Serious Questions for Fellow Liberals: Can you help me explain, without laughing?

[Syriusly]

M
2. Why do Liberals insist that nobody should have guns but the police. Then turn around and say they don't trust the police with guns and "having all the power." Which way is it? Should police have all the guns and power or not? Should nobody have guns at all? Then who should stop criminals with guns?
.

Why do you ask such stupid questions?

I am a liberal- i have never insisted that no one should have guns but the police. That is not the position of the Democratic Party- and it is not the position of most liberals- but you claim this is what we all feel- why are you such an idiot about these things?

I am a big supporter of police- a great example of that is with the Oregon stand off- when the police had to shoot a suspect after he tried to run down a police officer and then tried to pull a gun on officers.

 

[Syriusly]

3. Related: Why do Liberals demand that Govt regulate and control people's access to guns, but not to drugs.
.

"Liberals" who support marijuana legalization(not all liberals do) support regulated legalization in the same manner as alcohol is legalized.

Why do you want marijuana treated differently than alcohol?

Do you thinks guns should be totally unregulated?

 

[Jarhead]

My boyfriend cracks me up with the questions he has for Liberals he can't quite figure out. He reminds me of the boy who got kicked out of Sunday school, for interrupting the big lecture on "God creating the heavens and the earth and firmaments" to ask the teacher: Where was God standing when he did all of this???

Of the profound questions he has for Liberals that neither he nor I can get a straight answer on,
I think these are three of the funniest:

1. Why do Liberals demand that government "stay out of a woman's womb,"
then turn around and hand over their wallet and control of "every cell of their body" to federal govt to manage with the funding of health care and insurance mandates. WTFFF???.

Why do you ask such stupid questions?

I support a woman's right to control her own body- why do you believe that the government- essentially old white guys- should tell a woman what to do with her own body?

I don't even understand what you are trying to say in the second part of your statement.

what white old guy is telling you what you can do with your body?

Last I heard, it was an aging black guy that told you MUST purchase health insurance and take care of your body...it was an aging black women that set guidelines for what your children can eat while in school.

All I seem to recall is a few white old guys saying "do what you want with your body, but do not expect the government to insist on your neighbor paying for it"

You seem to have things a bit mixed up.

 

[Jarhead]

3. Related: Why do Liberals demand that Govt regulate and control people's access to guns, but not to drugs.
.

"Liberals" who support marijuana legalization(not all liberals do) support regulated legalization in the same manner as alcohol is legalized.

Why do you want marijuana treated differently than alcohol?

Do you thinks guns should be totally unregulated?

who is asking for guns to be completely unregulated? Do you have any idea what the debate is about? Do you have any idea why there is merit to the right side of the debate?

 

[Syriusly]

4. Why is it okay to Liberals to push "belief in homosexuality and gay marriage" on the public through govt but NOT the "belief in Christianity and celebrating Christmas."
.

I think maybe this question explains your essential problem.

Homosexuality is not a religion. Marriage is not a religion. Christianity is a religion.

I believe that schools should have programs to reduce bullying and violence- and those programs should address issues such as bullying kids because of their apparent sexual preference or religious belief.

I think it is just as wrong for a child to be bullied for being an openly Evangelical Christian as for being bullied for being an openly homosexual person.

But I don't think schools should be telling students to be homosexuals any more than they should be telling them to be Christians or Muslims or Jews.

 

[Syriusly]

My boyfriend cracks me up with the questions he has for Liberals he can't quite figure out. He reminds me of the boy who got kicked out of Sunday school, for interrupting the big lecture on "God creating the heavens and the earth and firmaments" to ask the teacher: Where was God standing when he did all of this???

Of the profound questions he has for Liberals that neither he nor I can get a straight answer on,
I think these are three of the funniest:

1. Why do Liberals demand that government "stay out of a woman's womb,"
then turn around and hand over their wallet and control of "every cell of their body" to federal govt to manage with the funding of health care and insurance mandates. WTFFF???.

Why do you ask such stupid questions?

I support a woman's right to control her own body- why do you believe that the government- essentially old white guys- should tell a woman what to do with her own body?

I don't even understand what you are trying to say in the second part of your statement.

what white old guy is telling you what you can do with your body?.

Since I myself am an 'old white guy'- nobody.

Old white guys like to legislate what women can do with their bodies- not what old white guys do with theirs.

 

[Jarhead]

My boyfriend cracks me up with the questions he has for Liberals he can't quite figure out. He reminds me of the boy who got kicked out of Sunday school, for interrupting the big lecture on "God creating the heavens and the earth and firmaments" to ask the teacher: Where was God standing when he did all of this???

Of the profound questions he has for Liberals that neither he nor I can get a straight answer on,
I think these are three of the funniest:

1. Why do Liberals demand that government "stay out of a woman's womb,"
then turn around and hand over their wallet and control of "every cell of their body" to federal govt to manage with the funding of health care and insurance mandates. WTFFF???.

Why do you ask such stupid questions?

I support a woman's right to control her own body- why do you believe that the government- essentially old white guys- should tell a woman what to do with her own body?

I don't even understand what you are trying to say in the second part of your statement.

what white old guy is telling you what you can do with your body?.

Since I myself am an 'old white guy'- nobody.

Old white guys like to legislate what women can do with their bodies- not what old white guys do with theirs.

really?

Who? Can you name a single white male legislator who is trying to tell women what they can do to their bodies? And if you can....can you demonstrate how it is a sentiment of the majority of the party?

 

[Syriusly]

3. Related: Why do Liberals demand that Govt regulate and control people's access to guns, but not to drugs.
.

"Liberals" who support marijuana legalization(not all liberals do) support regulated legalization in the same manner as alcohol is legalized.

Why do you want marijuana treated differently than alcohol?

Do you thinks guns should be totally unregulated?

who is asking for guns to be completely unregulated? Do you have any idea what the debate is about? Do you have any idea why there is merit to the right side of the debate?

I am responding to the stupid OP.

Related: Why do Liberals demand that Govt regulate and control people's access to guns, but not to drugs.

She is the one who wants to equate 'drug legalization' to gun ownership. I think most reasonable people would agree that some sort of gun regulation is appropriate- but disagree on to which degree.

She appears to think that any kind of 'drug' ownership is wrong- even if it is regulated.

 

[Jarhead]

3. Related: Why do Liberals demand that Govt regulate and control people's access to guns, but not to drugs.
.

"Liberals" who support marijuana legalization(not all liberals do) support regulated legalization in the same manner as alcohol is legalized.

Why do you want marijuana treated differently than alcohol?

Do you thinks guns should be totally unregulated?

who is asking for guns to be completely unregulated? Do you have any idea what the debate is about? Do you have any idea why there is merit to the right side of the debate?

I am responding to the stupid OP.

Related: Why do Liberals demand that Govt regulate and control people's access to guns, but not to drugs.

She is the one who wants to equate 'drug legalization' to gun ownership. I think most reasonable people would agree that some sort of gun regulation is appropriate- but disagree on to which degree.

She appears to think that any kind of 'drug' ownership is wrong- even if it is regulated.

I read the OP.

My question was directed to you when you asked if she believed guns should be totally unregulated. I saw nothing in the post that implied that.

And what is wrong with someone thinking all non prescribed drugs should be deemed illegal? I get both sides of the debate. I think pot is OK. But I get those that think otherwise....

I don't see it as ridiculous. I just disagree.

 

[Jarhead]

But I go back to my original question....

What elected legislator is pushing legislation that tells a woman what she can do with her body?

 

[Syriusly]

My boyfriend cracks me up with the questions he has for Liberals he can't quite figure out. He reminds me of the boy who got kicked out of Sunday school, for interrupting the big lecture on "God creating the heavens and the earth and firmaments" to ask the teacher: Where was God standing when he did all of this???

Of the profound questions he has for Liberals that neither he nor I can get a straight answer on,
I think these are three of the funniest:

1. Why do Liberals demand that government "stay out of a woman's womb,"
then turn around and hand over their wallet and control of "every cell of their body" to federal govt to manage with the funding of health care and insurance mandates. WTFFF???.

Why do you ask such stupid questions?

I support a woman's right to control her own body- why do you believe that the government- essentially old white guys- should tell a woman what to do with her own body?

I don't even understand what you are trying to say in the second part of your statement.

what white old guy is telling you what you can do with your body?.

Since I myself am an 'old white guy'- nobody.

Old white guys like to legislate what women can do with their bodies- not what old white guys do with theirs.

really?

Who? Can you name a single white male legislator who is trying to tell women what they can do to their bodies? And if you can....can you demonstrate how it is a sentiment of the majority of the party?

Funny- you never asked the OP to prove her claims that 'Liberals demand the government 'stay out of a woman's womb'- but you demand that I prove that
Abortion
Abortion | Congressman Mike Kelly
Abortion | Congressman Justin Amash
Iowa legislators propose making abortion murder
A group of Iowa legislators introduced a bill that would make providing an abortion a crime carrying a murder charge in the state.

HF 138 was introduced Wednesday, February 6, 2013 by a group of nine Republican Iowa representatives including lead sponsor, Representative Tom Shaw of Laurens. The bill’s co-sponsors are representatives Greg Heartsill, Dwayne Alons, Jason Schultz, Robert Bacon, Larry Sheets, Kevin Koester, Joel Fry and Sandy Salmon.

 

[Syriusly]

3. Related: Why do Liberals demand that Govt regulate and control people's access to guns, but not to drugs.
.

"Liberals" who support marijuana legalization(not all liberals do) support regulated legalization in the same manner as alcohol is legalized.

Why do you want marijuana treated differently than alcohol?

Do you thinks guns should be totally unregulated?

who is asking for guns to be completely unregulated? Do you have any idea what the debate is about? Do you have any idea why there is merit to the right side of the debate?

I am responding to the stupid OP.

Related: Why do Liberals demand that Govt regulate and control people's access to guns, but not to drugs.

She is the one who wants to equate 'drug legalization' to gun ownership. I think most reasonable people would agree that some sort of gun regulation is appropriate- but disagree on to which degree.

She appears to think that any kind of 'drug' ownership is wrong- even if it is regulated.

I read the OP.

My question was directed to you when you asked if she believed guns should be totally unregulated. I saw nothing in the post that implied that.

And what is wrong with someone thinking all non prescribed drugs should be deemed illegal? I get both sides of the debate. I think pot is OK. But I get those that think otherwise....

I don't see it as ridiculous. I just disagree.

Okay in answering your question:
who is asking for guns to be completely unregulated?

I have no idea- your question is unrelated to my post.

 

[Jarhead]

My boyfriend cracks me up with the questions he has for Liberals he can't quite figure out. He reminds me of the boy who got kicked out of Sunday school, for interrupting the big lecture on "God creating the heavens and the earth and firmaments" to ask the teacher: Where was God standing when he did all of this???

Of the profound questions he has for Liberals that neither he nor I can get a straight answer on,
I think these are three of the funniest:

1. Why do Liberals demand that government "stay out of a woman's womb,"
then turn around and hand over their wallet and control of "every cell of their body" to federal govt to manage with the funding of health care and insurance mandates. WTFFF???.

Why do you ask such stupid questions?

I support a woman's right to control her own body- why do you believe that the government- essentially old white guys- should tell a woman what to do with her own body?

I don't even understand what you are trying to say in the second part of your statement.

what white old guy is telling you what you can do with your body?.

Since I myself am an 'old white guy'- nobody.

Old white guys like to legislate what women can do with their bodies- not what old white guys do with theirs.

really?

Who? Can you name a single white male legislator who is trying to tell women what they can do to their bodies? And if you can....can you demonstrate how it is a sentiment of the majority of the party?

Funny- you never asked the OP to prove her claims that 'Liberals demand the government 'stay out of a woman's womb'- but you demand that I prove that
Abortion
Abortion | Congressman Mike Kelly
Abortion | Congressman Justin Amash
Iowa legislators propose making abortion murder
A group of Iowa legislators introduced a bill that would make providing an abortion a crime carrying a murder charge in the state.

HF 138 was introduced Wednesday, February 6, 2013 by a group of nine Republican Iowa representatives including lead sponsor, Representative Tom Shaw of Laurens. The bill’s co-sponsors are representatives Greg Heartsill, Dwayne Alons, Jason Schultz, Robert Bacon, Larry Sheets, Kevin Koester, Joel Fry and Sandy Salmon.

asking that one who believes that abortion is the killing of a human being NOT have to offer the service of an abortion is not telling a woman what she can or can not do with her body. It is telling the government that they can not force others to assist her to do with her body whatever she desires to do with it.

More importantly....the debate of abortion NEVER had anything to do with what a woman can or can not do with her body. It had to do with whether or not an abortion was the killing of a human being.

The fact that the subject of an abortion was in a woman's body was why supporters of abortion used "the womans body" as part of their position.....

But if humans laid eggs.....the debate of abortion would have been exactly as it should have been....whether or not an abortion was the killing of a human being.

So, I again ask....who is telling women what they can and cannot do with THEIR body?

Oh...and by the way....I support the womans right to abort if she feels it is in her best interest (within the first tri-mester)

 

[Syriusly]

Why do you ask such stupid questions?

I support a woman's right to control her own body- why do you believe that the government- essentially old white guys- should tell a woman what to do with her own body?

I don't even understand what you are trying to say in the second part of your statement.

what white old guy is telling you what you can do with your body?.

Since I myself am an 'old white guy'- nobody.

Old white guys like to legislate what women can do with their bodies- not what old white guys do with theirs.

really?

Who? Can you name a single white male legislator who is trying to tell women what they can do to their bodies? And if you can....can you demonstrate how it is a sentiment of the majority of the party?

Funny- you never asked the OP to prove her claims that 'Liberals demand the government 'stay out of a woman's womb'- but you demand that I prove that
Abortion
Abortion | Congressman Mike Kelly
Abortion | Congressman Justin Amash
Iowa legislators propose making abortion murder
A group of Iowa legislators introduced a bill that would make providing an abortion a crime carrying a murder charge in the state.

HF 138 was introduced Wednesday, February 6, 2013 by a group of nine Republican Iowa representatives including lead sponsor, Representative Tom Shaw of Laurens. The bill’s co-sponsors are representatives Greg Heartsill, Dwayne Alons, Jason Schultz, Robert Bacon, Larry Sheets, Kevin Koester, Joel Fry and Sandy Salmon.

asking that one who believes that abortion is the killing of a human being NOT have to offer the service of an abortion is not telling a woman what she can or can not do with her body. It is telling the government that they can not force others to assist her to do with her body whatever she desires to do with it.)

Do you actually think that makes any sense?

All of the people I listed would like to make it illegal for a woman to be able to chose to have an abortion- i.e. have the government- not the woman- control her own body.

I get that the 'right to life' people consider abortion to be murder- and would like to be able to jail women who have abortions.

However, legally abortion is not murder, and for those of us who do not consider abortion to be murder- the government telling a woman what she has to do with her body is wrong- and that is essence of the issue in the OP.

 

[Jarhead]

what white old guy is telling you what you can do with your body?.

Since I myself am an 'old white guy'- nobody.

Old white guys like to legislate what women can do with their bodies- not what old white guys do with theirs.

really?

Who? Can you name a single white male legislator who is trying to tell women what they can do to their bodies? And if you can....can you demonstrate how it is a sentiment of the majority of the party?

Funny- you never asked the OP to prove her claims that 'Liberals demand the government 'stay out of a woman's womb'- but you demand that I prove that
Abortion
Abortion | Congressman Mike Kelly
Abortion | Congressman Justin Amash
Iowa legislators propose making abortion murder
A group of Iowa legislators introduced a bill that would make providing an abortion a crime carrying a murder charge in the state.

HF 138 was introduced Wednesday, February 6, 2013 by a group of nine Republican Iowa representatives including lead sponsor, Representative Tom Shaw of Laurens. The bill’s co-sponsors are representatives Greg Heartsill, Dwayne Alons, Jason Schultz, Robert Bacon, Larry Sheets, Kevin Koester, Joel Fry and Sandy Salmon.

asking that one who believes that abortion is the killing of a human being NOT have to offer the service of an abortion is not telling a woman what she can or can not do with her body. It is telling the government that they can not force others to assist her to do with her body whatever she desires to do with it.)

Do you actually think that makes any sense?

All of the people I listed would like to make it illegal for a woman to be able to chose to have an abortion- i.e. have the government- not the woman- control her own body.

I get that the 'right to life' people consider abortion to be murder- and would like to be able to jail women who have abortions.

However, legally abortion is not murder, and for those of us who do not consider abortion to be murder- the government telling a woman what she has to do with her body is wrong- and that is essence of the issue in the OP.

sorry. You are all over the map. No patience for it. Love that line about "sending them to jail".....speaks volumes about you, your posts and where you get your information from.

No interest.

Sorry.

 

[Syriusly]

Since I myself am an 'old white guy'- nobody.

Old white guys like to legislate what women can do with their bodies- not what old white guys do with theirs.

really?

Who? Can you name a single white male legislator who is trying to tell women what they can do to their bodies? And if you can....can you demonstrate how it is a sentiment of the majority of the party?

Funny- you never asked the OP to prove her claims that 'Liberals demand the government 'stay out of a woman's womb'- but you demand that I prove that
Abortion
Abortion | Congressman Mike Kelly
Abortion | Congressman Justin Amash
Iowa legislators propose making abortion murder
A group of Iowa legislators introduced a bill that would make providing an abortion a crime carrying a murder charge in the state.

HF 138 was introduced Wednesday, February 6, 2013 by a group of nine Republican Iowa representatives including lead sponsor, Representative Tom Shaw of Laurens. The bill’s co-sponsors are representatives Greg Heartsill, Dwayne Alons, Jason Schultz, Robert Bacon, Larry Sheets, Kevin Koester, Joel Fry and Sandy Salmon.

asking that one who believes that abortion is the killing of a human being NOT have to offer the service of an abortion is not telling a woman what she can or can not do with her body. It is telling the government that they can not force others to assist her to do with her body whatever she desires to do with it.)

Do you actually think that makes any sense?

All of the people I listed would like to make it illegal for a woman to be able to chose to have an abortion- i.e. have the government- not the woman- control her own body.

I get that the 'right to life' people consider abortion to be murder- and would like to be able to jail women who have abortions.

However, legally abortion is not murder, and for those of us who do not consider abortion to be murder- the government telling a woman what she has to do with her body is wrong- and that is essence of the issue in the OP.

sorry. You are all over the map. No patience for it. Love that line about "sending them to jail".....speaks volumes about you, your posts and where you get your information from.

No interest.

Sorry.

So you don't think murderers should be sent to jail?

 

[emilynghiem]

Why do you ask such stupid questions?

I support a woman's right to control her own body- why do you believe that the government- essentially old white guys- should tell a woman what to do with her own body?

I don't even understand what you are trying to say in the second part of your statement.

what white old guy is telling you what you can do with your body?.

Since I myself am an 'old white guy'- nobody.

Old white guys like to legislate what women can do with their bodies- not what old white guys do with theirs.

really?

Who? Can you name a single white male legislator who is trying to tell women what they can do to their bodies? And if you can....can you demonstrate how it is a sentiment of the majority of the party?

Funny- you never asked the OP to prove her claims that 'Liberals demand the government 'stay out of a woman's womb'- but you demand that I prove that
Abortion
Abortion | Congressman Mike Kelly
Abortion | Congressman Justin Amash
Iowa legislators propose making abortion murder
A group of Iowa legislators introduced a bill that would make providing an abortion a crime carrying a murder charge in the state.

HF 138 was introduced Wednesday, February 6, 2013 by a group of nine Republican Iowa representatives including lead sponsor, Representative Tom Shaw of Laurens. The bill’s co-sponsors are representatives Greg Heartsill, Dwayne Alons, Jason Schultz, Robert Bacon, Larry Sheets, Kevin Koester, Joel Fry and Sandy Salmon.

asking that one who believes that abortion is the killing of a human being NOT have to offer the service of an abortion is not telling a woman what she can or can not do with her body. It is telling the government that they can not force others to assist her to do with her body whatever she desires to do with it.

More importantly....the debate of abortion NEVER had anything to do with what a woman can or can not do with her body. It had to do with whether or not an abortion was the killing of a human being.

The fact that the subject of an abortion was in a woman's body was why supporters of abortion used "the womans body" as part of their position.....

But if humans laid eggs.....the debate of abortion would have been exactly as it should have been....whether or not an abortion was the killing of a human being.

So, I again ask....who is telling women what they can and cannot do with THEIR body?

Oh...and by the way....I support the womans right to abort if she feels it is in her best interest (within the first tri-mester)

Dear Jarhead and Syriusly
Thank you for joining in and sharing honestly in this discussion.
These separate issues are ALL important
1. the issue of the actual abortion itself, medically scientifically and/or spiritually
2. the funding and regulation through govt (that involves the public) vs privately
3. the ways laws are written and enforced, and if we can write laws that hold both
MEN and WOMEN equally responsible for the decision to have sex that led to pregnancy
(instead of laws "after the fact" affecting women more than men even though both parties
who caused the pregnancy should ideally be held equally responsible for the consequences).

Part of the reason in the case of Roe V Wade and striking down the law was the due process issue/"substantive due process" issue with the woman. That if the woman is going to face criminal prosecution, and has to defend herself from punishment, this added complications to the process AFTER THE FACT. So like Jarhead said, the arguments haven't focused on the abortion itself but brings up legal and social complications after the fact. Because the woman is going to have to defend herself legally through the govt system -- but not the man who was half responsible for the pregnancy -- this has always been problematic, in addition to the issue of abortion itself.

All these points should not compete with each other for importance.
I believe we should address each one in full in order to resolve the entire problem successfully.
Otherwise, with several issues competing for attention, this ends up deadlocking over side conflicts instead of addressing each issue and resolving the whole thing as best we can.

If people can't agree, then instead of bullying or bulldozing one person's way over another, why not remove the point of conflict from the table and address the issues people DO agree to focus on first. Solve as much as we can, untangle the complications, taking them one by one, and address the harder issues as we go. There are so many issues combined together, it would take intensive/comprehensive teamork to spell them all out and resolve each one in turn. When are we going to get smart as a nation, and hold conferences to get this process organized so we can solve all these different facets instead of campaigning to oust, overrule or obstruct the opposition.

What's wrong with listening to the obejctions, and finding ways to resolve them so we can focus on prevention and solutions that people agree are effective and don't cause more conflict.