Schools no longer using "Pledge Of Allegiance", do you care why?

[RKMBrown]

First off, we were talking a hypothetical situation wherein it was not discussed at all whether or not there was honest/in good faith discussion before my daughter was hypothetically disciplined for refusing to pledge -

So, there's that.....

So you do or you don't want to have an honest/in good faith discussion prior to your daughter being hypothetically disciplined for refusing to pledge? I was pretty sure you said you don't want to discuss that part of this issue. Or maybe I don't understand what you mean by "doesnt interest me in the least."

 

[Katzndogz]

If you don't teach children loyalty and respect for the country, can you really complain when they choose loyalty and respect for some other country?

 

[G.T.]

What doesnt interest me are your two questions.

The discussion between me and the teacher regarding a forcible pledge on my daughter and then her subsequent discipline and my subsequent suing has nothing to do with that at all with a discussion between me and you and your two questions. I dont know why youre conflating my hypothetical situation with your question about school vouchers or what the hell my engaging your two questions or not has to do with my hypothetical discussion or hypothetical good faith argument with the teacher before suing or not. Zero degrees below nadda. Conflating those two things happened - but i didnt do it.

 

[G.T.]

Pledging allegiance isnt teaching loyalty. Actions teach loyalty, not dogma and chants. Completely ridiculous.

 

[RKMBrown]

If you don't teach children loyalty and respect for the country, can you really complain when they choose loyalty and respect for some other country?

Define loyalty and respect for the country or some other country.

I have respect of an ally for England. I feel they earned it. I have respect of a foe for Russia, I feel it is required of foes who are armed with nuclear weapons.

I have some measure of loyalty to my country but I have no respect for these two political parties or most of our leaders. I do have respect for some of our leaders. But I have no respect or loyalty to this president.

 

[RKMBrown]

What doesnt interest me are your two questions.

The discussion between me and the teacher regarding a forcible pledge on my daughter and then her subsequent discipline and my subsequent suing has nothing to do with that at all with a discussion between me and you and your two questions. I dont know why youre conflating my hypothetical situation with your question about school vouchers or what the hell my engaging your two questions or not has to do with my hypothetical discussion or hypothetical good faith argument with the teacher before suing or not. Zero degrees below nadda. Conflating those two things happened - but i didnt do it.

IOW you are authortarian. You want your cake and you want to eat it. You want things done your way or you will sue. My way we both win, I get to select a school for my kids to go to that has the pledge as written, and you get to select a school for your kids that does not.

 

[G.T.]

No, there you go assuming again.

Demanding rights isnt authoritarian. Taking them is.

And id discuss itnwith the teacher first.

 

[RKMBrown]

No, there you go assuming again.

Demanding rights isnt authoritarian. Taking them is.

And id discuss itnwith the teacher first.

Demanding/Taking which right, my right to choose and fund a school my kids go to such as a school that has the pledge every day with the word god in it, or your right to have a public school provided to you for your benefit with and/or without you funding it that does not force your kids to say the pledge with the word god in it?

In forcing us to fund public schools that adhere to majority decisions, said authoritarian acts are given.

 

[Disir]

Pledge of Allegiance - The Whitest Kids U'Know on IFC - YouTube

Holy crap that's extreme, and brutal...........Awesome job making the point. Forcing groups to repeat or "chant" is the most basic tool of brainwashing. It's why sports teams do it.

It's also how groups make music together, and exercise together, synchronize activities together, etc.

Is being forced to learn the definition of a word, correctly, through rote brainwashing?

Is being forced to learn a song about love, or the history of this country brainwashing?

Is public education brainwashing?

Don't get me wrong I'm all for ending public education, I should be able to send my kids to the school of my choice with my income so I can choose what things I want my kids to be educated and/or brainwashed in. Why should I have to pay for these public brainwashing centers?

This the part where you realize that it sure is brainwashing and you move to derail it.

 

[Disir]

They still use it. In fact, I live in one of those states where it is a mandatory morning ritual (even if every kid sat down).

I am not in agreement with the Under God inserted in to the Pledge. However, there is something that I don't get. Reciting it daily is a form of brainwashing. Abstract thinking doesn't begin until the ages of 12-15. So, basically what I hear people say when they are against the Pledge for under God is that brainwashing is fine.

Way to be like North Korea!

You are ENTIRELY correct about this.

But the discussion to be made should be "under god". Nearly everyone in the world is under a god, except for atheists.

Should we ignore that we were born as a Christian Country just to allow atheists to dominate our process? The entire discussion allows everyone in a religion except for atheists. Because the term "god" does not specify which god........

Do tell about that born as a Christian Country.....

 

[RKMBrown]

Holy crap that's extreme, and brutal...........Awesome job making the point. Forcing groups to repeat or "chant" is the most basic tool of brainwashing. It's why sports teams do it.

It's also how groups make music together, and exercise together, synchronize activities together, etc.

Is being forced to learn the definition of a word, correctly, through rote brainwashing?

Is being forced to learn a song about love, or the history of this country brainwashing?

Is public education brainwashing?

Don't get me wrong I'm all for ending public education, I should be able to send my kids to the school of my choice with my income so I can choose what things I want my kids to be educated and/or brainwashed in. Why should I have to pay for these public brainwashing centers?

This the part where you realize that it sure is brainwashing and you move to derail it.

Nearly all forms of communication include forms of brainwashing. The term is overused. Wasted away again in Margarita-vile. Captain Morgan commercials. Coke adds life. Oh say can you see by the dawns early light... Get your homework done or no desert.
It's all brainwashing.

 

[Disir]

It's also how groups make music together, and exercise together, synchronize activities together, etc.

Is being forced to learn the definition of a word, correctly, through rote brainwashing?

Is being forced to learn a song about love, or the history of this country brainwashing?

Is public education brainwashing?

Don't get me wrong I'm all for ending public education, I should be able to send my kids to the school of my choice with my income so I can choose what things I want my kids to be educated and/or brainwashed in. Why should I have to pay for these public brainwashing centers?

This the part where you realize that it sure is brainwashing and you move to derail it.

Nearly all forms of communication include forms of brainwashing. The term is overused. Wasted away again in Margarita-vile. Captain Morgan commercials. Coke adds life. Oh say can you see by the dawns early light... Get your homework done or no desert.
It's all brainwashing.

No, the daily recitation is brainwashing.

 

[Vandalshandle]

They still use it. In fact, I live in one of those states where it is a mandatory morning ritual (even if every kid sat down).

I am not in agreement with the Under God inserted in to the Pledge. However, there is something that I don't get. Reciting it daily is a form of brainwashing. Abstract thinking doesn't begin until the ages of 12-15. So, basically what I hear people say when they are against the Pledge for under God is that brainwashing is fine.

Way to be like North Korea!

The US is the only country that has a pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.

It was written by a socialist who was also trying to drum up business for selling flags. It worked. They put one in every classroom in America. It is just a rote jumble of words that really carries no message, except, perhaps to Texans, who recite the "One nation, under god, indivisible...", right before they start ranting about succession from the USA (not that they GET the message)

 

[Disir]

They still use it. In fact, I live in one of those states where it is a mandatory morning ritual (even if every kid sat down).

I am not in agreement with the Under God inserted in to the Pledge. However, there is something that I don't get. Reciting it daily is a form of brainwashing. Abstract thinking doesn't begin until the ages of 12-15. So, basically what I hear people say when they are against the Pledge for under God is that brainwashing is fine.

Way to be like North Korea!

The US is the only country that has a pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.

It was written by a socialist who was also trying to drum up business for selling flags. It worked. They put one in every classroom in America. It is just a rote jumble of words that really carries no message, except, perhaps to Texans, who recite the "One nation, under god, indivisible...", right before they start ranting about succession from the USA (not that they GET the message)

Bellamy was a minister. A socialist and a minister. And it was not intended to be recited daily.

It does carry a message. If it didn't then you wouldn't find so many whacknuts defending it. Gee the Filipino pledge exists.


FILIPINO PLEDGE TO THE FLAG

Ako ay Pilipino
Buong katapatang nanunumpa
Sa watawat ng Pilipinas
At sa bansang kanyang sinasagisag
Na may dangal, katarungan at kalayaan
Na pinakikilos ng sambayanang
Maka-Diyos
Maka-tao
Makakalikasan at
Makabansa.



ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF PLEDGE

I am a Filipino
I pledge allegiance
To the flag of the Philippines
And to the country it represents
With honor, justice and freedom
That is put in motion by a nation that is
For God, humanity,
Nature and
Country.
http://tagaloglang.com/The-Philippines/National-Symbols/filipino-pledge-of-allegiance-to-flag.html

South Korean pledge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance_to_the_Flag_of_South_Korea

 

[Vandalshandle]

That's the first I heard of the Pilipino pledge. I thought they pledged allegiance to MacArthur.

 

[Disir]

That's the first I heard of the Pilipino pledge. I thought they pledged allegiance to MacArthur.

Same thing.

Both of the above are modeled on the US.

 

[Pogo]

Why 'Under God' Was Added To The Pledge Of Allegiance in the face of "Free Religion", the catch, no "god" is specified..

Read more: Under God Added To Pledge Of Allegiance - Business Insider


"Two years later, on Flag Day again, Eisenhower also made "In God We Trust" our nation's official motto. The man must have loved his new religion."


So the Left is openly blamed for "taking god out of Government" but a little research openly pins them for putting god into Government which does not line up with Freedom of Religion. ..NO Religion should be forced on ANYONE. Or says the Constitution..

Can you tell us which religion the phrase "under God" establishes?

Well Muslim, Judism, and Christianity all refer to the same god. Hindu a different god. Buddists don't have a god. Atheists are many camps, they are god, their government is god, there is no such thing as a god, etc..

But it does not establish a religion it merely points out that our nation is not above god or even on an equal plane with god. It means it's ok to put your god before your country. At least that's how I take it.

Interesting. That never occurred to me. I always figured it was a "God's on our side" flame.

So you're saying the Pledge is a religious incantation?

 

[Pogo]

They believe that the nation is inherently evil and should not exist. Or if it exists, the country must do penance every day. What you are looking at is the American equivalent of Ashura, but on a national level.

Interesting the propensity of most conservatives to seek to compel conformity and fear expressions of individual liberty and dissent.

The pledge doesnt stiffle free expression, it is only like about sixty seconds out of their day at most. Just because a nation has symbols is not a bad thing. If you want to tear a nation down, you start dismantleing their symbols and you start from there. I think that is documented in the game plan isnt it?

A symbol is one thing. Symbols are everywhere, in every culture, and they serve constructive purposes.

A fetish is quite another thing. "I pledge allegiance to the flag" -- a piece of cloth. Not a country; a piece of cloth.

That is a little weird. And outside of our former colony the Philippines, we're the only country on earth that engages in this kinky stuff.

 

[September]

I pledge Allegience to nothing other than to myself and my Gods, to the Earth and to Nature, and to those whom I have chosen to love.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Why 'Under God' Was Added To The Pledge Of Allegiance in the face of "Free Religion", the catch, no "god" is specified..

Read more: Under God Added To Pledge Of Allegiance - Business Insider


"Two years later, on Flag Day again, Eisenhower also made "In God We Trust" our nation's official motto. The man must have loved his new religion."


So the Left is openly blamed for "taking god out of Government" but a little research openly pins them for putting god into Government which does not line up with Freedom of Religion. ..NO Religion should be forced on ANYONE. Or says the Constitution..

Can you tell us which religion the phrase "under God" establishes?

Well Muslim, Judism, and Christianity all refer to the same god. Hindu a different god. Buddists don't have a god. Atheists are many camps, they are god, their government is god, there is no such thing as a god, etc..

But it does not establish a religion it merely points out that our nation is not above god or even on an equal plane with god. It means it's ok to put your god before your country. At least that's how I take it.

Well, maybe we need to dress those little heathens in matching brown shirts and have them march to the playground.