Seek Peace, Pursue Justice in Israel-Palestine

[toastman]

The International Court Of Justice Opinion finds East Jerusalem and the West Bank and Gaza are occupied by Israel, meaning Israel has no sovereignty rights in those lands. This issue has been decided by the highest court in the world in an almost unanimous decision.

I realize that the international community considers Turkey occupying Northern Cyprus, but has the "highest court in the world" said anything about this? Has it said anything about China occupying Tibet? If they are silent on these issues, could you tell us why they are only focusing on Israel? After all, you seem to be the expert here on the "highest court in the world."

Remember, where the Jews aren't involved , Sherri has no interest.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

You are speaking of yourself, of course.
You haven't proved anything concernig Israels borders.

WHY should I prove anything about Israels borders? I never made any claim about them.

You were quoted earlier saying Israel has no borders, but you didnt back it up with any viable information. Aren't you a lawyer?

The Thread Title is Seek Peace Pursue Justice In Israel Palestine. That is our topic of discussion. And that requires Israel ending her Occupation of Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Essentially, what my sources tell us is land acquired by military conquest by Israel, she has no sovereignty rights in that land. She has no sovereignty rights in lands in East Jerusalem and the West Bank and Gaza. The International Court of Justice confirmed this to be true in its Opiniin on the Wall in 2004.

Impact on right of Palestinian people to self-determination (paras. 115-122)

It notes in this regard the contentions of Palestine and other participants that the construction of the wall is “an attempt to annex the territory contrary to international law” and “a violation of the legal principle prohibiting the acquisition of territory by the use of force” and that “the de facto annexation of land interferes with the territorial sovereignty and consequently with the right of the Palestinians to self-determination”. It notes also that Israel, for its part, has argued that the wall’s sole purpose is to enable it effectively to combat terrorist attacks launched from the West Bank, and that Israel has repeatedly stated that the Barrier is a temporary measure.

The Court recalls that both the General Assembly and the Security Council have referred, with regard to Palestine, to the customary rule of “the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war”. As regards the principle of the right of peoples to self-determination, the Court observes that the existence of a “Palestinian people” is no longer in issue, and has been recognized by Israel, along with that people’s “legitimate rights”. The Court considers that those rights include the right to self-determination, as the General Assembly has moreover recognized on a number of occasions.

http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/131/1677.pdf

“the de facto annexation of land interferes with the territorial sovereignty and consequently with the right of the Palestinians to self-determination”

It is interesting that the ICJ mentioned the territorial sovereignty of the Palestinians.

Israel consistently claims that since Palestine has never been an independent state (according to Israel's opinion) that the Palestinians have no right to their land - that the territory was up for grabs.

This looks like just another Israeli lie.

Of course this is why Israel has no land or borders. The only way Israel can acquire land and establish borders is an agreement with the Palestinians.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

While we spend so much time speaking of ending occupation and reaching agreements, the facts on the ground is what the people are living with and that is their daily struggle, dealing with so many injustices and human rights violations. I was reading an article written by Bassem Tamimi not long ago addressing this. The demographics issue is more and more resembling the situation with Apartheid in South Africa, and the discrimination and violations of human rights are even more egregious then they were there.

 

[toastman]

Impact on right of Palestinian people to self-determination (paras. 115-122)

It notes in this regard the contentions of Palestine and other participants that the construction of the wall is “an attempt to annex the territory contrary to international law” and “a violation of the legal principle prohibiting the acquisition of territory by the use of force” and that “the de facto annexation of land interferes with the territorial sovereignty and consequently with the right of the Palestinians to self-determination”. It notes also that Israel, for its part, has argued that the wall’s sole purpose is to enable it effectively to combat terrorist attacks launched from the West Bank, and that Israel has repeatedly stated that the Barrier is a temporary measure.

The Court recalls that both the General Assembly and the Security Council have referred, with regard to Palestine, to the customary rule of “the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war”. As regards the principle of the right of peoples to self-determination, the Court observes that the existence of a “Palestinian people” is no longer in issue, and has been recognized by Israel, along with that people’s “legitimate rights”. The Court considers that those rights include the right to self-determination, as the General Assembly has moreover recognized on a number of occasions.

http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/131/1677.pdf

“the de facto annexation of land interferes with the territorial sovereignty and consequently with the right of the Palestinians to self-determination”

It is interesting that the ICJ mentioned the territorial sovereignty of the Palestinians.

Israel consistently claims that since Palestine has never been an independent state (according to Israel's opinion) that the Palestinians have no right to their land - that the territory was up for grabs.

This looks like just another Israeli lie.

Of course this is why Israel has no land or borders. The only way Israel can acquire land and establish borders is an agreement with the Palestinians.

link?

 

[P F Tinmore]

It is interesting that the ICJ mentioned the territorial sovereignty of the Palestinians.

Israel consistently claims that since Palestine has never been an independent state (according to Israel's opinion) that the Palestinians have no right to their land - that the territory was up for grabs.

This looks like just another Israeli lie.

Of course this is why Israel has no land or borders. The only way Israel can acquire land and establish borders is an agreement with the Palestinians.

link?

Link is already in this post.

 

[toastman]

Weird, not anywhere in that quote does it mention borders

 

[P F Tinmore]

Weird, not anywhere in that quote does it mention borders

Do you always walk around in that fog?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

The idea of "de facto annexation" is a novel concept, but it is not really what is going on here. It is just a phrase of description for an effect the court perceives is retarding "territorial sovereignty of the Palestinians." Which it is not. The Palestinians, if they had their act together, could declare independence anytime they want.

Weird, not anywhere in that quote does it mention borders

Do you always walk around in that fog?

(COMMENT)

While the Palestinians may think they are the center of the universe, in actuality, nobody really wants either the West Bank or Gaza Strip. There is some significants to Jerusalem, but Jerusalem was always considered as a place that should be its own entity; neither Israeli or Arab.

The remainder, Gaza and the West Bank, are really sitting on "unimproved ground" with a "derelict indigenous population" that infests the land with no real economic or industrial potential. No bordering nation really wants them; not Israel or any associated Arab League State. It represents about 5 million Palestinian that would immediately become parasitic on whoever claims them. Clearly Israel doesn't want them, and you don't see anyone [with the possible exception of Iran (via the IRGS-QF) a Shia based Islamic State under Sharia Law (vast majority of Palestinians are followers of the Sunni branch of Islam (odd alliance)] jumping up from the localized Arab States that want to take-on that burden or responsibility. And as everyone knows, the quasi-government in Gaza and the West Bank can't even make payroll, let alone make improvements, without western handouts. The Palestinians are an "Albatros around the neck" of anyone that commits to help them.

When the LoN/UN speaks of the ability to stand alone, they were not talking about a culture - like the Palestinians - that were never really able to independently support themselves and have no reasonable expectation that they can support themselves in the future. As much as the Palestinians bad mouth the US, which has committed over $4B in bilateral assistance, globally --- the Palestinians are one of the top recipients (per capita) of international foreign aid, they really need that support. They are not now, nor have they ever been, a people that could "stand alone."

There is this theory that, neither the Israelis or Hamas wants to advance the cause of peace. Neither wants the West Bank, to achieve a peace accord with Israel. They both prefer low intensity struggle to continue indefinitely. Certainly Hamas wants to keep getting the free handouts for their government --- keeping them in power. There is no other way of life for them. And with the recent resignation of Prime Minister Salam Fayyad, the West Bank's progress toward economic growth (9% between 2008-2010, according to the IMF), may stall dramatically and undermine the peace process.

In any event, no one wants to annex either the West Bank or Gaza. It is simply economically too risky as long as the Palestinians are totally dependent on outside support for continuation of basic operations (whether it comes from the US or the Arab League).

Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.

SOURCE: Avalon Project - The Covenant of the League of Nations

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[irosie91]

mr R did you author that essay on the palestinians?
My limited insight into the palestinians---came first
from nazi propaganda I read as a child----cheap stuff
in throwaway pamphlets that littered my town.
Later on from people from the middle east ---a
few from gaza---and muslims from around the world.

the closer the muslims were from "around the world"
to "the palestinians" -----the more negative
towards them----they seemed Egyptians all but
GRIMACE when they say "balestinians'
as to Iranians----I can seem them wanting gazans to
kill jews-----but LIVING WITH THEM?????

 

[Roudy]

P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

The idea of "de facto annexation" is a novel concept, but it is not really what is going on here. It is just a phrase of description for an effect the court perceives is retarding "territorial sovereignty of the Palestinians." Which it is not. The Palestinians, if they had their act together, could declare independence anytime they want.

Weird, not anywhere in that quote does it mention borders

Do you always walk around in that fog?

(COMMENT)

While the Palestinians may think they are the center of the universe, in actuality, nobody really wants either the West Bank or Gaza Strip. There is some significants to Jerusalem, but Jerusalem was always considered as a place that should be its own entity; neither Israeli or Arab.

The remainder, Gaza and the West Bank, are really sitting on "unimproved ground" with a "derelict indigenous population" that infests the land with no real economic or industrial potential. No bordering nation really wants them; not Israel or any associated Arab League State. It represents about 5 million Palestinian that would immediately become parasitic on whoever claims them. Clearly Israel doesn't want them, and you don't see anyone [with the possible exception of Iran (via the IRGS-QF) a Shia based Islamic State under Sharia Law (vast majority of Palestinians are followers of the Sunni branch of Islam (odd alliance)] jumping up from the localized Arab States that want to take-on that burden or responsibility. And as everyone knows, the quasi-government in Gaza and the West Bank can't even make payroll, let alone make improvements, without western handouts. The Palestinians are an "Albatros around the neck" of anyone that commits to help them.

When the LoN/UN speaks of the ability to stand alone, they were not talking about a culture - like the Palestinians - that were never really able to independently support themselves and have no reasonable expectation that they can support themselves in the future. As much as the Palestinians bad mouth the US, which has committed over $4B in bilateral assistance, globally --- the Palestinians are one of the top recipients (per capita) of international foreign aid, they really need that support. They are not now, nor have they ever been, a people that could "stand alone."

There is this theory that, neither the Israelis or Hamas wants to advance the cause of peace. Neither wants the West Bank, to achieve a peace accord with Israel. They both prefer low intensity struggle to continue indefinitely. Certainly Hamas wants to keep getting the free handouts for their government --- keeping them in power. There is no other way of life for them. And with the recent resignation of Prime Minister Salam Fayyad, the West Bank's progress toward economic growth (9% between 2008-2010, according to the IMF), may stall dramatically and undermine the peace process.

In any event, no one wants to annex either the West Bank or Gaza. It is simply economically too risky as long as the Palestinians are totally dependent on outside support for continuation of basic operations (whether it comes from the US or the Arab League).

Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.

SOURCE: Avalon Project - The Covenant of the League of Nations

Most Respectfully,
R

Rocco, "they" are stupid and suffer from horrible leadership. If they were smart they would have established a peace with the Israelis who could help them build their infrastructure and make more prosperous and happy than ever before. If you recall during the Clinton years it was a decade of peace and coexistence like never before. Israelis were investing and partnering with Arab Palestinians in factories and businesses. Why it ended is a different story with different versions (We know which version is most likely true).

Point is, Israelis are their best bet and can be their best friends, unlike their neighboring Arabs who have done nothing but abuse them and use them as pawns. Problem is and has always been their "leadership", and the negative influence of entities like Iran.

 

[toastman]

Weird, not anywhere in that quote does it mention borders

Do you always walk around in that fog?

Nice duck. Is that all you got

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

The idea of "de facto annexation" is a novel concept, but it is not really what is going on here. It is just a phrase of description for an effect the court perceives is retarding "territorial sovereignty of the Palestinians." Which it is not. The Palestinians, if they had their act together, could declare independence anytime they want.

Weird, not anywhere in that quote does it mention borders

Do you always walk around in that fog?

(COMMENT)

While the Palestinians may think they are the center of the universe, in actuality, nobody really wants either the West Bank or Gaza Strip. There is some significants to Jerusalem, but Jerusalem was always considered as a place that should be its own entity; neither Israeli or Arab.

The remainder, Gaza and the West Bank, are really sitting on "unimproved ground" with a "derelict indigenous population" that infests the land with no real economic or industrial potential. No bordering nation really wants them; not Israel or any associated Arab League State. It represents about 5 million Palestinian that would immediately become parasitic on whoever claims them. Clearly Israel doesn't want them, and you don't see anyone [with the possible exception of Iran (via the IRGS-QF) a Shia based Islamic State under Sharia Law (vast majority of Palestinians are followers of the Sunni branch of Islam (odd alliance)] jumping up from the localized Arab States that want to take-on that burden or responsibility. And as everyone knows, the quasi-government in Gaza and the West Bank can't even make payroll, let alone make improvements, without western handouts. The Palestinians are an "Albatros around the neck" of anyone that commits to help them.

When the LoN/UN speaks of the ability to stand alone, they were not talking about a culture - like the Palestinians - that were never really able to independently support themselves and have no reasonable expectation that they can support themselves in the future. As much as the Palestinians bad mouth the US, which has committed over $4B in bilateral assistance, globally --- the Palestinians are one of the top recipients (per capita) of international foreign aid, they really need that support. They are not now, nor have they ever been, a people that could "stand alone."

There is this theory that, neither the Israelis or Hamas wants to advance the cause of peace. Neither wants the West Bank, to achieve a peace accord with Israel. They both prefer low intensity struggle to continue indefinitely. Certainly Hamas wants to keep getting the free handouts for their government --- keeping them in power. There is no other way of life for them. And with the recent resignation of Prime Minister Salam Fayyad, the West Bank's progress toward economic growth (9% between 2008-2010, according to the IMF), may stall dramatically and undermine the peace process.

In any event, no one wants to annex either the West Bank or Gaza. It is simply economically too risky as long as the Palestinians are totally dependent on outside support for continuation of basic operations (whether it comes from the US or the Arab League).

Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.

SOURCE: Avalon Project - The Covenant of the League of Nations

Most Respectfully,
R

The remainder, Gaza and the West Bank, are really sitting on "unimproved ground" with a "derelict indigenous population" that infests the land with no real economic or industrial potential.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

They are great pictures. No matter where you go in the Middle East or Persian Gulf you can find pictures like this. But when you are on the ground, the view is much different.

I prefer not to get into a war of pictures. But I will say, there are scenes that make Gaza look inviting. Having said that, I wouldn't want to live there.

Cut: Great pictures.

(COMMENT)

To be fair, I must say that Gaza has made improvements. But it is a failed economy, concentrating on war rather than development.

First, let me say, that I am not a big fan or advocate of the restrictions regarding the Israeli blockade (sea side-naval). I think that the blockade has exceeded its useful life and has now become counter productive. (My opinion. - Realizing that if you are on the receiving end of a rocket attack, it looks much different. Been there - done that.)

The issue of the blockade and border crossing restrictions is definitely something that needs a further and closer examination by both sides. The critical obstacle here is the inability of either side to generate the conditions necessary for the normalization of relations between the two sides (Hamas and Israel). Israel, like the US, sees Hamas as a terrorist organization with direct ties to Iran, as well as other hostile and controversial groups (if not directly with allied terrorists). Hamas simply doesn't recognize the legitimacy of the State of Israel, and obstructs the normalization directly and in the open. What weapons it has been able to smuggle into Gaza, they use against Israel without reservation. Rocket launches are performed in the open from poor residential areas, using civilian tenements as cover; and any resulting casualties as a media event for propaganda.

Both sides attempt to control the media to the extent possible, with Hamas offering large sums of money to informers that can give travel itineraries and routing information on foreign journalist (particularly Israel) for kidnapping purposes. Israel has draconian like restrictions on foreign journalist operating out of Israeli territory. Thus the media on both sides is contaminated and highly prejudicial in the stories they do report.

It is rather clear, that Israeli Officials are waiting for Hamas leaders to make the first concession. If Hamas recognizes Israel, Israel will begin to lift various restrictions that adversely impact Gaza Economics.

But it is unlikely that either side will make that first step to normalize relations and open the processes so necessary and critical for Gaza to exploit commercially. Gaza has about a 30% unemployment rate. It is killing the growth potential and severely limits the benefits of an open economy.

The possible potential for the development of the Gaza Strip is almost in a hostage like standoff --- caught between the two sides.

The analysis, by outside observers say, that the Palestinians would not be trustworthy enough to risk an independent and unilateral move, on the part of the Israelis, to open unrestricted (freedom of) navigation as a possible first step in a show of good faith. The probability is that the Palestinians (Hamas) would immediately exploit the situation and begin a massive smuggling operation of weapons to be used to threaten security and conduct hostile operations.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[High_Gravity]

P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

The idea of "de facto annexation" is a novel concept, but it is not really what is going on here. It is just a phrase of description for an effect the court perceives is retarding "territorial sovereignty of the Palestinians." Which it is not. The Palestinians, if they had their act together, could declare independence anytime they want.

Do you always walk around in that fog?

(COMMENT)

While the Palestinians may think they are the center of the universe, in actuality, nobody really wants either the West Bank or Gaza Strip. There is some significants to Jerusalem, but Jerusalem was always considered as a place that should be its own entity; neither Israeli or Arab.

The remainder, Gaza and the West Bank, are really sitting on "unimproved ground" with a "derelict indigenous population" that infests the land with no real economic or industrial potential. No bordering nation really wants them; not Israel or any associated Arab League State. It represents about 5 million Palestinian that would immediately become parasitic on whoever claims them. Clearly Israel doesn't want them, and you don't see anyone [with the possible exception of Iran (via the IRGS-QF) a Shia based Islamic State under Sharia Law (vast majority of Palestinians are followers of the Sunni branch of Islam (odd alliance)] jumping up from the localized Arab States that want to take-on that burden or responsibility. And as everyone knows, the quasi-government in Gaza and the West Bank can't even make payroll, let alone make improvements, without western handouts. The Palestinians are an "Albatros around the neck" of anyone that commits to help them.

When the LoN/UN speaks of the ability to stand alone, they were not talking about a culture - like the Palestinians - that were never really able to independently support themselves and have no reasonable expectation that they can support themselves in the future. As much as the Palestinians bad mouth the US, which has committed over $4B in bilateral assistance, globally --- the Palestinians are one of the top recipients (per capita) of international foreign aid, they really need that support. They are not now, nor have they ever been, a people that could "stand alone."

There is this theory that, neither the Israelis or Hamas wants to advance the cause of peace. Neither wants the West Bank, to achieve a peace accord with Israel. They both prefer low intensity struggle to continue indefinitely. Certainly Hamas wants to keep getting the free handouts for their government --- keeping them in power. There is no other way of life for them. And with the recent resignation of Prime Minister Salam Fayyad, the West Bank's progress toward economic growth (9% between 2008-2010, according to the IMF), may stall dramatically and undermine the peace process.

In any event, no one wants to annex either the West Bank or Gaza. It is simply economically too risky as long as the Palestinians are totally dependent on outside support for continuation of basic operations (whether it comes from the US or the Arab League).



Most Respectfully,
R

The remainder, Gaza and the West Bank, are really sitting on "unimproved ground" with a "derelict indigenous population" that infests the land with no real economic or industrial potential.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHBwE0cx5dQ]Gaza 2011 - your next travel destination - YouTube[/ame]

And that proves what exactly?

 

[High_Gravity]

P F Tinmore, et al,

They are great pictures. No matter where you go in the Middle East or Persian Gulf you can find pictures like this. But when you are on the ground, the view is much different.

You just nailed it Rocco, people like Tinmore who have never been to the Middle East really don't know what they are talking about.

 

[Hossfly]

P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

The idea of "de facto annexation" is a novel concept, but it is not really what is going on here. It is just a phrase of description for an effect the court perceives is retarding "territorial sovereignty of the Palestinians." Which it is not. The Palestinians, if they had their act together, could declare independence anytime they want.

Do you always walk around in that fog?

(COMMENT)

While the Palestinians may think they are the center of the universe, in actuality, nobody really wants either the West Bank or Gaza Strip. There is some significants to Jerusalem, but Jerusalem was always considered as a place that should be its own entity; neither Israeli or Arab.

The remainder, Gaza and the West Bank, are really sitting on "unimproved ground" with a "derelict indigenous population" that infests the land with no real economic or industrial potential. No bordering nation really wants them; not Israel or any associated Arab League State. It represents about 5 million Palestinian that would immediately become parasitic on whoever claims them. Clearly Israel doesn't want them, and you don't see anyone [with the possible exception of Iran (via the IRGS-QF) a Shia based Islamic State under Sharia Law (vast majority of Palestinians are followers of the Sunni branch of Islam (odd alliance)] jumping up from the localized Arab States that want to take-on that burden or responsibility. And as everyone knows, the quasi-government in Gaza and the West Bank can't even make payroll, let alone make improvements, without western handouts. The Palestinians are an "Albatros around the neck" of anyone that commits to help them.

When the LoN/UN speaks of the ability to stand alone, they were not talking about a culture - like the Palestinians - that were never really able to independently support themselves and have no reasonable expectation that they can support themselves in the future. As much as the Palestinians bad mouth the US, which has committed over $4B in bilateral assistance, globally --- the Palestinians are one of the top recipients (per capita) of international foreign aid, they really need that support. They are not now, nor have they ever been, a people that could "stand alone."

There is this theory that, neither the Israelis or Hamas wants to advance the cause of peace. Neither wants the West Bank, to achieve a peace accord with Israel. They both prefer low intensity struggle to continue indefinitely. Certainly Hamas wants to keep getting the free handouts for their government --- keeping them in power. There is no other way of life for them. And with the recent resignation of Prime Minister Salam Fayyad, the West Bank's progress toward economic growth (9% between 2008-2010, according to the IMF), may stall dramatically and undermine the peace process.

In any event, no one wants to annex either the West Bank or Gaza. It is simply economically too risky as long as the Palestinians are totally dependent on outside support for continuation of basic operations (whether it comes from the US or the Arab League).



Most Respectfully,
R

The remainder, Gaza and the West Bank, are really sitting on "unimproved ground" with a "derelict indigenous population" that infests the land with no real economic or industrial potential.

Shouldn't you have captioned those pictures "Pile Of Rubble---Before"?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, toastman, et al,

The idea of "de facto annexation" is a novel concept, but it is not really what is going on here. It is just a phrase of description for an effect the court perceives is retarding "territorial sovereignty of the Palestinians." Which it is not. The Palestinians, if they had their act together, could declare independence anytime they want.


(COMMENT)

While the Palestinians may think they are the center of the universe, in actuality, nobody really wants either the West Bank or Gaza Strip. There is some significants to Jerusalem, but Jerusalem was always considered as a place that should be its own entity; neither Israeli or Arab.

The remainder, Gaza and the West Bank, are really sitting on "unimproved ground" with a "derelict indigenous population" that infests the land with no real economic or industrial potential. No bordering nation really wants them; not Israel or any associated Arab League State. It represents about 5 million Palestinian that would immediately become parasitic on whoever claims them. Clearly Israel doesn't want them, and you don't see anyone [with the possible exception of Iran (via the IRGS-QF) a Shia based Islamic State under Sharia Law (vast majority of Palestinians are followers of the Sunni branch of Islam (odd alliance)] jumping up from the localized Arab States that want to take-on that burden or responsibility. And as everyone knows, the quasi-government in Gaza and the West Bank can't even make payroll, let alone make improvements, without western handouts. The Palestinians are an "Albatros around the neck" of anyone that commits to help them.

When the LoN/UN speaks of the ability to stand alone, they were not talking about a culture - like the Palestinians - that were never really able to independently support themselves and have no reasonable expectation that they can support themselves in the future. As much as the Palestinians bad mouth the US, which has committed over $4B in bilateral assistance, globally --- the Palestinians are one of the top recipients (per capita) of international foreign aid, they really need that support. They are not now, nor have they ever been, a people that could "stand alone."

There is this theory that, neither the Israelis or Hamas wants to advance the cause of peace. Neither wants the West Bank, to achieve a peace accord with Israel. They both prefer low intensity struggle to continue indefinitely. Certainly Hamas wants to keep getting the free handouts for their government --- keeping them in power. There is no other way of life for them. And with the recent resignation of Prime Minister Salam Fayyad, the West Bank's progress toward economic growth (9% between 2008-2010, according to the IMF), may stall dramatically and undermine the peace process.

In any event, no one wants to annex either the West Bank or Gaza. It is simply economically too risky as long as the Palestinians are totally dependent on outside support for continuation of basic operations (whether it comes from the US or the Arab League).



Most Respectfully,
R

The remainder, Gaza and the West Bank, are really sitting on "unimproved ground" with a "derelict indigenous population" that infests the land with no real economic or industrial potential.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHBwE0cx5dQ]Gaza 2011 - your next travel destination - YouTube[/ame]

And that proves what exactly?

It proves that Rocco posted a load of crap.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y4tRU2J0c4]Gazans build cemetery for closed factories - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Hossfly]

Gaza 2011 - your next travel destination - YouTube

And that proves what exactly?

It proves that Rocco posted a load of crap.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y4tRU2J0c4]Gazans build cemetery for closed factories - YouTube[/ame]

Tinnie never likes what Rocco has to say although I think Rocco is one of the most respected posters on this forum and really seems to know his stuff, unlike Tinnie who sounds like he is reporting for Hamas and all the terrorist gangs in Gaza. Naturally Tinnie would never reported on what his friends are doing when it comes to terrorist training camps.

Hamas Bulldozes World Heritage Site to Make Way For Terror Training Camp ? The Truth About Hamas - by the IDF

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

I'm sure that many of you recognize the landscape. Yet, from these pictures, one might think it is just a wonderful little town. But, I'm here to tell you, Baghdad is a really dirty, filthy little place.

And that proves what exactly?

It proves that Rocco posted a load of crap.

(PHOTOs)

That beautiful scene is the Tigris River. It is basically an open sewer. It is doubtful you could find a more contaminated water source for a thousand miles in any direction. Those streets are filled with rubbish and trash.

You're looking at a town with no real reliable electricity, getting clean water is a little more difficult.

Pictures can fool you.

v/r
R