Rugby Star Slapped Down for Pro Christian/Anti Gay Comments

[idb]

We have freedom of speech. We also have repercussions as a result of that speech. You will not be censored, but it does not necessarily stop the after effects.

Here in the U.S., I think the case would be pretty clear. It appears that Mr. Folau was fired for expressing his legitimate religious beliefs, outside of the context of his work. This makes it a clear cut case of religious discrimination on the part of his employer, which would be blatantly illegal here in the U.S., and in any event, ethically and morally unjustifiable, even if it is legal where it occurred.

I found this article…

Rugby Australia reportedly face financial ruin in Israel Folau case

…which states that the Rugby Australia organization could be put “on the precipice of insolvency” if it loses this case. If so, then I have not a bit of sympathy for them. They should have thought of the possible consequences,as well as the moral implications, before they made the choice to engage in such an outrageous violation of their employee's basic human rights to freedom of religion and expression. Perhaps their ruin will stand as an example to other organizations and employers contemplating similar offenses.

He was fired for displaying bigotry...nothing to do with religious expression.

 

[toobfreak]

SYDNEY—"The firing of one of Australia’s best-known sports stars for saying gay people are headed for hell has exposed social fault lines and sparked debate about what constitutes religious expression."
Australian Rugby Star’s Anti-Gay Post Exposes Fault Lines Over Religious Freedom
Freedom of speech now means the freedom NOT to criticize homosexuals or have your career ended and your bank account wiped out.
In the West are we seeing a new movement that ends expression of thoughts and views that upsets the gay community Of course we are.
Israel Folau listed many behaviors that would get one sent to hell, in his view. But the one that is ending his
sports career is criticism of homosexuality.
As the saying goes see who it is that you are not allowed to criticize to see who it is who is running a society.

Oddly enough, the Bibles says homosexuality is a SIN.

Unrepentant sin send you to hell. That is the foundation of Christian belief.

Australia has now elevated gays above scrutiny and made christian faith socially evil by conflating it with hate-speech.

I don't know if I would have said it, but this guy should sue their asses off. Of course, this is Australia. Might as well be in Canada.

 

[Pogo]

It’s perfectly appropriate for private society to condemn bigotry and hate.

Bigots are at liberty to exhibit their ignorance and hate, and they’re solely responsible for the consequences of doing so.

Except he simply tweeted a bible verse related to 8 types of people needing to repent. Homosexuals were just 1 of the 8. If he had sad "Queers need to be murdered" I would agree with you. However, it is not appropriate to punish people for expressing their faith and you can't get more grounded in doing that than quoting from your particular religion's central text.

Too bad he didn't quote the passage about dashing babies' heads against the rocks, or pimping out one's own daughters.

Wrong book dude try pappy Mohammed's
Diary.


Jo

Don't need to.

"Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks!" --- Psalm 137:9

"4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house. And they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.” Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof.” --- Genesis 19: 4-8

You got that, right? Do what you want to my daughters but leave these guys alone for they have come under the shelter of my roof. Which leaves us wondering what his daughters came under. Oh wait, I remember. Patriarchy.

What else Lot did with those daughters is something it would be against site rules to post here. But it's just a click away.(Cue Merry Clayton: "it's just a click away... it's just a click away... it's just a click away, click away, click away....)

 

[Pogo]

SYDNEY—"The firing of one of Australia’s best-known sports stars for saying gay people are headed for hell has exposed social fault lines and sparked debate about what constitutes religious expression."
Australian Rugby Star’s Anti-Gay Post Exposes Fault Lines Over Religious Freedom
Freedom of speech now means the freedom NOT to criticize homosexuals or have your career ended and your bank account wiped out.
In the West are we seeing a new movement that ends expression of thoughts and views that upsets the gay community Of course we are.
Israel Folau listed many behaviors that would get one sent to hell, in his view. But the one that is ending his
sports career is criticism of homosexuality.
As the saying goes see who it is that you are not allowed to criticize to see who it is who is running a society.

Oddly enough, the Bibles says homosexuality is a SIN.

Unrepentant sin send you to hell. That is the foundation of Christian belief.

Australia has now elevated gays above scrutiny and made christian faith socially evil by conflating it with hate-speech.

I don't know if I would have said it, but this guy should sue their asses off. Of course, this is Australia. Might as well be in Canada.

"Sue their asses off" on what basis?

 

[toobfreak]

SYDNEY—"The firing of one of Australia’s best-known sports stars for saying gay people are headed for hell has exposed social fault lines and sparked debate about what constitutes religious expression."
Australian Rugby Star’s Anti-Gay Post Exposes Fault Lines Over Religious Freedom
Freedom of speech now means the freedom NOT to criticize homosexuals or have your career ended and your bank account wiped out.
In the West are we seeing a new movement that ends expression of thoughts and views that upsets the gay community Of course we are.
Israel Folau listed many behaviors that would get one sent to hell, in his view. But the one that is ending his
sports career is criticism of homosexuality.
As the saying goes see who it is that you are not allowed to criticize to see who it is who is running a society.

Oddly enough, the Bibles says homosexuality is a SIN.

Unrepentant sin send you to hell. That is the foundation of Christian belief.

Australia has now elevated gays above scrutiny and made christian faith socially evil by conflating it with hate-speech.

I don't know if I would have said it, but this guy should sue their asses off. Of course, this is Australia. Might as well be in Canada.

"Sue their asses off" on what basis?

Religious persecution or discrimination.

 

[Slyhunter]

It is illegal to express Christian beliefs. But not illegal for Islamics to do so?

 

[Pogo]

SYDNEY—"The firing of one of Australia’s best-known sports stars for saying gay people are headed for hell has exposed social fault lines and sparked debate about what constitutes religious expression."
Australian Rugby Star’s Anti-Gay Post Exposes Fault Lines Over Religious Freedom
Freedom of speech now means the freedom NOT to criticize homosexuals or have your career ended and your bank account wiped out.
In the West are we seeing a new movement that ends expression of thoughts and views that upsets the gay community Of course we are.
Israel Folau listed many behaviors that would get one sent to hell, in his view. But the one that is ending his
sports career is criticism of homosexuality.
As the saying goes see who it is that you are not allowed to criticize to see who it is who is running a society.

Oddly enough, the Bibles says homosexuality is a SIN.

Unrepentant sin send you to hell. That is the foundation of Christian belief.

Australia has now elevated gays above scrutiny and made christian faith socially evil by conflating it with hate-speech.

I don't know if I would have said it, but this guy should sue their asses off. Of course, this is Australia. Might as well be in Canada.

"Sue their asses off" on what basis?

Religious persecution or discrimination.

Where did anyone curtail his religious rights?

You know what a "morals clause" is?

 

[Pogo]

It would seem a few posters here including the OP missed out on the Duck Dynasty threads when that came up, so here's a refresher course:

>> A morals clause (or morality clause or bad boy clause or bad girl clause) is a provision within instruments of a contract which curtail, or restrain, or proscribe certain behavior of individuals or party(s) to the contract.

A moral clause within contracts used as a means of holding the individual or party(s) to a certain behavioral standard so as not to bring disrepute, contempt or scandal to other individual or party to the contract and their interests. It attempts to preserve a public and private image of such a party to the contract. In essence one party to the contract is purchasing the other party's good name or reputation. These clauses are most seen in contracts between actors and actresses and their studios, athletes and their organization or proprietors of a product that the athlete(s) may endorse or as a part of a marital settlement. Commonly proscribed activity include the use or abuse of alcohol, the use of illegal drugs or narcotics or illegal or illicit sexual activity.[1] << --- Wiki
​

Example excerpt from NFL Standard Player Contract:

Par. 2: EMPLOYMENT AND SERVICES. Club employs Player as a skilled football player. Player accepts such employment. He agrees to give his best efforts and loyalty to the Club, and to conduct himself on and off the field with appropriate recognition of the fact that the success of professional football depends largely on public respect for and approval of those associated with the game
.
Par. 11: SKILL, PERFORMANCE AND CONDUCT. ...If at any time, in the sole judgment of Club,...if Player has engaged in personal conduct reasonably judged by Club to adversely affect or reflect on Club, then Club may terminate this contract.

Par. 15: INTEGRITY OF GAME.
Player recognizes the detriment to the League and professional football that would result from impairment of public confidence in the...integrity and good character of NFL players. Player therefore acknowledges his awareness that if he...is guilty of any other form of conduct reasonably judged by the League Commissioner to be detrimental to the League or professional football, the Commissioner will have the right, but only after giving Player the opportunity for a hearing at which he may be represented by counsel of his choice, to fine Player in a reasonable amount; to suspend Player for a period certain or indefinitely; and/or to terminate this contract. -- Current Ethical Issues in Sports Law

​

Those of you who are baseball fans will recall several players disciplined with suspensions for, for instance, domestic violence arrests. That's the morals clause.

 

[idb]

It is illegal to express Christian beliefs. But not illegal for Islamics to do so?

No.

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

As conservatives are fond of saying....free speech doesn't mean NO CONSEQUENCES. He exercised his deranged ignorant hate speech and he suffered the consequences.


good.

Speaking of consequences...Folau leaves HQ after rugby war

Not what you were expecting, I'm guessing. Nobody likes bullies, except you apparently.

I wouldn't have said what Folau did. I wouldn't have tried to end his career and livelihood
because of it either but that's not how you eye for an eye fundamentalist types operate, is it

 

[toobfreak]

Where did anyone curtail his religious rights?

Lessee, guy gets fired from his job for expressing his millennia-old christian beliefs held the world over by more people than anything, his moral-bound christian duty, and Pogo asks: "Where did anyone curtail his religious rights?"

Gee, who could've seen it coming, another deliberately obtuse and circuitous line of questioning from a person who never himself answers a single question.

A better question would be to ask how a baker not wishing to bake an offensive cake curtailed any of the rights or life of a gay couple who had 10,000 other bakeries to go to instead?

Yet the government (Eric Holder) sued them and tried to close their business!

 

[idb]

What will upset the apologists even more is that GoFundMe pulled the fundraising page that Folau set up to help pay for his legal expenses.
Israel Folau's GoFundMe page shut down

 

[Jitss617]

It’s perfectly appropriate for private society to condemn bigotry and hate.

Bigots are at liberty to exhibit their ignorance and hate, and they’re solely responsible for the consequences of doing so.

90% of daily violence happens in towns run by democrats.. it’s your speech not ours

 

[Dekster]

It’s perfectly appropriate for private society to condemn bigotry and hate.

Bigots are at liberty to exhibit their ignorance and hate, and they’re solely responsible for the consequences of doing so.

Except he simply tweeted a bible verse related to 8 types of people needing to repent. Homosexuals were just 1 of the 8. If he had sad "Queers need to be murdered" I would agree with you. However, it is not appropriate to punish people for expressing their faith and you can't get more grounded in doing that than quoting from your particular religion's central text.

Exactly right.
I know you'd be happy with someone suddenly shouting "Allahu Akbar" on your plane when you're 30,000 feet up...many bigots wouldn't.

Fine with me. I will have my ear plugs in due to the crying baby that comes standard on every flight.

 

[Pogo]

Where did anyone curtail his religious rights?

Lessee, guy gets fired from his job for expressing his millennia-old christian beliefs held the world over by more people than anything, his moral-bound christian duty, and Pogo asks: "Where did anyone curtail his religious rights?"

Correct. And I'm not seeing an answer.

I'm not seeing Rugby Australia, or any other entity, preventing this guy from following whatever religious precepts he wants to. I'm not seeing any entity demanding he follow one religious course or not follow another. That's why I asked. It was after all your idea.

Are you trying to tell us that he, or people in general, have a "right" to a job no matter what? What are you, some kind of socialist?

I also asked if you knew what a morals clause is. Then, assuming the negative, I explained it. No response to that either. Yanno what, let's just pretend it's not there. Hell, let's pretend that professional athletes don't even have contracts. They just play for free.

 

[toobfreak]

Where did anyone curtail his religious rights?

Lessee, guy gets fired from his job for expressing his millennia-old christian beliefs held the world over by more people than anything, his moral-bound christian duty, and Pogo asks: "Where did anyone curtail his religious rights?"

Correct. And I'm not seeing an answer.

I'm not seeing Rugby Australia, or any other entity, preventing this guy from following whatever religious precepts he wants to. I'm not seeing any entity demanding he follow one religious course or not follow another. That's why I asked. It was after all your idea.

Are you trying to tell us that he, or people in general, have a "right" to a job no matter what? What are you, some kind of socialist?

I also asked if you knew what a morals clause is. Then, assuming the negative, I explained it. No response to that either. Yanno what, let's just pretend it's not there. Hell, let's pretend that professional athletes don't even have contracts. They just play for free.

It is in the NFL team guideline that players salute the flag and pledge of allegiance, yet I don't see any player getting fired for kneeling. When you get fired from your job for merely expressing your own religious views, when bakers are sued by the government and tried to close them out of business because they found a request offensive, you are being discriminated against. No different than being fired for being old, or black or a woman. The message is clear, Christianity is NOT welcome, Christianity is under attack all over, so much so to the point that when getting in office, Trump expressly said he would work to reverse much of those efforts in this country, but speak it in Australia at least, and you now do so at your own risk.

Say anything you want as a Black.
Say anything you want as a Muslim.
Say anything you want as a Gay.
But don't you dare speak out on behalf of the Christian faith while representing or working under any kind of secular organization. They will stomp you like a bug.

Sorry if the discrimination, prejudice and bias in all that somehow escapes you, but then, most things somehow do.

 

[Pogo]

Where did anyone curtail his religious rights?

Lessee, guy gets fired from his job for expressing his millennia-old christian beliefs held the world over by more people than anything, his moral-bound christian duty, and Pogo asks: "Where did anyone curtail his religious rights?"

Correct. And I'm not seeing an answer.

I'm not seeing Rugby Australia, or any other entity, preventing this guy from following whatever religious precepts he wants to. I'm not seeing any entity demanding he follow one religious course or not follow another. That's why I asked. It was after all your idea.

Are you trying to tell us that he, or people in general, have a "right" to a job no matter what? What are you, some kind of socialist?

I also asked if you knew what a morals clause is. Then, assuming the negative, I explained it. No response to that either. Yanno what, let's just pretend it's not there. Hell, let's pretend that professional athletes don't even have contracts. They just play for free.

It is in the NFL team guideline that players salute the flag and pledge of allegiance, yet I don't see any player getting fired for kneeling.

.
Actually no, it isn't, but it's irrelevant anyway as we're dealing with "immoral" behaviour, i.e. in this context, that which would cast the employer (team) in a negative light. Kneelling does not meet that test. And it especially doesn't meet that test when the whole team including the owner is doing it in a gesture of patriotic solidarity.

When you get fired from your job for merely expressing your own religious views, when bakers are sued by the government and tried to close them out of business because they found a request offensive, you are being discriminated against.

Perhaps. But again, irrelevant here, same reason. Not present.

Tell the class how this rugby player is being "prevented" from exercising his religion. Or how he's being forced to follow a different one against his will. That was and still is the question.

No different than being fired for being old, or black or a woman.

Yeah, "no different". I woke up today and decided, "hey, I think I'll be old today" . SMH

The message is clear, Christianity is NOT welcome, Christianity is under attack all over, so much so to the point that when getting in office, Trump expressly said he would work to reverse much of those efforts in this country, but speak it in Australia at least, and you now do so at your own risk.

Say anything you want as a Black.
Say anything you want as a Muslim.
Say anything you want as a Gay.
But don't you dare speak out on behalf of the Christian faith while representing or working under any kind of secular organization. They will stomp you like a bug.

Sorry if the discrimination, prejudice and bias in all that somehow escapes you, but then, most things somehow do.

Better get on those questions. They're getting moldy for lack of activity.

 

[Montrovant]

Where did anyone curtail his religious rights?

Lessee, guy gets fired from his job for expressing his millennia-old christian beliefs held the world over by more people than anything, his moral-bound christian duty, and Pogo asks: "Where did anyone curtail his religious rights?"

Gee, who could've seen it coming, another deliberately obtuse and circuitous line of questioning from a person who never himself answers a single question.

A better question would be to ask how a baker not wishing to bake an offensive cake curtailed any of the rights or life of a gay couple who had 10,000 other bakeries to go to instead?

Yet the government (Eric Holder) sued them and tried to close their business!

I don't know if you are a fan of any American sports, but athletes are often fined or penalized or even fired for their off-the-field behavior. Things completely unrelated to the team or sport an athlete is part of can and do get them fired. And as the article I linked to earlier stated, this was not a one time event; apparently this particular rugby player had multiple instances of posting things to social media that the league felt violated their codes of conduct, and the player was warned on multiple occasions before being let go.