Rubio: Russian Use of Nuclear Weapons Would Trigger Article 5

He's correct even though I'm no fan of Rubio.

Putin is also not a fool, he knows the first use of a nuke means the destruction of Russia, every thing, and every one he ever cared about including himself.

He's not willing to risk that for Ukraine so we need to calm down and deal with first the likely and most likely while just keeping an eye on the least likely including the use of Nukes.

He's far more likely to employ Chemical weapons which he has a lot of experience with in recent conflicts.
Putin is a psychopath---a true one--

He is incapable of caring about others----he feels no love for anyone but himself
Psycopaths are notoriously VINDICTIVE as fuck----if he loses, he will lash out for SPITE and PUNSISHMENT. We are already seeing this.
 
Who is discussing it? People who are paid to try and find a way to win? Well, that would rule out the US military. Still, anyone with any brains knows that there will be no winners.


Only survivors.

Not necessarily. You seem to assume Putin sees it the same as we do.

In the current context, Putin could view nuclear weapons use as necessary to ensure Russian national security interests are not derailed by overt Western military support to Ukrainian efforts—which would be in line with stated Russian doctrine. One course of action could be a so-called demonstration strike with a single low-yield nuclear detonation in Ukraine or over the Black Sea to serve as a dramatic warning that resistance to Russia’s military campaign must be ended, backed by the compellent threat of further tactical nuclear attacks. There is no question that Putin has already signaled the use of nuclear weapons as an option, and he has stated his (alleged) concern about nuclear weapons being stationed in Ukraine for use against Russia.
Would Russia Use a Tactical Nuclear Weapon in Ukraine? - Modern War Institute
 
Putin is a psychopath---a true one--

He is incapable of caring about others----he feels no love for anyone but himself
Psycopaths are notoriously VINDICTIVE as fuck----if he loses, he will lash out for SPITE and PUNSISHMENT. We are already seeing this.
He's old school KGB...screw the west....decadent scum....he's already made those comments.
 
Putin is a psychopath---a true one--

He is incapable of caring about others----he feels no love for anyone but himself
Psycopaths are notoriously VINDICTIVE as fuck----if he loses, he will lash out for SPITE and PUNSISHMENT. We are already seeing this.
I won't argue any of that but what he won't do is destroy his own country over Ukraine so nukes are simply off of the table.

There's a genuine concern however of their employing chemical weapons.

Hell, they've already been using Thermobaric, "vacuum bombs" on civilian targets and that alone is a war crime.

Stepping up to the use of Chemical Weapons with his record of doing so repeatedly in the past is a far greater concern.

He's a sociopath, not a psychopath and an extreme nationalist trying write himself into the history books as the father of a revived, resurgent Russian Empire.

To that end he's willing to do a lot but going nuclear would destroy that dream and obsession.
 
If anything, I see it the other way. The West doesn't understand Putin. They seem to think that he adheres to some western values like being a Pariah (they love that word) and that he should just accept that we've been lying to him for the past 50 years.
I seriously doubt that is the case. Knowing his background everyone knows he's an unapologetic liar and consummate spin master.
 
If anything, I see it the other way. The West doesn't understand Putin. They seem to think that he adheres to some western values like being a Pariah (they love that word) and that he should just accept that we've been lying to him for the past 50 years.

That's what I was hitting on. They think he's gone mad, losing his marbles. I think he's a cool, calculating tactician. Only problem I see, is it appears he's been fed BS by his underlings as far as readiness.
 
"If radioactive material blows across the Polish border, they would argue they’ve been attacked,” he added.
Possibly, but the reality is that none of us KNOW what would happen in the period after such an event. My guess would be a lot of posturing but no immediate decision on a response. IF that's the case then he'd feel like he could do it again. OTOH, if NATO reciprocated immediately and sent troops across the border into Ukraine to help eject Russian forces, Putin would almost certainly use tactical nukes against THEM.

The best hope is that he's bluffing and will angle for forcing NATO to negotiate a favorable stance on Ukraine. I have no animosity toward Ukrainians. I don't, however, want to see the world lit up with nukes over it!
 
That's what I was hitting on. They think he's gone mad, losing his marbles. I think he's a cool, calculating tactician. Only problem I see, is it appears he's been fed BS by his underlings as far as readiness.
Someone has been blowing smoke up his skirt, to be sure. But regardless, this talk of his actions being 'unprovoked' or 'unwarranted' are just nonsense.

When you think your enemy is lying to you and then they say they have no desire to put weapons on your border...

... well any reasonable person can see the dilemma.

The problem is, the leadership in the West is controlled by the media and the media have a "Winston Churchill" in their teeth and they are going to milk that for all its worth. After all, its all about the ratings and sticking it to the right.

They don't really care how many are killed to get it.
 
Dude, Russia pops a 500Kt flash bang, I don't think Article 5 will be an issue at all.
True, but what if they pop a 5KT? It would gut a city center and if detonated high enough would have relatively negligible fallout. They outnumber us 10:1 in that class of nuke, today. His newest nuke doctrine includes the plan to use such low-yield weapons in a conventional war where his forces are outmatched.
 
True, but what if they pop a 5KT? It would gut a city center and if detonated high enough would have relatively negligible fallout. They outnumber us 10:1 in that class of nuke, today. His newest nuke doctrine includes the plan to use such low-yield weapons in a conventional war where his forces are outmatched.

And we keep poking him in the ass. I heard tonight, US troops are massed on the Polish border, no reporters allowed.

This will get out of hand.
 
If you really don't understand the ramifications of "going nuclear" you need to do some serious studying up.
A few years back, seeing the obvious imbalance of forces with the U.S., let alone all of NATO, little Vlad made himself some new rules. Maybe it's all a bluff but if it isn't, discovering that at the cost of a vaporized NATO base or a U.S. aircraft carrier is NOT an ideal situation.
 
And we keep poking him in the ass. I heard tonight, US troops are massed on the Polish border, no reporters allowed.

This will get out of hand.
I'm beginning to seriously fear that as well. This shit has gotten insane. Politics could cause the end of this nation because of the installation of a man so weak and mentally challenged that Xi or Putin become willing to roll the dice. IF THAT HAPPENS I pray that I live long enough to hear that DC was vaporized FIRST...
 
Dirty bombs are like Chernobyl.

That link is a pretty good primer on LY nukes. They aren't equivalent to "dirty bombs" or Neutron bombs that kill with high radiation. They work like their huge brothers but they don't have nearly as much power. Our B61 class can be manually adjusted between a range of strengths.

From the piece^

"According to Bell and Cirincione, about1,000 bombs in this stockpile are low-yield nuclear weapons. Around 150 are currently in Europe, Cirincione said, while the rest have been pulled back to the U.S."

Nearly half of this low-yield stockpile is in the form of “gravity bombs” or “airdrop” bombs called B-61s. Cirincione said these are not traditional low-yield weapons because they can be calibrated to a specific explosive yield ranging from .3 kilotons to 50 kilotons.

As Gollum would say - "Very Dangerous, Precious"
 

That link is a pretty good primer on LY nukes. They aren't equivalent to "dirty bombs" or Neutron bombs that kill with high radiation. They work like their huge brothers but they don't have nearly as much power. Our B61 class can be manually adjusted between a range of strengths.

From the piece^

"According to Bell and Cirincione, about1,000 bombs in this stockpile are low-yield nuclear weapons. Around 150 are currently in Europe, Cirincione said, while the rest have been pulled back to the U.S."

Nearly half of this low-yield stockpile is in the form of “gravity bombs” or “airdrop” bombs called B-61s. Cirincione said these are not traditional low-yield weapons because they can be calibrated to a specific explosive yield ranging from .3 kilotons to 50 kilotons.

As Gollum would say - "Very Dangerous, Precious"

Dial-a-yeild

Always liked those neutron devices......real estate salesman's dream.
 
Shouldn't we loan Ukraine a few medium nukes delivered by artillery? I am sure we are never going to use them...
 

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