Seven Samurai vs. Magnificent Seven, why the Mag Seven fails in it's concept...

[2aguy]

The Magnificent Seven is now coming out as a remake this friday...so I thought I would point out a thing or two...or really just one thing....

The Seven Samurai worked as a concept because Japan practiced gun control.....or back then Sword/Bow control....peasants were legally barred from owning or practicing weapons and martial arts....the Samurai could murder a peasant caught practising swordsmanship.......it was their right and duty....

So...the Seven Samurai is a about a village of unarmed peasants who are being victimized by a bunch of criminals.....since the adage, when you outlaw guns (swords/bows) only outlaws with have guns (swords/bows)...so they hire 7 armed Samurai to protect their village.......

The original Magnificent Seven, a copy of the Seven Samurai, but with cowboys......came close...they were hired by a Mexican village...also an unarmed people being attacked by armed outlaws...so they had to hire American cowboys who had guns to protect them......

Now we come to the newest version......and it doesn't work...why? Because in the old west....all Americans could own and carry guns for self defense.....so having to hire armed guards isn't as necessary.....since all the people in the village could own and carry guns to use against a gang of bad guys.....

Only unarmed people are victims of mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing....and movie outlaws....

Now...I haven't seen the movie...perhaps the village is filled with Quakers......or some other reason...we'll see......

 

[Unkotare]

Wow, inaccurate and trying way too hard.

 

[2aguy]

Wow, inaccurate and trying way too hard.

Please explain.....

 

[Disir]

The Magnificent Seven is now coming out as a remake this friday...so I thought I would point out a thing or two...or really just one thing....

The Seven Samurai worked as a concept because Japan practiced gun control.....or back then Sword/Bow control....peasants were legally barred from owning or practicing weapons and martial arts....the Samurai could murder a peasant caught practising swordsmanship.......it was their right and duty....

So...the Seven Samurai is a about a village of unarmed peasants who are being victimized by a bunch of criminals.....since the adage, when you outlaw guns (swords/bows) only outlaws with have guns (swords/bows)...so they hire 7 armed Samurai to protect their village.......

The original Magnificent Seven, a copy of the Seven Samurai, but with cowboys......came close...they were hired by a Mexican village...also an unarmed people being attacked by armed outlaws...so they had to hire American cowboys who had guns to protect them......

Now we come to the newest version......and it doesn't work...why? Because in the old west....all Americans could own and carry guns for self defense.....so having to hire armed guards isn't as necessary.....since all the people in the village could own and carry guns to use against a gang of bad guys.....

Only unarmed people are victims of mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing....and movie outlaws....

Now...I haven't seen the movie...perhaps the village is filled with Quakers......or some other reason...we'll see......

Ok, look. I know the yada yada yada about Magnificent Seven copy of Seven Samurai but as far as I am concerned it was not even close. The Seven Samurai was in a class all of it's own and you can't touch it. It's about culture and the Magnificent Seven couldn't even get there.

That said, the Magnificent Seven was awesome because it had ever cheesy line that worked and.......Yul Brenner. It's in a class of it's own.

I am really hesitant about even watching the remake.

The remake can't be close if the original wasn't even close.

 

[Unkotare]

Wow, inaccurate and trying way too hard.

Please explain.....

Your trying to make the films a referendum on 2nd Amendment rights doesn't fit. Trying way too hard.


The Mexican villagers couldn't afford guns and ammunition , and couldn't shoot straight if they had them (as the film makes clear). They had to try and make use of other skills.

 

[2aguy]

Wow, inaccurate and trying way too hard.

Please explain.....

Your trying to make the films a referendum on 2nd Amendment rights doesn't fit. Trying way too hard.


The Mexican villagers couldn't afford guns and ammunition , and couldn't shoot straight if they had them (as the film makes clear). They had to try and make use of other skills.

Yes....they were unarmed...my point.........and the Japanese farmers were also unarmed......by law.....but the old west...everyone had a weapon of some sort and could shoot......so how are they going to make the town vulnerable to the outlaws?

 

[Disir]

Actually, in the old west there were plenty towns you had to turn your guns in when you got there.

Dodge City and Tombstone were two.

 

[2aguy]

Actually, in the old west there were plenty towns you had to turn your guns in when you got there.

Dodge City and Tombstone were two.

Sorry.....I have pointed out in other posts about Tombstone and how the criminals ignored the law there....remember, one Earp was murdered and the other had his arm shot and made useless by criminals using guns in the town where they had to turn them in.......and remember a little event called the Shoot Out at the O.K. Corral.......they again didn't turn in their guns....

Gun control only works for law abiding citizens...and both towns show this as well....

 

[Disir]

Actually, in the old west there were plenty towns you had to turn your guns in when you got there.

Dodge City and Tombstone were two.

Sorry.....I have pointed out in other posts about Tombstone and how the criminals ignored the law there....remember, one Earp was murdered and the other had his arm shot and made useless by criminals using guns in the town where they had to turn them in.......and remember a little event called the Shoot Out at the O.K. Corral.......they again didn't turn in their guns....

Gun control only works for law abiding citizens...and both towns show this as well....

It didn't take place at the O.K. Corral and Ike Clanton and Tom McLaury turned their guns in. One 30 second gun fight out of what?

 

[Unkotare]

.... the old west...everyone had a weapon of some sort and could shoot...........

In the Old West gunfights were actually very rare. Most people could probably shoot as well as me (which is to say not at all). A group of professional killers would be as impossible to overcome for them as it would be for you today.

 

[2aguy]

Actually, in the old west there were plenty towns you had to turn your guns in when you got there.

Dodge City and Tombstone were two.

Sorry.....I have pointed out in other posts about Tombstone and how the criminals ignored the law there....remember, one Earp was murdered and the other had his arm shot and made useless by criminals using guns in the town where they had to turn them in.......and remember a little event called the Shoot Out at the O.K. Corral.......they again didn't turn in their guns....

Gun control only works for law abiding citizens...and both towns show this as well....

It didn't take place at the O.K. Corral and Ike Clanton and Tom McLaury turned their guns in. One 30 second gun fight out of what?

Correct...it did not take place at the corral.....but you are also wrong about gun control in Tombstone...it didn't work any better than it does in Chicago today........the criminals ignored the law when they wanted to.....and again....one Earp was murdered in town, the other was maimed in town...by criminals with guns...

Here you go...read up on the actual Tombstone situation and how the criminals actually ignored the gun control laws....killing land wounding the Earps....

Gunfight at the O.K. Corral - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of many people who ignored Tombstone gun control....and he was a good guy....

Joyce ordered Holliday removed from the saloon but would not return Holliday's revolver. But Holliday returned carrying a double-action revolver. Milt brandished a pistol and threatened Holliday, but Holliday shot Joyce in the palm, disarming him, and then shot Joyce's business partner William Parker in the big toe

-----

Boyle later testified he noticed Ike was armed and covered his gun for him. Boyle later said that Ike told him, "'As soon as the Earps and Doc Holliday showed themselves on the street, the ball would open—that they would have to fight'...

------

Later in the morning, Ike picked up his rifle and revolver from the West End Corral, where he had deposited his weapons and stabled his wagon and team after entering town. By noon that day, Ike was still drinking and once-again armed in violation of the city ordinance against carrying firearms in the city.

--------

Tom McLaury's concealed weapon[edit]

Outside the court house where Ike was being fined, Wyatt almost walked into 28 year-old Tom McLaury as the two men were brought up short nose-to-nose. Tom, who had arrived in town the day before, was required by the well-known city ordinance to deposit his pistol when he first arrived in town. When Wyatt demanded, "Are you heeled or not?", McLaury said he was not armed. Wyatt testified that he saw arevolver in plain sight on the right hip of Tom's pants

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Billy and Frank stopped first at the Grand Hotel on Allen Street, and were greeted by Doc Holliday. They learned immediately after of their brothers' beatings by the Earps within the previous two hours. The incidents had generated a lot of talk in town. Angrily, Frank said he would not drink, and he and Billy left the saloon immediately to seek Tom.

By law, both Frank and Billy should have left their firearms at the Grand Hotel. Instead, they remained fully armed.[2]:49[57]:190

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Virgil testified afterward that he thought he saw all four men, Ike Clanton, Billy Clanton, Frank McLaury, and Tom McLaury, buying cartridges.[79] Wyatt said that he saw Billy Clanton and Frank McLaury in Spangenberger's gun and hardware store on 4th Street filling theirgun belts with cartridges


Hmmmmmmmm...doesn't seem like the Tombstone gun control laws worked so far...

Virgil initially avoided a confrontation with the newly arrived Frank McLaury and Billy Clanton, who had not yet deposited their weapons at a hotel or stable as the law required.

------------

At about 2:30 pm he saw Ike, Frank, Tom, and Billy gathered off Fremont street. Behan attempted to persuade Frank McLaury to give up his weapons, but Frank insisted that he would only give up his guns after City Marshal Virgil Earp and his brothers were disarmed.[81]

-----------

Citizens reported to Virgil on the Cowboys' movements that Ike and Tom had left their livery stable and returned to town while armed, in violation of the city ordinance.


Gun control only works for those who will obey the laws...law abiding citizens....so any gun control will completely fail at disarming criminals and mass shooters.

Does it seem like Tombstone gun laws were working?

 

[2aguy]

.... the old west...everyone had a weapon of some sort and could shoot...........

In the Old West gunfights were actually very rare. Most people could probably shoot as well as me (which is to say not at all). A group of professional killers would be as impossible to overcome for them as it would be for you today.

Sorry......the situation is not the same between Japanese farmers...completely disarmed by their feudal rulers, and American farmers and ranchers in the American west.....all of whom would have had some form of firearm, at least a rifle of some sort....

 

[Skull Pilot]

I never waste my money on these remakes.
They usually suck and add nothing new to the original story

 

[Unkotare]

.... the old west...everyone had a weapon of some sort and could shoot...........

In the Old West gunfights were actually very rare. Most people could probably shoot as well as me (which is to say not at all). A group of professional killers would be as impossible to overcome for them as it would be for you today.

Sorry......the situation is not the same between Japanese farmers...completely disarmed by their feudal rulers, and American farmers and ranchers in the American west.....all of whom would have had some form of firearm, at least a rifle of some sort....

Do you know where the weapons of Okinawan martial arts come from?


If you want to use movies as a reference, ever see High Plains Drifter?

 

[Syriusly]

Wow, inaccurate and trying way too hard.

Please explain.....

Your trying to make the films a referendum on 2nd Amendment rights doesn't fit. Trying way too hard.


The Mexican villagers couldn't afford guns and ammunition , and couldn't shoot straight if they had them (as the film makes clear). They had to try and make use of other skills.

Yes....they were unarmed...my point.........and the Japanese farmers were also unarmed......by law.....but the old west...everyone had a weapon of some sort and could shoot......so how are they going to make the town vulnerable to the outlaws?

Did you ever watch the Seven Samurai?

It wasn't that the farmers were unarmed- it was that they didn't know how to fight- and didn't want to fight for themselves.

The farmers had weapons and armor-

However, the six samurai are angered when Kikuchiyo brings them armor and weapons, which the villagers most likely acquired by killing injured or dying samurai.

Thread fail- but always good to remind people of what a great movie the Seven Samurai is

 

[Syriusly]

.... the old west...everyone had a weapon of some sort and could shoot...........

In the Old West gunfights were actually very rare. Most people could probably shoot as well as me (which is to say not at all). A group of professional killers would be as impossible to overcome for them as it would be for you today.

Sorry......the situation is not the same between Japanese farmers...completely disarmed by their feudal rulers, and American farmers and ranchers in the American west.....all of whom would have had some form of firearm, at least a rifle of some sort....

Towns people did not always own fire arms. Frontier towns often had rules against carrying guns in town- Wyett Earp is famed for enforcing such laws.

Beyond that- armed civilians with guns against experienced gun men tended not to end well.

 

[Divine Wind]

The Magnificent Seven is now coming out as a remake this friday...so I thought I would point out a thing or two...or really just one thing....

The Seven Samurai worked as a concept because Japan practiced gun control.....or back then Sword/Bow control....peasants were legally barred from owning or practicing weapons and martial arts....the Samurai could murder a peasant caught practising swordsmanship.......it was their right and duty....

So...the Seven Samurai is a about a village of unarmed peasants who are being victimized by a bunch of criminals.....since the adage, when you outlaw guns (swords/bows) only outlaws with have guns (swords/bows)...so they hire 7 armed Samurai to protect their village.......

The original Magnificent Seven, a copy of the Seven Samurai, but with cowboys......came close...they were hired by a Mexican village...also an unarmed people being attacked by armed outlaws...so they had to hire American cowboys who had guns to protect them......

Now we come to the newest version......and it doesn't work...why? Because in the old west....all Americans could own and carry guns for self defense.....so having to hire armed guards isn't as necessary.....since all the people in the village could own and carry guns to use against a gang of bad guys.....

Only unarmed people are victims of mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing....and movie outlaws....

Now...I haven't seen the movie...perhaps the village is filled with Quakers......or some other reason...we'll see......

Disagreed in that even armed townsfolk could hire professionals to protect them since, while anyone with a gun could try to defend themselves, having a professional not only allowed the hired guns to take most of the risk, but it was their job to be proficient at the use of firearms.

This concept was also used in another movie "High Plains Drifter" and also IRL such as Wyatt Earp, John Wesley Harding, Tom Horn, Pinkerton agents and dozens of other "hired guns":

The Complete List of Old West Gunfighters - A-B

The Pinkerton Detective Agency - Operating for 150 Years

 

[2aguy]

Wow, inaccurate and trying way too hard.

Please explain.....

Your trying to make the films a referendum on 2nd Amendment rights doesn't fit. Trying way too hard.


The Mexican villagers couldn't afford guns and ammunition , and couldn't shoot straight if they had them (as the film makes clear). They had to try and make use of other skills.

Yes....they were unarmed...my point.........and the Japanese farmers were also unarmed......by law.....but the old west...everyone had a weapon of some sort and could shoot......so how are they going to make the town vulnerable to the outlaws?

Did you ever watch the Seven Samurai?

It wasn't that the farmers were unarmed- it was that they didn't know how to fight- and didn't want to fight for themselves.

The farmers had weapons and armor-

However, the six samurai are angered when Kikuchiyo brings them armor and weapons, which the villagers most likely acquired by killing injured or dying samurai.

Thread fail- but always good to remind people of what a great movie the Seven Samurai is

Do you know anything about Feudal Japan.....non Samurai could not train in weapons, especially the Sword and Bow...if they were caught they could be executed on the spot.....the weapons and armor were illegal for them to own.......

 

[2aguy]

The Magnificent Seven is now coming out as a remake this friday...so I thought I would point out a thing or two...or really just one thing....

The Seven Samurai worked as a concept because Japan practiced gun control.....or back then Sword/Bow control....peasants were legally barred from owning or practicing weapons and martial arts....the Samurai could murder a peasant caught practising swordsmanship.......it was their right and duty....

So...the Seven Samurai is a about a village of unarmed peasants who are being victimized by a bunch of criminals.....since the adage, when you outlaw guns (swords/bows) only outlaws with have guns (swords/bows)...so they hire 7 armed Samurai to protect their village.......

The original Magnificent Seven, a copy of the Seven Samurai, but with cowboys......came close...they were hired by a Mexican village...also an unarmed people being attacked by armed outlaws...so they had to hire American cowboys who had guns to protect them......

Now we come to the newest version......and it doesn't work...why? Because in the old west....all Americans could own and carry guns for self defense.....so having to hire armed guards isn't as necessary.....since all the people in the village could own and carry guns to use against a gang of bad guys.....

Only unarmed people are victims of mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing....and movie outlaws....

Now...I haven't seen the movie...perhaps the village is filled with Quakers......or some other reason...we'll see......

Disagreed in that even armed townsfolk could hire professionals to protect them since, while anyone with a gun could try to defend themselves, having a professional not only allowed the hired guns to take most of the risk, but it was their job to be proficient at the use of firearms.

This concept was also used in another movie "High Plains Drifter" and also IRL such as Wyatt Earp, John Wesley Harding, Tom Horn, Pinkerton agents and dozens of other "hired guns":

The Complete List of Old West Gunfighters - A-B

The Pinkerton Detective Agency - Operating for 150 Years

Not saying they couldn't, but American's in the west were armed.....and the ability to abuse them like they did in Japan and Mexico is not the same.....

 

[2aguy]

.... the old west...everyone had a weapon of some sort and could shoot...........

In the Old West gunfights were actually very rare. Most people could probably shoot as well as me (which is to say not at all). A group of professional killers would be as impossible to overcome for them as it would be for you today.

Sorry......the situation is not the same between Japanese farmers...completely disarmed by their feudal rulers, and American farmers and ranchers in the American west.....all of whom would have had some form of firearm, at least a rifle of some sort....

Do you know where the weapons of Okinawan martial arts come from?


If you want to use movies as a reference, ever see High Plains Drifter?

Yes......the nobility of Okinawa was disarmed by the Japanese.....so they had to improvise.......