Save the planet - buy an electric car

[Rigby5]

Only you could come on here, and claim your policies proved a concept, that was already proven over 100 years ago, and then claim others are regressive.

Horsecrap, it was not untill a few years ago that we finally got a commercially viable electric car.

Tesla turns a profit in what Musk calls ‘a historic quarter’

Then you are ignorant of history. Electric vehicles were in fact commercially viable in the late 1800s to 1900s. They died out, because gas is flat out better, than electric for a variety of reasons.

As for as Tesla, historic quarter... for Tesla. I'm all for it. Let them be successful. I have no problem with electric cars. I think it's mostly a joke to think of them as green... considering all the fuel that has to burn to make that electricity.

I have a question for all you Tesla fans thought....... two questions really.

1. Do you own an EV?
2. How many owners of EVs, do not own a gas powered car?

Agreed.
There is no practical way to do things like a long trip or towing a trailer with any EV.
And EVs are not cleaner at all, currently.

What is the scariest is the massive ignorance.
For example, diesel is likely about the cleanest choice right now, being twice as clean as gasoline, and bio diesel is far cleaner than electric, but the car makers in the US who don't know how to make a good small diesel, have waged a campaign of ignorance to kill diesels.
For example, the US car makers got upset that VW diesels were getting 56 mpg, so attacked and destroyed them. We should not have let that happen.

 

[Rigby5]

...

Out of curiosity, based on what do you describe yourself as an extreme leftist?

I am such an extreme leftist that it sometimes wraps around the the extreme right, like Libertarians.
But one way I identify with the left is being against the Military Industrial Complex, which is a coalition of the wealthy, corporations, and the military.
Another is being pro socialism, such as public health care, because then one can controls costs, quality, and fairness better.
I also believe in guaranteed employment, affordable housing, tuition, food, etc.

 

[Andylusion]

Only you could come on here, and claim your policies proved a concept, that was already proven over 100 years ago, and then claim others are regressive.

Horsecrap, it was not untill a few years ago that we finally got a commercially viable electric car.

Tesla turns a profit in what Musk calls ‘a historic quarter’

Then you are ignorant of history. Electric vehicles were in fact commercially viable in the late 1800s to 1900s. They died out, because gas is flat out better, than electric for a variety of reasons.

As for as Tesla, historic quarter... for Tesla. I'm all for it. Let them be successful. I have no problem with electric cars. I think it's mostly a joke to think of them as green... considering all the fuel that has to burn to make that electricity.

I have a question for all you Tesla fans thought....... two questions really.

1. Do you own an EV?
2. How many owners of EVs, do not own a gas powered car?

Agreed.
There is no practical way to do things like a long trip or towing a trailer with any EV.
And EVs are not cleaner at all, currently.

What is the scariest is the massive ignorance.
For example, diesel is likely about the cleanest choice right now, being twice as clean as gasoline, and bio diesel is far cleaner than electric, but the car makers in the US who don't know how to make a good small diesel, have waged a campaign of ignorance to kill diesels.
For example, the US car makers got upset that VW diesels were getting 56 mpg, so attacked and destroyed them. We should not have let that happen.

Ok hold on..... the VW diesel scandal was well documented. They had a program in the system that reduced fuel when it detected conditions that the EPA test provided. This wasn't the action of GM or Ford, or Chrysler. They flat out cheated on the test.

Now it is true, the TDI was darn cool. And the fuel economy was great for the lower power it was. Keep in mind, it was an 80 HP car. Not exactly 'snappy'. Any time you have a low performance engine, it will naturally get better gas mileage.

And we don't know why VW didn't try and get their newer TDI engines approved. My guess is, they assumed no one would buy them because the public image was ruined.

 

[Andylusion]

...

Out of curiosity, based on what do you describe yourself as an extreme leftist?

I am such an extreme leftist that it sometimes wraps around the the extreme right, like Libertarians.
But one way I identify with the left is being against the Military Industrial Complex, which is a coalition of the wealthy, corporations, and the military.
Another is being pro socialism, such as public health care, because then one can controls costs, quality, and fairness better.
I also believe in guaranteed employment, affordable housing, tuition, food, etc.

Ok, yes you are a socialists for sure. You'd think after 100 years of non-stop failure of that system, you would learn, but at least you are honest. It's nice to talk to honest people.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

At 65 miles per hour that works out to one hour stop every 5 hours.

But it’s really only one stop for lunch, because you’ll be stoping for the night after 10 hours of driving.

Not as convenient as gasoline, but definitely doable.

so would the creation of the recharging energy be more or less efficient that using gasoline for that trip? Do you know? Do you care? and you have been silent on the issue of disposal of toxic batteries in the environment as well as the energy required to make them in the first place.

More, 3-6 times more. (Price per mile)

Batteries are recyclable

Next question.

Sort of they are....
The rise of electric cars could leave us with a big battery waste problem

According to this, only 5% of lithium batteries are recycled, and even those that are recycled, only some of the metals are recycled.

For example the toxic lithium itself, ends up in a mixed waste byproduct. Which will have to be dumped somewhere at this point.

This is why the left-wing is more a hindrance to progress, than a help.

You promote stuff with a mindless uninformed "batteries are recyclable" chant, without having the slightest clue what you are talking about. If you people would get out of the way, science based logic would push forward advancement.

Instead, you just spout off this parrot AOC style idiocy "This is fix! Fartless cows, and trains that fly to Hawaii, and all batteries are recyclable!"

The fix is in the method that the EU has done for the last 30 years. They set up a recycle battery program for we and dry cell batteries starting 30 years ago and have a huge jump on us in all directions. They are also not playing stupid tax games with trying to tax electric cars into oblivion. They are also recycling their batteries 100%.

You now want to blame the left on all this. What else is new. Recycling never has been high on any RW list of things to do. That's a LWers list. So don't throw up all those roadblocks so it doesn't get done and then blame theLW when it doesn't get done.

It MUST get done. Resign yourself to that fact and stop this stupidity.

Fascinating given that the claim only 5% of lithium batteries are recycled, is from the EUs numbers.
And the fact they don't recycle 100% of the battery, was from their own report.

That was all from the EU.

Do you see how you prove yourself completely ignorant in every post? Even after I posted a like to the EU, saying they don't recycle 100% of the battery.... you come on here and boldly proclaim they do.

Do you not see how you have made yourself look like a moron to absolutely everyone who reads your posts? Idiots. All left-wingers are total idiots. It's no wonder you have fools like AOC as democrats.

Only 5% of the batteries used in the EU are lithiums. The Majority is still the Sealed Lead Acid Battery and those are heavily recycled. The figures used were from 2012, not from even 2016 or later. A lot has happened in the last couple or three of years. Using Today's information
Innovation boosts lithium-ion battery recycling rate to over 80%
There is about a 50% recycle rate for lithium batteries in the EU. There is a new method coming on line where over 80% of the lithium battery will be recycled this year. Using the Guarding for a source isn't the brightest card in the deck. If they were against building a Nuclear Power Plant anywhere, they would report something like, "Beware of the imminent Dangers of Nuclear Power. Look what Happened to Hiroshima. This will happen to your town as well". Never mind that it's 2019, Nuclear Power has proven to be safe and the background data they are using comes from 1945.

 

[AntonToo]

Only you could come on here, and claim your policies proved a concept, that was already proven over 100 years ago, and then claim others are regressive.

Horsecrap, it was not untill a few years ago that we finally got a commercially viable electric car.

Tesla turns a profit in what Musk calls ‘a historic quarter’

But the reality is that gasoline, diesel fuel, alcohol, and hydrogen combustion for transportation produce far less emissions than electric vehicles.

Lol I've got a Brooklyn bridge to sell you if you really belive that.

Model 3 has 134 MPG equivalent.
Civic (a much lower powered car) gets 30mpg.

So what you are saying is straight nonsence.

 

[Markle]

Around here, it's [electric] made with Natural Gas, Hydroelectric, Solar and Wind. There are, I believe, one coal fired plant left and it's on the chopping block. And WE have the coal but are smart enough not to burn it for electricity. Right now, 20% of all electric power come from Hydro, Solar and Wind. And it gets more and more each year. And are you aware that Hydro, Solar and Wind cost less than either the Coal or Natural Gas plants to operate. The electricity locally here is Hydroelectric. We haven't had a gas or coal fired plant for about 40 years. I can't help it that where you are from, people are dumber than a Box of Rock. Just one rock in that box. A Box of rocks would be smarter.

Where, roughly, is "here"?

Twenty percent is a very small percentage. The cost of solar and wind far exceeds the cost of producing energy by natural gas (dirt cheap due to fracking) and coal. New coal-burning generators use very clean coal, are very sophisticated and clean burning.

 

[Markle]

Agreed.
There is no practical way to do things like a long trip or towing a trailer with any EV.
And EVs are not cleaner at all, currently.

What is the scariest is the massive ignorance.
For example, diesel is likely about the cleanest choice right now, being twice as clean as gasoline, and bio diesel is far cleaner than electric, but the car makers in the US who don't know how to make a good small diesel, have waged a campaign of ignorance to kill diesels.
For example, the US car makers got upset that VW diesels were getting 56 mpg, so attacked and destroyed them. We should not have let that happen.

Wrong, Rigby5, Volkswagon did it to themselves. Why don't you make even a slight attempt at working with the facts? They cheated with their mpg figures.

November 04, 2015 12:00 AM
VW scandal widens to fuel consumption figures
FRANKFURT (Reuters) -- Investors wiped another 3 billion euros ($3.3 billion) off Volkswagen Group's market value today after the automaker said it had understated the fuel consumption of some cars, opening a new front in a scandal that initially centered on rigging emissions tests.

VW said on Tuesday it had understated the fuel usage and CO2 emissions of up to 800,000 cars in Europe, meaning those vehicles affected are more costly to drive than their buyers had been led to believe.

It wasn't immediately clear if any cars in the U.S. would be involved in the latest revelations.
[...]
VW scandal widens to fuel consumption figures

###

VW's emissions scandal spreads to gas-powered cars
Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY Published 2:33 p.m. ET Nov. 3, 2015 | Updated 3:55 p.m. ET Nov. 4, 2015
[,,,]
Volkswagen said in a statement from Germany that the issue this time is carbon dioxide. Most of the engines involved are diesels, but Guerreiro says some involve a 1.4-liter gas engine with a cylinder-deactivation feature aimed at saving more fuel. It marks the first time that emissions troubles have been mentioned in regard to gas, not just diesel, powerplants.

The automaker also said it set some gas-mileage estimates too high, which opens yet another avenue for trouble. "It was established that the CO2 levels, and thus the fuel-consumption figures, for some models were set too low during the CO2 certification process," said a Volkswagen spokesman in Germany, Christian Buhlmann.


In the U.S., Ford and Hyundai are among the automakers in recent years that have faced penalties and civil litigation for overstating fuel economy.

Volkswagen has already admitted to inserting software into 11 million diesel-powered vehicles worldwide that rigged their emissions systems to cheat testing. The admission came a day after the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency issued another citation against VW, alleging some models of VW, Porsche and Audi SUVs and luxury cars also appeared to cheat emissions laws.
[...]
VW's emissions scandal spreads to gas-powered cars

###

How VW Paid $25 Billion for 'Dieselgate' — and Got Off Easy
By ROGER PARLOFF
February 6, 2018
This article is a collaboration between Fortune and ProPublica, a nonprofit investigative news organization.

Volkswagen has been hit with huge penalties in the U.S. for the emissions scandal, but not in Europe. Are the German automaker’s senior executives likely to face any prison time?
[...]
The outlines of the scandal are well known. For nearly a decade, from 2006 to September 2015, Volkswagen anchored its U.S. sales strategy — aimed at vaulting the company past Toyota to become the world’s number one carmaker — on a breed of cars that turned out to be a hoax. They were touted as “Clean Diesel” vehicles. About 580,000 such sedans, SUVs, and crossovers were sold in the U.S. under the company’s VW, Audi, and Porsche marques. With great fanfare, including Super Bowl commercials, the company flacked an environmentalist’s dream: high performance cars that managed to achieve excellent fuel economy and emissions so squeaky clean as to rival those of electric hybrids like the Toyota Prius.

It was all a software-conjured mirage. The exhaust control equipment in the VW diesels was programmed to shut off as soon as the cars rolled off the regulators’ test beds, at which point the tail pipes spewed illegal levels of two types of nitrogen oxides (referred to collectively as NOx) into the atmosphere, causing smog, respiratory disease, and premature death.
[...]
How VW Paid $25 Billion for Dieselgate — and Got Off Easy

 

[Andylusion]

Only you could come on here, and claim your policies proved a concept, that was already proven over 100 years ago, and then claim others are regressive.

Horsecrap, it was not untill a few years ago that we finally got a commercially viable electric car.

Tesla turns a profit in what Musk calls ‘a historic quarter’

But the reality is that gasoline, diesel fuel, alcohol, and hydrogen combustion for transportation produce far less emissions than electric vehicles.

Lol I've got a Brooklyn bridge to sell you if you really belive that.

Model 3 has 134 MPG equivalent.
Civic (a much lower powered car) gets 30mpg.

So what you are saying is straight nonsence.

Yeah, propaganda is better than all that science 'nonsence'.

 

[Mr Natural]

In 20 years they’ll be laughing at us and our gasoline powered cars.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I tell you what idiot, sit back and watch your ICE go the way of horse buggy poop.

You can thank us "progress impeding left wingers" later.

We are still waiting

View attachment 261685

? Wtf are you wanting for?


Tesla's Model 3 was the best-selling luxury car of 2018

145,846 Model 3s is a big deal to you?


View attachment 261686
A Ford F-150 or Super Duty pickup was sold every 29.3 seconds on average, with nearly 1.1 million trucks purchased globally in 2018, Ford Motor Co. said Saturday.Jan 12, 2019
Ford sold an F-150 or Super Duty pickup every 29.3 seconds in 2018

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2019/01/12/...f-150.../2557609002/

Yea, it's a big deal that an electric car is the best rated and a #1 seller in a major category.

We are at a foot of a mountain.

Subsidized by poor people and over 200 years later ?

If you really gave a shit, you should buy one of these............ Only 60 grand


The Human Powered Car - Hammacher Schlemmer

The Human Powered Car


This is the hybrid vehicle powered by electricity generated by human effort. Its on-board power generator transfers the mechanical energy produced by pulling its four two-handed rowing bars into 2,500 watts of electrical energy. The four bars are pulled by up to four operators who sit in pairs back-to-back (or all-forward seating as an option). Each pull replicates the firing cycle of a four-cylinder engine—the bars are geared to follow a timed sequence, eliminating the need for operators to synchronize their efforts. When operators become fatigued and need a rest, the stored electricity powers the engine to a maximum speed of 60 mph.

 

[AntonToo]

Only you could come on here, and claim your policies proved a concept, that was already proven over 100 years ago, and then claim others are regressive.

Horsecrap, it was not untill a few years ago that we finally got a commercially viable electric car.

Tesla turns a profit in what Musk calls ‘a historic quarter’

But the reality is that gasoline, diesel fuel, alcohol, and hydrogen combustion for transportation produce far less emissions than electric vehicles.

Lol I've got a Brooklyn bridge to sell you if you really belive that.

Model 3 has 134 MPG equivalent.
Civic (a much lower powered car) gets 30mpg.

So what you are saying is straight nonsence.

Yeah, propaganda is better than all that science 'nonsence'.

do you actually have a refute for what you quoted?

You say MPGe is “propaganda”? Ok prove it.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Only you could come on here, and claim your policies proved a concept, that was already proven over 100 years ago, and then claim others are regressive.

Horsecrap, it was not untill a few years ago that we finally got a commercially viable electric car.

Tesla turns a profit in what Musk calls ‘a historic quarter’

But the reality is that gasoline, diesel fuel, alcohol, and hydrogen combustion for transportation produce far less emissions than electric vehicles.

Lol I've got a Brooklyn bridge to sell you if you really belive that.

Model 3 has 134 MPG equivalent.
Civic (a much lower powered car) gets 30mpg.

So what you are saying is straight nonsence.

Yeah, propaganda is better than all that science 'nonsence'.

do you actually have a refute for what you quoted?

You say MPGe is “propaganda”? Ok prove it.

I am an expert since I built and have built for others EVs of 2 and 3 wheel varieties. Some get really lousy mileage for the larger, heavier NHTA legal 3 wheelers at an equiv of only 200 mpg. While the smaller ones go as high 800 mpg or higher. I don't need to do a cite on this one. I am a builder with more successful business than most of the "Experts" that people use for their cites.

 

[Rigby5]

Only you could come on here, and claim your policies proved a concept, that was already proven over 100 years ago, and then claim others are regressive.

Horsecrap, it was not untill a few years ago that we finally got a commercially viable electric car.

Tesla turns a profit in what Musk calls ‘a historic quarter’

Then you are ignorant of history. Electric vehicles were in fact commercially viable in the late 1800s to 1900s. They died out, because gas is flat out better, than electric for a variety of reasons.

As for as Tesla, historic quarter... for Tesla. I'm all for it. Let them be successful. I have no problem with electric cars. I think it's mostly a joke to think of them as green... considering all the fuel that has to burn to make that electricity.

I have a question for all you Tesla fans thought....... two questions really.

1. Do you own an EV?
2. How many owners of EVs, do not own a gas powered car?

Agreed.
There is no practical way to do things like a long trip or towing a trailer with any EV.
And EVs are not cleaner at all, currently.

What is the scariest is the massive ignorance.
For example, diesel is likely about the cleanest choice right now, being twice as clean as gasoline, and bio diesel is far cleaner than electric, but the car makers in the US who don't know how to make a good small diesel, have waged a campaign of ignorance to kill diesels.
For example, the US car makers got upset that VW diesels were getting 56 mpg, so attacked and destroyed them. We should not have let that happen.

Ok hold on..... the VW diesel scandal was well documented. They had a program in the system that reduced fuel when it detected conditions that the EPA test provided. This wasn't the action of GM or Ford, or Chrysler. They flat out cheated on the test.

Now it is true, the TDI was darn cool. And the fuel economy was great for the lower power it was. Keep in mind, it was an 80 HP car. Not exactly 'snappy'. Any time you have a low performance engine, it will naturally get better gas mileage.

And we don't know why VW didn't try and get their newer TDI engines approved. My guess is, they assumed no one would buy them because the public image was ruined.

No, you are not even close.
The test had nothing to do with fuel consumption, but that GM, Ford, and Chrysler were unable to make a good and small diesel, so did not want European or Asian diesel competition.
To kill diesels, they had to find some trait unique to diesels, and regulate against that.
What they picked was NOx.
NOx is not even remotely dangerous, and while it could break down into nitric acid in a humid environment, the reality is that most of the NOx in the air comes from the ammonia injected into the soil as fertilizer, by agriculture.
Industry is the #2 source, with jet planes being #3.
Diesel cars are so far down the list that they are totally insignificant.
But VW found that in order to get the best mileage, you want to maximize the explosion, which maximizes NOx.
So as a compromise, to satisfy the silly EPA restrictions on NOx, they retarded fuel injection timing at slower speeds, and only advanced fuel injection timing at highway speeds.
The reality is that the TDI should have been exempt from EPA testing because it was so inherently clean. Diesels normally put out less than half the amount of carbon emissions per gallon of fuel used, and at 56 mpg, that is about half as many gallons used as well. So over all, the TDI then put out less than a forth the carbon emissions of US cars with similar size and performance.

And by the way, the TDI was more than 80 hp.
{...
From 1996 through 2003, the 1.9-liter TDI created 90 horsepower (hp) at 3,750 revolutions per minute (rpm). In 2004, Volkswagen tweaked the fuel injection system, after which the 1.9-liter TDI produced 100 hp at 4,000 rpm.
...}
Because of the quick, low end rpm torque, the TDI was a very good performer.

Not only would the best way to make air quality better in the US to mandate all vehicles be diesel, but diesels are the only way to actually go to zero emissions. The way to do that is with bio fuel, because it then absorbs more carbon while growing, than is released later when burned. Diesel is far cleaner then even electric vehicles, which mostly rely on coal burning.

 

[Rigby5]

Agreed.
There is no practical way to do things like a long trip or towing a trailer with any EV.
And EVs are not cleaner at all, currently.

What is the scariest is the massive ignorance.
For example, diesel is likely about the cleanest choice right now, being twice as clean as gasoline, and bio diesel is far cleaner than electric, but the car makers in the US who don't know how to make a good small diesel, have waged a campaign of ignorance to kill diesels.
For example, the US car makers got upset that VW diesels were getting 56 mpg, so attacked and destroyed them. We should not have let that happen.

Wrong, Rigby5, Volkswagon did it to themselves. Why don't you make even a slight attempt at working with the facts? They cheated with their mpg figures.

November 04, 2015 12:00 AM
VW scandal widens to fuel consumption figures
FRANKFURT (Reuters) -- Investors wiped another 3 billion euros ($3.3 billion) off Volkswagen Group's market value today after the automaker said it had understated the fuel consumption of some cars, opening a new front in a scandal that initially centered on rigging emissions tests.

VW said on Tuesday it had understated the fuel usage and CO2 emissions of up to 800,000 cars in Europe, meaning those vehicles affected are more costly to drive than their buyers had been led to believe.

It wasn't immediately clear if any cars in the U.S. would be involved in the latest revelations.
[...]
VW scandal widens to fuel consumption figures

###

VW's emissions scandal spreads to gas-powered cars
Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY Published 2:33 p.m. ET Nov. 3, 2015 | Updated 3:55 p.m. ET Nov. 4, 2015
[,,,]
Volkswagen said in a statement from Germany that the issue this time is carbon dioxide. Most of the engines involved are diesels, but Guerreiro says some involve a 1.4-liter gas engine with a cylinder-deactivation feature aimed at saving more fuel. It marks the first time that emissions troubles have been mentioned in regard to gas, not just diesel, powerplants.

The automaker also said it set some gas-mileage estimates too high, which opens yet another avenue for trouble. "It was established that the CO2 levels, and thus the fuel-consumption figures, for some models were set too low during the CO2 certification process," said a Volkswagen spokesman in Germany, Christian Buhlmann.


In the U.S., Ford and Hyundai are among the automakers in recent years that have faced penalties and civil litigation for overstating fuel economy.

Volkswagen has already admitted to inserting software into 11 million diesel-powered vehicles worldwide that rigged their emissions systems to cheat testing. The admission came a day after the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency issued another citation against VW, alleging some models of VW, Porsche and Audi SUVs and luxury cars also appeared to cheat emissions laws.
[...]
VW's emissions scandal spreads to gas-powered cars

###

How VW Paid $25 Billion for 'Dieselgate' — and Got Off Easy
By ROGER PARLOFF
February 6, 2018
This article is a collaboration between Fortune and ProPublica, a nonprofit investigative news organization.

Volkswagen has been hit with huge penalties in the U.S. for the emissions scandal, but not in Europe. Are the German automaker’s senior executives likely to face any prison time?
[...]
The outlines of the scandal are well known. For nearly a decade, from 2006 to September 2015, Volkswagen anchored its U.S. sales strategy — aimed at vaulting the company past Toyota to become the world’s number one carmaker — on a breed of cars that turned out to be a hoax. They were touted as “Clean Diesel” vehicles. About 580,000 such sedans, SUVs, and crossovers were sold in the U.S. under the company’s VW, Audi, and Porsche marques. With great fanfare, including Super Bowl commercials, the company flacked an environmentalist’s dream: high performance cars that managed to achieve excellent fuel economy and emissions so squeaky clean as to rival those of electric hybrids like the Toyota Prius.

It was all a software-conjured mirage. The exhaust control equipment in the VW diesels was programmed to shut off as soon as the cars rolled off the regulators’ test beds, at which point the tail pipes spewed illegal levels of two types of nitrogen oxides (referred to collectively as NOx) into the atmosphere, causing smog, respiratory disease, and premature death.
[...]
How VW Paid $25 Billion for Dieselgate — and Got Off Easy

That is totally foolish and you clearly did not even read any of the articles to the end.
The dispute had absolutely nothing at all to do with mileage, and no one disputes that VW was easily getting 56 mpg with the lowest carbon emissions in the world.

What the dispute was about was ONLY the amount of NOx emitted.
And NOx is not even clearly an emissions concern in reality.
There is no nitric acid rain.
The only acid rain was from gasoline engines producing sulfuric acid.

 

[Rigby5]

Only you could come on here, and claim your policies proved a concept, that was already proven over 100 years ago, and then claim others are regressive.

Horsecrap, it was not untill a few years ago that we finally got a commercially viable electric car.

Tesla turns a profit in what Musk calls ‘a historic quarter’

But the reality is that gasoline, diesel fuel, alcohol, and hydrogen combustion for transportation produce far less emissions than electric vehicles.

Lol I've got a Brooklyn bridge to sell you if you really belive that.

Model 3 has 134 MPG equivalent.
Civic (a much lower powered car) gets 30mpg.

So what you are saying is straight nonsence.

Wrong.
Electric cars do NOT have the equivalent claimed.
First of all, most electricity is actually made from burning coal, so is the dirtiest fuel use possible.
Sure you can claim 134 mpg if you could use wind generators, but that is not practical.
Second is that they do not count the inefficiency when producing the electricity, transmitting it, storing it, retrieving it, or converting it back to kinetic energy.
The reality is that with all those layers of loss, you need to actually produce over 5 times as much electricity as you actually use.

 

[Rigby5]

Horsecrap, it was not untill a few years ago that we finally got a commercially viable electric car.

Tesla turns a profit in what Musk calls ‘a historic quarter’

But the reality is that gasoline, diesel fuel, alcohol, and hydrogen combustion for transportation produce far less emissions than electric vehicles.

Lol I've got a Brooklyn bridge to sell you if you really belive that.

Model 3 has 134 MPG equivalent.
Civic (a much lower powered car) gets 30mpg.

So what you are saying is straight nonsence.

Yeah, propaganda is better than all that science 'nonsence'.

do you actually have a refute for what you quoted?

You say MPGe is “propaganda”? Ok prove it.

I am an expert since I built and have built for others EVs of 2 and 3 wheel varieties. Some get really lousy mileage for the larger, heavier NHTA legal 3 wheelers at an equiv of only 200 mpg. While the smaller ones go as high 800 mpg or higher. I don't need to do a cite on this one. I am a builder with more successful business than most of the "Experts" that people use for their cites.

If what I understand is that you are claiming to get the equivalent of over 200 mpg with an EV, that is not at all true.
That is a calculated figure that is not based on actually checking the amount of fuel and emissions when the electricity is produced, before it is transmitted, stored, retrieved, and re-converted by to kinetic energy.
Electric vehicles are far less efficient than what they claim.
And batteries are much heavier, expensive, and short lived than they admit.

 

[Rigby5]

...

Out of curiosity, based on what do you describe yourself as an extreme leftist?

I am such an extreme leftist that it sometimes wraps around the the extreme right, like Libertarians.
But one way I identify with the left is being against the Military Industrial Complex, which is a coalition of the wealthy, corporations, and the military.
Another is being pro socialism, such as public health care, because then one can controls costs, quality, and fairness better.
I also believe in guaranteed employment, affordable housing, tuition, food, etc.

Ok, yes you are a socialists for sure. You'd think after 100 years of non-stop failure of that system, you would learn, but at least you are honest. It's nice to talk to honest people.

First of all, humans are born socialists, as that is the inherent family and tribal system.
Second is that socialism has never failed and likely can't fail.
The Soviet Unions is best described as Stalinism, which essentially was pure capitalism, on a state level, without any competition.
The way to tell is that with socialism, it is collaborative, both in decisions and profit sharing.
Did the Soviet Union have any collaborative decision making or profit sharing?
No, so it was purely profit motivated in order to benefit one man, Stalin.

 

[Rigby5]

In 20 years they’ll be laughing at us and our gasoline powered cars.

But running expensive and heavy electric battery cars makes even less sense.
The only really clean methods are hydrogen or bio diesel.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Only you could come on here, and claim your policies proved a concept, that was already proven over 100 years ago, and then claim others are regressive.

Horsecrap, it was not untill a few years ago that we finally got a commercially viable electric car.

Tesla turns a profit in what Musk calls ‘a historic quarter’

But the reality is that gasoline, diesel fuel, alcohol, and hydrogen combustion for transportation produce far less emissions than electric vehicles.

Lol I've got a Brooklyn bridge to sell you if you really belive that.

Model 3 has 134 MPG equivalent.
Civic (a much lower powered car) gets 30mpg.

So what you are saying is straight nonsence.

Wrong.
Electric cars do NOT have the equivalent claimed.
First of all, most electricity is actually made from burning coal, so is the dirtiest fuel use possible.
Sure you can claim 134 mpg if you could use wind generators, but that is not practical.
Second is that they do not count the inefficiency when producing the electricity, transmitting it, storing it, retrieving it, or converting it back to kinetic energy.
The reality is that with all those layers of loss, you need to actually produce over 5 times as much electricity as you actually use.

In the state of Colorado, we have ONE, count it, ONE Coal Fired Power Plant left and it's on the chopping block. One out of hundreds. You mean that by law, we all have to drive to just outside Craig,Colorado so we can plug our EVs in and not use the Hydroelectric, Solar, Wind or Natural Gas plants to recharge? I know there are some laws out there to try and kill the electric car but that must be the hardest one of all.

You have to be just parroting what an Oil Company handler told you to say because it's BS from the word go. Coal has been in large decline for the last few years and continues to decline being replaced by the other energy sources. Even today, for Electricity Generation, there is a decline in Natural Gas but Natural Gas still dominates the market. But it's slowly losing ground. Much like Coal did in the 70s to Natural Gas. Right now, Colorado uses about 20% for Solar and Wind for electric power on the grid. Every year, it gets a bigger cut in the market as more and more sites are constructed. This also includes people that have their own systems for their homes where they are linked to the grid and do zero energy or less in a 24 hour period.

As for the energy loss, you are just a little bit correct. But not even close to 5 times. My vehicles run anywhere from 80 to 95% efficient. Meaning, the power going it, you get at least 80% power energy out. You really need to get a better Oil Company Handler. The one you have is an idiot.