Settlements

[Shusha]

Shusha

What specifically would you do in the short term to encourage/increase trust and cooperation between the two sides in order to make heterogenous states a more realistic possibility?

I am not sure building trust and cooperation is possible just yet. I think its time for Israel to be both decisive and generous.

As in: "This is our land. That is your land. Here's ten schools. Here's six hospitals. Here's a university and a water treatment plant. Here's a trade agreement. Here's some technology."

 

[abi]

I am not sure building trust and cooperation is possible just yet. I think its time for Israel to be both decisive and generous.

As in: "This is our land. That is your land. Here's ten schools. Here's six hospitals. Here's a university and a water treatment plant. Here's a trade agreement. Here's some technology."

You are so naive to think you can buy these people after a decades long brutal occupation.

End the occupation and guarantee rights of return.

 

[Coyote]

Shusha

What specifically would you do in the short term to encourage/increase trust and cooperation between the two sides in order to make heterogenous states a more realistic possibility?

I am not sure building trust and cooperation is possible just yet. I think its time for Israel to be both decisive and generous.

As in: "This is our land. That is your land. Here's ten schools. Here's six hospitals. Here's a university and a water treatment plant. Here's a trade agreement. Here's some technology."

But that gets us back to the core of the settlement issue and contiguous states. If you can't build trust how can you lay the groundwork for two workable states that accept hostile populations within their borders? By that I mean among the Arabs living in those disputed areas and the Jewish settlers living within those areas.

Does Israel just take all of Area C? That leaves very little for a 2nd state....

 

[Coyote]

I am not sure building trust and cooperation is possible just yet. I think its time for Israel to be both decisive and generous.

As in: "This is our land. That is your land. Here's ten schools. Here's six hospitals. Here's a university and a water treatment plant. Here's a trade agreement. Here's some technology."

You are so naive to think you can buy these people after a decades long brutal occupation.

End the occupation and guarantee rights of return.

Any last solution for peace has to include both sides in the equation.

 

[abi]

disputed areas

Haha ha.

 

[Indeependent]

Shusha

What specifically would you do in the short term to encourage/increase trust and cooperation between the two sides in order to make heterogenous states a more realistic possibility?

I am not sure building trust and cooperation is possible just yet. I think its time for Israel to be both decisive and generous.

As in: "This is our land. That is your land. Here's ten schools. Here's six hospitals. Here's a university and a water treatment plant. Here's a trade agreement. Here's some technology."

But that gets us back to the core of the settlement issue and contiguous states. If you can't build trust how can you lay the groundwork for two workable states that accept hostile populations within their borders? By that I mean among the Arabs living in those disputed areas and the Jewish settlers living within those areas.

Does Israel just take all of Area C? That leaves very little for a 2nd state....

I guarantee you that one day a bleeding heart Liberal will be in the White House and take in all the Palestinians as refugees way before any Arab nation takes in even one.

 

[Coyote]

Shusha

What specifically would you do in the short term to encourage/increase trust and cooperation between the two sides in order to make heterogenous states a more realistic possibility?

I am not sure building trust and cooperation is possible just yet. I think its time for Israel to be both decisive and generous.

As in: "This is our land. That is your land. Here's ten schools. Here's six hospitals. Here's a university and a water treatment plant. Here's a trade agreement. Here's some technology."

But that gets us back to the core of the settlement issue and contiguous states. If you can't build trust how can you lay the groundwork for two workable states that accept hostile populations within their borders? By that I mean among the Arabs living in those disputed areas and the Jewish settlers living within those areas.

Does Israel just take all of Area C? That leaves very little for a 2nd state....

I guarantee you that one day a bleeding heart Liberal will be in the White House and take in all the Palestinians as refugees way before any Arab nation takes in even one.

I'm not absolving the Arab nations.

 

[Indeependent]

Shusha

What specifically would you do in the short term to encourage/increase trust and cooperation between the two sides in order to make heterogenous states a more realistic possibility?

I am not sure building trust and cooperation is possible just yet. I think its time for Israel to be both decisive and generous.

As in: "This is our land. That is your land. Here's ten schools. Here's six hospitals. Here's a university and a water treatment plant. Here's a trade agreement. Here's some technology."

But that gets us back to the core of the settlement issue and contiguous states. If you can't build trust how can you lay the groundwork for two workable states that accept hostile populations within their borders? By that I mean among the Arabs living in those disputed areas and the Jewish settlers living within those areas.

Does Israel just take all of Area C? That leaves very little for a 2nd state....

I guarantee you that one day a bleeding heart Liberal will be in the White House and take in all the Palestinians as refugees way before any Arab nation takes in even one.

I'm not absolving the Arab nations.

Well, there's over a billion people you better start having discussions with.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Settlements
※→ abi, et al,

Oh, for heaven sake...
The Rome Statutes entered into force on 1 July 2002.

• 1948 West Jerusalem becomes territory of Israel.
• 1981 Knesset voted to annex the Golan Heights.​

There is no way to establish where it is illegal to build because borders are subject to negotiation and do not yet exist. There is no defined border. Therefore any designation of "Palestinian territory" is a legal falsehood.

The last legal documents, agreed upon by Arab Palestine, give Israel the legal right to administer Area C. Therefore, there is nothing illegal about Israel administering Area C.

Any land taken in war is a war crime with no statute of limitations. Start there.

(COMMENT)

Of course there is no "statue of limitations." But there are limitations.

Article 29 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court
Non-applicability of statute of limitations

The crimes within the jurisdiction of the Court shall not be subject to any statute of limitations.​

Article 24 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court
Non-retroactivity ratione personae

1. No person shall be criminally responsible under this Statute for conduct prior to the
entry into force of the Statute.
2. In the event of a change in the law applicable to a given case prior to a final judgement,
the law more favourable to the person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted
shall apply.​

Article 22 Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court
Nullum crimen sine lege

1. A person shall not be criminally responsible under this Statute unless the conduct in
question constitutes, at the time it takes place, a crime within the jurisdiction of the
Court.
2. The definition of a crime shall be strictly construed and shall not be extended by
analog y. In case of ambiguity, the definition shall be interpreted in favour of the
person being investigated, prosecuted or convicted.
3. This article shall not affect the characterization of any conduct as criminal under
international law independently of this Statute.
​

What law are you applying to what allegation - when???

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They are FLAGRANT VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL LAW. 14 to zip!

Adopting resolution 2334 (2016) by 14 votes, with the United States abstaining, the Council reiterated its demand that Israel immediately and completely cease all settlement activities in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem.
Israel’s Settlements Have No Legal Validity, Constitute Flagrant Violation of International Law, Security Council Reaffirms | Meetings Coverage and Press Releases

Since when did the UN become international law?

The UN is a bunch of countries ruled by 3rd world despots whose only reason for UN memberships is to siphon money of the US.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

There is no way to establish where it is illegal to build because borders are subject to negotiation and do not yet exist. There is no defined border. Therefore any designation of "Palestinian territory" is a legal falsehood.

The last legal documents, agreed upon by Arab Palestine, give Israel the legal right to administer Area C. Therefore, there is nothing illegal about Israel administering Area C.

Any land taken in war is a war crime with no statute of limitations. Start there.

Why haven't we given Puerto Rico and Guam back to Spain?

 

[Hollie]

I am not sure building trust and cooperation is possible just yet. I think its time for Israel to be both decisive and generous.

As in: "This is our land. That is your land. Here's ten schools. Here's six hospitals. Here's a university and a water treatment plant. Here's a trade agreement. Here's some technology."

You are so naive to think you can buy these people after a decades long brutal occupation.

End the occupation and guarantee rights of return.

Why do Islamics have a right of return to a place they’ve never been to?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Settlements
※→ Coyote, Indeependent, Shusha, et al,

This s very much like a self inflicted wound.

We've had this discussion before, and it's the problem of realistic vs idealistic. YES it would be ideal if what you say could happen. I would be all for it. But there are several points to consider. One is TRUST. There is a helluva lack of it on both sides and justifiably.

So let's even it out and demand the same thing for BOTH sides. If they can not trust one another, then they must be separated from one another. IF Arab Palestine MUST be Jew-free to function, then Israel MUST be Arab- free to function.

Why?
You would expel 1,786,000 or so people, who have lived for generations in what is now Israel so all of Israel is Arab free?

From the Palestinian side - what they see is an erosion of any possible future state with the settlements, and it is pretty far fetched to imagine (or trust) that Israel is going to let them become part of a future Palestinian state. How would you convince them that there WOULD be a contiguous state, irregardless of the settlements?

Simple. You negotiate for a contiguous State and accept any Jews which are in that area. And then you guarantee their safety and their rights. Its easy. Israel has ALREADY done this with the Arabs. If it can be done on the one side then it can be done on the other. Palestine negotiates a contiguous state and Israel negotiates for guarantees of rights and safety for Jews.

In principle I agree. But the settlements increase the tensions. Leave them as they are NOW until a final status is negotiated. And while your at it - mix the populations. Allow non Jews to live with Jews. And encourage the same in Palestinian areas.

Yes, its idealistic. But the alternative is to create two completely ethnically homogeneous states. Which would you prefer to aim for?

My preference would not be the alternative.

Why don't you move to Israel for a year and see what it does to your nerves knowing that an Arab can stab you at any moment.

I suspect the Palestinians feel quite similar not knowing when someone will bust in and take one of their kids in for questioning or shoot a kid for throwing rocks. Works both ways.

(COMMENT)

These parental concerns about are civil enforcement can be alleviated. The Arab Palestinians have to take that set to control themselves. They cannot willingly initiate and engage in an open confrontation with police and security forces, and then be surprised of a response.

If the Arab Palestinians want to live in a like The Barrio 18, then so be it. They may not see it now, but the Street Gangs will start, gradually at first, and then they will be explode. OR, the parents can get a hold of their kids and begin to take responsibility and accountability. Kids have a tendency to emulate the adults. Three generagions of criminal activity by the parents does not go unnoticed by the offspring.

Most Respectfully,
R
R

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Sure. But Netanyahu is being EXCEEDINGLY careful about where he builds.

He demolishes entire towns and builds racial colonies for Jews only. Sheer idiocy.

Demolishes entire towns? Now you have gone stone cold stupid.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Sure. But Netanyahu is being EXCEEDINGLY careful about where he builds.

He demolishes entire towns and builds racial colonies for Jews only. Sheer idiocy.

Meanwhile you lied when you said countries could not keep land captured in war since WW2 there have been instances of JUST that.

This moron thinks that the Argentinians captured the Falkland Islands knowing full well they would have to give the islands back to Great Britain. What would be the point?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I am not sure building trust and cooperation is possible just yet. I think its time for Israel to be both decisive and generous.

As in: "This is our land. That is your land. Here's ten schools. Here's six hospitals. Here's a university and a water treatment plant. Here's a trade agreement. Here's some technology."

You are so naive to think you can buy these people after a decades long brutal occupation.

End the occupation and guarantee rights of return.

Who is going to return to those shitholes the "Palestinians" have created in the West Bank and Gaza?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There is no way to establish where it is illegal to build because borders are subject to negotiation and do not yet exist. There is no defined border. Therefore any designation of "Palestinian territory" is a legal falsehood.

The last legal documents, agreed upon by Arab Palestine, give Israel the legal right to administer Area C. Therefore, there is nothing illegal about Israel administering Area C.

Any land taken in war is a war crime with no statute of limitations. Start there.

Any land taken in war is a war crime with no statute of limitations.

Germany wants their 1913 borders back.

 

[admonit]

Only if you believe that Arab Palestine cannot possibly incorporate any Jewish people into their State.

Do you believe it?

It is my opinion that the Arab Palestinians are currently incapable of peacefully and equally incorporating Jews into their State. I believe that it places those Jews at risk. But, this is still the right thing to do and should be the goal.

Great. And what you suggest to do if Israelis refuse to put their lives at risk and live under Arab sovereignty?
The goal of creating a home for the Jewish people was to let the Jews live in their own national state, not under Arab rule.

 

[Shusha]

7. When the UN says that it will not recognize any changes to the 4 June 1967 lines, including with regard to Jerusalem, other than those agreed by the parties through negotiations; do they include the Oslo Accords, signed by Mahmoud Abbas? Those accords created Area "C", placing Area "C" under which --- the Israeli settlements are encapsulated and, is administered by Israel. When the Arab Palestinians refuse to negotiate because of irreconcilable differences, does this mean the Israelis are a fault?

This.

The working legal argumentation is that negotiations are the solution. And yet, neither the Arab Palestinians nor the UN nor the "world" seem to be capable of upholding the negotiated peace treaty which states clearly that Israel is the administrator of Area C.

 

[abi]

This.

Is stupid and obviously this is what Israel pays millions for to get posted on US forums.

Area C is Palestine.

End the occupation, allow for right of return, hold free and fair elections and let's end this.