Seems Russia was behind both Texas and California efforts to secede

[flacaltenn]

MOFact. show of hands. Any morons believe that the USA did NOT pepper the Soviet Union when they saw the weaknesses with SIMILAR "break-up" agi-prop and support Gorby in the various coupes that broke up the Kremlin/Sjoviet Union?? RDean?????

Sobering new is --- Putin sees that SAME WEAKNESS NOW in the USA. Good chance a proper psych-op/agi-prop campaign could push US to a similar break-up.... He's correct... Won't be his fault -- but he sure wants to be in on the "fun"......

Trump said this soon after the election about "Russian involvement in our politics". He REPEATEDLY asked -- "Do you think OUR HANDS are clean? They are not"........ Should have been a clue to what I'm telling you here.

"Any morons believe that the USA did NOT pepper the Soviet Union when they saw the weaknesses with SIMILAR "break-up" agi-prop and support Gorby in the various coupes that broke up the Kremlin/Sjoviet Union?? RDean????? "

Of course not, people just realize which side we are on. Funny how the nationalists are suddenly at the back of this line... ironic, when you think about it...

Just told you it's OUR POLITICAL tribal wars that Putin is poking at. He's not CAUSED them. He's exploiting them. And you -- being a "party animal" turn around and demonstrate how it's OUR fault -- and not his by being a "tribal warrior"..

Don't think you get it yet. Because those that do -- are IMMUNE from anything that looks like propaganda ads on Facebook. It's only the die-hard 2 party faithful who are susceptible to it. That's why there's 4 current threads discussing Jarrod Kushner's voter's registration as a women in NY State --- rather than any of the things of substance. Carry on warriors. Carry on...

Death match of OUR making and the 2 dying parties want to blame it on the Ruskies.

 

[flacaltenn]

I don't know anything about that but I do know that RT loves hyping to death stories about cops shooting black people.

Plays well in Petrograd and Moscow. Has the added benefit of pouring gas on OUR fires. Russia is only exploiting our own "home grown" weaknesses. Like WE DID theirs.

Their's was largely Chernobyl and other lies. And highlighting how much better the Communist Party apparachiks lived than most every other Russian.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I don't know anything about that but I do know that RT loves hyping to death stories about cops shooting black people.

Yep! And it appears they do this precisely to cause chaos. Works pretty well, eh? We both know about it. How do we know about it? It works.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

MOFact. show of hands. Any morons believe that the USA did NOT pepper the Soviet Union when they saw the weaknesses with SIMILAR "break-up" agi-prop and support Gorby in the various coupes that broke up the Kremlin/Sjoviet Union?? RDean?????

Sobering new is --- Putin sees that SAME WEAKNESS NOW in the USA. Good chance a proper psych-op/agi-prop campaign could push US to a similar break-up.... He's correct... Won't be his fault -- but he sure wants to be in on the "fun"......

Trump said this soon after the election about "Russian involvement in our politics". He REPEATEDLY asked -- "Do you think OUR HANDS are clean? They are not"........ Should have been a clue to what I'm telling you here.

"Any morons believe that the USA did NOT pepper the Soviet Union when they saw the weaknesses with SIMILAR "break-up" agi-prop and support Gorby in the various coupes that broke up the Kremlin/Sjoviet Union?? RDean????? "

Of course not, people just realize which side we are on. Funny how the nationalists are suddenly at the back of this line... ironic, when you think about it...

Just told you it's OUR POLITICAL tribal wars that Putin is poking at. He's not CAUSED them. He's exploiting them. And you -- being a "party animal" turn around and demonstrate how it's OUR fault -- and not his by being a "tribal warrior"..

Don't think you get it yet. Because those that do -- are IMMUNE from anything that looks like propaganda ads on Facebook. It's only the die-hard 2 party faithful who are susceptible to it. That's why there's 4 current threads discussing Jarrod Kushner's voter's registration as a women in NY State --- rather than any of the things of substance. Carry on warriors. Carry on...

Death match of OUR making and the 2 dying parties want to blame it on the Ruskies.

"He's exploiting them."

Yes, agreed. My interest in Trump's involvement is not "tribal", that's just you dressing up the charlatan's tactic of "branding" with a surrounding of word salad. What happened here matters. I don't claim to know the truth of it all. But it does matter, and for you to characterize this as a product of exploitation of our divisions is absolutely correct, but you would choose to blame the "tribal warriors" for this, but not the people who did the deed. I find that to be dangerous thinking. We are on the same side, here. We need to act like it.

 

[flacaltenn]

MOFact. show of hands. Any morons believe that the USA did NOT pepper the Soviet Union when they saw the weaknesses with SIMILAR "break-up" agi-prop and support Gorby in the various coupes that broke up the Kremlin/Sjoviet Union?? RDean?????

Sobering new is --- Putin sees that SAME WEAKNESS NOW in the USA. Good chance a proper psych-op/agi-prop campaign could push US to a similar break-up.... He's correct... Won't be his fault -- but he sure wants to be in on the "fun"......

Trump said this soon after the election about "Russian involvement in our politics". He REPEATEDLY asked -- "Do you think OUR HANDS are clean? They are not"........ Should have been a clue to what I'm telling you here.

"Any morons believe that the USA did NOT pepper the Soviet Union when they saw the weaknesses with SIMILAR "break-up" agi-prop and support Gorby in the various coupes that broke up the Kremlin/Sjoviet Union?? RDean????? "

Of course not, people just realize which side we are on. Funny how the nationalists are suddenly at the back of this line... ironic, when you think about it...

Just told you it's OUR POLITICAL tribal wars that Putin is poking at. He's not CAUSED them. He's exploiting them. And you -- being a "party animal" turn around and demonstrate how it's OUR fault -- and not his by being a "tribal warrior"..

Don't think you get it yet. Because those that do -- are IMMUNE from anything that looks like propaganda ads on Facebook. It's only the die-hard 2 party faithful who are susceptible to it. That's why there's 4 current threads discussing Jarrod Kushner's voter's registration as a women in NY State --- rather than any of the things of substance. Carry on warriors. Carry on...

Death match of OUR making and the 2 dying parties want to blame it on the Ruskies.

"He's exploiting them."

Yes, agreed. My interest in Trump's involvement is not "tribal", that's just you dressing up the charlatan's tactic of "branding" with a surrounding of word salad. What happened here matters. I don't claim to know the truth of it all. But it does matter, and for you to characterize this as a product of exploitation of our divisions is absolutely correct, but you would choose to blame the "tribal warriors" for this, but not the people who did the deed. I find that to be dangerous thinking. We are on the same side, here. We need to act like it.

I only commented on it because you came blazing into the convo blaming nationalists and your opposites.

I'm thrilled that you get it. But that 1st post of yours wasn't totally convincing that you could put your partisanship aside long enough to explain it..

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

MOFact. show of hands. Any morons believe that the USA did NOT pepper the Soviet Union when they saw the weaknesses with SIMILAR "break-up" agi-prop and support Gorby in the various coupes that broke up the Kremlin/Sjoviet Union?? RDean?????

Sobering new is --- Putin sees that SAME WEAKNESS NOW in the USA. Good chance a proper psych-op/agi-prop campaign could push US to a similar break-up.... He's correct... Won't be his fault -- but he sure wants to be in on the "fun"......

Trump said this soon after the election about "Russian involvement in our politics". He REPEATEDLY asked -- "Do you think OUR HANDS are clean? They are not"........ Should have been a clue to what I'm telling you here.

"Any morons believe that the USA did NOT pepper the Soviet Union when they saw the weaknesses with SIMILAR "break-up" agi-prop and support Gorby in the various coupes that broke up the Kremlin/Sjoviet Union?? RDean????? "

Of course not, people just realize which side we are on. Funny how the nationalists are suddenly at the back of this line... ironic, when you think about it...

Just told you it's OUR POLITICAL tribal wars that Putin is poking at. He's not CAUSED them. He's exploiting them. And you -- being a "party animal" turn around and demonstrate how it's OUR fault -- and not his by being a "tribal warrior"..

Don't think you get it yet. Because those that do -- are IMMUNE from anything that looks like propaganda ads on Facebook. It's only the die-hard 2 party faithful who are susceptible to it. That's why there's 4 current threads discussing Jarrod Kushner's voter's registration as a women in NY State --- rather than any of the things of substance. Carry on warriors. Carry on...

Death match of OUR making and the 2 dying parties want to blame it on the Ruskies.

"He's exploiting them."

Yes, agreed. My interest in Trump's involvement is not "tribal", that's just you dressing up the charlatan's tactic of "branding" with a surrounding of word salad. What happened here matters. I don't claim to know the truth of it all. But it does matter, and for you to characterize this as a product of exploitation of our divisions is absolutely correct, but you would choose to blame the "tribal warriors" for this, but not the people who did the deed. I find that to be dangerous thinking. We are on the same side, here. We need to act like it.

I only commented on it because you came blazing into the convo blaming nationalists and your opposites.

I'm thrilled that you get it. But that 1st post of yours wasn't totally convincing that you could put your partisanship aside long enough to explain it..

"blaming nationalists"

Absolutely, otherwise known as giving them credit. Do we blame them or credit them for Brexit? What is the difference?

And i believe these nationalist forces can weaken our international institutions. What about that is controversial? It seems that is their goal... am I shaming them to give them credit for achieving their goals?

 

[flacaltenn]

MOFact. show of hands. Any morons believe that the USA did NOT pepper the Soviet Union when they saw the weaknesses with SIMILAR "break-up" agi-prop and support Gorby in the various coupes that broke up the Kremlin/Sjoviet Union?? RDean?????

Sobering new is --- Putin sees that SAME WEAKNESS NOW in the USA. Good chance a proper psych-op/agi-prop campaign could push US to a similar break-up.... He's correct... Won't be his fault -- but he sure wants to be in on the "fun"......

Trump said this soon after the election about "Russian involvement in our politics". He REPEATEDLY asked -- "Do you think OUR HANDS are clean? They are not"........ Should have been a clue to what I'm telling you here.

"Any morons believe that the USA did NOT pepper the Soviet Union when they saw the weaknesses with SIMILAR "break-up" agi-prop and support Gorby in the various coupes that broke up the Kremlin/Sjoviet Union?? RDean????? "

Of course not, people just realize which side we are on. Funny how the nationalists are suddenly at the back of this line... ironic, when you think about it...

Just told you it's OUR POLITICAL tribal wars that Putin is poking at. He's not CAUSED them. He's exploiting them. And you -- being a "party animal" turn around and demonstrate how it's OUR fault -- and not his by being a "tribal warrior"..

Don't think you get it yet. Because those that do -- are IMMUNE from anything that looks like propaganda ads on Facebook. It's only the die-hard 2 party faithful who are susceptible to it. That's why there's 4 current threads discussing Jarrod Kushner's voter's registration as a women in NY State --- rather than any of the things of substance. Carry on warriors. Carry on...

Death match of OUR making and the 2 dying parties want to blame it on the Ruskies.

"He's exploiting them."

Yes, agreed. My interest in Trump's involvement is not "tribal", that's just you dressing up the charlatan's tactic of "branding" with a surrounding of word salad. What happened here matters. I don't claim to know the truth of it all. But it does matter, and for you to characterize this as a product of exploitation of our divisions is absolutely correct, but you would choose to blame the "tribal warriors" for this, but not the people who did the deed. I find that to be dangerous thinking. We are on the same side, here. We need to act like it.

I only commented on it because you came blazing into the convo blaming nationalists and your opposites.

I'm thrilled that you get it. But that 1st post of yours wasn't totally convincing that you could put your partisanship aside long enough to explain it..

"blaming nationalists"

Absolutely, otherwise known as giving them credit. Do we blame them or credit them for Brexit? What is the difference?

And i believe these nationalist forces can weaken our international institutions. What about that is controversial? It seems that is their goal... am I shaming them to give them credit for achieving their goals?

OK. But I think our biggest divisions are just based on winning and obtaining power for 2 inept corrupt parties that need to die. That's what elections are all about now. It's not about competence or ideas or solutions. Just WINNING. And the kind of winning that's going on in the tribal wars is killing us all...

Not "nationalist" forces at work. The biggest nationalist argument right now is loving your country or not. Or being for or against a simple act of unity in respecting the Flag and the National Anthem.

If THAT's nationalism --- then it really IS A BIG problem.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"Any morons believe that the USA did NOT pepper the Soviet Union when they saw the weaknesses with SIMILAR "break-up" agi-prop and support Gorby in the various coupes that broke up the Kremlin/Sjoviet Union?? RDean????? "

Of course not, people just realize which side we are on. Funny how the nationalists are suddenly at the back of this line... ironic, when you think about it...

Just told you it's OUR POLITICAL tribal wars that Putin is poking at. He's not CAUSED them. He's exploiting them. And you -- being a "party animal" turn around and demonstrate how it's OUR fault -- and not his by being a "tribal warrior"..

Don't think you get it yet. Because those that do -- are IMMUNE from anything that looks like propaganda ads on Facebook. It's only the die-hard 2 party faithful who are susceptible to it. That's why there's 4 current threads discussing Jarrod Kushner's voter's registration as a women in NY State --- rather than any of the things of substance. Carry on warriors. Carry on...

Death match of OUR making and the 2 dying parties want to blame it on the Ruskies.

"He's exploiting them."

Yes, agreed. My interest in Trump's involvement is not "tribal", that's just you dressing up the charlatan's tactic of "branding" with a surrounding of word salad. What happened here matters. I don't claim to know the truth of it all. But it does matter, and for you to characterize this as a product of exploitation of our divisions is absolutely correct, but you would choose to blame the "tribal warriors" for this, but not the people who did the deed. I find that to be dangerous thinking. We are on the same side, here. We need to act like it.

I only commented on it because you came blazing into the convo blaming nationalists and your opposites.

I'm thrilled that you get it. But that 1st post of yours wasn't totally convincing that you could put your partisanship aside long enough to explain it..

"blaming nationalists"

Absolutely, otherwise known as giving them credit. Do we blame them or credit them for Brexit? What is the difference?

And i believe these nationalist forces can weaken our international institutions. What about that is controversial? It seems that is their goal... am I shaming them to give them credit for achieving their goals?

OK. But I think our biggest divisions are just based on winning and obtaining power for 2 inept corrupt parties that need to die. That's what elections are all about now. It's not about competence or ideas or solutions. Just WINNING. And the kind of winning that's going on in the tribal wars is killing us all...

Not "nationalist" forces at work. The biggest nationalist argument right now is loving your country or not. Or being for or against a simple act of unity in respecting the Flag and the National Anthem.

If THAT's nationalism --- then it really IS A BIG problem.

" obtaining power for 2 inept corrupt parties that need to die."

You're preaching to the choir, brother. We need publicly funded elections.

"Not "nationalist" forces at work. "


How can you even say that? Absolutely, nationalist forces were at work in the Brexit, just as they are in criticism of the UN, NATO, immigration, etc. etc. Again, that doesn't seem controversial. The nationalists will freely offer up these things, it's not a secret. It's part of their agenda. Putin knows this.

 

[impuretrash]

MOFact. show of hands. Any morons believe that the USA did NOT pepper the Soviet Union when they saw the weaknesses with SIMILAR "break-up" agi-prop and support Gorby in the various coupes that broke up the Kremlin/Sjoviet Union?? RDean?????

Sobering new is --- Putin sees that SAME WEAKNESS NOW in the USA. Good chance a proper psych-op/agi-prop campaign could push US to a similar break-up.... He's correct... Won't be his fault -- but he sure wants to be in on the "fun"......

Trump said this soon after the election about "Russian involvement in our politics". He REPEATEDLY asked -- "Do you think OUR HANDS are clean? They are not"........ Should have been a clue to what I'm telling you here.

"Any morons believe that the USA did NOT pepper the Soviet Union when they saw the weaknesses with SIMILAR "break-up" agi-prop and support Gorby in the various coupes that broke up the Kremlin/Sjoviet Union?? RDean????? "

Of course not, people just realize which side we are on. Funny how the nationalists are suddenly at the back of this line... ironic, when you think about it...

Just told you it's OUR POLITICAL tribal wars that Putin is poking at. He's not CAUSED them. He's exploiting them. And you -- being a "party animal" turn around and demonstrate how it's OUR fault -- and not his by being a "tribal warrior"..

Don't think you get it yet. Because those that do -- are IMMUNE from anything that looks like propaganda ads on Facebook. It's only the die-hard 2 party faithful who are susceptible to it. That's why there's 4 current threads discussing Jarrod Kushner's voter's registration as a women in NY State --- rather than any of the things of substance. Carry on warriors. Carry on...

Death match of OUR making and the 2 dying parties want to blame it on the Ruskies.

"He's exploiting them."

Yes, agreed. My interest in Trump's involvement is not "tribal", that's just you dressing up the charlatan's tactic of "branding" with a surrounding of word salad. What happened here matters. I don't claim to know the truth of it all. But it does matter, and for you to characterize this as a product of exploitation of our divisions is absolutely correct, but you would choose to blame the "tribal warriors" for this, but not the people who did the deed. I find that to be dangerous thinking. We are on the same side, here. We need to act like it.

I only commented on it because you came blazing into the convo blaming nationalists and your opposites.

I'm thrilled that you get it. But that 1st post of yours wasn't totally convincing that you could put your partisanship aside long enough to explain it..

"blaming nationalists"

Absolutely, otherwise known as giving them credit. Do we blame them or credit them for Brexit? What is the difference?

And i believe these nationalist forces can weaken our international institutions. What about that is controversial? It seems that is their goal... am I shaming them to give them credit for achieving their goals?

Your and flac's rhetorical flourishes are damn near impenetrable. Is this how you talk in real world face to face conversation?

 

[flacaltenn]

Just told you it's OUR POLITICAL tribal wars that Putin is poking at. He's not CAUSED them. He's exploiting them. And you -- being a "party animal" turn around and demonstrate how it's OUR fault -- and not his by being a "tribal warrior"..

Don't think you get it yet. Because those that do -- are IMMUNE from anything that looks like propaganda ads on Facebook. It's only the die-hard 2 party faithful who are susceptible to it. That's why there's 4 current threads discussing Jarrod Kushner's voter's registration as a women in NY State --- rather than any of the things of substance. Carry on warriors. Carry on...

Death match of OUR making and the 2 dying parties want to blame it on the Ruskies.

"He's exploiting them."

Yes, agreed. My interest in Trump's involvement is not "tribal", that's just you dressing up the charlatan's tactic of "branding" with a surrounding of word salad. What happened here matters. I don't claim to know the truth of it all. But it does matter, and for you to characterize this as a product of exploitation of our divisions is absolutely correct, but you would choose to blame the "tribal warriors" for this, but not the people who did the deed. I find that to be dangerous thinking. We are on the same side, here. We need to act like it.

I only commented on it because you came blazing into the convo blaming nationalists and your opposites.

I'm thrilled that you get it. But that 1st post of yours wasn't totally convincing that you could put your partisanship aside long enough to explain it..

"blaming nationalists"

Absolutely, otherwise known as giving them credit. Do we blame them or credit them for Brexit? What is the difference?

And i believe these nationalist forces can weaken our international institutions. What about that is controversial? It seems that is their goal... am I shaming them to give them credit for achieving their goals?

OK. But I think our biggest divisions are just based on winning and obtaining power for 2 inept corrupt parties that need to die. That's what elections are all about now. It's not about competence or ideas or solutions. Just WINNING. And the kind of winning that's going on in the tribal wars is killing us all...

Not "nationalist" forces at work. The biggest nationalist argument right now is loving your country or not. Or being for or against a simple act of unity in respecting the Flag and the National Anthem.

If THAT's nationalism --- then it really IS A BIG problem.

" obtaining power for 2 inept corrupt parties that need to die."

You're preaching to the choir, brother. We need publicly funded elections.

Last thing i want to see is INCUMBENT politicians controlling election finances. Like giving my ATM password to a drug addled nephew.

The number of convicted party animals from BOTH SIDES is now almost equal to the "Big Middle" who pisses on both. The Indies and 3rd parties screwed up the polling and the results of the last elections. THAT'S where the revolt is gonna come from. THere are gonna be more strong challenges from Indies and 3rd parties who are not CAPTIVE and GAGGED by Dem/Rep leadership.

Just a dozen or so of THOSE -- would greatly reduce the stranglehold that the party bosses have on the 532 OTHER members of Congress. Who are impotent to speak out or vote conscience.

Doesn't matter WHO funds it. You need to get rid of the system where just FOUR Congress critters make or break all the others. IN FACT -- Trump proved money ain't all that important. Lots of recent elections, the HEAVILY funded candidate went down in flames.

When the people are MAD AS HELL -- the money don't matter.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

"He's exploiting them."

Yes, agreed. My interest in Trump's involvement is not "tribal", that's just you dressing up the charlatan's tactic of "branding" with a surrounding of word salad. What happened here matters. I don't claim to know the truth of it all. But it does matter, and for you to characterize this as a product of exploitation of our divisions is absolutely correct, but you would choose to blame the "tribal warriors" for this, but not the people who did the deed. I find that to be dangerous thinking. We are on the same side, here. We need to act like it.

I only commented on it because you came blazing into the convo blaming nationalists and your opposites.

I'm thrilled that you get it. But that 1st post of yours wasn't totally convincing that you could put your partisanship aside long enough to explain it..

"blaming nationalists"

Absolutely, otherwise known as giving them credit. Do we blame them or credit them for Brexit? What is the difference?

And i believe these nationalist forces can weaken our international institutions. What about that is controversial? It seems that is their goal... am I shaming them to give them credit for achieving their goals?

OK. But I think our biggest divisions are just based on winning and obtaining power for 2 inept corrupt parties that need to die. That's what elections are all about now. It's not about competence or ideas or solutions. Just WINNING. And the kind of winning that's going on in the tribal wars is killing us all...

Not "nationalist" forces at work. The biggest nationalist argument right now is loving your country or not. Or being for or against a simple act of unity in respecting the Flag and the National Anthem.

If THAT's nationalism --- then it really IS A BIG problem.

" obtaining power for 2 inept corrupt parties that need to die."

You're preaching to the choir, brother. We need publicly funded elections.

Last thing i want to see is INCUMBENT politicians controlling election finances. Like giving my ATM password to a drug addled nephew.

The number of convicted party animals from BOTH SIDES is now almost equal to the "Big Middle" who pisses on both. The Indies and 3rd parties screwed up the polling and the results of the last elections. THAT'S where the revolt is gonna come from. THere are gonna be more strong challenges from Indies and 3rd parties who are not CAPTIVE and GAGGED by Dem/Rep leadership.

Just a dozen or so of THOSE -- would greatly reduce the stranglehold that the party bosses have on the 532 OTHER members of Congress. Who are impotent to speak out or vote conscience.

Doesn't matter WHO funds it. You need to get rid of the system where just FOUR Congress critters make or break all the others. IN FACT -- Trump proved money ain't all that important. Lots of recent elections, the HEAVILY funded candidate went down in flames.

When the people are MAD AS HELL -- the money don't matter.

The incumbents should"t control the finances, or the gerrymandering. This can be worded in a bill.

"When the people are MAD AS HELL "

....they might be more prone to making poor decisions.

 

[flacaltenn]

"Any morons believe that the USA did NOT pepper the Soviet Union when they saw the weaknesses with SIMILAR "break-up" agi-prop and support Gorby in the various coupes that broke up the Kremlin/Sjoviet Union?? RDean????? "

Of course not, people just realize which side we are on. Funny how the nationalists are suddenly at the back of this line... ironic, when you think about it...

Just told you it's OUR POLITICAL tribal wars that Putin is poking at. He's not CAUSED them. He's exploiting them. And you -- being a "party animal" turn around and demonstrate how it's OUR fault -- and not his by being a "tribal warrior"..

Don't think you get it yet. Because those that do -- are IMMUNE from anything that looks like propaganda ads on Facebook. It's only the die-hard 2 party faithful who are susceptible to it. That's why there's 4 current threads discussing Jarrod Kushner's voter's registration as a women in NY State --- rather than any of the things of substance. Carry on warriors. Carry on...

Death match of OUR making and the 2 dying parties want to blame it on the Ruskies.

"He's exploiting them."

Yes, agreed. My interest in Trump's involvement is not "tribal", that's just you dressing up the charlatan's tactic of "branding" with a surrounding of word salad. What happened here matters. I don't claim to know the truth of it all. But it does matter, and for you to characterize this as a product of exploitation of our divisions is absolutely correct, but you would choose to blame the "tribal warriors" for this, but not the people who did the deed. I find that to be dangerous thinking. We are on the same side, here. We need to act like it.

I only commented on it because you came blazing into the convo blaming nationalists and your opposites.

I'm thrilled that you get it. But that 1st post of yours wasn't totally convincing that you could put your partisanship aside long enough to explain it..

"blaming nationalists"

Absolutely, otherwise known as giving them credit. Do we blame them or credit them for Brexit? What is the difference?

And i believe these nationalist forces can weaken our international institutions. What about that is controversial? It seems that is their goal... am I shaming them to give them credit for achieving their goals?

Your and flac's rhetorical flourishes are damn near impenetrable. Is this how you talk in real world face to face conversation?

What;s not clear about statements like

I think our biggest divisions are just based on winning and obtaining power for 2 inept corrupt parties that need to die.

????? That's really the ONLY REASON people vote lately -- right? TO WIN. Because to lose to the other side would be end of the ******* world. Damn the issues. Damn problem solving and new ideas. The division is based on WINNING and obtaining and holding power --- not fixing the ******* country.

That's why this propaganda works. Because we've polarized ourselves into inaction and incompetence. American politics is just a another spectator sport to select between piss poor choices of leadership.

Damn -- a mental midget could exploit that situation. Doesn't require Putin to do it..

 

[tinydancer]

"He's exploiting them."

Yes, agreed. My interest in Trump's involvement is not "tribal", that's just you dressing up the charlatan's tactic of "branding" with a surrounding of word salad. What happened here matters. I don't claim to know the truth of it all. But it does matter, and for you to characterize this as a product of exploitation of our divisions is absolutely correct, but you would choose to blame the "tribal warriors" for this, but not the people who did the deed. I find that to be dangerous thinking. We are on the same side, here. We need to act like it.

I only commented on it because you came blazing into the convo blaming nationalists and your opposites.

I'm thrilled that you get it. But that 1st post of yours wasn't totally convincing that you could put your partisanship aside long enough to explain it..

"blaming nationalists"

Absolutely, otherwise known as giving them credit. Do we blame them or credit them for Brexit? What is the difference?

And i believe these nationalist forces can weaken our international institutions. What about that is controversial? It seems that is their goal... am I shaming them to give them credit for achieving their goals?

OK. But I think our biggest divisions are just based on winning and obtaining power for 2 inept corrupt parties that need to die. That's what elections are all about now. It's not about competence or ideas or solutions. Just WINNING. And the kind of winning that's going on in the tribal wars is killing us all...

Not "nationalist" forces at work. The biggest nationalist argument right now is loving your country or not. Or being for or against a simple act of unity in respecting the Flag and the National Anthem.

If THAT's nationalism --- then it really IS A BIG problem.

" obtaining power for 2 inept corrupt parties that need to die."

You're preaching to the choir, brother. We need publicly funded elections.

Last thing i want to see is INCUMBENT politicians controlling election finances. Like giving my ATM password to a drug addled nephew.

The number of convicted party animals from BOTH SIDES is now almost equal to the "Big Middle" who pisses on both. The Indies and 3rd parties screwed up the polling and the results of the last elections. THAT'S where the revolt is gonna come from. THere are gonna be more strong challenges from Indies and 3rd parties who are not CAPTIVE and GAGGED by Dem/Rep leadership.

Just a dozen or so of THOSE -- would greatly reduce the stranglehold that the party bosses have on the 532 OTHER members of Congress. Who are impotent to speak out or vote conscience.

Doesn't matter WHO funds it. You need to get rid of the system where just FOUR Congress critters make or break all the others. IN FACT -- Trump proved money ain't all that important. Lots of recent elections, the HEAVILY funded candidate went down in flames.

When the people are MAD AS HELL -- the money don't matter.

Case in point the mega win of Team Bannon/Moore over Team McConnell and Javanka/Strange. Millions poured in for the RINO. And it didn't matter in the end.

 

[flacaltenn]

I only commented on it because you came blazing into the convo blaming nationalists and your opposites.

I'm thrilled that you get it. But that 1st post of yours wasn't totally convincing that you could put your partisanship aside long enough to explain it..

"blaming nationalists"

Absolutely, otherwise known as giving them credit. Do we blame them or credit them for Brexit? What is the difference?

And i believe these nationalist forces can weaken our international institutions. What about that is controversial? It seems that is their goal... am I shaming them to give them credit for achieving their goals?

OK. But I think our biggest divisions are just based on winning and obtaining power for 2 inept corrupt parties that need to die. That's what elections are all about now. It's not about competence or ideas or solutions. Just WINNING. And the kind of winning that's going on in the tribal wars is killing us all...

Not "nationalist" forces at work. The biggest nationalist argument right now is loving your country or not. Or being for or against a simple act of unity in respecting the Flag and the National Anthem.

If THAT's nationalism --- then it really IS A BIG problem.

" obtaining power for 2 inept corrupt parties that need to die."

You're preaching to the choir, brother. We need publicly funded elections.

Last thing i want to see is INCUMBENT politicians controlling election finances. Like giving my ATM password to a drug addled nephew.

The number of convicted party animals from BOTH SIDES is now almost equal to the "Big Middle" who pisses on both. The Indies and 3rd parties screwed up the polling and the results of the last elections. THAT'S where the revolt is gonna come from. THere are gonna be more strong challenges from Indies and 3rd parties who are not CAPTIVE and GAGGED by Dem/Rep leadership.

Just a dozen or so of THOSE -- would greatly reduce the stranglehold that the party bosses have on the 532 OTHER members of Congress. Who are impotent to speak out or vote conscience.

Doesn't matter WHO funds it. You need to get rid of the system where just FOUR Congress critters make or break all the others. IN FACT -- Trump proved money ain't all that important. Lots of recent elections, the HEAVILY funded candidate went down in flames.

When the people are MAD AS HELL -- the money don't matter.

The incumbents should"t control the finances, or the gerrymandering. This can be worded in a bill.

"When the people are MAD AS HELL "

....they might be more prone to making poor decisions.

They might make poorer choices. Like the Ala special election just did. But they were OFFERED poor choices because those are the folks who can "WIN". You're not getting quality people because it's now a freak circus.

Quality people will run "off-party". As Indies or Libertarians or some new movement. They CAN'T BE Repubs or Dems anymore. Because the party bosses have them gagged and bound when they arrive at their new office.

Libertarians ran 2 quality people last Nov. Two ex 2 term governors from Blue states. People wouldn't "waste their vote" on quality and experience -- simply because they "couldn't win".. I think that attitude is gonna change when more people realize how fucked we are..

With the media fake news and possible attempts from RUssia to blow away voter confidence, it's really hard to get traction on issues, ideas, solutions when all people want to talk about is seccession or grabbing *****.

 

[oreo]

In fact, the guy who started it in California eventually quit and moved to Russia.
The guy who took over after him previously lived in Moscow.

Calexit leader quits secession effort for Russia - CNNPolitics

Russian-linked Facebook group asked Texas secession movement to be in anti-Clinton rallies: report

Putin’s Plot to Get Texas to Secede

Wowie Kazowie, every time you turn around, you find that Russia is there.

In fact, Russia supported Jill Stein.

Russian plot to elect Trump included Jill Stein, according to latest gleeful Twitter theory

Russia was really, really scared of Hillary. Too bad Republicans aren't, scared of Russia that is. Wow, the GOP LOVES Russia.

Hey Russia, how's that attack on the Ukraine going? Got anymore nations lined up to take over?

Russians were working from Syberia to promote the sucession of California--- That's hysterical. Russian adds were supporting both Jill Stein and Bernie Sanders even after Sanders conceded the nomination to Hillary Clinton. "you won't waste your vote"

Texas sucession here is also interesting:

"Nathan Smith, who styles himself the “foreign minister” for the Texas Nationalist Movement, appeared last Spring at a far-right confab in St. Petersburg, Russia. Despite roaming around in his cowboy hat, Smith managed to keep a low-key presence at the conference, which was dominated by fascists and neo-Nazis railing against Western decadence. But at least one Russian newspaper, Vzglyad, caught up with the American, noted that TNM is “hardly a marginal group,”and quoted Smith liberally on the excellent prospects for a partial breakup of the United States. Smith declared that the Texas National Movement has 250,000 supporters—including all the Texans currently serving in the U.S. Army—and they all “identify themselves first and foremost as Texans” but are being forced to remain Americans. The United States, he added, “is not a democracy, but a dictatorship.” The Kremlin’s famed troll farms took the interview and ran with it, with dozens of bots instantly tweeting about a “Free Texas.”
Putin’s Plot to Get Texas to Secede

But the invasion of FACEBOOK had to have American citizens involved. The Russians knew what districts to target with their mis-information. Black Lives Matter--they invaded with fake adds and specifically targeted for Ferguson & Milwalkee.

Immigration and anti Muslim (Syrian Refugee adds) were also targeted by the Russians into specific states and districts.

The add that Hillary Clinton formed ISIS & armed Muslims came from Russia. Trump campaigned on that one--

They were very well financed to buy 3300 or more adds and put them on FACEBOOK and knew exactly where to direct them. I thiink they'll eventually get to the bottom of the source in this country, and if they find Americans anywhere they will be charged.

Even FBI director Comey was Roped a Doped by a Russian document with mis-information regarding his investigation into Hillary Clintons emails.

A secret document that officials say played a key role in then-FBI Director James B. Comey’s handling of the Hillary Clinton email investigation has long been viewed within the FBI as unreliable and possibly a fake, according to people familiar with its contents.

In the midst of the 2016 presidential primary season, the FBI received what was described as a Russian intelligence document claiming a tacit understanding between the Clinton campaign and the Justice Department over the inquiry into whether she intentionally revealed classified information through her use of a private email server.

The Russian document cited a supposed email describing how then-Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch had privately assured someone in the Clinton campaign that the email investigation would not push too deeply into the matter. If true, the revelation of such an understanding would have undermined the integrity of the FBI’s investigation.

Current and former officials have said that Comey relied on the document in making his July decision to announce on his own, without Justice Department involvement, that the investigation was over. That public announcement — in which he criticized Clinton and made extensive comments about the evidence — set in motion a chain of other FBI moves that Democrats now say helped Trump win the presidential election.
How a dubious Russian document influenced the FBI’s handling of the Clinton probe

Russians everywhere--

Unbelievable!!!

 

[flacaltenn]

I only commented on it because you came blazing into the convo blaming nationalists and your opposites.

I'm thrilled that you get it. But that 1st post of yours wasn't totally convincing that you could put your partisanship aside long enough to explain it..

"blaming nationalists"

Absolutely, otherwise known as giving them credit. Do we blame them or credit them for Brexit? What is the difference?

And i believe these nationalist forces can weaken our international institutions. What about that is controversial? It seems that is their goal... am I shaming them to give them credit for achieving their goals?

OK. But I think our biggest divisions are just based on winning and obtaining power for 2 inept corrupt parties that need to die. That's what elections are all about now. It's not about competence or ideas or solutions. Just WINNING. And the kind of winning that's going on in the tribal wars is killing us all...

Not "nationalist" forces at work. The biggest nationalist argument right now is loving your country or not. Or being for or against a simple act of unity in respecting the Flag and the National Anthem.

If THAT's nationalism --- then it really IS A BIG problem.

" obtaining power for 2 inept corrupt parties that need to die."

You're preaching to the choir, brother. We need publicly funded elections.

Last thing i want to see is INCUMBENT politicians controlling election finances. Like giving my ATM password to a drug addled nephew.

The number of convicted party animals from BOTH SIDES is now almost equal to the "Big Middle" who pisses on both. The Indies and 3rd parties screwed up the polling and the results of the last elections. THAT'S where the revolt is gonna come from. THere are gonna be more strong challenges from Indies and 3rd parties who are not CAPTIVE and GAGGED by Dem/Rep leadership.

Just a dozen or so of THOSE -- would greatly reduce the stranglehold that the party bosses have on the 532 OTHER members of Congress. Who are impotent to speak out or vote conscience.

Doesn't matter WHO funds it. You need to get rid of the system where just FOUR Congress critters make or break all the others. IN FACT -- Trump proved money ain't all that important. Lots of recent elections, the HEAVILY funded candidate went down in flames.

When the people are MAD AS HELL -- the money don't matter.

Case in point the mega win of Team Bannon/Moore over Team McConnell and Javanka/Strange. Millions poured in for the RINO. And it didn't matter in the end.

Javanka... Almost as good as a the "L'il KimChee" I started for the bad haircut/suit guy in NK.. Lots of folks have no idea what Kimchee is tho..

 

[radical right]

That's why this propaganda works. Because we've polarized ourselves into inaction and incompetence. American politics is just a another spectator sport to select between piss poor choices of leadership.

They always said a great nation never gets defeated from the outside, but can easily crumble from the inside.

The russians have been encouraging the crumbling of dozens of countries.

 

[flacaltenn]

That's why this propaganda works. Because we've polarized ourselves into inaction and incompetence. American politics is just a another spectator sport to select between piss poor choices of leadership.

They always said a great nation never gets defeated from the outside, but can easily crumble from the inside.

The russians have been encouraging the crumbling of dozens of countries.

We crumbled the Soviet Union with similar agi-prop during the Cold War. That's why Putin understands how vulnerable we've made ourselves now..

It works. But it can't it be blamed for creating a political death match between 2 dying political brand name parties.

 

[radical right]

It works. But it can't it be blamed for creating a political death match between 2 dying political brand name parties.

Jill Stein attended the same Putin meeting that Michael Flynn spoke at. Hillary lost in Wisconsin by less than the number of votes Jill Stein diverted. And they found russians ran ads for Jill Stein.

 

[AntonToo]

MOFact. show of hands. Any morons believe that the USA did NOT pepper the Soviet Union when they saw the weaknesses with SIMILAR "break-up" agi-prop and support Gorby in the various coupes that broke up the Kremlin/Sjoviet Union?? RDean?????

Sobering new is --- Putin sees that SAME WEAKNESS NOW in the USA. Good chance a proper psych-op/agi-prop campaign could push US to a similar break-up.... He's correct... Won't be his fault -- but he sure wants to be in on the "fun"......

Trump said this soon after the election about "Russian involvement in our politics". He REPEATEDLY asked -- "Do you think OUR HANDS are clean? They are not"........ Should have been a clue to what I'm telling you here.

where are you going with this?

They do it, we do it, let's just roll around in equivalency and never mind.

Yea?