Ron Paul: Federal Response To Hurricane Unnecessary

[The T]

No, there are no liberoidal goofballs defending Dr. Paul.

He is, however, exactly right in that there's no real need at all for FEMA.

Yeah, I know that no liberals are defending Paul (and for good reason). It's the kooky cons who are defending him. And as we've seen from your posts, your defense is extremely weak.

FEMA should be let loose only if requested .The agency is bloated and ineffective.
BTW, your side went cuckoo for cocoa puffs when FEMA didn't move it's collective ass quickly enough to save New Orleans.

That's because you had a dork for a Mayor in NOLA, and an ineffectual Governor of the State that waited until the last minute. The President cannot send squat until it is requested.

 

[Oddball]

Wait a minute. Oddball blames Ray Nagin and the local government for Katrina. Yet he somehow thinks the states alone are capable of dealing with responding to hurricanes and other disasters. Can someone tell me how that works?

So, the answer to political bungling at the state level is that such ineptitude becomes solved at the federal level?

BRILLIANT!

 

[Greenbeard]

Turds like Paul have no clue.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency coordinates the federal government's role in preparing for, preventing, mitigating the effects of, responding to, and recovering from all domestic disasters, whether natural or man-made, including acts of terror. FEMA can trace its beginnings to the Congressional Act of 1803. This act, generally considered the first piece of disaster legislation, provided assistance to a New Hampshire town following an extensive fire. In the century that followed, ad hoc legislation was passed more than 100 times in response to hurricanes, earthquakes, floods and other natural disasters.

FEMA: FEMA History

Federal disaster assistance? Sounds like a bunch of socialists. If only Ron Paul had been around to explain the Constitution to the founding generation.

 

[GHook93]

The guy is a fool. He would say get rid of the FBI and let the states handle. He ignores the fact that in 20s and 30s before the FBI, bank robberies would rob a bank in one state and race for the state border. Then they would rob a bank in the next state. The states were powerless to stop this, since their jurisdiction stopped at the state lines!

Comparing FEMA with the FBI is apples and submarines.

Get real.

He says to get rid of the no? Along with CIA, NSA, ICE, DHS, Border Partol etc. It's the same radical erroneous thinking that State government always works better than the Federal government. I beg this stroker to come down to Springfield IL and say that!

 

[Oddball]

The guy is a fool. He would say get rid of the FBI and let the states handle. He ignores the fact that in 20s and 30s before the FBI, bank robberies would rob a bank in one state and race for the state border. Then they would rob a bank in the next state. The states were powerless to stop this, since their jurisdiction stopped at the state lines!

Comparing FEMA with the FBI is apples and submarines.

Get real.

He says to get rid of the no? Along with CIA, NSA, ICE, DHS, Border Partol etc. It's the same radical erroneous thinking that State government always works better than the Federal government. I beg this stroker to come down to Springfield IL and say that!

He says to gradually shrink the FEMA bureaucracy and devolve its functions, not end it overnight.

Comparing FEMA to CIA, NSA and Border Patrol is erroneous, as national defense and controlling national borders are legitimate federal functions....DHS is just plain old duplication of those functions and basically useless.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

You need to try again. There is no defending Paul on this one. It was an extremely ignorant statement (and not too smart for somebody who represents a state that is prone to hurricanes and wildfires). I'm guessing we'll be hearing the backpedaling from Paul in about 24 hours.

You'd be wrong.

We'll see about that.

Hate to say I told you so, but...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b5fj0eR3sg]Ron Paul Interview On Fox News Sunday: Talks Fema, Libya, Mises & More - YouTube[/ame]

 

[The T]

Ron Paul thinks states don't need FEMA to help with natural disasters. I guess he should tell Rick Perry to give all of that money back. I don't understand why cons love this guy so much. He sounds like a loon to me.



Yeah, Paul, Galveston is in your district. And what happened in Galveston 100 or so years ago? A hurricane that killed thousands. Too bad we can't go back to the way things were in 1900, when thousands died because of a lack of emergency preparedness.

Silly idea, Ron.

Imagining that all our problems will be solved if we take the powers of the FED and put all that authority into state governments is a perfect example of conservatives' MAGICAL THINKING.

Does he imagine that STATE goverments are not also subject to the same nefarious forces that are screwing up our Federal government, or something?

Well he's dead wrong to imagine that.

As to shutting down FEMA?

Interstate cooperation in nature disasters makes good sense as natural disasters are not beholden to state lines.

What's magical thinking is the notion that you can wave the magic wand of federal bureaucracy and it'll somehow perform feats of wizardry unheard of amongst the hoi polloi.

BTW, whatever became of all those travel trailers destined to be used buy Katrina victims?

FEMA's sale of Katrina trailers sparks criticism<March 2010

 

[NYcarbineer]

The federal government has a legitimate interest and legitimate cause to be involved in natural disasters that are multi-state/regional in their scope.

 

[Modbert]

So, the answer to political bungling at the state level is that such ineptitude becomes solved at the federal level?

BRILLIANT!

That doesn't quite address what I said and you know it.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The federal government has a legitimate interest and legitimate cause to be involved in natural disasters that are multi-state/regional in their scope.

True.

To suggest otherwise is idiocy.

 

[Flopper]

Something that was only mentioned in this thread once or twice is that The US Government has no money. We are Broke.

Rand paul stated that in his interview. "
"There's no magic about FEMA. They're a great contribution to deficit financing and quite frankly they don't have a penny in the bank. We should be coordinated but coordinated voluntarily with the states," Paul told NBC News. "A state can decide. We don't need somebody in Washington."
He also eluded to the behavior of FEMA wanting to override the will of the soviergn states in that they are, by law, not to react without a request of the affected State.

When the Affected state does request assistance, it is not assistance that they recieve. FEMA moves in with the effect of martial law and "takes over".

During the Katrina disaster, FEMA proclaimed The Red Cross as the "officially designated" charity for relief efforts. Then The Red Cross came into municipalities and did not consult with those municipalities, but told them what they would recieve and where they would get it from. Some of those municipalities told The Red Cross to leave and called on The Salvation Army who provided needed relief as requested. many smaller non-profits tried to provide assiatance (I was involved with one of them) tried to give resources but because of the "martial law" nature of FEMA, had to go through days of red tape to even be considered as a source and then when they offered their assistance were told that their efforts were insignificant and that they should go away.

Also FEMA bought thousands of trailers that sat on lots, not used or allocated,until they were contaminated with mold and fungus and rendered usless. Those trailers are still being auctioned off in an attempt to recover some spent money.

FEMA has not got a good record of achieving the task.

Oh and did I mention that they are broke (have no money). I guess we will just put the expenses on the credit card, like many other benevolent government programs, and not worry about how we can recover the money until later.

You apparently have no idea what goes into disaster planning and recovery. Each state can not maintain all the resources and plans needed to handle a dozen different types of disasters. Plans and agreements have to be in place before the disaster hits. Resources have to ready to roll. Having each state duplicate the work of a single federal agency would be insane.

In a recovery effort, all parties have to be coordinated. Suppose you need a specially trained fire department search and rescue team in Florida today and you heard there is one in LA. But who is going to co-ordinate getting a the team from Los Angeles to Florida? Could you call up the Air Force and say,. "Hi, this is Jim in Miami, and I need a C-141 to head out to LA, pick up a search team and get them here in Miami tonight." An what if the C-141 is not sufficient? FEMA which is a federal agency reporting directly to Homeland Security can talk directly to the Secretary of the Air Force and tell them what they need, and let the Air Force decide what is the best way to get it there. Last time I checked a local fire department does not have that authority over the armed forces.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Thanks, Ray Nagin!

Say it with me now.

FEMA

I know your idea of disaster recovery is running over people with your V8 Interceptor as you leave Dodge.

But some of us actually like it when people don't die.

People die when they ignore evacuation orders.

Hey how many people in New Orleans who refused to evacuate for Hurricane Ivan died?

Hey how many people in New Orleans who refused to evacuate for Hurricane Georges died?

Hey how many people in New Orleans who refused to evacuate for Hurricane Andrew died?

Each the largest evacuation in U.S. history at the time.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

People like Wal-Mart and Home Depot, who stepped in with tools and supplies after Katrina and Rita.

Wal Mart and Home Depot are not real people.

I was in Bogalusa a few days after the storm. The cops there told us some people were running out of food, diapers, etc. - and that they had plenty of money to buy those things - but couldn't - because the fucking WAL MART was closed

That being said...

Wal-Mart employees arrived so early in the disaster area that they often wound up running their own relief efforts. "If the federal government would have responded as quickly as Wal-Mart, we could have saved more lives," says Jefferson Parish Sheriff Harry Lee. "FEMA executives were there, but they didn't do anything. They weren't up and running for four or five days." In one case, he says, FEMA actually made things more difficult for the retailer. Wal-Mart sent three trailer trucks with water to a FEMA compound. "Much to my dismay, FEMA turned them away," Lee says. "They said they didn't need it.... [Wal-Mart] ended up giving the water directly to us." A FEMA spokeswoman disputes Lee's account.

Harry Lee is telling the truth.

If I recall correctly, Wal Marts contributions in financial terms was more than 10 times higher than EXXONs - despite the fact Exxon is a more local company than Wal Mart. So fuck Exxon, go Wal Mart.

I'm no fan of Walmart but they really responded well to Katrina. Those tax write offs for charitable contribution and nationwide PR served their purpose.

Might be more of a practical thing for a giant like wal-mart - their customers are primarily in the bottom 50% of income earners - if a storm leaves the lower half too bad off (and it always leaves the lower half off worse than the upper) - they won't have anyone to buy their shit.

Either way though, a good deed is a good deed and actions are more important than motivation.

 

[Flopper]

Ron Paul thinks states don't need FEMA to help with natural disasters. I guess he should tell Rick Perry to give all of that money back. I don't understand why cons love this guy so much. He sounds like a loon to me.

First Read - Ron Paul: No FEMA response necessary

GILFORD, N.H. -- After a lunch speech today, Ron Paul slammed the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA, and said that no national response to Hurricane Irene is necessary.
"We should be like 1900; we should be like 1940, 1950, 1960," Paul said. "I live on the Gulf Coast; we deal with hurricanes all the time. Galveston is in my district.

Yeah, Paul, Galveston is in your district. And what happened in Galveston 100 or so years ago? A hurricane that killed thousands. Too bad we can't go back to the way things were in 1900, when thousands died because of a lack of emergency preparedness.

Silly idea, Ron.

Imagining that all our problems will be solved if we take the powers of the FED and put all that authority into state governments is a perfect example of conservatives' MAGICAL THINKING.

Does he imagine that STATE goverments are not also subject to the same nefarious forces that are screwing up our Federal government, or something?

Well he's dead wrong to imagine that.

As to shutting down FEMA?

Interstate cooperation in nature disasters makes good sense as natural disasters are not beholden to state lines.

I have had experience working with both federal and state government. IMHO, federal agencies are better organized, funded, and more capable than state agencies. Many parts of state government is dependent of the federal government. Eliminate FEMA, DOE, or a number of other agencies and you will see cost go up in every state.

Google your state disaster recovery agency and you will see FEMA, FEMA, FEMA plastered everywhere from federal grants to plans to resources. Eliminate FEMA and you're going to explode the size and cost of disaster recovery in every state.

 

[rdean]

Something that was only mentioned in this thread once or twice is that The US Government has no money. We are Broke.

Rand paul stated that in his interview. "
"There's no magic about FEMA. They're a great contribution to deficit financing and quite frankly they don't have a penny in the bank. We should be coordinated but coordinated voluntarily with the states," Paul told NBC News. "A state can decide. We don't need somebody in Washington."
He also eluded to the behavior of FEMA wanting to override the will of the soviergn states in that they are, by law, not to react without a request of the affected State.

When the Affected state does request assistance, it is not assistance that they recieve. FEMA moves in with the effect of martial law and "takes over".

During the Katrina disaster, FEMA proclaimed The Red Cross as the "officially designated" charity for relief efforts. Then The Red Cross came into municipalities and did not consult with those municipalities, but told them what they would recieve and where they would get it from. Some of those municipalities told The Red Cross to leave and called on The Salvation Army who provided needed relief as requested. many smaller non-profits tried to provide assiatance (I was involved with one of them) tried to give resources but because of the "martial law" nature of FEMA, had to go through days of red tape to even be considered as a source and then when they offered their assistance were told that their efforts were insignificant and that they should go away.

Also FEMA bought thousands of trailers that sat on lots, not used or allocated,until they were contaminated with mold and fungus and rendered usless. Those trailers are still being auctioned off in an attempt to recover some spent money.

FEMA has not got a good record of achieving the task.

Oh and did I mention that they are broke (have no money). I guess we will just put the expenses on the credit card, like many other benevolent government programs, and not worry about how we can recover the money until later.

Seems we have enough money to give tax breaks to billionaires, subsidies to oil companies and billions in "free money" to the 12 largest corporations in America. Not to forget rebuilding Iraq, the only Republican success story in the last 20 years (still can't understand why they hate our guts).



These new "fuck America first" Republicans are something else. With their Money Saving "Die quickly" health care plan. And their strategy to see that every elderly American has "cat food". Human rigjhts for corporations.

And their rush to support the neediest Americans, the millionaires, is simply heartfelt. It's nice to see Americans who know where their priorities are.

 

[Oddball]

Google your state disaster recovery agency and you will see FEMA, FEMA, FEMA plastered everywhere from federal grants to plans to resources. Eliminate FEMA and you're going to explode the size and cost of disaster recovery in every state.

Where in hell do you think FEMA gets its money, that friggin' Tooth Fairy?

SHEEEEEEESH!

 

[Oddball]

So, the answer to political bungling at the state level is that such ineptitude becomes solved at the federal level?

BRILLIANT!

That doesn't quite address what I said and you know it.

It fully addresses your lame-assed attempt at making a point.

The ineffective and ham-handed nature of bureaucracy doesn't suddenly change to sweetness and light just because you've moved from state to federal.

 

[Oddball]

Say it with me now.

FEMA

I know your idea of disaster recovery is running over people with your V8 Interceptor as you leave Dodge.

But some of us actually like it when people don't die.

People die when they ignore evacuation orders.

Hey how many people in New Orleans who refused to evacuate for Hurricane Ivan died?

Hey how many people in New Orleans who refused to evacuate for Hurricane Georges died?

Hey how many people in New Orleans who refused to evacuate for Hurricane Andrew died?

Each the largest evacuation in U.S. history at the time.

With the exception that the Katrina evacuation was both ineptly run and, to a great extent, ignored by a pretty large portion of the New Orleans population.

 

[The T]

People die when they ignore evacuation orders.

Hey how many people in New Orleans who refused to evacuate for Hurricane Ivan died?

Hey how many people in New Orleans who refused to evacuate for Hurricane Georges died?

Hey how many people in New Orleans who refused to evacuate for Hurricane Andrew died?

Each the largest evacuation in U.S. history at the time.

With the exception that the Katrina evacuation was both ineptly run and, to a great extent, ignored by a pretty large portion of the New Orleans population.

More precisely? The moochers.

 

[oreo]

Ron Paul thinks states don't need FEMA to help with natural disasters. I guess he should tell Rick Perry to give all of that money back. I don't understand why cons love this guy so much. He sounds like a loon to me.

First Read - Ron Paul: No FEMA response necessary

GILFORD, N.H. -- After a lunch speech today, Ron Paul slammed the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA, and said that no national response to Hurricane Irene is necessary.
"We should be like 1900; we should be like 1940, 1950, 1960," Paul said. "I live on the Gulf Coast; we deal with hurricanes all the time. Galveston is in my district.

Yeah, Paul, Galveston is in your district. And what happened in Galveston 100 or so years ago? A hurricane that killed thousands. Too bad we can't go back to the way things were in 1900, when thousands died because of a lack of emergency preparedness.

UH--you're really not going to compare Irene with the Galveston hurricane of the 1900-are you?-- In the 1900's during the hurricane that hit Galveston--they really didn't have the warning system we have today--(Cuban's tried to warn--but we didn't have the technology to track the direction of this hurricane) and Galveston was caught completely on it's heels. If FEMA was there--they would have died in this storm too.

We had over a week's warning on Katrina--but that didn't mean that people would obey the mandatory evacuation orders. They stayed--went to the football field--and then cried foul when the Federal Government didn't deliver a ppj and bottled water the very next day.

With Joe Biden out on the Golf Course yesterday--means that he wasn't really seriously concerned about this storm either. WHY? Because today we can track it all the way up the coast--wind speed--etc.