Schiavo Autopsy Released - No Abuse

[archangel]

I'm all for new technology and methods. There have been many people freed from prison because of the advances of DNA testing. I applaud anything that can be used to prove innocence or guilt.

Let's hope those cases are looked at due to factual evidence and not just heresay and people's opinions.

"Theory without fact is hypothesis...fact without theory is chaos" hypothesis being a educated guess(opinion) well what we have in the "Shaivo" case is chaos...opinion being the arbitrator of theory....

 

[IControlThePast]

The examiners were tainted...too close to the case..."territorial"
2nd....many neurosugeons have differing opinions on brain function...recovery
3rd....possible new discoveries in medical technology(autopsy) have yet to be discovered...ie:recent DNA advances which opened many old cases!

I assume you mean Neurologists and Interventional Neuroradiologists, because they are the ones who decide the case. They have to tell the Neurosurgeons to operate. Actually man of the Neurologists said she was in a PVS. The only Neurologists that said she wasn't were paid by the Shiavos to testify for them in court.

Possible advances yet to be discovered could prove that innocent people were sent to jail, and that many guilty people went free. Does this mean we shouldn't use our legal system to try criminals right now?

 

[no1tovote4]

If I remember correctly...on the original complaint on fractures by the parents...there was some mention to the original medical report taken on Terri's admittance to the hospital...this document strangely dissappeared...was refused to be released by non other than "Michael"

According to a show I was watching before she finally had died, that supposition was based on one bone density test. Regardless of how it was supposed it happened, broken bones would be evident during an autopsy. They would be able to tell if they had been broken and how they had been treated (poorly or correctly). Since it was simply not evident at all during the autopsy any supposition based on this original misinterpretation is also in error, those who believed in the guilt of Michael based on those bone density tests were, quite simply, factually incorrect.

 

[archangel]

I assume you mean Neurologists and Interventional Neuroradiologists, because they are the ones who decide the case. They have to tell the Neurosurgeons to operate. Actually man of the Neurologists said she was in a PVS. The only Neurologists that said she wasn't were paid by the Shiavos to testify for them in court.

Possible advances yet to be discovered could prove that innocent people were sent to jail, and that many guilty people went free. Does this mean we shouldn't use our legal system to try criminals right now?

all I can say is Michael is not being tried here and now...just opinion,logic and food for thought..
also I was injured on the job some three years ago...my neurosurgeon told my daughter that I would probably never walk again...she told me and I said hell no...well I can walk again...call it a miracle or call it determination...whatever... neurosurgeons do not have a monopoly on human determination...enough said!

 

[nosarcasm]

all I can say is Michael is not being tried here and now...just opinion,logic and food for thought..
also I was injured on the job some three years ago...my neurosurgeon told my daughter that I would probably never walk again...she told me and I said hell no...well I can walk again...call it a miracle or call it determination...whatever... neurosurgeons do not have a monopoly on human determination...enough said!

I am glad you daughter recovered. I always thought this case was
a family fight over who decides for Terry that became ugly and
politicized. In that case we have to depend on the medical community
and judges to make the call who represents Terry.

I thoiught the smear campaign against her husband was apalling and
like it was pointed out in this thread some of the accusations
against him were disproven. Especially that he beat her routinly.

Also they found her brain was severly destroyed as claimed
by her husband and she was technically blind because that portion
of the brain was gone too. This disproves the she reacted to
her parents theory.

Thats why I asked you if you felt like apologizing. Not that you have to
but maybe in light of these developments you should reevaluate where
you got your oppinion on her husband from.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Spade a spade. All of the evidence was entered over a 12 yr ordeal, the family's side lost, hard to deal with but doesn't change the fact. Funny how just a while back people were screaming "where's the autopsy" and now that the autopsy doesn't prove their points of view they move back onto the same old hashed out bullshit.

This was a family matter pure and simple and like it or not Mr. Schiavo was the decision maker. Justice prevailed in this case despite the efforts of liberal Republicans and their weak effort to use the fed judiciary.

Just a question, what would religious zealots have said if a cyanide injection was administered instead of the feeding tube removal? I can tell ya, MURDER! just like they did because they are all hypocrites.

There are those who do not believe in extraordinary measures for killing just as there are those who do not believe in extraordinary measures for keeping them alive.

The autopsy report, if true, only proves that there were no fractures. However, why should we apologize for thinking the husband caused them if there was information out there that suggested the existence of fractures? There are still people who think the two were having marital problems. There are still people who think he was a control freak. There are still people who said he wanted the "b#tch to die".

The autopsy does not prove how or why Terri collapsed.

The autopsy does not prove she was unable to improve years earlier.

The autopsy does not prove that Michael had her best interests in mind.

The autopsy does not prove that the Court system was right.

The autopsy does not prove that it is better to kill the disabled than keep them.

 

[archangel]

I am glad you daughter recovered. I always thought this case was
a family fight over who decides for Terry that became ugly and
politicized. In that case we have to depend on the medical community
and judges to make the call who represents Terry.

I thoiught the smear campaign against her husband was apalling and
like it was pointed out in this thread some of the accusations
against him were disproven. Especially that he beat her routinly.

Also they found her brain was severly destroyed as claimed
by her husband and she was technically blind because that portion
of the brain was gone too. This disproves the she reacted to
her parents theory.

Thats why I asked you if you felt like apologizing. Not that you have to
but maybe in light of these developments you should reevaluate where
you got your oppinion on her husband from.

My daughter recovered from her dads demise just fine...I trained her well...please read the posts before comment..also...there is no evidence that she was blind...the brain can and does re-wire...just because the portion...normally associated with the optical lobes was damaged does not mean the brain did not re-wire...many neurologists differ on brain function and capability....many cases in past decades have been documented where the neurologist could not explain why recovery was made...against all odds and documented theory...one case comes to mind a few years ago where a young black male had surgery to remove over 1/2 of his brain due to disease..he recovered and surprised the neurologists and surgeons on his full and useful recovery...again call it a miracle or call it what you may...the fact remains that medicine is not a perfect science!

 

[nosarcasm]

My daughter recovered from her dads demise just fine...I trained her well...please read the posts before comment..also...there is no evidence that she was blind...the brain can and does re-wire...just because the portion...normally associated with the optical lobes was damaged does not mean the brain did not re-wire...many neurologists differ on brain function and capability....many cases in past decades have been documented where the neurologist could not explain why recovery was made...against all odds and documented theory...one case comes to mind a few years ago where a young black male had surgery to remove over 1/2 of his brain due to disease..he recovered and surprised the neurologists and surgeons on his full and useful recovery...again call it a miracle or call it what you may...the fact remains that medicine is not a perfect science!

The team of doctors that made the autopsy claimed that she was blind. I am
not an expert in the medical field at all so I went with their conclusion.

Sure without being Terry nobody can for sure say what she felt, if she
still had enough working capacity to have understanding and reason.

I am glad I have never been in a situation where I have to make
the call. Matter of fact I better ask my parents what their wishes
are in case anything happens to them.

 

[IControlThePast]

all I can say is Michael is not being tried here and now...just opinion,logic and food for thought..
also I was injured on the job some three years ago...my neurosurgeon told my daughter that I would probably never walk again...she told me and I said hell no...well I can walk again...call it a miracle or call it determination...whatever... neurosurgeons do not have a monopoly on human determination...enough said!

Well determination can conquer almost everything, but do keep in mind the Doctor said "probably" :tng:. I became paralyzed below the waist in my childhood for some unexplainable reason (the doctors think it was because my hyperactive immune system started attacking my own body and it kinda shut down as a defense) and I was told a similar thing, but I recovered and went on to be all state in Soccer.

My daughter recovered from her dads demise just fine...I trained her well...please read the posts before comment..also...there is no evidence that she was blind...the brain can and does re-wire...just because the portion...normally associated with the optical lobes was damaged does not mean the brain did not re-wire...many neurologists differ on brain function and capability....many cases in past decades have been documented where the neurologist could not explain why recovery was made...against all odds and documented theory...one case comes to mind a few years ago where a young black male had surgery to remove over 1/2 of his brain due to disease..he recovered and surprised the neurologists and surgeons on his full and useful recovery...again call it a miracle or call it what you may...the fact remains that medicine is not a perfect science!

The brain can rewire, but Terri's had 15 years to do so, but didn't and actually showed signs on continued degeneration through scans. No PVS patients has ever come back after 15 years. I don't think any has come back past the standard 5 years to keep them alive and try to rewire either. Micheal kept her alive to see if she would do this well beyond the standard PVS expectations before he tried to have her feeding tube removed.

 

[archangel]

Well determination can conquer almost everything, but do keep in mind the Doctor said "probably" :tng:. I became paralyzed below the waist in my childhood for some unexplainable reason (the doctors think it was because my hyperactive immune system started attacking my own body and it kinda shut down as a defense) and I was told a similar thing, but I recovered and went on to be all state in Soccer.



The brain can rewire, but Terri's had 15 years to do so, but didn't and actually showed signs on continued degeneration through scans. No PVS patients has ever come back after 15 years. I don't think any has come back past the standard 5 years to keep them alive and try to rewire either. Micheal kept her alive to see if she would do this well beyond the standard PVS expectations before he tried to have her feeding tube removed.

Your case was not mine or Terri's...my injury was a back injury...infection set in on my spinal cord(staff) a absess formed and had to be removed...damage occurred to the spinal cord...bone and tissue was removed...not a good recovery aspect...but it did occur and I am still improving after 3years...this is not to say there is a definete time frame for everyone... everybody has a different recovery time frame...even neurologist will attest to this...just because the norm says five years or whatever does not make it a definete science...ask any neurologist worth his or her salt...and if ya remember Terri was denied rehab after the first 2years...per her wonderful hubby! :scratch:

 

[wolverine]

Well so much for listening to the facts, the data is out there now, she was a fucking veggie without a shred of a chance for recovery. :alco:

Brilliant.

Take heed OCA, anyone can become a "fucking veggie" at any given time. Car accident, vein pops. I would hope others would show you a little more respect if, God forbid, you were in that state.

 

[IControlThePast]

Your case was not mine or Terri's...my injury was a back injury...infection set in on my spinal cord(staff) a absess formed and had to be removed...damage occurred to the spinal cord...bone and tissue was removed...not a good recovery aspect...but it did occur and I am still improving after 3years...this is not to say there is a definete time frame for everyone... everybody has a different recovery time frame...even neurologist will attest to this...just because the norm says five years or whatever does not make it a definete science...ask any neurologist worth his or her salt...and if ya remember Terri was denied rehab after the first 2years...per her wonderful hubby! :scratch:

Everyone does have a time frame, but how long did it take the Doctors to tell you that you started making progress or start improving? Terri had four years of rigorous therapy, but only showed continued degeneration. This therapy was almost as long as PVS patients are even kept alive. She never showed any progress towards a recovery phase during her 15 years.

 

[archangel]

Everyone does have a time frame, but how long did it take the Doctors to tell you that you started making progress or start improving? Terri had four years of rigorous therapy, but only showed continued degeneration. This therapy was almost as long as PVS patients are even kept alive. She never showed any progress towards a recovery phase during her 15 years.

I spent eight weeks in the hospital and rehab...sent home to fend for self as the workers comp claim would not authorize further care...spent two years in court to receive settlement...did 90% of rehab working with myself...and as for the "Shaivo" rehab...was it not two years of rehab before her hubby cut her off to save the settlement money...this is the jest of the parents complaint...and by the way the lovely attorney who represented Mr.Shaivo was also a board member of the conv/rehab hospital...I do believe they received most of the money set aside for her rehab... :firing:

 

[Gabriella84]

"The brain weighed 615 grams, roughly half of the expected weight of a human brain. ... This damage was irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."

An autopsy of the alleged brain of Tom DeLay would produce the same result.

 

[Mr. P]

An autopsy of the alleged brain of Tom DeLay would produce the same result.

Damn easy to see how you got banned..

 

[archangel]

An autopsy of the alleged brain of Tom DeLay would produce the same result.

Not cool...we were talking about the miss-treatment of a poor soul who was executed for the sake of money...your humor is miss placed in this thread....sorry! :alco:

 

[IControlThePast]

I spent eight weeks in the hospital and rehab...sent home to fend for self as the workers comp claim would not authorize further care...spent two years in court to receive settlement...did 90% of rehab working with myself...and as for the "Shaivo" rehab...was it not two years of rehab before her hubby cut her off to save the settlement money...this is the jest of the parents complaint...and by the way the lovely attorney who represented Mr.Shaivo was also a board member of the conv/rehab hospital...I do believe they received most of the money set aside for her rehab... :firing:

The malpractice suit ended in early 1992. She recieved rehabilitation from 1990-1994, so that's almost two years worth after the settlement, plus two years worth before. The settlement was placed in a third party controlled trust fund to cover only Terri's medical and healthcare costs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Shiavo#Rehabilitation_efforts

So how long exactly was it before you showed any sign of progress? It seems by the timeline you provided almost immediately, and definately less than five years, as was your rewiring example.

 

[Gabriella84]

we were talking about the miss-treatment of a poor soul who was executed for the sake of money

I am sure Daniel Pearl's family feels the same way. Not to mention the families of hundreds of death row prisoners. The majority of whom had non-damanged, functioning brains.

Of course, no one mentions the fact that Tom DeLay pulled the plug of his own father.

 

[Annie]

I am sure Daniel Pearl's family feels the same way. Not to mention the families of hundreds of death row prisoners. The majority of whom had non-damanged, functioning brains.

Of course, no one mentions the fact that Tom DeLay pulled the plug of his own father.

Yeah, we did, you are just fukin clueless. Do a search asshat.

 

[GotZoom]

I am sure Daniel Pearl's family feels the same way. Not to mention the families of hundreds of death row prisoners. The majority of whom had non-damanged, functioning brains.

Of course, no one mentions the fact that Tom DeLay pulled the plug of his own father.

What in the world do Schiavo and Pearl have to do with each other.

You are equating Michael Schiavo to the terrorists who beheaded Daniel?