Same bullshit, different decade: What members of the gay rights movement could learn from history

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Why? Is stating fact now bigoted? Care to compare health profiles of homosexual and heterosexual men? No, of course you dont. You deflect every time I bring this up because you know the answer. Gay kills.

Please explain how two men in a monogamous marriage kills.

SO you think only 2 men are capable of monogamous marriage? You sure look stupid.

Given your posting history – this post included – you're in no position to call anyone 'stupid.'

 

[TemplarKormac]

And so, only one paltry example of "discrimination."

Like I said. Nonexistent.

 

[Seawytch]

And so, only one paltry example of "discrimination."

Like I said. Nonexistent.

Health Care Refusals Harm Patients The Threat to LGBT People and Individuals Living with HIV AIDS National Women s Law Center

 

[TemplarKormac]

By the way, there are no laws prohibiting doctors from refusing service to gay couples, as this article points out.

The incident has raised valid questions about whether Roi’s actions were justified, ethical or even legal.

“As far as we know, Bay doesn’t have a sexual orientation yet so I’m not really sure what that matters,” Jami added to WJBK. “We’re not your patient — she’s your patient. And the fact is that your job is to keep babies healthy and you can’t keep a baby healthy that has gay parents?”

The answer is: It depends.

Ethically speaking, the American Medical Association takes a strong stance against denying care to people because of their sexual orientation — and it is reasonable to assume, the sexual orientation of their parents.

But their ethical guidance is just that: Guidance. Doctors aren’t bound by it.

“Respecting the diversity of patients is a fundamental value of the medical profession and reflected in long-standing AMA ethical policy opposing any refusal to care for patients based on race, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or any other criteria that would constitute invidious discrimination,” said Gregory Blaschke, chair of the AMA’s LGBT Advisory Committee, in a statement to the Detroit Free Press.

But what about the legality of it all? Well, that depends, too.

There’s no federal law prohibiting doctors or any other service providers or merchants from refusing service to gay people. And in Michigan, there’s no state law prohibiting it either.

“There’s no law that prohibits it,” Wayne State University constitutional law Prof. Robert Sedler explained to the Free Press. “It’s the same as a florist refusing to sell flowers for a same-sex wedding.”

And while individual states have taken steps to ban the practice, Michigan is considering going in exactly the opposite direction.

Pediatrician refuses to treat baby with lesbian parents and there s nothing illegal about it - The Washington Post

So, NYLiar and Bfgrn can have a seat.

 

[Seawytch]

By the way, there are no laws prohibiting doctors from refusing service to gay couples, as this article points out.

The incident has raised valid questions about whether Roi’s actions were justified, ethical or even legal.

“As far as we know, Bay doesn’t have a sexual orientation yet so I’m not really sure what that matters,” Jami added to WJBK. “We’re not your patient — she’s your patient. And the fact is that your job is to keep babies healthy and you can’t keep a baby healthy that has gay parents?”

The answer is: It depends.

Ethically speaking, the American Medical Association takes a strong stance against denying care to people because of their sexual orientation — and it is reasonable to assume, the sexual orientation of their parents.

But their ethical guidance is just that: Guidance. Doctors aren’t bound by it.

“Respecting the diversity of patients is a fundamental value of the medical profession and reflected in long-standing AMA ethical policy opposing any refusal to care for patients based on race, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or any other criteria that would constitute invidious discrimination,” said Gregory Blaschke, chair of the AMA’s LGBT Advisory Committee, in a statement to the Detroit Free Press.

But what about the legality of it all? Well, that depends, too.

There’s no federal law prohibiting doctors or any other service providers or merchants from refusing service to gay people. And in Michigan, there’s no state law prohibiting it either.

“There’s no law that prohibits it,” Wayne State University constitutional law Prof. Robert Sedler explained to the Free Press. “It’s the same as a florist refusing to sell flowers for a same-sex wedding.”

And while individual states have taken steps to ban the practice, Michigan is considering going in exactly the opposite direction.

Pediatrician refuses to treat baby with lesbian parents and there s nothing illegal about it - The Washington Post

So, NYLiar and Bfgrn can have a seat.

What did they lie about. You said it doesn't happen. It does. In some places it is illegal. Americans believe it should be illegal everywhere.

 

[The Rabbi]

Why? Is stating fact now bigoted? Care to compare health profiles of homosexual and heterosexual men? No, of course you dont. You deflect every time I bring this up because you know the answer. Gay kills.

Please explain how two men in a monogamous marriage kills.

SO you think only 2 men are capable of monogamous marriage? You sure look stupid.

Given your posting history – this post included – you're in no position to call anyone 'stupid.'

Your failure to engage is noted. You are dismissed.

 

[The Rabbi]

By the way, there are no laws prohibiting doctors from refusing service to gay couples, as this article points out.

The incident has raised valid questions about whether Roi’s actions were justified, ethical or even legal.

“As far as we know, Bay doesn’t have a sexual orientation yet so I’m not really sure what that matters,” Jami added to WJBK. “We’re not your patient — she’s your patient. And the fact is that your job is to keep babies healthy and you can’t keep a baby healthy that has gay parents?”

The answer is: It depends.

Ethically speaking, the American Medical Association takes a strong stance against denying care to people because of their sexual orientation — and it is reasonable to assume, the sexual orientation of their parents.

But their ethical guidance is just that: Guidance. Doctors aren’t bound by it.

“Respecting the diversity of patients is a fundamental value of the medical profession and reflected in long-standing AMA ethical policy opposing any refusal to care for patients based on race, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or any other criteria that would constitute invidious discrimination,” said Gregory Blaschke, chair of the AMA’s LGBT Advisory Committee, in a statement to the Detroit Free Press.

But what about the legality of it all? Well, that depends, too.

There’s no federal law prohibiting doctors or any other service providers or merchants from refusing service to gay people. And in Michigan, there’s no state law prohibiting it either.

“There’s no law that prohibits it,” Wayne State University constitutional law Prof. Robert Sedler explained to the Free Press. “It’s the same as a florist refusing to sell flowers for a same-sex wedding.”

And while individual states have taken steps to ban the practice, Michigan is considering going in exactly the opposite direction.

Pediatrician refuses to treat baby with lesbian parents and there s nothing illegal about it - The Washington Post

So, NYLiar and Bfgrn can have a seat.

What did they lie about. You said it doesn't happen. It does. In some places it is illegal. Americans believe it should be illegal everywhere.

It doesnt happen. Once incident pulled fro someone;s ass is not proof of anything.

 

[Skylar]

And so, only one paltry example of "discrimination."

Like I said. Nonexistent.

There are a grand total of 3 suits against bakers. And yet you've been shitting your rhetorical pants about it for days.

How does 1 instance mean 'non-existent', but 3 instances mean a threat to liberty?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Now, my original contention stands. Did the baby have a life threatening condition? No. She was in for a checkup. Now, in Dr. Roi's stead, another doctor saw and treated the infant. Problem solved. And that is why you haven't heard any more on the subject, because the lesbian couple in question have a doctor willing to treat their child.

When:

A) A life is on the line (EMT, Firemen, Doctors) or,
B) Justice is on the line (Police officer)

Discrimination is not an option.

 

[Skylar]

By the way, there are no laws prohibiting doctors from refusing service to gay couples, as this article points out.

The incident has raised valid questions about whether Roi’s actions were justified, ethical or even legal.

“As far as we know, Bay doesn’t have a sexual orientation yet so I’m not really sure what that matters,” Jami added to WJBK. “We’re not your patient — she’s your patient. And the fact is that your job is to keep babies healthy and you can’t keep a baby healthy that has gay parents?”

The answer is: It depends.

Ethically speaking, the American Medical Association takes a strong stance against denying care to people because of their sexual orientation — and it is reasonable to assume, the sexual orientation of their parents.

But their ethical guidance is just that: Guidance. Doctors aren’t bound by it.

“Respecting the diversity of patients is a fundamental value of the medical profession and reflected in long-standing AMA ethical policy opposing any refusal to care for patients based on race, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or any other criteria that would constitute invidious discrimination,” said Gregory Blaschke, chair of the AMA’s LGBT Advisory Committee, in a statement to the Detroit Free Press.

But what about the legality of it all? Well, that depends, too.

There’s no federal law prohibiting doctors or any other service providers or merchants from refusing service to gay people. And in Michigan, there’s no state law prohibiting it either.

“There’s no law that prohibits it,” Wayne State University constitutional law Prof. Robert Sedler explained to the Free Press. “It’s the same as a florist refusing to sell flowers for a same-sex wedding.”

And while individual states have taken steps to ban the practice, Michigan is considering going in exactly the opposite direction.

Pediatrician refuses to treat baby with lesbian parents and there s nothing illegal about it - The Washington Post

So, NYLiar and Bfgrn can have a seat.

What did they lie about. You said it doesn't happen. It does. In some places it is illegal. Americans believe it should be illegal everywhere.

It doesnt happen. Once incident pulled fro someone;s ass is not proof of anything.

Its about 100% more often than churches being forced to conduct same sex weddings. Yet your ilk kept that thread running with baseless speculation and doomsday scenarios for over 250 pages.

Yet there are no examples of it.

How does that work exactly?

 

[Seawytch]

And so, only one paltry example of "discrimination."

Like I said. Nonexistent.

There are a grand total of 3 suits against bakers. And yet you've been shitting your rhetorical pants about it for days.

How does 1 instance mean 'non-existent', but 3 instances mean a threat to liberty?

It's more than one instance.

Approximately 8% of LGB individuals, nearly 27% of transgender and gender-nonconforming individuals, and almost 20% of HIV-positive individuals report being denied needed health care outright.

Health Care Refusals Harm Patients The Threat to LGBT People and Individuals Living with HIV AIDS National Women s Law Center

(TK won't see this because facts scare him and he ignores me)

 

[Skylar]

And so, only one paltry example of "discrimination."

Like I said. Nonexistent.

There are a grand total of 3 suits against bakers. And yet you've been shitting your rhetorical pants about it for days.

How does 1 instance mean 'non-existent', but 3 instances mean a threat to liberty?

It's more than one instance.

Approximately 8% of LGB individuals, nearly 27% of transgender and gender-nonconforming individuals, and almost 20% of HIV-positive individuals report being denied needed health care outright.

Health Care Refusals Harm Patients The Threat to LGBT People and Individuals Living with HIV AIDS National Women s Law Center

(TK won't see this because facts scare him and he ignores me)

3 instances of bakers being sued.......shit your ******* pants.

8% of LGBT folks refused healthcare......non-existent.

Hmmm. Reaction wise, one of these things is not like the other.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What would you call an EMT, fireman, policeman or doctors who refused their services because of their religious beliefs?

Nonexistent.

Deflection. Please explain how a law that would allow a bakery to refuse service to gays because of their religious beliefs would not ALSO allow an EMT, fireman, policeman or doctors to refused their services because of their religious beliefs?

Try to think like a grown adult...take your time...

You know...there IS room for compromise regarding PA laws. If you provide non essential services in a populated area, you should be able to refuse to serve anyone you want. If there is another baker, florist, tuxedo rental, etc. within, say, a 20 mile radius you can refer the individuals to, you should be able to send the black, gay, Jewish person, etc. to the other business.

I think the business should have to state up front who they won't serve though...

Disagree.

Public accommodations laws aren't solely about availability of services, they also concern necessary, proper, and Constitutional regulatory policy, where businesses refusing to accommodate patrons are disruptive to the local market and all other interrelated markets, and governments are authorized by Commerce Clause jurisprudence to ensure the integrity of the markets.

Moreover, in order for laws to be valid, they must be applied consistently.

Last, necessary, proper, and Constitutional laws such as public accommodations laws in no way 'violate' religious liberty, the primary intent of public accommodations laws is regulatory, not to 'disadvantage' religious expression; consequently, public accommodations laws do not violate the Free Exercise Clause, and those who perceive a 'religious objection' to accommodating certain patrons have no valid, legal argument justifying their desire to discriminate based on 'religious grounds.'

 

[Seawytch]

And so, only one paltry example of "discrimination."

Like I said. Nonexistent.

There are a grand total of 3 suits against bakers. And yet you've been shitting your rhetorical pants about it for days.

How does 1 instance mean 'non-existent', but 3 instances mean a threat to liberty?

It's more than one instance.

Approximately 8% of LGB individuals, nearly 27% of transgender and gender-nonconforming individuals, and almost 20% of HIV-positive individuals report being denied needed health care outright.

Health Care Refusals Harm Patients The Threat to LGBT People and Individuals Living with HIV AIDS National Women s Law Center

(TK won't see this because facts scare him and he ignores me)

3 instances of bakers being sued.......shit your ******* pants.

8% of LGBT folks refused healthcare......non-existent.

Hmmm. Reaction wise, one of these things is not like the other.

But, but, but...Muslims kill gays in other countries!!!!!

 

[g5000]

Why? Is stating fact now bigoted? Care to compare health profiles of homosexual and heterosexual men? No, of course you dont. You deflect every time I bring this up because you know the answer. Gay kills.

Please explain how two men in a monogamous marriage kills.

SO you think only 2 men are capable of monogamous marriage? You sure look stupid.

That is not what I said, incomprehension boi.

You said, "Gay kills". So please explain how two gay men in a monogamous marriage kills. A very simple request.

I predict you will continue to dodge the question, or defend your bare assertion with another bare assertion.

 

[Seawytch]

What would you call an EMT, fireman, policeman or doctors who refused their services because of their religious beliefs?

Nonexistent.

Deflection. Please explain how a law that would allow a bakery to refuse service to gays because of their religious beliefs would not ALSO allow an EMT, fireman, policeman or doctors to refused their services because of their religious beliefs?

Try to think like a grown adult...take your time...

You know...there IS room for compromise regarding PA laws. If you provide non essential services in a populated area, you should be able to refuse to serve anyone you want. If there is another baker, florist, tuxedo rental, etc. within, say, a 20 mile radius you can refer the individuals to, you should be able to send the black, gay, Jewish person, etc. to the other business.

I think the business should have to state up front who they won't serve though...

Disagree.

Public accommodations laws aren't solely about availability of services, they also concern necessary, proper, and Constitutional regulatory policy, where businesses refusing to accommodate patrons are disruptive to the local market and all other interrelated markets, and governments are authorized by Commerce Clause jurisprudence to ensure the integrity of the markets.

Moreover, in order for laws to be valid, they must be applied consistently.

Last, necessary, proper, and Constitutional laws such as public accommodations laws in no way 'violate' religious liberty, the primary intent of public accommodations laws is regulatory, not to 'disadvantage' religious expression; consequently, public accommodations laws do not violate the Free Exercise Clause, and those who perceive a 'religious objection' to accommodating certain patrons have no valid, legal argument justifying their desire to discriminate based on 'religious grounds.'

Meh...maybe I lean a little more Libertarian on this. I like snarky yelp reviews.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Why? Is stating fact now bigoted? Care to compare health profiles of homosexual and heterosexual men? No, of course you dont. You deflect every time I bring this up because you know the answer. Gay kills.

Please explain how two men in a monogamous marriage kills.

SO you think only 2 men are capable of monogamous marriage? You sure look stupid.

That is not what I said, incomprehension boi.

You said, "Gay kills". So please explain how two gay men in a monogamous marriage kills.

I predict you will continue to dodge, deflect or defend your bare assertion with another bare assertion.

It can kill. While syphilis itself is not fatal, it can cause loss of eyesight and strokes (which can kill you, or cause brain damage).

Syphilis Cases Among Gay Bisexual Men On The Rise In The U.S.

Other STDs, like HIV can and will kill. As of now there is no effective cure for it...yet.

According to the CDC:

"Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM) represent an incredibly diverse community. However, these men are disproportionately impacted by syphilis, HIV, and other sexually transmitted diseases (STDs)."

Reverse transcription of the HIV-1 pandemic

While I have no control over, nor care as to what gay people do, such a lifestyle presents significant risks to health.

 

[rightwinger]

Why? Is stating fact now bigoted? Care to compare health profiles of homosexual and heterosexual men? No, of course you dont. You deflect every time I bring this up because you know the answer. Gay kills.

Please explain how two men in a monogamous marriage kills.

SO you think only 2 men are capable of monogamous marriage? You sure look stupid.

That is not what I said, incomprehension boi.

You said, "Gay kills". So please explain how two gay men in a monogamous marriage kills.

I predict you will continue to dodge, deflect or defend your bare assertion with another bare assertion.

It can kill. While syphilis itself is not fatal, it can cause loss of eyesight and strokes (which can kill you, or cause brain damage).

Syphilis Cases Among Gay Bisexual Men On The Rise In The U.S.

Other STDs, like HIV can and will kill. As of now there is no effective cure for it...yet.

According to the CDC:

"Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM) represent an incredibly diverse community. However, these men are disproportionately impacted by syphilis, HIV, and other sexually transmitted diseases (STDs)."

Reverse transcription of the HIV-1 pandemic

While I have no control over, nor care as to what gay people do, such a lifestyle presents significant risks to health.

If that is the case, then why wouldn't you support monogamous married relationships for gays?

 

[g5000]

Why? Is stating fact now bigoted? Care to compare health profiles of homosexual and heterosexual men? No, of course you dont. You deflect every time I bring this up because you know the answer. Gay kills.

Please explain how two men in a monogamous marriage kills.

SO you think only 2 men are capable of monogamous marriage? You sure look stupid.

That is not what I said, incomprehension boi.

You said, "Gay kills". So please explain how two gay men in a monogamous marriage kills.

I predict you will continue to dodge, deflect or defend your bare assertion with another bare assertion.

It can kill. While syphilis itself is not fatal, it can cause loss of eyesight and strokes (which can kill you, or cause brain damage).

Syphilis Cases Among Gay Bisexual Men On The Rise In The U.S.

Other STDs, like HIV can and will kill. As of now there is no effective cure for it...yet.

According to the CDC:

"Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM) represent an incredibly diverse community. However, these men are disproportionately impacted by syphilis, HIV, and other sexually transmitted diseases (STDs)."

Reverse transcription of the HIV-1 pandemic

While I have no control over, nor care as to what gay people do, such a lifestyle presents significant risks to health.

What does any of that have to do with a monogamous marriage?

By the way, syphilis and gonorrhea were killing millions of heterosexuals for centuries before a cure was found.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What does any of that have to do with a monogamous marriage?

Is a sex life not part of a "monogamous" gay marriage too? Or is being gay only a means to make a political statement? If it's the former, it has plenty to do with monogamous marriage. If it's the latter, then we have just discovered the whole motivation behind the LGBTQ movement.

Now, in a monogamous gay marriage, I would assume sex is part of the marriage, as it is with a monogamous heterosexual marriage. Having same sex intercourse can and will prevent dangers to health.