Sea rises, island disappears

[Old Rocks]

Lordy, lordy, why don't you advertise your lack of reading abilities. Anyone that reads that thread can see that you totally misinterpreted what the AMS said the requirements were.

 

[Old Rocks]

The logical fallicy that an unknown poster would know more than the head of the Goddard Institute for Space Studies, Dr. James Hansen.

That the poster would know more than all the Scientific Societies in the world, more than all the National Academies of Science in the world, more than all the major Universities in the world.

That said poster would be so logical as to never present her evidence on the issue, just stating that "I am a scientist, so I know more about that, and am more logical than you are. Even when I am in disagreement with 99% of the other scientists in the world."

As for the Latin. It is not a logician's debate, it is evidence that we are leaving a dangerously damaged world for our descendents.

Yeah you don't know more than Hansen... Nice of you to admit that....

Seriously socks, the guy has already been brought before congress over some of his behavior and policies. And here you are calling me irrefutable...

Keep chanting the mantra you dedicated algorian you...

Silly little boy, he has been brought before Congress to testify, as the head of the very prestigious Goddard Institute for Space Studies, NASA, concerning global warming.

Dr. James Hansen: Twenty Years Later: Tipping Points Near on Global Warming

Today I testified to Congress about global warming, 20 years after my June 23, 1988 testimony, which alerted the public that global warming was underway. There are striking similarities between then and now, but one big difference.

Again a wide gap has developed between what is understood about global warming by the relevant scientific community and what is known by policymakers and the public. Now, as then, frank assessment of scientific data yields conclusions that are shocking to the body politic. Now, as then, I can assert that these conclusions have a certainty exceeding 99 percent.

 

[gslack]

The logical fallicy that an unknown poster would know more than the head of the Goddard Institute for Space Studies, Dr. James Hansen.

That the poster would know more than all the Scientific Societies in the world, more than all the National Academies of Science in the world, more than all the major Universities in the world.

That said poster would be so logical as to never present her evidence on the issue, just stating that "I am a scientist, so I know more about that, and am more logical than you are. Even when I am in disagreement with 99% of the other scientists in the world."

As for the Latin. It is not a logician's debate, it is evidence that we are leaving a dangerously damaged world for our descendents.

Yeah you don't know more than Hansen... Nice of you to admit that....

Seriously socks, the guy has already been brought before congress over some of his behavior and policies. And here you are calling me irrefutable...

Keep chanting the mantra you dedicated algorian you...

Silly little boy, he has been brought before Congress to testify, as the head of the very prestigious Goddard Institute for Space Studies, NASA, concerning global warming.

Dr. James Hansen: Twenty Years Later: Tipping Points Near on Global Warming

Today I testified to Congress about global warming, 20 years after my June 23, 1988 testimony, which alerted the public that global warming was underway. There are striking similarities between then and now, but one big difference.

Again a wide gap has developed between what is understood about global warming by the relevant scientific community and what is known by policymakers and the public. Now, as then, frank assessment of scientific data yields conclusions that are shocking to the body politic. Now, as then, I can assert that these conclusions have a certainty exceeding 99 percent.

Nah not that one he appeared more recently... I will look for it and bring it up tomorrow... remind me..

 

[Si modo]

I see.

And where is the strawman? ....

Here it is, yet again.

I see. I present the information from real physicists, and your only answer is that it is a logical fallicy.

....

....

So where is the strawman in those statements. ....

Here's one of several:

I see. The logical fallicy in accepting that physicists would know more about how GHGs function than names on a internet message board.

....

 

[saveliberty]

For crying out loud Old Rocks. The sea level is DROPPING:

"The full 6 year dataset from January 31, 2004 to January 31, 2010 of the ARGO global network of 3198 free drifting ocean floats with GPS is now available (data first became available from this program in 2004-see float locations here and shown below). Using the Pacific Marine Atlas program to plot data from the entire network shows a slight downtrend in Sea Height over the past six years (January 31, 2004 - January 31, 2010) using data from the entire network:

The graph from the Pacific Marine Atlas was digitized using the VistaMetrix program to extract data for purposes of determining a linear trendline. The trendline shows the rate of global sea level decrease to be -.1mm/year or-10mm/century."

Climate Change Fraud - Global Sea Level Decrease 2004-2010

 

[Old Rocks]

No links to your BS?

The sea level rise since 1993 has been 3.26 mm per year.

Climate Change: Key Indicators

And CO2 level is at 389 ppm at present.

 

[Old Rocks]

Where the water came from;

Climate Change: IMAGES OF CHANGE

 

[Old Rocks]

The present CO2 equivelant is well over the 450 ppm 'limit'. And the average rise of 3.26 per year since 1993 is an average of an accelerating rate.

NASA: "Earth in Peril" - Several metre sea level rise this century | Beyond Zero Emissions

25 June 07 - For immediate Release - Melbourne, Australia - Beyond Zero Emissions

Sea levels will rise by several metres by the end of the century due to rapidly increasing greenhouse gas concentrations, according to research by a group of esteemed international scientists. Led by James Hansen from NASA's Goddard Institute, the group warns that the Earth is 'perilously' close to entering a new era of dangerous runaway climate change.

The peer-reviewed paper predicts that humans have less than ten years to make substantial reductions in global greenhouse gas emissions to avoid dangerous climate change. The West Antarctic ice sheet in particular is dangerously sensitive, with the potential to add over five metres to global sea levels within two centuries when collapsed.

"This paper spells devastation for Australia," said Matthew Wright, lead spokesman for Beyond Zero Emissions. "The impact of the predicted sea level rise will have cataclysmic effects for the millions of Australians in coastal communities around the nation. The events in New South Wales recently are just a small taste of what's to come."

Global greenhouse gas concentrations have increased by a third in the past two hundred years, and currently sit at 430 ppm CO2e (carbon dioxide equivalent). Hansen has presented evidence that shows the planet has already entered 'serious' climate change conditions, which will tip into 'dangerous' at approximately 450 ppm CO2e.

 

[Old Rocks]

Now Liberty, see the links? See the links within the article? Links to real scientific sources, not political think tanks. That is how you post real information.

Visual depictions of Sea Level Rise

Both tidal station data and altimeter data show decadal and shorter term variations in the rate of rise, but there is a significant weight of evidence of a recent acceleration in rate of sea level rise towards the end of the last century (Jevrejeva 2008, Merrifield 2009, Vermeer 2009), whilst the “slowing down” reported by some observers (around 2008) has proved short lived (judging from 2009/2010 data).

It has also now become possible to attempt to “close” the sea level budget, which has components of reported thermal expansion of the volume of water due to increase in accumulated heat energy, and also an increased component from melting ice from land based sources. Again refinements and corrections of recent datasets from GRACE (with GPS) and ARGO resolve previous and relatively recent difficulties, so that the sum of these climate-related contributions (2.85 ± 0.35 mm per year) is now comparable with the altimetry-based sea level rise (3.3 ± 0.4 mm per year) over the 1993 to 2007 period (Cazenave 2010, reporting a consensus of the Ocean Observing Community).

Using these datasets it is estimated that around 30% of the observed rate of rise over the satellite altimeter time period is due to ocean thermal expansion and 55% results from accumulated melting land ice. There is evidence that the land ice melt contribution has increased significantly over the past five years.

 

[Old Rocks]

I see.

And where is the strawman? ....

Here it is, yet again.

I see. I present the information from real physicists, and your only answer is that it is a logical fallicy.

....

....

So where is the strawman in those statements. ....

Here's one of several:

I see. The logical fallicy in accepting that physicists would know more about how GHGs function than names on a internet message board.

....

Lordy, lordy. I have read the articles the physicists have written. All I have read from you is BS concerning supposed logic. Come on, Si, present some science. Are you capable of that? Do you know how to present science?

 

[Si modo]

I see.

And where is the strawman? ....

Here it is, yet again.
Here's one of several:

I see. The logical fallicy in accepting that physicists would know more about how GHGs function than names on a internet message board.

....

Lordy, lordy. I have read the articles the physicists have written. All I have read from you is BS concerning supposed logic. Come on, Si, present some science. Are you capable of that? Do you know how to present science?

What part of logic being a requirement to even discuss science with someone has you so very confused?


The logic of the OP has already been demonstrated as faulty. QED. (Oops, sorry...that's more of that pesky Latin.)

 

[Old Rocks]

Hmm....... It was a very low island, one that was not permanent in any case. However, since the sea has been rising at the rate of 3.26 mm per year since 1993, that certainly did not help the island. Would it have disappeared in any case? Perhaps.

However, that does not change the fact that the sea level is rising, and the rate of rising is accelerating.

 

[Old Rocks]

By the way, Si, there is no amount of logic that will convince people like yourself of the validity of any science that is in conflict with the ideology through which you view the world. Your ideology is far more important to you than any reality that science can demonstrate to you.

 

[MaggieMae]

The logical fallicy that an unknown poster would know more than the head of the Goddard Institute for Space Studies, Dr. James Hansen.

That the poster would know more than all the Scientific Societies in the world, more than all the National Academies of Science in the world, more than all the major Universities in the world.

That said poster would be so logical as to never present her evidence on the issue, just stating that "I am a scientist, so I know more about that, and am more logical than you are. Even when I am in disagreement with 99% of the other scientists in the world."

As for the Latin. It is not a logician's debate, it is evidence that we are leaving a dangerously damaged world for our descendents.

Yeah you don't know more than Hansen... Nice of you to admit that....

Seriously socks, the guy has already been brought before congress over some of his behavior and policies. And here you are calling me irrefutable...

Keep chanting the mantra you dedicated algorian you...

So you're smarter than the guy who has spent 20 years studying climate change? Yowza. And here you are posting on a lil' ol' message board.

 

[MaggieMae]

I see. I present the information from real physicists, and your only answer is that it is a logical fallicy.

....

Still a strawman, but it's a new strawman. I guess that's something.

Maybe you should start sending up flares whenever you're actually prepared to "logically" discuss anything (anything at all), instead of just tossing out insults (as if they make your case for you).

 

[Si modo]

I see. I present the information from real physicists, and your only answer is that it is a logical fallicy.

....

Still a strawman, but it's a new strawman. I guess that's something.

Maybe you should start sending up flares whenever you're actually prepared to "logically" discuss anything (anything at all), instead of just tossing out insults (as if they make your case for you).

Ah. In your mind, pointing out logical fallacies is 'insulting'.

 

[MaggieMae]

I see.

And where is the strawman? ....

Here it is, yet again.

I see. I present the information from real physicists, and your only answer is that it is a logical fallicy.

....

....

So where is the strawman in those statements. ....

Here's one of several:

I see. The logical fallicy in accepting that physicists would know more about how GHGs function than names on a internet message board.

....

 

[Old Rocks]

A lot more than just twenty years. And his resume include research on planetary atmospheres, not just the Earth's atmosphere.

NASA GISS: James E. Hansen

Education:

B.A., Physics and Mathematics, 1963, University of Iowa
M.S., Astronomy, 1965, University of Iowa
Ph.D., Physics, 1967, University of Iowa
Publications

Go to bibliography
Research Interests:
As a college student in Iowa, I was attracted to science and research by James Van Allen's space science program in the physics and astronomy department. Since then, it only took me a decade or so to realize that the most exciting planetary research involves trying to understand the climate change on earth that will result from anthropogenic changes of the atmospheric composition.

One of my research interests is radiative transfer in planetary atmospheres, especially interpreting remote sounding of the earth's atmosphere and surface from satellites. Such data, appropriately analyzed, may provide one of our most effective ways to monitor and study global change on the earth. The hardest part is trying to influence the nature of the measurements obtained, so that the key information can be obtained.

I am also interested in the development and application of global numerical models for the purpose of understanding current climate trends and projecting humans' potential impacts on climate. The scientific excitement in comparing theory with data, and developing some understanding of global changes that are occurring, is what makes all the other stuff worth it.

 

[Si modo]

I see.

And where is the strawman? ....

Here it is, yet again.
Here's one of several:

I see. The logical fallicy in accepting that physicists would know more about how GHGs function than names on a internet message board.

....

Would you feel better if I were embarassed for you?

 

[saveliberty]

No links to your BS?

The sea level rise since 1993 has been 3.26 mm per year.

Climate Change: Key Indicators

And CO2 level is at 389 ppm at present.

Yes there is a link and you have been told three times now it is at post #30. The data was collected from 2004-10 by 3255 floats around the world's oceans. These floats have three dimensional GPS systems to specifically record sea level. Their results are: 1mm per year DROP in sea level.