Sending Kids to jail for profit

[catzmeow]

Please restrict your attractions to little boys to the other tabs on your monitor. We don't need to hear about them.

Sweetie, you're the one who keeps tabs on everything I post here with an attentiveness that verges on stalking, and then goes to the trouble of misrepresenting all of our discussions, blowing them up into something high profile and emotional.

That's kind of sweet, now that I think about it. I've always wanted my own personal stalker.

 

[Agnapostate]

Sweetie, you're the one who keeps tabs on everything I post here with an attentiveness that verges on stalking, and then goes to the trouble of misrepresenting all of our discussions, blowing them up into something high profile and emotional.

That's kind of sweet, now that I think about it. I've always wanted my own personal stalker.

Not quite, scat. I simply remember the thread that you started specifically addressing me, for instance. I simply remember the other times you've entered threads that I've posted in first to initiate your typical incoherent ramblings and lies. So please, don't flatter yourself. The only stalker that you're likely to have is Xavier Von Erck, given your now admitted attractions to little boys.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Editorial: Judges Sentenced | Philadelphia Inquirer | 01/28/2009


Here is a prime example why prisons and jails should NOT be privatized.

There has always been corruption. Here's an article that presents both sides to the issue of privatization of prisons.

"Those who oppose prison privatization make the case that the industry has the incentive and the wherewithal to extend the amount of time convicts will remain in prison, and that this presents a threat to justice. The industry, they say, can extend sentences in two ways. First, it has thrown its influence, through lobbying and campaign contributions, behind “tougher” laws such as "three strikes", mandatory minimum sentencing, and "truth in sentencing" that increase the duration of sentences. The conservative American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) has been extremely active in advocating truth-in-sentencing and three strikes policies throughout the United States. This organization is heavily funded by the corrections industry, and indeed ALEC's Criminal Justice Task Force is co-chaired by Brad Wiggins, a former director of business development for the Corrections Corporation of America (Bender, 2000). The strength of these kinds of political influence, opponents fear, will only increase as the industry grows. As one observer notes, corrections corporations have "paid handsomely to play the public policy game, and will likely do so again"(O'Connell, 2002)."
http://government.cce.cornell.edu/doc/html/PrisonsPrivatization.htm

Bottom line. If private prisons are cheaper to run, then we will continue to have more of them. The government is broke, (st least in my state, it is).

 

[catzmeow]

Wrong, as the remainder of that post clearly indicated. Since you apparently lack the ability to differentiate between VisionQuest and WWASP, I'll assume my job here is done.

You are dragging WWASP into a thread about generalized privatization. The problem is that the WWASP schools never contracted with state juvenile authorities on any widespread basis. Thus, they are IRRELEVANT in a discussion of privatization of juvenile facilities.

In the OP, the program in question was a privatized DETENTION CENTER. I.e., a private entity operated, for the county, the primary detention center. Do you know the difference between one of the WWASP schools and a detention center? I'm going to assume you don't, since you are throwing WWASP into this discussion like a rotten orange into an apple orchard.

In general, there are three types of residential facilities that are utilized to provide residential incarceration for juveniles:

A detention center is a short-term holding facility that is used for holding juveniles for no longer than 30 days. Juveniles may be held pending a court hearing, or for a short-term punitive sentence (i.e., for violation of probation, etc.).

A residential placement or residential alternative to incarceration is a longer term facility that generally holds juveniles for periods ranging from 30 days to 6 months. These facilities may be publicly or privately run, and are generally less secure than the next level of incarceration. They may be run as a dormitory-style program, or as a group home, and may offer specialized treatment. Some boot camp programs also fall into this category.

A secure juvenile facility is just that...a juvenile jail. Sentences in these facilities can range from 6 months to several years, depending upon the severity of the offense and the age of the offender. They operate just like a jail.

Privatized facilities are generally used to fill the gap between detention and secure incarceration, and there is a huge need for these types of programs. Or, private contractors are contracted to run a publicly constructed detention center for cost-savings. In these cases, these private contractors are often more intensively monitored than the equivalent public employees might be.

As stated, the WWASPs were never used on any meaningful level as a juvenile alternative to incarceration. Thus, they are irrelevant to this discussion. WWASP programs catered almost exclusively to high-income families with "ungovernable" children who weren't involved in the court system to any meaningful degree. They advertised heavily in niche publications catering to high-income families, and "specialized" in dealing with "troubled" or difficult teens.

I'm actually quite familiar with the Cross Creek facilities as I did bi-annual training for their staff on youth violence and gang issues.

And, this is why I'm quite certain you are INTIMATELY acquainted with at least one of these facilities. You definitely fit the profile.

Hope that helps you to understand.

 

[Sky Dancer]

“The information the private prison industry hopes you’ll never see!”

Prison Privatization

 

[catzmeow]

Bottom line. If private prisons are cheaper to run, then we will continue to have more of them. The government is broke, (st least in my state, it is).

As stated above, the fact that these facilities often don't have associated construction costs means that more effort can be spent on programming. Thus, they can be superior in terms of working with juvenile offenders. They just need to be closely monitored AS ALL PROGRAMS that deal with juveniles should be.

 

[Agnapostate]

Your Google searches aren't helping, since you're obviously unaware of collaboration between WWASP (and similar entities) and the relevant juvenile authorities, which contrary to your false assertions, did occur. This ignorance is not acceptable for an individual who pretends to have knowledge on this matter. But then again, it coincides well with your general ignorance of juvenile crime, and indeed, of life in general.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Private prisons don't seem any more 'superior' than public ones.

This looks like a book worth reading: Merchandizing Prisoners
Who Really Pays for Prison Privatization?

"Although sold to the public as a cost-saving measure, the privatization of prisons has not only led to significant changes in policy making and the management of prisons, but has also generated widespread concern that incarceration has become a profit-making industry. That, in turn, strengthens calls for policies on mandatory minimum sentencing that keep the prison industry growing. After all, in order to be successful business enterprises, prisons will need occupants.

What compels state policy makers to privatize their prisons? The conventional response by political and appointed policy leaders has consistently and unequivocally been that they wish to save costs. But the truth may be otherwise. Eugene Price illustrates that fiscal issues are often trumped by political factors when it comes to the decision to privatize. He examines the potential reasons why a state might choose to privatize its prisons, and considers financial and political aspects in depth. Ultimately he concludes that the desire to save costs is not the primary reason for state prison privatization. Rather, the more plausible explanations revolve around political and ideological factors such as the party of the governor and the overall political and ideological culture of the state. This work sets the record straight about the decision to privatize state prisons, revealing the political bias that often drives these policy choices."
http://www.greenwood.com/catalog/C8738.aspx

 

[Agnapostate]

They aren't. scatmeow's simply ignorant of the nature of private facilities, particularly behavioral modification abilities, which have had numerous state referrals in the past.

 

[catzmeow]

“The information the private prison industry hopes you’ll never see!”

Prison Privatization

Source for this article: PSCOA Home - aka the Pennsylvania Correctional Officers Association...

I can't imagine that correctional officers would be biased on this topic.

 

[Agnapostate]

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.

Then again, that might not coincide so well with a certain someone's "professional" life.

 

[catzmeow]

Your Google searches aren't helping, since you're obviously unaware of collaboration between WWASP (and similar entities) and the relevant juvenile authorities, which contrary to your false assertions, did occur. This ignorance is not acceptable for an individual who pretends to have knowledge on this matter. But then again, it coincides well with your general ignorance of juvenile crime, and indeed, of life in general.

Dude, I don't have to google search this topic. My post came from my personal knowledge of the subject, including my firsthand exposure to the Cross Creek facilities and staff.

Please provide evidence of the number of state-sentenced youth in custody placed in these programs to substantiate your claim.

 

[catzmeow]

Private prisons don't seem any more 'superior' than public ones.

How many have you been in?

 

[Agnapostate]

Dude, I don't have to google search this topic. My post came from my personal knowledge of the subject, including my firsthand exposure to the Cross Creek facilities and staff.

Please provide evidence of the number of state-sentenced youth in custody placed in these programs to substantiate your claim.

Now, now, scat, you're not performing at your best. Only one lie in the above post?

I'll need to find "nonpartisan" data to satisfy the Queen of the Litterbox, apparently, because my information on state-sentenced youth within the BMF industry is apparently "biased."

 

[catzmeow]

Jalu: Let me give you a basis of comparison.

FOr juvenile offenders in our state, there were several sentencing options:

• The state youth authority's secure facility (a jail for juvenile offenders)
• The Glen Mills School
• Vision Quest (in Arizona)

In 1999, the last year I personally did any cost comparisons, my state's secure facility cost $60,000 per inmate, per year. The Glen Mills School and Vision Quest program cost $40k per inmate, per year.

If you were a parent, where would YOU want your child to be sentenced? Take a second and actually LOOK at the programs. I think you'll be surprised at how much more economical they are, and what the dollars actually buy.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Private prisons don't seem any more 'superior' than public ones.

How many have you been in?

None of your business. Personal question irrrelevant to the topic. The prison industry is big business.

"The United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world at 737 persons imprisoned per 100,000 (as of 2005).[16] A report released Feb. 28, 2008 indicates that in the United States more than 1 in 100 adults is now confined in an American jail or prison.[9] The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_the_United_States

Staggers the mind.

 

[catzmeow]

I'll need to find "nonpartisan" data to satisfy the Queen of the Litterbox, apparently, because my information on state-sentenced youth within the BMF industry is apparently "biased."

How about ANY data that substantiates your claim about juvenile offenders being sentenced to the WWASP schools? Some numbers and states using them as a sentencing alternative would be nice.

 

[catzmeow]

Private prisons don't seem any more 'superior' than public ones.

How many have you been in?

None of your business.

I wasn't suggesting that you were a juvenile offender. I was asking if you've seen any of these facilities at firsthand, aside from reading about them online.

For the record, I've been in dozens. I've done staff training, served on the board of the detention center, and worked inside their facilities. You're drawing a conclusion based upon what knowledge?

 

[Agnapostate]

How about ANY data that substantiates your claim about juvenile offenders being sentenced to the WWASP schools? Some numbers and states using them as a sentencing alternative would be nice.

Why are you being so demanding? Not getting any action from those Southern cousins?

 

[catzmeow]

How about ANY data that substantiates your claim about juvenile offenders being sentenced to the WWASP schools? Some numbers and states using them as a sentencing alternative would be nice.

Why are you being so demanding? Not getting any action from those Southern cousins?

Dude, it's patently obvious to even a small retarded child that you've had your ass handed to you on this thread. But, I'd like to see you prove your case, if you have one.