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Ron DeSantis 'Will Destroy Our Democracy,' Says Fascism Expert
By Ewan Palmer On 2/27/23 at 8:27 AM EST
DeSantis is a scary scary man. He really does remind me of Mussolini in many ways. He hates opposing opinions.
As a faithful Christian, the correlation between this type of insanity and a lack of belief in God is not lost on me. It confirms 2 Corinthians 4:4 which says that Satan is the ruler of this world and that he has blinded many to the truth of God, such as our lost brother, dblack.DeSantis is ready, willing and able to be the fascist the goons want.
Labels may be ill defined around the edgesThis is a poor definition. It does not distinguish 'fascism' from previous authoritarian/nationalist movements.
Traditionally, one of the Right/Left differences, beginning at the end of the 18th Century, was nationalism vs internationalism. Another one was respect for traditional, hierarchical institutions -- 'Throne and Altar', plus the Army -- vs the desire to rearrange the political (and later, the social/economic) structure of society to be more egalitarian.
For roughly the first half of the 19th Century, the 'Left' was a 'bourgeois' Left -- the rising manufacturing/trading class counterposed to the old land-owning aristocracy. But as economic growth turned peasants into industrial workers, the 'Left' became a socialist Left ... and by the beginning of the 20th Century, was having a lot of success, in Europe at least.
The 'far Right' learned something from that success. And when the Bolsheviks overthrew the bourgeois-democratic Russian government and instituted the first socialist state, they learned something from that as well: the old model of a mass electoral party was outmoded, as well as the old Right program of veneration of the traditional social hierarchy.
The European 'far Right' became revolutionaries: they aped the Socialists' social program, and the Communists' organizational structure (a hard core 'combat party' of professional revolutionaries, rather than a mass-based electoral party).
Mussolini had been the editor of the Italian Socialist Party's newspaper. Hitler named his party the 'National Socialist German Workers Party'.
For political clarity, it's best to use the word 'fascism' for movements like this, not as a catch-all for any authoritarian nationalist movement. (After all, if authoritarian nationalist movements are 'fascist', then Fidel Castro and Mao Tse-Tung were fascists.)
Is there any possibility for a fascist movement, in this sense, in the US? Of course there is. The Republican Party has had a deep contradiction, for the last few decades, between its base -- increasingly, the bottom 2/3 of whites -- and its actual program and leadership, which has always been pro-business and upper-middle class.
Plus, the many of the ideologists of conservatism steal the clothes of the Libertarians when it comes to economics. They don't go quite so far as the genuine Libertarians and propose to auction off the National Parks, but they really don't like such welfare state measures as the US has, like Social Security and Workmen's Compensation and Medicare. But the Republican base would be horrified if their leaders actually moved to dismantle these programs.
So there is the objective possibility, as the Left's program to dissolve the foundations of America proceeds, for the growth of a hard-core, real authoritarian movement on the Right, blaming the usual ethnic scapegoats for our problems, evincing a leftish social program, and systematically forming quasi-military units.
A big military defeat abroad -- increasingly likely as our neo-con/neo-liberals try to maintain us as world hegemon -- combined with a big economic crash, might precipitate something like that.
In 1928, the Nazis got less than 3% of the popular vote in national elections. Five years later, they got 38%. Events can change mass consciousness quickly and dramatically.
At the moment, outright fascists are very unpopular on the Right, despite what liberals would like to , or pretend to, believe, just as outright communists are a tiny minority on the Left, despite what many conservatives seem to think. (For one thing, evangelical Christianity is still a major force on the Right, and most of these people are 'Christian Zionists', running straight into the anti-Semitism of the genuine fascists.)
But it could happen. (Also possible, but much less likely, would be the growth of a mass authoritarian/communist movement on the Left. By 'communist' I mean the real thing, not the pitiful scraggly anarchist mobs of spoiled brats we see now.)
So patriots must organize in anticipation of serious social disorder in our future, but at the same time be firm in our committment to the Rule of Law, with all the precious conquests of civilization that have gone along with it, such Free Speech, Equal Rights, the willingness to settle differences, where possible, through discussion and, if necessary, compromise. These are still valid principles even if our opponents on the Left are abandoning them.
Sure: an illegal and unconstitutional edict from Biden, called the COVID vaccine mandate, that got people fired from their jobs and coerced millions of people to take a dangerous experimental mRNA shot. These have been ruled unconstitutional by SCOTUS.currently, what rights dont you have?
id be interested in your list
honestly, i dont expect you to actually come up with much of a list
Liberal hysteria re Trump and DeSantis etc. -- "Fascism is coming!" -- is nothing new. I've been hearing this for fifty years, first with respect to Richard Nixon, then aimed at Ronald Reagan, and then aimed at poor old George Bush II.I thought Trump was going to destroy our democracy?
LOL
She's a propagandist, not an expert.Ron DeSantis 'Will Destroy Our Democracy,' Says Fascism Expert
By Ewan Palmer On 2/27/23 at 8:27 AM EST
DeSantis is a scary scary man. He really does remind me of Mussolini in many ways. He hates opposing opinions.
I think the way to start is to look first at the social reality we want to talk about: both social/political systems as they exist, and political movements aiming to establish a social/political system.Labels may be ill defined around the edges
My personal definition of fascist means individual ownership of wealth and property but near absolute government control over how the wealth is consumed
That fits the german nazis and modern democrats as well as the chicoms but not Cuba and the old Soviet Union
Where republicans fit in is difficult to say
They talk a good game of limited government but seldom live up to their ideals
Good spin but you have spun away from the truth and did what I said you would do, make excuses. Liberal groups weren't affected. Obama was in charge; Obama handpicked his IRS commissioner, and no one got in trouble over the scandal. Why did no one get into trouble over the IRS admittingly targeting conservative groups?Obama didn't direct a single thing related to those audits. Punishment of Disney for criticizing him is DeSantis' baby. He has orchestrated each and every part of it. From initiating the punishment of Disney for their criticism, to appointing every board member.
DeSantis went as far as to call a special session of the legislature just to pass the laws that allowed him to target his critics for punishment by the State.
The IRS was working with a new rules after a Supreme Court ruling changing political donations and creating PAC. They did unnecessary delays and requests for additional information of both conservative and liberal groups as they worked out the new rules...with the vast majority (70%) passed without incident. "Tea Party" might result in extra scrutiny, but so would "ACORN" or "Green Energy".
The IRS changed its policy to remove keywords that could impact wait times and information requests. The Inspector General found there was no political motivations in the policy.
Yet you directly compare this to EXPLICIT targeting of critics of DeSantis, with DeSantis openly and proudly punishing free speech critizing conservatives?
That's a poor comparison. What DeSantis is doing is an intentional targeting that he seeks to escalate and export to the rest of the nation. The IRS issue was poor implementation of new rules as the IRS tried to navigate a new Supreme Court ruling......that the IRS refined within about 18 months. There was no intentionality, nor did Obama have a thing to do it.
www.reuters.com
www.npr.org
www.nbcnews.com
www.washingtonexaminer.com
I am one of the dung throwers who considers hitler a man of the leftI think the way to start is to look first at the social reality we want to talk about: both social/political systems as they exist, and political movements aiming to establish a social/political system.
First describe them, and then see if our existing vocabulary is adequate to label them. After all, before 1919, there were right-wing nationalist-authoritarian movements and regimes, but we didn't need a new word to talk about them. But after 1919, it became evident that the 'far Right' (I hate that term, since it's used in a dishonest way by the Left, but you know what I mean here) had changed: it had adopted a pseudo-Leftist social program, and Bolshevik organizational methods.
Even with that in mind, we still use 'fascism' in a very loose way. The Spanish Falangists under Franco didn't build a pseudo-Left mass movement -- that was strictly a military struggle, nor did Franco really establish a totalitarian state. A one-party extreme authoritarian one, yes ... but not the Rightwing equivalent of the USSR or even of nazi Germany.
Then we have, or had, organizations like the KKK. Very nasty people, willing to use terror ... but people who didn't find it necessary to build a political movement to compete with those who normally represented them (ie the Democratic Party). Not to mention that probably none of them could even spell 'fascist'.
There's a trope that is popular on the Right to the effect that, really, Hitler was a man of the Left. 'National Socialist' and all that. It's just verbal dung-throwing, not serious analysis.
And with respect to the Republican Party and "limited government". Traditional Republican politicians were constrained on this issue in two, or two-and-a-half ways, whatever they may personally have believed: (1) no serious person -- who wants to be elected -- will openly advocate dismantling the limited welfare state we have in America; then (2) there's "corporate welfare" for their donor class and, maybe not a separate category, the military-industrial complex that must be fed. (However, we did and do need a military-industrial complex of some sort, until the lions lay down with the lambs, so that's not really hypocritical. Got to make sure we can threaten that wonderfully-acronymed "Mutually Assured Destruction". Which doesn't mean we need to try to evangelize the planet. But that's another argument.
The Parkland School shooting. There's a real-life example for you.Total FLUFF PIECE on DeSantis...Duke!!! Still no real example of it ever being a problem....I'd like to see an example, a real life one.
You all are being lured down another vacant rabbit hole, for the continuance of your made up faux crisis and hate bashing of democrats....think for yourself, stop letting your leaders telling you what you should think.... it's usually pure propaganda and circus.
Sure: an illegal and unconstitutional edict from Biden, called the COVID vaccine mandate, that got people fired from their jobs and coerced millions of people to take a dangerous experimental mRNA shot. These have been ruled unconstitutional by SCOTUS.
Also Big Tech corporations censoring anyone with views the government doesn’t approve of. See the FBI and White House colluding with social media companies to censor Americans’ accounts and posts, which clearly violates the First Amendment.
Yeah.....you know you can't back those claims up with evidence, right?
Though that's never stopped you before.
That definition would not fit Italian or German fascism.My personal definition of fascist means individual ownership of wealth and property but near absolute government control over how the wealth is consumed
YesThat definition would not fit Italian or German fascism.
No. Fascism is far more than an economic system, it's a political system.
If we all agreed that Left vs Right was simply the question of individuals vs the state, with the Right being pro-individual and anti-state, with the Left believing individuals exist only to serve the state ... then it wouldn't be controversial.I am one of the dung throwers who considers hitler a man of the left
He may have been to the right of Stalin but he still viewed individuals as expendable that existed only to serve the state
I dont disagree that fascism id also politicalNo. Fascism is far more than an economic system, it's a political system.
The overarching system is that everything serves the state. The economic system is whatever the state needs. It used private industry, insofar as those industries served the interests of the state. That might require nationalization, or it might just be fine as private. It is whatever it took.
For conservatives it difficult to find common ground with anyone outside of another MAGAIf we all agreed that Left vs Right was simply the question of individuals vs the state, with the Right being pro-individual and anti-state, with the Left believing individuals exist only to serve the state ... then it wouldn't be controversial.
But, traditionally, that's not how most people have seen 'Left' vs 'Right', and there's a reason for that.
Your view of 'the Right' is a pretty good description of the libertarian strain within the Right ... but these good people are a minority within the Right.
Certainly within the American Right, most people have been willing to extend pretty extensive powers to the state: the right to tell us what chemicals we can put into our bodies, the right to conscript us and send us to exotic foreign countries to risk our lives, the right to imprison people for their political beliefs.
With respect to the state, most conservatives have been wary of its use when it's for the purpose of re-making society according to some scheme thought up by well-meaning intellectuals. They (we) tend to have the view of "If it's not broke, don't fix it."
Of course, if we were absolutely rigid in ths view, we'd all still be living in caves. Society changes, (mainly through technical/economic changes that are eventually reflected in the composition of society), our morality changes, and we change with it.
Things considered normal at one point in the past are now condemned by everyone. Often, the Left has been in the forefront of those calling for changes that turn out to be 'good', ie accepted by almost everyone eventually.
But they have also been in the forefront of those calling for changes that are NOT good -- their long infatution with government ownership of much, or all, of the economy is a good example.
Plus, they -- liberals at least, not the Hard Left -- tend to be naive about human nature -- too kind and trusting , whereas we are morecynical, I mean realistic.
(I want my nurse to be a liberal, and my bodyguard to be a conservative.)
This is not an argument that generates much enlightenment. We don't want to be associated in any way with 'Rightwing' figures like Hitler, just as our friends on the Left don't want to be associated in any way with 'Leftwing' figures like Stalin. Rather than argue about what is really a trivial semantic issue, we should argue about actual policies: open borders, foreign wars, lowering academic standards, free speech.
There's 1800 special districts in Florida such as Reedy Creek.Actually, Governor DeSantis stripped Disney of extra-ordinary rights to set up their own political entity that no other corporation in Florida enjoys and that they should never have been given in the first place.
The first rule of any human interaction is that if you're dependent on someone, you shouldn't try to screw them over ...
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