up. Just not opinion and BS.

Except that...
Obama Campaign National Finance Committee Member Criticizes Palin's Parenting

Now you think O'reilly in anyway is a representative of the MCcain campaign?

Palin is the mother of 5 children, one with Down's syndrome. If Biden can do it so can Palin. The only motivation for suggesting that she couldn't would be solely based in sexism.

 

[Modbert]

Except that...
Obama Campaign National Finance Committee Member Criticizes Palin's Parenting

Now you think O'reilly in anyway is a representative of the MCcain campaign?

Palin is the mother of 5 children, one with Down's syndrome. If Biden can do it so can Palin. The only motivation for suggesting that she couldn't would be solely based in sexism.

So all of a sudden one member of Obama's campaign represents Obama? Man McCain must think alot of messed up things since he's had to "release" or say that certain people don't "represent him" because of the messed up statements they've made.

No, I don't think O'Reilly is a representative of the McCain campaign. But I wanted you to go and make claims about the people on your side of the fence who might actually deserve it before you dare think about coming to this side.

Palin is a mother of five children, one with Down's syndrome. Biden was a single father of two boys.

Sarah Palin is married, Joe Biden was not.

Now if this was Barack Obama's 17 year old daughter pregnant, you right-wingers on this board (least half of you anyway) would be all over this like a bee to honey. Bringing it up and making a cheapshot on Liberals about it at every chance you can get.

Perhaps Obama's Campaign National Finance Committee Member thinks that Palin should be at home with her baby who has Down Syndrome. Perhaps this person thinks that she should be home with her pregnant daughter. Perhaps this person thinks that she should be at home putting family before Political aspirations. Whatever the reason may be, it's all a matter of opinion.

Joe Biden's sons were in the hospital, he use to visit them every night once he got done at the senate. They had no such diseases,etc. Perhaps this is why this person thought Joe could be in the senate but Sarah couldn't be Vice President? I'm not a mind reader.

All I know is the facts, and if your accusing the Obama Campaign of Sexism because this Campaign National Finance Committee Member (Member, not even leader) then it's only fair to state that anyone in John McCain's campaign who has made a whacky statement represents John McCain.

And by your standards, the McCain Campaign and GOP are giving off subtle racism.

Oh what? Don't like the mud being flinged back? Well don't worry, I'm not going down to that level.

 

[jreeves]

So all of a sudden one member of Obama's campaign represents Obama? Man McCain must think alot of messed up things since he's had to "release" or say that certain people don't "represent him" because of the messed up statements they've made.

No, I don't think O'Reilly is a representative of the McCain campaign. But I wanted you to go and make claims about the people on your side of the fence who might actually deserve it before you dare think about coming to this side.

Palin is a mother of five children, one with Down's syndrome. Biden was a single father of two boys.

Sarah Palin is married, Joe Biden was not.

Now if this was Barack Obama's 17 year old daughter pregnant, you right-wingers on this board (least half of you anyway) would be all over this like a bee to honey. Bringing it up and making a cheapshot on Liberals about it at every chance you can get.

Perhaps Obama's Campaign National Finance Committee Member thinks that Palin should be at home with her baby who has Down Syndrome. Perhaps this person thinks that she should be home with her pregnant daughter. Perhaps this person thinks that she should be at home putting family before Political aspirations. Whatever the reason may be, it's all a matter of opinion.

Joe Biden's sons were in the hospital, he use to visit them every night once he got done at the senate. They had no such diseases,etc. Perhaps this is why this person thought Joe could be in the senate but Sarah couldn't be Vice President? I'm not a mind reader.

All I know is the facts, and if your accusing the Obama Campaign of Sexism because this Campaign National Finance Committee Member (Member, not even leader) then it's only fair to state that anyone in John McCain's campaign who has made a whacky statement represents John McCain.

And by your standards, the McCain Campaign and GOP are giving off subtle racism.

Oh what? Don't like the mud being flinged back? Well don't worry, I'm not going down to that level.

Show me one instance in which a National member of his campaign has made a racist comment?

 

[Modbert]

Show me one instance in which a National member of his campaign has made a racist comment?

Show me one instance in which Barack Obama has made a sexist comment.

Then I will believe Barack Obama's campaign is sexist.

Until then, just like the Racist claim; your claim holds no ground. That was my whole point in the first place.

BS is BS, no matter which way you spin it Jreeves.

 

[jreeves]

Show me one instance in which Barack Obama has made a sexist comment.

Then I will believe Barack Obama's campaign is sexist.

Until then, just like the Racist claim; your claim holds no ground. That was my whole point in the first place.

BS is BS, no matter which way you spin it Jreeves.

When a member of your National campaign team makes a sexist comment, you as the candidate of the campaign are responsible for those comments. If he really doesn't subscribe to the sexist comment then Gutman should be fired.

 

[Modbert]

When a member of your National campaign team makes a sexist comment, you as the candidate of the campaign are responsible for those comments. If he really doesn't subscribe to the sexist comment then Gutman should be fired.

Perhaps he will be fired. Again I'm not a mind-reader but you take the comment as sexist. Would you allow him to explain his answer or would you automatically put your fingers in your ears screaming LALALA I can't hear you!!!?

Again, you assume that the only possibility is that this comment is sexist. After all you do in denouncing "assumptions" based off no concrete evidence is hypocritical.

I agree though, if he did make a sexist comment then he should be fired. You of all people should know I'm not sexist considering our convo earlier.

 

[jreeves]

Perhaps he will be fired. Again I'm not a mind-reader but you take the comment as sexist. Would you allow him to explain his answer or would you automatically put your fingers in your ears screaming LALALA I can't hear you!!!?

Again, you assume that the only possibility is that this comment is sexist. After all you do in denouncing "assumptions" based off no concrete evidence is hypocritical.

I agree though, if he did make a sexist comment then he should be fired. You of all people should know I'm not sexist considering our convo earlier.

How can a man take care of his family while running for a VP position, while a woman can't run for a VP position and still take care of her family? Even by your own admission he had more dire conditions. How is that not sexist?

 

[Modbert]

How can a man take care of his family while running for a VP position, while a woman can't run for a VP position and still take care of her family? Even by your own admission he had more dire conditions. How is that not sexist?

I feel that Joe Biden's biggest challenge was coping with the loss of his wife and only daughter at the time. For many men, that would crush them and end up shattering them. He braved on, watched his sons recover, and was the best father he could to them.

Differences between Joe Biden and Sarah Palin (Presently)

Joe Biden: He is married to Jill Tracy Jacobs, his net worth is between $59,000 - $366,000. (So he's one of the least richest senators in the senate)

They have one daughter (Ashley Blazer) who was born in 1981 which would make her around 26/27.

He has two sons (Joseph Biden III who was born in 1969 making him almost 40 and Robert Hunter born in 1970 which makes him 38 near 39.

Joe Biden was only a senator when all that happened to his family.


Now on the flip side, Sarah Palin running for Vice President of the United States:

She eloped to Todd Palin (1988)

They have five children:

Track (1989) which would make him almost 20.

Bristol (1990) who is seventeen and 5 months pregnant.

Willow (1995) who is about twelve.

Piper (2001) who is about seven.

And of course Trig (2008) who is only a couple months old and has Down's Syndrome.

There is a huge difference between Joe Biden running for VP and his family compared to Sarah Palin.

Do you perhaps have yours/their statements mixed up or something?

Though I think we both can agree that it's not easy (but possible) for one parent to be taking care of 3-4 children a day. (4-5 if you count their grandkid on the way)

And we both can agree that if a mother is alive, a child needs it's mother.

I'm not saying this should disqualify Sarah Palin from the VP role, just saying those are facts.

 

[jreeves]

I feel that Joe Biden's biggest challenge was coping with the loss of his wife and only daughter at the time. For many men, that would crush them and end up shattering them. He braved on, watched his sons recover, and was the best father he could to them.

Differences between Joe Biden and Sarah Palin (Presently)

Joe Biden: He is married to Jill Tracy Jacobs, his net worth is between $59,000 - $366,000. (So he's one of the least richest senators in the senate)

They have one daughter (Ashley Blazer) who was born in 1981 which would make her around 26/27.

He has two sons (Joseph Biden III who was born in 1969 making him almost 40 and Robert Hunter born in 1970 which makes him 38 near 39.

Joe Biden was only a senator when all that happened to his family.


Now on the flip side, Sarah Palin running for Vice President of the United States:

She eloped to Todd Palin (1988)

They have five children:

Track (1989) which would make him almost 20.

Bristol (1990) who is seventeen and 5 months pregnant.

Willow (1995) who is about twelve.

Piper (2001) who is about seven.

And of course Trig (2008) who is only a couple months old and has Down's Syndrome.

There is a huge difference between Joe Biden running for VP and his family compared to Sarah Palin.

Do you perhaps have yours/their statements mixed up or something?

Though I think we both can agree that it's not easy (but possible) for one parent to be taking care of 3-4 children a day. (4-5 if you count their grandkid on the way)

And we both can agree that if a mother is alive, a child needs it's mother.

I'm not saying this should disqualify Sarah Palin from the VP role, just saying those are facts.

So Biden can cope with all of those adversities as a US Senator, being a single father. But Palin couldn't cope with being a mother while serving as Vice President..sure I understand. Hmm...I think the grandkid would be Bristol's and her husbands responsibility correct? Sexist sorry...no matter how you cut it.

 

[Modbert]

So Biden can cope with all of those adversities as a US Senator, being a single father. But Palin couldn't cope with being a mother while serving as Vice President..sure I understand. Hmm...I think the grandkid would be Bristol's and her husbands responsibility correct? Sexist sorry...no matter how you cut it.

Well don't sell the man short. He was a single father of two boys but I'm sure he was able to balance it.

There's a difference in jobs between Senator and Vice President.

Bristol and Levi are 17/18, you really think they are going to be raising that kid all on their own? If so, you really are drinking too much of the GOP kool-aid.

Levi doesn't even want his kids for the record. Sarah and Todd will of course help Bristol raise the child while she gets an education at some fancy college.

There's also a difference between raising a 2 and 3 year old boy by yourself as a single father and raising a seventeen year old who's pregnant, a twelve year old, a seven year old, and a less then a year old baby with down's syndrome. Husband or not, it's not easy raising 4 kids, especially one who needs extra attention and care.

How about you just wait to see if Obama fires the guy or makes him explain his answer. Can you withhold your anger until then?

 

[DiveCon]

Except that...
Obama Campaign National Finance Committee Member Criticizes Palin's Parenting

Now you think O'reilly in anyway is a representative of the MCcain campaign?

Palin is the mother of 5 children, one with Down's syndrome. If Biden can do it so can Palin. The only motivation for suggesting that she couldn't would be solely based in sexism.

i await the news that this guy has been fired

 

[jreeves]

Well don't sell the man short. He was a single father of two boys but I'm sure he was able to balance it.

There's a difference in jobs between Senator and Vice President.

Bristol and Levi are 17/18, you really think they are going to be raising that kid all on their own? If so, you really are drinking too much of the GOP kool-aid. Levi doesn't even want his kids for the record. Sarah and Todd will of course help Bristol raise the child while she gets an education at some fancy college.

There's also a difference between raising a 2 and 3 year old boy by yourself as a single father and raising a seventeen year old who's pregnant, a twelve year old, a seven year old, and a less then a year old baby with down's syndrome. Husband or not, it's not easy raising 4 kids, especially one who needs extra attention and care.

How about you just wait to see if Obama fires the guy or makes him explain his answer. Can you withhold your anger until then?

17 and 18 year olds do it all the time, raise a child. Sure she will still be Bristol's parent but to assume they can't do it, is baseless.

I will wait and see what happens to this guy. We'll see...
Why Hasn’t Obama Fired Howard Gutman? : Stop The ACLU

 

[Modbert]

i await the news that this guy has been fired

If he doesn't explain himself to Obama and then the general public then I expect a firing by tuesday at the latest. Or tomorrow at the soonest.

Obama has called Palin a "skillful politican" on saturday.

He's not sexist, I figured everybody would least know that much by now.

 

[DiveCon]

Well don't sell the man short. He was a single father of two boys but I'm sure he was able to balance it.

There's a difference in jobs between Senator and Vice President.

Bristol and Levi are 17/18, you really think they are going to be raising that kid all on their own? If so, you really are drinking too much of the GOP kool-aid.

Levi doesn't even want his kids for the record. Sarah and Todd will of course help Bristol raise the child while she gets an education at some fancy college.

There's also a difference between raising a 2 and 3 year old boy by yourself as a single father and raising a seventeen year old who's pregnant, a twelve year old, a seven year old, and a less then a year old baby with down's syndrome. Husband or not, it's not easy raising 4 kids, especially one who needs extra attention and care.

How about you just wait to see if Obama fires the guy or makes him explain his answer. Can you withhold your anger until then?

ok, thats not the first time you've done this, enough with the GOP koolaid BS since there are way more DEMS on the koolaid than members of the GOP
in case you hadnt noticed, until the pick of Palin, a lot of republicans were either thinking of voting 3rd party(ME for one) or were staying home

 

[Modbert]

17 and 18 year olds do it all the time, raise a child. Sure she will still be Bristol's parent but to assume they can't do it, is baseless.

I will wait and see what happens to this guy. We'll see...
Why Hasn’t Obama Fired Howard Gutman? : Stop The ACLU

You know, that doesn't seem like a credible and valid source to me Jreeves.

17 and 18 year olds do raise a child all the time out of wedlock (least at first). The GOP likes to condemn when people do that, but not Bristol! I'm not assuming they can't do it, but Bristol has a responsibility to finish her education and raise her child. There's only so many hours in a day.

As I said already in this thread, if he said a sexist comment then he deserves to be fired. I don't tolerate ignorance or sexist/racist remarks outside this board or on it.

That's why I even brought up in that thread that I won't mention here Jreeves.

 

[DiveCon]

You know, that doesn't seem like a credible and valid source to me Jreeves.

17 and 18 year olds do raise a child all the time out of wedlock (least at first). The GOP likes to condemn when people do that, but not Bristol! I'm not assuming they can't do it, but Bristol has a responsibility to finish her education and raise her child. There's only so many hours in a day.

As I said already in this thread, if he said a sexist comment then he deserves to be fired. I don't tolerate ignorance or sexist/racist remarks outside this board or on it.

That's why I even brought up in that thread that I won't mention here Jreeves.

wrong, we don't condemn them, not condoning it is not the same thing

 

[Modbert]

ok, thats not the first time you've done this, enough with the GOP koolaid BS since there are way more DEMS on the koolaid than members of the GOP
in case you hadnt noticed, until the pick of Palin, a lot of republicans were either thinking of voting 3rd party(ME for one) or were staying home

So he picked Palin and now you drink from the Kool-Aid that McCain is all of a sudden the best choice.

I'm not on any kool-aid since I've made several comments about several Democrats on this board in my short time here.

The choice of Palin for VP also drove plenty of independents to the Democrats or to just stay home on Election Day.

 

[DiveCon]

So he picked Palin and now you drink from the Kool-Aid that McCain is all of a sudden the best choice.

I'm not on any kool-aid since I've made several comments about several Democrats on this board in my short time here.

The choice of Palin for VP also drove plenty of independents to the Democrats or to just stay home on Election Day.

wrong, i've known about Palin for some time now
i think she is an excelent choice and would be good for the future of the party
and i doubt she will shove anyone away from McCain