See What Tax Cuts For The Wealthy Has Caused:

[The T]

They want the workers to share in the profit the owner makes.
When the workers have not one cent at risk, have not invested a penny in the business, can leave at any time, work a set schedule, have paid vacations, paid holidays, sick days when they get paid and extensive retirement health and other benefits.
NONE of which the owner has.
If the owner does not work he does not get paid.

An owner has to work only if he's self-employed.

Someone who owns - say, a million shares of Exxon - gets paid whether he works or not.

So?

Agreed. So what.

 

[Sundial]

They want the workers to share in the profit the owner makes.
When the workers have not one cent at risk, have not invested a penny in the business, can leave at any time, work a set schedule, have paid vacations, paid holidays, sick days when they get paid and extensive retirement health and other benefits.
NONE of which the owner has.
If the owner does not work he does not get paid.

An owner has to work only if he's self-employed.

Someone who owns - say, a million shares of Exxon - gets paid whether he works or not.

And they have nothing at risk owning those shares?
And everyone that owns shares in corporations does no work evaluating where and when to invest?
And what did they do to buy those shares?
The shares I own I worked hard to own them and continue to work hard evaluating where and what to invest in.
Few stockholders receive dividends. Most stocks pay no dividends as it is the gain of the price of the stock is what the investor is looking for.
Most investments require hard work. The myth is that ownership is "EASY".
No way.

Fortunately, it's the kind of hard work you can do at the golf course.

 

[Sundial]

Privilege is not sharing in the profits.
That is discretion.
Under your theory a business that loses $$ allocates that amongst the workers.

You don't know what my theory is, as far as how a business SHOULD be organized. All I'm presenting here is an observation about the way it IS organized. The ownership of the products does not go to those who do the work. That is a fact.



Not exactly. The implication of that last sentence is that we have uneducated workers competing with educated ones. But we don't; we have uneducated workers competing with even less-educated ones. The reason they can't compete isn't a lack of education but an inability to work for what would be starvation wages in the U.S.

But the point, which you seem to have missed, is that collectively employers DO have some control over wages and some ability to push them down. A lot of that comes from the ability to manipulate the government.

No one ever arranges the cost of labor amongst competitors.

The government does. And business pulls the government's puppet-strings.

Owners make the decision on what best fits their needs, wants, desires and whatever and that is what SHOULD happen all the time.
How can you make a blanket statement on how a business "should be organized" when you do not have a clue what that business does, hires or desires?
The minimum wage does more harm to lower wages than anything. Some folks are willing to work for LESS than the minimum wage and some folks ARE NOT WORTH the minimum wage.
There are plenty of skilled labor jobs available NOW: HVAC, plumbing, oil drilling equilment maintenance, natural gas exploration jobs, engineering jobs of all kinds, medical testing and maintenance jobs, tool and die, auto mechanics, small engine repair, computer repair.
Tens of millions of jobs.
And NO ONE that is unemployed wants to re-train to get them.

Why is it working people are obligated to do what's best for the rich, but the rich are obligated only to do what's best for themselves?

And why is it that the rich are "worth" whatever they can get, but minimum wage workers are worth even less than that?

 

[Sundial]

You don't know what my theory is, as far as how a business SHOULD be organized. All I'm presenting here is an observation about the way it IS organized. The ownership of the products does not go to those who do the work. That is a fact.



Not exactly. The implication of that last sentence is that we have uneducated workers competing with educated ones. But we don't; we have uneducated workers competing with even less-educated ones. The reason they can't compete isn't a lack of education but an inability to work for what would be starvation wages in the U.S.

But the point, which you seem to have missed, is that collectively employers DO have some control over wages and some ability to push them down. A lot of that comes from the ability to manipulate the government.



The government does. And business pulls the government's puppet-strings.

It's not true that American workers can't compete. They do, and they're among the best (most productive) workers in the world. America exports more goods and services than any other country in the world. (Germany and China are second and third.)

We have a trade deficit, of course - but not because Americans are lazy, or our products are uncompetitive. We have a trade deficit because foreigners want American dollars, and are willing to pay high prices to get them.

They want anyone's dollar and are willing TO WORK HARD to get them.
I agree with you on American productivity.
We have an unemployment problem because Americans are unwilling to train for what is available.
My 3 kids all work. Ages 18, 22 and 25-1 in college and 2 graduates.
We work.

I don't doubt that Chinese people work hard. But the people I was taking about are Chinese central bankers, not workers. The workers don't control the currency.

It's strange you keep disparaging American workers when you - and your kids - are workers yourselves.

 

[daveman]

Capital does not exist.

Funny as Hell to be sure as he types on a computer that can be considered a capital asset...

What a dope.

You hush. Dragon. Has. Spoken.

 

[daveman]

An owner has to work only if he's self-employed.

Someone who owns - say, a million shares of Exxon - gets paid whether he works or not.

And they have nothing at risk owning those shares?
And everyone that owns shares in corporations does no work evaluating where and when to invest?
And what did they do to buy those shares?
The shares I own I worked hard to own them and continue to work hard evaluating where and what to invest in.
Few stockholders receive dividends. Most stocks pay no dividends as it is the gain of the price of the stock is what the investor is looking for.
Most investments require hard work. The myth is that ownership is "EASY".
No way.

Fortunately, it's the kind of hard work you can do at the golf course.

 

[daveman]

Why is it working people are obligated to do what's best for the rich, but the rich are obligated only to do what's best for themselves?

And why is it that the rich are "worth" whatever they can get, but minimum wage workers are worth even less than that?

You do know poor people can become rich, right?

 

[Gadawg73]

An owner has to work only if he's self-employed.

Someone who owns - say, a million shares of Exxon - gets paid whether he works or not.

And they have nothing at risk owning those shares?
And everyone that owns shares in corporations does no work evaluating where and when to invest?
And what did they do to buy those shares?
The shares I own I worked hard to own them and continue to work hard evaluating where and what to invest in.
Few stockholders receive dividends. Most stocks pay no dividends as it is the gain of the price of the stock is what the investor is looking for.
Most investments require hard work. The myth is that ownership is "EASY".
No way.

Fortunately, it's the kind of hard work you can do at the golf course.

Or at Playacar where I spend a lot of my time. The Riu Palace is my home away from home for many weeks every year.
BECAUSE I WORKED MY ASS OFF FOR IT.
Something most Americans do not strive for anymore.
Entitlement is what most Americans have these days.
They believe they should have what I have WITHOUT EARNING IT OR RISKING A PENNY.
**** them. They are moochers.

 

[Gadawg73]

Why is it working people are obligated to do what's best for the rich, but the rich are obligated only to do what's best for themselves?

And why is it that the rich are "worth" whatever they can get, but minimum wage workers are worth even less than that?

You do know poor people can become rich, right?

Post of the year so far Dave. Come December it will still be post of the year.

 

[Gadawg73]

It's not true that American workers can't compete. They do, and they're among the best (most productive) workers in the world. America exports more goods and services than any other country in the world. (Germany and China are second and third.)

We have a trade deficit, of course - but not because Americans are lazy, or our products are uncompetitive. We have a trade deficit because foreigners want American dollars, and are willing to pay high prices to get them.

They want anyone's dollar and are willing TO WORK HARD to get them.
I agree with you on American productivity.
We have an unemployment problem because Americans are unwilling to train for what is available.
My 3 kids all work. Ages 18, 22 and 25-1 in college and 2 graduates.
We work.

I don't doubt that Chinese people work hard. But the people I was taking about are Chinese central bankers, not workers. The workers don't control the currency.

It's strange you keep disparaging American workers when you - and your kids - are workers yourselves.

I do not diaparage anyone.
Chinese bankers do not have shit to do with anything here.

 

[daveman]

Why is it working people are obligated to do what's best for the rich, but the rich are obligated only to do what's best for themselves?

And why is it that the rich are "worth" whatever they can get, but minimum wage workers are worth even less than that?

You do know poor people can become rich, right?

Post of the year so far Dave. Come December it will still be post of the year.

Thank you very much.

The class warriors must think this is India, where everyone is born into a caste and can never alter their circumstances.

Of course, this can be a symptom of laziness and entitlement, not wanting to work for anything.

 

[Gadawg73]

You do know poor people can become rich, right?

Post of the year so far Dave. Come December it will still be post of the year.

Thank you very much.

The class warriors must think this is India, where everyone is born into a caste and can never alter their circumstances.

Of course, this can be a symptom of laziness and entitlement, not wanting to work for anything.

And add in slow, semi ADD redneck that took 7 years to get their BBAand took 30 years to build their businesses can also become wealthy.
That would be me. And along the way I learned to respect everyone, got rid of all my prejudices and know that conservative fiscal policies always create oppurtunity.

 

[Sundial]

They want anyone's dollar and are willing TO WORK HARD to get them.
I agree with you on American productivity.
We have an unemployment problem because Americans are unwilling to train for what is available.
My 3 kids all work. Ages 18, 22 and 25-1 in college and 2 graduates.
We work.

I don't doubt that Chinese people work hard. But the people I was taking about are Chinese central bankers, not workers. The workers don't control the currency.

It's strange you keep disparaging American workers when you - and your kids - are workers yourselves.

I do not diaparage anyone.
Chinese bankers do not have shit to do with anything here.

The reason it matters is that the Chinese central bank controls the amount of Chinese currency in the world. When they make more of it, its price goes down. When they use it to buy dollars, the price of dollars goes up. Expensive dollars and cheap yuan makes Chinese stuff cheap for us, and American stuff expensive for them. The trade deficit is not because American workers are lazy, or overpaid, or can't compete. It's because of the actions of the Chinese central bank.

 

[Gadawg73]

You don't know what my theory is, as far as how a business SHOULD be organized. All I'm presenting here is an observation about the way it IS organized. The ownership of the products does not go to those who do the work. That is a fact.



Not exactly. The implication of that last sentence is that we have uneducated workers competing with educated ones. But we don't; we have uneducated workers competing with even less-educated ones. The reason they can't compete isn't a lack of education but an inability to work for what would be starvation wages in the U.S.

But the point, which you seem to have missed, is that collectively employers DO have some control over wages and some ability to push them down. A lot of that comes from the ability to manipulate the government.



The government does. And business pulls the government's puppet-strings.

Owners make the decision on what best fits their needs, wants, desires and whatever and that is what SHOULD happen all the time.
How can you make a blanket statement on how a business "should be organized" when you do not have a clue what that business does, hires or desires?
The minimum wage does more harm to lower wages than anything. Some folks are willing to work for LESS than the minimum wage and some folks ARE NOT WORTH the minimum wage.
There are plenty of skilled labor jobs available NOW: HVAC, plumbing, oil drilling equilment maintenance, natural gas exploration jobs, engineering jobs of all kinds, medical testing and maintenance jobs, tool and die, auto mechanics, small engine repair, computer repair.
Tens of millions of jobs.
And NO ONE that is unemployed wants to re-train to get them.

Why is it working people are obligated to do what's best for the rich, but the rich are obligated only to do what's best for themselves?

And why is it that the rich are "worth" whatever they can get, but minimum wage workers are worth even less than that?

Everyone that I know that is rich is a working person.
They work twice as hard as almost everyone else.
Being poor is a life style choice for an adult.
No one is obligated to do a damn thing for anyone.
We need minimum wage workers. Someone has to say "do you want fries with that?".
Everyone is able to get what they can get.
Go get it.
No cry babies.

 

[Dragon]

Capital does not exist.

Proof that you didn't get it.

I wonder if Britpat does?

 

[Gadawg73]

I don't doubt that Chinese people work hard. But the people I was taking about are Chinese central bankers, not workers. The workers don't control the currency.

It's strange you keep disparaging American workers when you - and your kids - are workers yourselves.

I do not diaparage anyone.
Chinese bankers do not have shit to do with anything here.

The reason it matters is that the Chinese central bank controls the amount of Chinese currency in the world. When they make more of it, its price goes down. When they use it to buy dollars, the price of dollars goes up. Expensive dollars and cheap yuan makes Chinese stuff cheap for us, and American stuff expensive for them. The trade deficit is not because American workers are lazy, or overpaid, or can't compete. It's because of the actions of the Chinese central bank.

Man, have you got it ass backwards.
The dollar has been falling for years. When the dollar falls it makes it cheaper for others to buy our goods.
The dollar is NOT expensive against the Chinese yuan. Maybe a little better than it was as China now has to set up factories in Viet Nam and elsewhere to handle their massive capacity. But no where near as strong as it was years ago.
The trade deficit is because workers over seas perform menial dumb ass labor jobs for $10 an hour that American workers demanded $30 an hour + benefits for.
Dude, you left out the massive interest payments we pay on our debt in your analysis. Those payments overshadow and dwarf any influence the Chinese banks have on us.
And guess who the #3 creditor is?
The Chinese GOVERNMENT.

 

[Sundial]

Owners make the decision on what best fits their needs, wants, desires and whatever and that is what SHOULD happen all the time.
How can you make a blanket statement on how a business "should be organized" when you do not have a clue what that business does, hires or desires?
The minimum wage does more harm to lower wages than anything. Some folks are willing to work for LESS than the minimum wage and some folks ARE NOT WORTH the minimum wage.
There are plenty of skilled labor jobs available NOW: HVAC, plumbing, oil drilling equilment maintenance, natural gas exploration jobs, engineering jobs of all kinds, medical testing and maintenance jobs, tool and die, auto mechanics, small engine repair, computer repair.
Tens of millions of jobs.
And NO ONE that is unemployed wants to re-train to get them.

Why is it working people are obligated to do what's best for the rich, but the rich are obligated only to do what's best for themselves?

And why is it that the rich are "worth" whatever they can get, but minimum wage workers are worth even less than that?

Everyone that I know that is rich is a working person.
They work twice as hard as almost everyone else.
Being poor is a life style choice for an adult.
No one is obligated to do a damn thing for anyone.
We need minimum wage workers. Someone has to say "do you want fries with that?".
Everyone is able to get what they can get.
Go get it.
No cry babies.

I don't think you know what "wealthy" means.

And I still don't see why you have so much contempt for working people, when you claim to be one yourself.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If the tax cuts were -so- terrible. why does most of the left give The Obama a pass for forcing the Democrats to extend them?

 

[Gadawg73]

Why is it working people are obligated to do what's best for the rich, but the rich are obligated only to do what's best for themselves?

And why is it that the rich are "worth" whatever they can get, but minimum wage workers are worth even less than that?

Everyone that I know that is rich is a working person.
They work twice as hard as almost everyone else.
Being poor is a life style choice for an adult.
No one is obligated to do a damn thing for anyone.
We need minimum wage workers. Someone has to say "do you want fries with that?".
Everyone is able to get what they can get.
Go get it.
No cry babies.

I don't think you know what "wealthy" means.

And I still don't see why you have so much contempt for working people, when you claim to be one yourself.

I respect all working people.
I have no respect for baby ass whiny bitches that are jealous and envious of others that have more than them.
I know what wealthy means.
I R 1.

 

[daveman]

Capital does not exist.

Proof that you didn't get it.

I wonder if Britpat does?

Oh, I got it, all right.

You're an idiot.