Russia gains air superiority over usa on obama's watch!!!

[Queen]

Barry cancels the F-22. Russia builds a next generation aircraft that's as good or better.

Way to weaken a nation Barry.

Russia's first stealth fighter makes maiden flight - Yahoo! News

Yes, because we need F-22s for our upcoming war with Russia right? I'll be reminded of this thread next time you complain about all the spending he's doing.

And take note:

MOSCOW – Russia's first stealth fighter intended to match the latest U.S. design made its maiden flight Friday, boosting the country's efforts to modernize its rusting Soviet-built arsenals and retain its lucrative export market.

Nothing about passing, but matching. Key differences.

GET OUT!!

You mean this is another lie thread by the right wingers? I'm so shocked.

 

[Rinata]

Barry cancels the F-22. Russia builds a next generation aircraft that's as good or better.

Way to weaken a nation Barry.

Russia's first stealth fighter makes maiden flight - Yahoo! News

We used to have pretend air raid drills in grammar school when I was a kid. Russia was a problem!!! Nikita Khrushchev said he would bury us!!! It was so scary.

Are you telling us that we have to be afraid of them again??????? I think I'll ask my hubs to build a bomb shelter!!! Thanks for the heads up!!!

 

[Navy1960]

YouTube - Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov
Russian Aircraft Carrier

YouTube - Rafale on the French aircraft carrier
French Aircraft Carrier

YouTube - India's Aircraft Carrier INS Vikramaditya is being built in Russia - Part 3
Indias Aircraft Carrier

No ither nation has them hmm.. okay. will let that one pass.

i think he said nuclear Navy....

Nuclear is a method of propulsion for those Carriers Harry, it does not mean that they are not capable in terms of mission and force projection which those carriers are capable of.

 

[Rinata]

**** man did you read past the FIRST ******* SENTENCE!!!!!??????

YOUR SOURCE!!!!!

"It's a humbug," said independent military analyst Pavel Felgenhauer. "It's just a prototype lacking new engines and a new radar. It takes new materials to build a fifth-generation fighter, and Russia lacks them."

Stop!!! You're killing me!!! I have been laughing for 5 minutes. You were doing so great with your pledge and I was so inspired!! But I guess this guy just pushed you over the edge!! And I can see why. Just get right back on that horse!! You're so cute.

 

[Navy1960]

Hey Navy what kind of carriers are these other countries building? Are they the "Super" Carriers that WE have and are they part of a CARRIER GROUP of highly specialized surface and submerged support vessels? I really doubt that any of them are and the only countries I really think could ever have that type of capability is China or Russia. Don't the French have small aircraft carriers that rely on stolv and helicopters?

I had another question what about the development of new armaments. Are we developing new LONGER RANGE missiles that are MORE likely to score a KILL each time one is launched? What about lighter than air AWACS systems?

The answer to your second question is yes, there is a whole host of BVR type weapon systems both fielded and those yet to be fielded that hold a lot of promise in terms of accuracy and stealth. As for lighter than Air AWACS the only thing I am aware of is the Navys work done in that area that they have continued to do since the 80's actually. Some of the technology that has spun off from that work can be seen in the lighter than air monitoring systems that the US Border Patrol uses called aerostats.

Aerostats perform very unusual and highly sensitive communications duties for elite government law enforcement and broadcasting organizations in situations where no other practical way to do a job exists.

Like a flying intrusion detector, 11 aerostats with inboard radars troll for drug-hauling aircraft, along an arc that stretches from Puerto Rico to Yuma, Ariz. In the early 1990s, one aerostat started flying the powerful antenna for a Voice of America-like TV station, TV Marti. The daily broadcasts show and tell the people of Cuba what their strongman doesn't want them to know.

Aerostats are packed to their fins with special radar payloads that would have mere hot air balloons, airships or blimps hissing with envy. Airmen -- retired and active-duty -- are involved. A contracted team of 30 people runs each radar site. Pairs of ground radar airmen visit those outposts for quality assurance. A few calibrate the sensitive onboard gear each year
Lighter-than-air Force - Aerostat radar balloons | Airman | Find Articles at BNET

On the long range issue you may want to look up AMRAAM as a start.

 

[Navy1960]

NAA President and CEO David Ivey said the fighter’s performance has “established the unquestionable superiority of the Raptor, a culmination of years of visionary design, rigorous testing, and innovative manufacturing.”
The F-22 was specifically cited for its performance in the 2006 Northern Edge military exercise. During this large-scale, force-on-force exercise, Raptor pilots flew an amazing 97 percent of their scheduled missions, achieved an 80-to-1 kill ratio against their Red Air opponents, scored direct hits with 100 percent of their satellite guided 1,000-pound GBU-32 Joint Direct Attack Munition air-to-ground weapons, and increased overall situational awareness for the entire Blue Force through the F-22’s integrated avionics.
http://www.f22-raptor.com/media/documents/CollierAward.pdf

Various maiden flight and delivery deadlines have been mentioned. The fighter is expected to make its appearance sometime between 2008 and 2010. In late 2008, Colonel General Alexandr Zelin, commander of the Air Force, said the warplane would perform its initial flight in August 2009.

Last summer, the fighter's design was approved, and the prototype blueprints were delivered to the Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Production Association (KNAAPO), where production will reportedly be sited. Currently, the company is building three experimental fighters for testing. These prototypes are due to last for five or six years. However, a production run will not be launched before 2015.

Although T-50 specifications remain classified, fragmentary data on its engines imply that this heavy-duty fighter will have a take-off weight of more than 30 metric tons and will be close in dimension to the Su-27.

The Tikhomirov Instrument Engineering Research Institute, which designed the Irbis radar system for the Su-35BM Flanker generation four-plus fighter, is now developing the T-50 warplane's radar. It appears that its radar and fire control system will be based on the Su-35BM system.
The fifth-generation fighter | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire

As to the original question the Russian aircraft appears to be an upgraded SU-35 with stealth features and using the same engines as the SU-35 and thrust vectoring. However to say or imply that it is a competetor to the F-22 is way to premature. The F-22 will for sometime to come have the stop spot as the only 5th generation fighter. I did not say the best fighter in the air because that reputation assumes combat performance one in which the F-15 Eagle at the moment sits on top of.

 

[Navy1960]

Thought I might also add what Sukhoi has to say about what their plans are for the near future.

On the world fighter market Russia’s Sukhoi is pinning its hopes, in the near future, on a substantially modernized Su-35 multi-role fighter. The model must be an interim type between today’s Su-30MK in various configurations and a prospective fifth-generation fighter, whose deliveries may start in the second half of the next decade. The Su-35 is a 4++ generation aircraft employing technologies of the fifth generation. They make it superior to all other 4th generation fighters now under development worldwide. In 2009-2015, thanks to these technologies, the Su-35 will dominate the world market, outperforming other proposed multi-role fighters.
Sukhoi Company (JSC) - Airplanes - Military Aircraft - Su-35

It does add fuel to the fire that aircraft like the F-15SE and F-16IN would be worth taking a second look at as they both are 4+++ generation fighters as well.

 

[rdean]

You are not part of the solution. You ARE the problem.

You mean forwarding the cause of global fascism? Correct. I am it's fervent enemy.

Some things don't deserve a point.

Correct, you are quite pointless.

I do find it interesting you want to gulag me for daring to criticize your god.

Don't worry Chicken Little. The sky's not falling. But the buckles on your white jacket have come undone. We'll send a note to your "keepers" that you, once again, "got out".
Must be awful to live in such fear.

BOO!

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Barry cancels the F-22. Russia builds a next generation aircraft that's as good or better.

Way to weaken a nation Barry.

Russia's first stealth fighter makes maiden flight - Yahoo! News

Russian crap...that's what this jet is.....Rusian crap. They stole the design of the F-22 and incorporated all their own worthless avionics and engines.... A flying turd....

 

[PatekPhilippe]

YouTube - Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov
Russian Aircraft Carrier

YouTube - Rafale on the French aircraft carrier
French Aircraft Carrier

YouTube - India's Aircraft Carrier INS Vikramaditya is being built in Russia - Part 3
Indias Aircraft Carrier

No ither nation has them hmm.. okay. will let that one pass.

i think he said nuclear Navy....

Nuclear is a method of propulsion for those Carriers Harry, it does not mean that they are not capable in terms of mission and force projection which those carriers are capable of.

They may have them but carrier tactics and flight ops are completely alien to these country's.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Very different competetion and very different situation that resulted in that selection, which by the way as an Air Force competetion in which the F-16 won and the YF-17 lost. The US Navy later revised the aircraft to replace the A-6 and the A-7. The F-18 is avery good aircraft but the F/A 18 is also getting old and in need of replacement. I would not dream of putting the F-22 against the F-35 as that would be unfair. However what I am suggesting is that this one size fits all, especially on the F-35 which is a average aircraft at best and will be in several flight evelopes exceeded by aircraft that we will be exporting to other nations at less than what the F-35 costs should make the DoD take notice.

The likelyhood of air-air combat is almost nil these days, air superiority just isn't considered important.
Multi-role is now the new 'god' in aircraft procurment.

Uhhhhhh....I think you may be incorrect in this assessment. Air to ground support of our troops cannot happen without air superiority.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Very different competetion and very different situation that resulted in that selection, which by the way as an Air Force competetion in which the F-16 won and the YF-17 lost. The US Navy later revised the aircraft to replace the A-6 and the A-7. The F-18 is avery good aircraft but the F/A 18 is also getting old and in need of replacement. I would not dream of putting the F-22 against the F-35 as that would be unfair. However what I am suggesting is that this one size fits all, especially on the F-35 which is a average aircraft at best and will be in several flight evelopes exceeded by aircraft that we will be exporting to other nations at less than what the F-35 costs should make the DoD take notice.

The likelyhood of air-air combat is almost nil these days, air superiority just isn't considered important.
Multi-role is now the new 'god' in aircraft procurment.

Uhhhhhh....I think you may be incorect in this assessment. Air to ground support of our troops cannot happen without air superiority.

Everything from air support to getting critical supplies to the troops. Air superiority is still extremely important.

 

[Navy1960]

i think he said nuclear Navy....

Nuclear is a method of propulsion for those Carriers Harry, it does not mean that they are not capable in terms of mission and force projection which those carriers are capable of.

They may have them but carrier tactics and flight ops are completely alien to these country's.

I would not go so far as to say that, the UK, the French and the Russians have been operating Carriers for over 45 years and one would assume that in that time they have developed the ability to carry out flight operations and carrier tactics . In fact the Steam Catapult that the US Navy has used on many different classes of Aircraft Carriers since the end of WW2 and has used for sometime is an invention first proposed by a UK Commander Colin Mitchell. While it's true that the our nations carrier tactics and operations would be somewhat alien to all those nations, the operation of aircraft from carriers and the ability to force project from that carriers is not something that is a foreign concept to those nations. I can't believe you folks have me defending the Russian Navy here lol . I would say the only nation this might apply to across the board would have to be China or perhaps nations that have no experience in Carrier operations.

 

[PatekPhilippe]

Nuclear is a method of propulsion for those Carriers Harry, it does not mean that they are not capable in terms of mission and force projection which those carriers are capable of.

They may have them but carrier tactics and flight ops are completely alien to these country's.

I would not go so far as to say that, the UK, the French and the Russians have been operating Carriers for over 45 years and one would assume that in that time they have developed the ability to carry out flight operations and carrier tactics . In fact the Steam Catapult that the US Navy has used on many different classes of Aircraft Carriers since the end of WW2 and has used for sometime is an invention first proposed by a UK Commander Colin Mitchell. While it's true that the our nations carrier tactics and operations would be somewhat alien to all those nations, the operation of aircraft from carriers and the ability to force project from that carriers is not something that is a foreign concept to those nations. I can't believe you folks have me defending the Russian Navy here lol . I would say the only nation this might apply to across the board would have to be China or perhaps nations that have no experience in Carrier operations.

I beg to differ Navy1960...the last time the Brits used any sort of carrier tactics or warfare was the Falklands war...proir to that WW2. The French? The Japanese haven't had carriers since WW2 and they are far ahead of anyone in this group. The Indian Navy while appearing formidable on paper is in fact in it's infancy as a projector of power...same with the Russian Navy as they lost their edge until the oil money started flowing into their treasury. It's all well and good to get your carrier underway and get some pilots some flight time and a few night landings in your home waters...it's a whole other thing to operate in a hi optempo combat environment and have everything function like clockwork. I was alongside our carriers pumping JP-5 to them while they were conducting combat flight ops during the first days of the Iraq War. No other country can match us....no one can match our Navy's professionalism on the flight deck.

 

[Navy1960]

They may have them but carrier tactics and flight ops are completely alien to these country's.

I would not go so far as to say that, the UK, the French and the Russians have been operating Carriers for over 45 years and one would assume that in that time they have developed the ability to carry out flight operations and carrier tactics . In fact the Steam Catapult that the US Navy has used on many different classes of Aircraft Carriers since the end of WW2 and has used for sometime is an invention first proposed by a UK Commander Colin Mitchell. While it's true that the our nations carrier tactics and operations would be somewhat alien to all those nations, the operation of aircraft from carriers and the ability to force project from that carriers is not something that is a foreign concept to those nations. I can't believe you folks have me defending the Russian Navy here lol . I would say the only nation this might apply to across the board would have to be China or perhaps nations that have no experience in Carrier operations.

I beg to differ Navy1960...the last time the Brits used any sort of carrier tactics or warfare was the Falklands war...proir to that WW2. The French? The Japanese haven't had carriers since WW2 and they are far ahead of anyone in this group. The Indian Navy while appearing formidable on paper is in fact in it's infancy as a projector of power...same with the Russian Navy as they lost their edge until the oil money started flowing into their treasury. It's all well and good to get your carrier underway and get some pilots some flight time and a few night landings in your home waters...it's a whole other thing to operate in a hi optempo combat environment and have everything function like clockwork. I was alongside our carriers pumping JP-5 to them while they were conducting combat flight ops during the first days of the Iraq War. No other country can match us....no one can match our Navy's professionalism on the flight deck.

You will not get an argument out of me on the point of professionalism and who has the best Navy as far as carrier operations are concerned. I was pointing out that though that to simply dismiss those nations as not having any carrier operations experience does not recognize that they have have been operating carriers for many years. I'm fully well aware what it means to operate in a combat environment aboard a Carrier and with a Carrier Air Wing as well as the professionalism displayed by the US Navy that is unmatched by any other Navy.

Thought you might like to see somethimg

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIWVdpsFLy8]YouTube - US Marines embark Harriers onto HMS Illustrious[/ame]

Just think its a little dismissive to out and out say that the UK and other nations know nothing about Carrier operations when the clearly do. In fact the US Navy and the Royal Navy have many times conducted joint operations.

The British aircraft carrier HMS Invincible was due to arrive in the Gulf towards the end of January 1999, in order to commence joint operations with US Navy forces. Her escort group initially included the Type 22 frigates HMS Boxer and HMS Cumberland, plus the Type 42 destroyer HMS Newcastle, supported by the RFAs Bayleaf, Fort Austin and Brambleleaf. The First Sea Lord, Admiral Sir Michael Boyce has revealed that the Tomahawk-armed attack boat HMS Splendid was standing by to intervene in the Gulf if needed. HMS Invincible was ordered to the region without the benefit of Harrier GR7 strike aircraft aboard. Her air group for the deployment consisted of nine Sea Harrier FA2 fighters and a dozen Sea King helicopters. The British carrier set sail from Portsmouth on January 9 with tension in the Gulf rising dramatically as Iraq became overtly defiant in the wake of air strikes at the end of 1998.
The Desert Fox blitz of December 17 - 20 last year is alleged to have significantly degraded Iraqi military capability. American and British warplanes flew over 650 missions, with aircraft from the carrier USS Enterprise leading the assault. USN warships also launched 325 Tomahawk cruise missiles. The USS Carl Vinson Battle Group entered the fray in the final hours.

As 1998 drew to a close the Iraqis went on the offensive, firing Surface to Air Missiles (SAMs) at British and American warplanes patrolling No-Fly Zones over Iraq. Then, with the New Year of 2000 only five days old, F-14 Tomcat fighters from the USS Carl Vinson and USAF F-15 Eagles were involved in clashes with Iraqi Mig and Mirage fighters over the Southern No-Fly Zone.
The Jan 5 forays by Saddam’s jets into the No-Fly Zone were the first air-to-air encounters between Iraqi and American aircraft since 1992.
Warships Magazine - WAR ON TERROR SPECIAL

 

[Big Fitz]

You are not part of the solution. You ARE the problem.

You mean forwarding the cause of global fascism? Correct. I am it's fervent enemy.

Some things don't deserve a point.

Correct, you are quite pointless.

I do find it interesting you want to gulag me for daring to criticize your god.

Don't worry Chicken Little. The sky's not falling. But the buckles on your white jacket have come undone. We'll send a note to your "keepers" that you, once again, "got out".
Must be awful to live in such fear.

BOO!

Seig heil to you too, sport.

 

[Toronado3800]

They may have them but carrier tactics and flight ops are completely alien to these country's.

I would not go so far as to say that, the UK, the French and the Russians have been operating Carriers for over 45 years and one would assume that in that time they have developed the ability to carry out flight operations and carrier tactics . In fact the Steam Catapult that the US Navy has used on many different classes of Aircraft Carriers since the end of WW2 and has used for sometime is an invention first proposed by a UK Commander Colin Mitchell. While it's true that the our nations carrier tactics and operations would be somewhat alien to all those nations, the operation of aircraft from carriers and the ability to force project from that carriers is not something that is a foreign concept to those nations. I can't believe you folks have me defending the Russian Navy here lol . I would say the only nation this might apply to across the board would have to be China or perhaps nations that have no experience in Carrier operations.

I beg to differ Navy1960...the last time the Brits used any sort of carrier tactics or warfare was the Falklands war...proir to that WW2. The French? The Japanese haven't had carriers since WW2 and they are far ahead of anyone in this group. The Indian Navy while appearing formidable on paper is in fact in it's infancy as a projector of power...same with the Russian Navy as they lost their edge until the oil money started flowing into their treasury. It's all well and good to get your carrier underway and get some pilots some flight time and a few night landings in your home waters...it's a whole other thing to operate in a hi optempo combat environment and have everything function like clockwork. I was alongside our carriers pumping JP-5 to them while they were conducting combat flight ops during the first days of the Iraq War. No other country can match us....no one can match our Navy's professionalism on the flight deck.

Don't laugh off the rest of the world. The winner of the last war typically perfects its tactics while the losers don't have the money invested in maintaining the dated infrastructure and HAVE to look forward to the next.

I really don't think drones are the answer against a first or for that matter second rate military opponent.

Also over reliance on satellite tech is assuming another nation isn't going to "run their satellites into ours" or hasn't armed anything they sent up more than we have.

The nuclear tip torpedo is terrifying. Even more so is an "unconventional" nuclear tip low speed "hovering" torpedo/mine. Big aircraft carriers are big expensive targets. Everyone in the Chinese military must be thinking of creative ways of taking them out.

And don't dismiss them creative ways. Taranto and Pearl Harbor both took some ingenuity and superiority of understanding of what was then modern warfare by non-americans.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Hey Navy perhaps my question wasn't worded as well I it should have been. My question about range and capability of air to air missiles was to ask your opinion of how our BEST air to air compares to Russias BEST air to air. I think you mentioned that the only confirmed "kill" of a F-22 was by an F-16 varient with an OTH missile shot.

The point I am trying to get across is EVEN IF the Russians had an aircraft that was IN EVERY WAY as good or better than our F-22 would it have MISSILES that are as good or better than ours?

 

[SwingVoter]

Barry cancels the F-22

big bad Russia now produces less than 10% of what we do, and has an economy based on 17 year old hackers writing computer viruses

I'll take bets that if I fly over St. Petersburg and drop water balloons out of a Cessna, they'd surrender

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Maybe laser guided water balloons. LOL!