Service employees union uses threats, censorship to spike health care debate

[Fraulein Hilda]

Canada rations healthcare.

They have entire bureaucracies dedicated to their waiting lists for elective procedures.

Americans do not want government to make their healthcare choices.

 

[Old Rocks]

When Americans wake up and realize government is going to make their health care decisions, this will lose.

God willing, there are people with money out there to get that message across.

It has nothing to do with God. It has to do with greedy assholes that are making tens of millions of dollars annually to tell you that you cannot have the medicine that you have been paying insurance for.

About 3/4 of the American Citizens are dissatisfied with our Health System. It is long past time for a major change. And this is the time to do it. And when that is done, we can start addressing a number of other inequities in our society.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Sure, that is why over 95% of the Canadians approve of their system.

Actually it's about half of Canadians that approve of the system. Less than half of British. US is also slightly lower than half:

Healthcare System Ratings: U.S., Great Britain, Canada

Annie, that amounts to outright dissassembling on your part. Here is what that site actualy says

Healthcare System Ratings: U.S., Great Britain, Canada

One-fourth of American respondents are either "very" or "somewhat" satisfied with "the availability of affordable healthcare in the nation," (6% very satisfied and 19% somewhat satisfied).This level of satisfaction is significantly lower than in Canada, where 57% are satisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, including 16% who are very satisfied. Roughly 4 in 10 Britons are satisfied (43%), but only 7% say they are very satisfied (similar to the percentage very satisfied in the United States).

Looking at the other side of the coin, 44% of Americans are very dissatisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, and nearly three-fourths (72%) are either somewhat or very dissatisfied. The 44% in the United States who are very dissatisfied with healthcare availability is significantly higher than corresponding figures in either Canada (17%) or Great Britain (25%).

it still looks like only a little over half are satisfied in Can. and the UK.....am i supposed to want this?

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

The only greedy assholes are in government, who are praying to their God that the economy stays lousy long enough so millions of unemployed people beg them to throw them a loaf of bread and give them free health care.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Actually it's about half of Canadians that approve of the system. Less than half of British. US is also slightly lower than half:

Healthcare System Ratings: U.S., Great Britain, Canada

Annie, that amounts to outright dissassembling on your part. Here is what that site actualy says

Healthcare System Ratings: U.S., Great Britain, Canada

One-fourth of American respondents are either "very" or "somewhat" satisfied with "the availability of affordable healthcare in the nation," (6% very satisfied and 19% somewhat satisfied).This level of satisfaction is significantly lower than in Canada, where 57% are satisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, including 16% who are very satisfied. Roughly 4 in 10 Britons are satisfied (43%), but only 7% say they are very satisfied (similar to the percentage very satisfied in the United States).

Looking at the other side of the coin, 44% of Americans are very dissatisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, and nearly three-fourths (72%) are either somewhat or very dissatisfied. The 44% in the United States who are very dissatisfied with healthcare availability is significantly higher than corresponding figures in either Canada (17%) or Great Britain (25%).

it still looks like only a little over half are satisfied in Can. and the UK.....am i supposed to want this?

You're supposed to pretend government won't make your healthcare decisions.

Government is giving you a tax cut and health care.

Now shut the **** up and be happy with that.

 

[Old Rocks]

Canada rations healthcare.

They have entire bureaucracies dedicated to their waiting lists for elective procedures.

Americans do not want government to make their healthcare choices.

Yes, you have to wait longer in Canada for an elective procedure than you do in the US. But that is only if you have good insurance, or are wealthy. Otherwise, in the US, you just do not get the elective procedure.

And their system is much better for non-elective procedures. If you are a cancer or heart patient, you get immediate help, no matter what your financial situation. Again, much of the time in the US, you just die if your financial situation is poor.

 

[Old Rocks]

Actually it's about half of Canadians that approve of the system. Less than half of British. US is also slightly lower than half:

Healthcare System Ratings: U.S., Great Britain, Canada

Annie, that amounts to outright dissassembling on your part. Here is what that site actualy says

Healthcare System Ratings: U.S., Great Britain, Canada

One-fourth of American respondents are either "very" or "somewhat" satisfied with "the availability of affordable healthcare in the nation," (6% very satisfied and 19% somewhat satisfied).This level of satisfaction is significantly lower than in Canada, where 57% are satisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, including 16% who are very satisfied. Roughly 4 in 10 Britons are satisfied (43%), but only 7% say they are very satisfied (similar to the percentage very satisfied in the United States).

Looking at the other side of the coin, 44% of Americans are very dissatisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, and nearly three-fourths (72%) are either somewhat or very dissatisfied. The 44% in the United States who are very dissatisfied with healthcare availability is significantly higher than corresponding figures in either Canada (17%) or Great Britain (25%).

it still looks like only a little over half are satisfied in Can. and the UK.....am i supposed to want this?

But you desire to keep a system where only 25% are satisfied? And that number is rapidly diminishing as more people lose their jobs and insurance. That really sounds logical.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

So we should be content to wait for elective procedures because, after all, it's not FAIR to those who don't get them at all, whoever they are.

Bullshit. The only people who die in this country because they don't have enough money for cancer treatments live in states where their Medicaid programs cut them off and offer them assisted suicide instead. LIKE OREGON!

You think Barack or Michell Obama or Ted Kennedy or Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid are going to wait for elective procedures?

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

Annie, that amounts to outright dissassembling on your part. Here is what that site actualy says

Healthcare System Ratings: U.S., Great Britain, Canada

One-fourth of American respondents are either "very" or "somewhat" satisfied with "the availability of affordable healthcare in the nation," (6% very satisfied and 19% somewhat satisfied).This level of satisfaction is significantly lower than in Canada, where 57% are satisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, including 16% who are very satisfied. Roughly 4 in 10 Britons are satisfied (43%), but only 7% say they are very satisfied (similar to the percentage very satisfied in the United States).

Looking at the other side of the coin, 44% of Americans are very dissatisfied with the availability of affordable healthcare, and nearly three-fourths (72%) are either somewhat or very dissatisfied. The 44% in the United States who are very dissatisfied with healthcare availability is significantly higher than corresponding figures in either Canada (17%) or Great Britain (25%).

it still looks like only a little over half are satisfied in Can. and the UK.....am i supposed to want this?

But you desire to keep a system where only 25% are satisfied? And that number is rapidly diminishing as more people lose their jobs and insurance. That really sounds logical.

How many Americans are going to be satisfied with government making their healthcare choices? Got any polls that say Americans want that?

No, they are being lied to and told they will get free health care, no strings attached.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Rationing of Health Care in Canada

8. Publicly-funded programs will inevitably lead to rationed health care, particularly for the elderly.
False. And bogglingly so. The papers would have a field day if there was the barest hint that this might be true.

One of the things that constantly amazes me here is how well-cared-for the elderly and disabled you see on the streets here are. No, these people are not being thrown out on the curb. In fact, they live longer, healthier, and more productive lives because they’re getting a constant level of care that ensures small things get treated before they become big problems.

The health care system also makes it easier on their caregiving adult children, who have more time to look in on Mom and take her on outings because they aren’t working 60-hour weeks trying to hold onto a job that gives them insurance.
10 Myths About Canadian Health Care, Busted | Physicians for a National Health Program

We have that system here in California, and it's broke babe. The socialists have run out of other people's money to spend.

Canada has a balanced budget and a falling National Debt. So how do they manage that and still take good care of their citizens? Maybe we should look at making our system of government a lot more like theirs?
American national debt vs. Canadian national debt | NowPublic News Coverage


American national debt vs. Canadian national debt
Share: by Bender_420 | December 8, 2005 at 11:27 am
81174 views | 5 Recommendations | 76 comments
OK, so i had a few minutes to kill this morning and decided to look at North American debt levels per citizen.

The Current national debt owed by the USA is well over 8 TRILLION dollars, approximatly $8,128,207,427,249 and RISING. But don't take my word for it, check out the constantly updated and award winning USA Debt Clock.

So, with the current USA population at about 295,734,134, a quick division tells me this works out to $27,484 USD for every man, woman, and child in the United States. Of course, by the time you read this it'll probably be over $27,500 per capita...

In comparison, Canada's national debt is a "mere" $805 billionish (or $690,726,990,157 USD), AND FALLING. Keep in mind that we have a much smaller population, sitting at around 32,805,041, so our per capita debt load, coverted at today's exchange rate of $1 CAD = $0.863408 USD is around $21,055 USD/Canadian, and, thankfully, falling.

Holy crap am i ever happy we Canadians decided not to throw hundreds of billions of dollars into this latest war...

Canada also has only 30 million people to take care of Rocks.....we have more people just in my state.....your trying to make it sound like a national system in this country will be so easy to implement.....from what i hear the more people in a country the harder this type of thing is to implement....most of the countries that get shown to us about how great it works are usually countries with 40-50 million people or less,and most that we seem to hear about usually have half that,the Scandinavian countries for instance......show me a great medical system in a country with a hundred million or more that works great....

 

[Old Rocks]

The only greedy assholes are in government, who are praying to their God that the economy stays lousy long enough so millions of unemployed people beg them to throw them a loaf of bread and give them free health care.

Phil (Enron) Gramm and the Republican Party created this economic debacle. And failed in two wars. Failed in a national disaster, Katrina. Failed to prevent the worst attack on America in the last 150 years. Failed to get the mastermind of an attack that killed 3000 Americans on American soil. Failed our wounded Vets at Walter Reed.

You think after this wonderful record we are going to listen to you Conservatives on any subject? Failure and incompetance is the hallmark of your ideology.

 

[Vel]

Once people understand this is government run healthcare, they will want nothing to do with it.

You know that, don't you?

It's your worst nightmare.

No actually I don't know that.

I currently enjoy socialized medicine thanks to the Veterans' Administration.

It's wonderful.

I had private HC coverage and used private HC facilities for two score years.

This socialized medical treatment I'm getting right now is far superior.

Oh, and incidently?

I'm hardly the only person on this board enjoying the benefits of socialized medicine, am I?

I suspect that Gunny and Retired Gunny and I want to thank you guys for providing us with this wonderful socialized health care system we're covered by, folks.

We're sorry you guys have to sweat that capitalistic HC crises, but we don't.

How good is that government run health care again? HIV and hepatitis. Nice.

Tennessee patients lose trust in VA hospitals after health scare

By Clay Carey
THE TENNESSEAN


For years, Gary Simpson received medical treatment at the VA hospital in Murfreesboro. Never once did he have a complaint.

Now, Simpson and thousands more fear they may have caught serious diseases because of shortcomings at the government-run medical center.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

So we should reward the same government that couldn't manage the housing market and could not take care of a hurricane disaster with making decisions about our healthcare.

Government was not competent to do anything before this, but they will be competent in making our healthcare decisions.

 

[Old Rocks]

So we should be content to wait for elective procedures because, after all, it's not FAIR to those who don't get them at all, whoever they are.

Bullshit. The only people who die in this country because they don't have enough money for cancer treatments live in states where their Medicaid programs cut them off and offer them assisted suicide instead. LIKE OREGON!

You think Barack or Michell Obama or Ted Kennedy or Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid are going to wait for elective procedures?

No, they do not at all have to wait for elective procedures. They have government Health Care. And guess what, in the nations with single payer systems, the government official there get preferential treatment, same as CEO's of any major company.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

We have that system here in California, and it's broke babe. The socialists have run out of other people's money to spend.

Canada has a balanced budget and a falling National Debt. So how do they manage that and still take good care of their citizens? Maybe we should look at making our system of government a lot more like theirs?
American national debt vs. Canadian national debt | NowPublic News Coverage


American national debt vs. Canadian national debt
Share: by Bender_420 | December 8, 2005 at 11:27 am
81174 views | 5 Recommendations | 76 comments
OK, so i had a few minutes to kill this morning and decided to look at North American debt levels per citizen.

The Current national debt owed by the USA is well over 8 TRILLION dollars, approximatly $8,128,207,427,249 and RISING. But don't take my word for it, check out the constantly updated and award winning USA Debt Clock.

So, with the current USA population at about 295,734,134, a quick division tells me this works out to $27,484 USD for every man, woman, and child in the United States. Of course, by the time you read this it'll probably be over $27,500 per capita...

In comparison, Canada's national debt is a "mere" $805 billionish (or $690,726,990,157 USD), AND FALLING. Keep in mind that we have a much smaller population, sitting at around 32,805,041, so our per capita debt load, coverted at today's exchange rate of $1 CAD = $0.863408 USD is around $21,055 USD/Canadian, and, thankfully, falling.

Holy crap am i ever happy we Canadians decided not to throw hundreds of billions of dollars into this latest war...

Canada also has only 30 million people to take care of Rocks.....we have more people just in my state.....your trying to make it sound like a national system in this country will be so easy to implement.....from what i hear the more people in a country the harder this type of thing is to implement....most of the countries that get shown to us about how great it works are usually countries with 40-50 million people or less,and most that we seem to hear about usually have half that,the Scandinavian countries for instance......show me a great medical system in a country with a hundred million or more that works great....

And a border they can cross to the south to get any healthcare they want no matter what how their government rations it.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

So we should be content to wait for elective procedures because, after all, it's not FAIR to those who don't get them at all, whoever they are.

Bullshit. The only people who die in this country because they don't have enough money for cancer treatments live in states where their Medicaid programs cut them off and offer them assisted suicide instead. LIKE OREGON!

You think Barack or Michell Obama or Ted Kennedy or Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid are going to wait for elective procedures?

No, they do not at all have to wait for elective procedures. They have government Health Care. And guess what, in the nations with single payer systems, the government official there get preferential treatment, same as CEO's of any major company.

Go toward the light, babe. Fairness and equality in healthcare is a myth.

 

[Old Rocks]

it still looks like only a little over half are satisfied in Can. and the UK.....am i supposed to want this?

But you desire to keep a system where only 25% are satisfied? And that number is rapidly diminishing as more people lose their jobs and insurance. That really sounds logical.

How many Americans are going to be satisfied with government making their healthcare choices? Got any polls that say Americans want that?

No, they are being lied to and told they will get free health care, no strings attached.

Like hell. What they see, is a system that will continue even when they lose their jobs. A system that will protect them should they become disabled. Or when they are old.

This is not a something for nothing proposition. The Canadians pay about 10% in taxes than they did before the Health Care system. Compared to what my very generous employer pays, that is a bargain. The nations that have these systems per capita health expenses are about 1/2 of what ours are. And they have a longer average life span, a healthier old age, and a much lower infant mortality rate than the US.

 

[Fraulein Hilda]

We already dealt with your bullshit about infant mortality.

Americans life spans would be longer were it not for violent deaths and higher disease rates for non-whites.

Americans don't want government making their healthcare decisions. You have to lie about that over and over and over again to pull this scam off.

 

[Old Rocks]

We have that system here in California, and it's broke babe. The socialists have run out of other people's money to spend.

Canada has a balanced budget and a falling National Debt. So how do they manage that and still take good care of their citizens? Maybe we should look at making our system of government a lot more like theirs?
American national debt vs. Canadian national debt | NowPublic News Coverage


American national debt vs. Canadian national debt
Share: by Bender_420 | December 8, 2005 at 11:27 am
81174 views | 5 Recommendations | 76 comments
OK, so i had a few minutes to kill this morning and decided to look at North American debt levels per citizen.

The Current national debt owed by the USA is well over 8 TRILLION dollars, approximatly $8,128,207,427,249 and RISING. But don't take my word for it, check out the constantly updated and award winning USA Debt Clock.

So, with the current USA population at about 295,734,134, a quick division tells me this works out to $27,484 USD for every man, woman, and child in the United States. Of course, by the time you read this it'll probably be over $27,500 per capita...

In comparison, Canada's national debt is a "mere" $805 billionish (or $690,726,990,157 USD), AND FALLING. Keep in mind that we have a much smaller population, sitting at around 32,805,041, so our per capita debt load, coverted at today's exchange rate of $1 CAD = $0.863408 USD is around $21,055 USD/Canadian, and, thankfully, falling.

Holy crap am i ever happy we Canadians decided not to throw hundreds of billions of dollars into this latest war...

Canada also has only 30 million people to take care of Rocks.....we have more people just in my state.....your trying to make it sound like a national system in this country will be so easy to implement.....from what i hear the more people in a country the harder this type of thing is to implement....most of the countries that get shown to us about how great it works are usually countries with 40-50 million people or less,and most that we seem to hear about usually have half that,the Scandinavian countries for instance......show me a great medical system in a country with a hundred million or more that works great....

Sheesh. Wake up and smell the coffee, roses, or whatever. We are the nation that put a man on the moon in less than a decade. Yet you say that we cannot implement a real Health Care System for all of our citizens? Come on, you Conservatives have become the party of NO. NO, WE CANNOT. We are too feckless, too lazy, too enamored with paying CEO billions of dollars for failure.

Certainly, from the lessons of the prior administration, you fellows cannot. But this is not the prior administration. And the people voted for definate change. 365 electorial votes, 60 Dem Senators, 265 Dem Reps. Change we will have. And you can continue to be the party of NO. And continue to gain NO seats in the government.

 

[Old Rocks]

So we should reward the same government that couldn't manage the housing market and could not take care of a hurricane disaster with making decisions about our healthcare.

Government was not competent to do anything before this, but they will be competent in making our healthcare decisions.

George aWol Bush is no longer running the government. You Conservatives are not ignoring disasters or being allowed to practice disaster capitalism any longer.

But keep talking like this. Since it is obvious from the eight years of the prior administration that you Conservatives are incapable of governing, you won't get a chance to in the near future. In the meantime, for we Liberals, there is much work to do. Sleep well at night, Conservative