They are not his words, they are documented facts. What documents facts do you have to support your claims ??
Seek Peace, Pursue Justice in Israel-Palestine
- Thread starter P F Tinmore
- Start date
They are not his words, they are documented facts. What documents facts do you have to support your claims ??
Hossfly
ZIONIST
Just got done checking Google Earth and can't find Israel's borders. Need some help here.
SherriMunnerlyn
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POSITIONS parties take do not give nations borders, they are even subject to change and frequently do, there is no principle such as you suggest in the law. About the law, we have The International Court of Justice Opinion that tells us the Palestinians have sovereignty rights in East Jerusalem and the West Bank and Gaza. What is left to determine is who has sovereignty rights in the rest of the land that was British Mandate Palestine.
Can you provide documented information that suggests ISrael has no borders??? Because if not, you clearly lost the argument, like usual
RoccoR
Gold Member
Hossfly,
There are two kinds of Google Earth Mapping systems; one that is open source and one that is restricted for government use. There are all sorts of imagery restriction on that segment of territory.
SEPARATE GE LINK ---> Google Map of Israel - Nations Online Project
Partial Image with Treaty Borders
Blacked-out areas are restricted.
Most Respectfully,
R
There are two kinds of Google Earth Mapping systems; one that is open source and one that is restricted for government use. There are all sorts of imagery restriction on that segment of territory.
(oBSerVAtiON)
SEPARATE GE LINK ---> Google Map of Israel - Nations Online Project
Partial Image with Treaty Borders
Blacked-out areas are restricted.
Most Respectfully,
R
SherriMunnerlyn
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WHAT documented facts do you speak of? YOU claim Israel has borders, explain it. ARE you capable of doing that?
See post #81 in this thread
SherriMunnerlyn
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Can you provide documented information that suggests ISrael has no borders??? Because if not, you clearly lost the argument, like usual
WHY should I prove your claim?
Can you provide documented information that suggests ISrael has no borders??? Because if not, you clearly lost the argument, like usual
WHY should I prove your claim?
See post 81
RoccoR
Gold Member
SherriMunnerlyn; Tinmore; et al,
Just a coupe additional points I'd like to express.
The border of today are outline, officially and on the record, before the entire world. You (personally) may recognize them or not (makes no difference to me). I can only tell you what is (reality).
How we get to this point is a long hard and arduous struggle. However you interpret those events that lead us to today's outcome --- we are here.
Relative to UNGA Resolution 181(II), while a matter for the record --- whether you agree or not, it happened. And Israel is admitted to the community of recognized states. You may hold to the opinion that it is not fair, that the Palestinians were treated unfairly, etc etc etc. The fact of the matter, it happened. And unless you have a time machine, you cannot change the past. Again, we are here.
As to who speaks officially for the Palestinian people, I differ to you. If you say that the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations (recently reaffirmed) has no voice, and his/her authority to speak is untrustworthy, I will of course take that under advisement. Under such an assumption, we could of course, disregard anything the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations says --- which simplifies the matter. Palestine has no official voice that is trustworthy; or --- there is no voice for the Palestinians.
(QUESTION)
In reality there are the treaties / armistice that we have, and the Gaza Strip which is very confused, and the West Bank that is not coherent, and Jerusalem --- fractured and chaotic. The question becomes:
R
Just a coupe additional points I'd like to express.
(COMMENT)
The border of today are outline, officially and on the record, before the entire world. You (personally) may recognize them or not (makes no difference to me). I can only tell you what is (reality).
- SOUTHERN BORDER: The entire southern border is in no-contest. The treaty (effective law) establishes that segment in Article II. (LINK ---> Peace Treaty between Israel and Egypt - Non-UN document (26 March 1979)) Together, with the unilaterial withdrawal from the Gaza Strip (LINK ---> S/2005/559 of 31 August 2005) the entire souther border is established.
- NORTHERN BORDER: The UN documents and the exchange between the SecGen & President of Lebanon establishes and reaffirms "international boundary between Israel and Lebanon" in Paragraph 13 of S/2000/460. (LINKS ---> A/54/914-S/2000/564 of 12 June 2000 AND S/2000/460 of 22 May 2000).
- EASTERN BORDER:
- The Treaty of Peace Between The Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan And The State of Israel October 26, 1994 (effective law) (LINKs ---> The Jordan-Israeli Peace Treaty OR A/50/73-S/1995/83 of 27 January 1995) establishes the "international boundary between Israel and Jordan" in Article 3.
- There is a dispute between Syria and Israel along the border, in the Golan Heights region. Internationally, there is a small segment of Israel's borders that is in dispute which is covered by an Armistice Agreement (LINK ---> S/1353 of 20 July 1949)
How we get to this point is a long hard and arduous struggle. However you interpret those events that lead us to today's outcome --- we are here.
Relative to UNGA Resolution 181(II), while a matter for the record --- whether you agree or not, it happened. And Israel is admitted to the community of recognized states. You may hold to the opinion that it is not fair, that the Palestinians were treated unfairly, etc etc etc. The fact of the matter, it happened. And unless you have a time machine, you cannot change the past. Again, we are here.
As to who speaks officially for the Palestinian people, I differ to you. If you say that the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations (recently reaffirmed) has no voice, and his/her authority to speak is untrustworthy, I will of course take that under advisement. Under such an assumption, we could of course, disregard anything the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations says --- which simplifies the matter. Palestine has no official voice that is trustworthy; or --- there is no voice for the Palestinians.
(QUESTION)
In reality there are the treaties / armistice that we have, and the Gaza Strip which is very confused, and the West Bank that is not coherent, and Jerusalem --- fractured and chaotic. The question becomes:
- What is in the best interest of the people?
- What is in the best interest of the people?
- What is in the best interest of the people?
R
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P F Tinmore
Diamond Member
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- #111
The Palestinians have consistently called for peace based on international law.
I agree with that.
It is Israel who refuses and wants to continue its war.
SherriMunnerlyn
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Tresties between two purported nations are simply agreements between the two of them. THEY cannot give sovereignty of land they never had to anyone else. THe Problem is sovereignty rights have never left the indigenous Palestinian peoples and only an agreement between them, that includes indigenous Jewish people in the land can give Israel legitimacy as a nation and borders.
as a 'lawyer', you should know that you need to back up your claims. So please, back up your claims that ISrael has no borders
member
Pls trust in God
"The Palestinians have consistently called for peace..."i bet you typed that with a straight face........
Do you believe your own lies ?
SherriMunnerlyn
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You claim Israel has borders, you prove it. That is how it works when people make claims like you are doing. You back them up or disclose your claim to be baseless.
Are you blind ???? I said look at post 81 !!
RoccoR
Gold Member
SherriMunnerlyn; et al,
A partial opposing view.
Of course you are the legal eagle here, so --- your opinion is valued on this issue.
The treaties themselves, don't grant sovereignty. That is already recognizes as in the acceptance to the UN as a member nation. What the treaty does is codify with the UN the accepted boundaries. As you know, in Article 102 of the Charter, each Member must register the a treaty with the UN. And as you've seen, I supplied the UN archive address for each of the Treaties and Armistice agreement cited I've cited.
I often wondered if any of this stuff, I had to know in my previous life, would ever again be useful to me.
Most Respectfully,
R
A partial opposing view.
(COMMENT)
Of course you are the legal eagle here, so --- your opinion is valued on this issue.
The treaties themselves, don't grant sovereignty. That is already recognizes as in the acceptance to the UN as a member nation. What the treaty does is codify with the UN the accepted boundaries. As you know, in Article 102 of the Charter, each Member must register the a treaty with the UN. And as you've seen, I supplied the UN archive address for each of the Treaties and Armistice agreement cited I've cited.
Chapter 16 said:
UN Fact Sheet #1: Understanding International Law said:
I often wondered if any of this stuff, I had to know in my previous life, would ever again be useful to me.
Most Respectfully,
R
the most important and sociopathic manipulation of terms ---used in the
above post by the above mendacious gobbellian propagandaist is the
word INDIGENOUS Keep in mind----it has declared that Jesus of
nazareth was an INDGENOUS PALESTINIAN JUST LIKE THE TERRORIST
PIG SAMER THE HUNGERKUNSTLER CIRCUS FREAK-----because both spoke
or speak arabic .
She actually seems to be making a claim for a class of persons she
does not actually know how to define ---to wit---"INDIGENOUS
PEOPLE" because in the past ----in feeble minds it evoked an
EMOTION of oppression. It is true that the indigenous people
of the americas were murdered and oppressed by her kith
and kin in the scores of millions-----but that is history---not a
general principle of contract law..
After an entirely mendacious and manipulative use of the word
"indigenous"----she then asserts---comically ---with pedantic idiocy--
that the only the contracts of these undefined 'indigenous" persons --
can be considered valid in law. poor thing ties herself in up in
absurd sophist knots asserting with absolute certainty ---her own
customized "PRINCIPLES OF CONTRACT LAW which IF APPLIED_--
in the psychotic manner she wishes to apply them-----would
delegitamize every country in the world.
I am reminded of a muslim from Lebanon---who argued that the
maronites of Lebanon have no legitimate rights in the country
because they are more "french" than "arab" ---there is no limit
to the absurdity of isa-respecting humor
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