Rocket launched at Israel from Lebanon

[Kondor3]

"...Israel attacks Palestinians in their neighborhoods and in their homes with or without launch sites. Israel is just trying to justify attacking civilians."

That may or may not be true, to some extent or another.

But that is not the issue here.

I have clearly articulated the complaint: "Israelis are inflicting civilian casualties in Gaza."

I have clearly articulated the problem: "Palestinians launch rockets from civilian centers in Gaza."

I have clearly articulated the solution: "Move the rockets away from civilian centers in Gaza."

You continue to dissemble on other matters in an attempt to distract us from this one.

You are not succeeding.

If Hamas and Hezbollah are NOT hiding their rocket-launching sites and operational bases within their civilian population centers in Gaza and Lebanon, you are welcome to openly declare thus, here.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"...Israel attacks Palestinians in their neighborhoods and in their homes with or without launch sites. Israel is just trying to justify attacking civilians."

That may or may not be true, to some extent or another.

But that is not the issue here.

I have clearly articulated the complaint: "Israelis are inflicting civilian casualties in Gaza."

I have clearly articulated the problem: "Palestinians launch rockets from civilian centers in Gaza."

I have clearly articulated the solution: "Move the rockets away from civilian centers in Gaza."

You continue to dissemble on other matters in an attempt to distract us from this one.

You are not succeeding.

If Hamas and Hezbollah are NOT hiding their rocket-launching sites and operational bases within their civilian population centers in Gaza and Lebanon, you are welcome to openly declare thus, here.

I have clearly articulated the solution: "Move the rockets away from civilian centers."

Not true. Israel attacks civilians in Gaza even when no rockets are launched.

Just another Israeli lie.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Israel attacks civilians in Gaza even when no rockets are launched..."

Trying to hit those mobile launcher-sites before they CAN launch in some cases, no doubt.

And looking to kill Hamas leaders in safe-houses and operational bases before they can inflict more harm on Israelis, no doubt.

Move the launchers away from the civilians... move the operational bases away from the civilians... move the leadership away from the civilians... and civilians won't get hurt in such operations.

Oh, and, any time you would like to declare that the Palestinians do NOT position their rockets and bases and leadership inside of civilian population centers, you may proceed... we're all waiting.

But we aren't going to see that from you, are we?

And we all understand why, well enough.

Because the Palestinians DO position their launchers and bases and leadership deep within their population centers.

Because the charge is true.

Because the Palestinians ARE hiding behind their womens' skirts.

And everybody knows it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"...Israel attacks civilians in Gaza even when no rockets are launched..."

Trying to hit those mobile launcher-sites before they CAN launch in some cases, no doubt.

And looking to kill Hamas leaders in safe-houses and operational bases before they can inflict more harm on Israelis, no doubt.

Move the launchers away from the civilians... move the operational bases away from the civilians... move the leadership away from the civilians...

Oh, and, any time you would like to declare that the Palestinians do NOT position their rockets and bases and leadership inside of civilian population centers, you may proceed... we're all waiting.

Where are the rockets?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7gHENR-kPc]Gaza farmers under fire - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Kondor3]

"..."

You would do well not to try to defend on the Macro level by relying upon defense on the Micro level, especially when specific incidents can be interpreted in a half-dozen ways and when only one side of the story is being assessed and analyzed by highly biased observers.

I will construe that your unwillingness to declare that Hamas and Hezbollah do NOT position their rocket launchers and operational bases and leadership deep within civilian population centers, to mean that they DO, and that you concede the point by default.

And, having conceded the point, until the Palestinians move their rockets and bases and leaders away from civilian centers, you may (1) expect more civilian casualties and (2) notice a remarkable lack of sympathy for those casualties.

You know how to fix the problem. Move the targets. Fail to move the targets and you get no sympathy.

 

[Hossfly]

"...Israel attacks civilians in Gaza even when no rockets are launched..."

Trying to hit those mobile launcher-sites before they CAN launch in some cases, no doubt.

And looking to kill Hamas leaders in safe-houses and operational bases before they can inflict more harm on Israelis, no doubt.

Move the launchers away from the civilians... move the operational bases away from the civilians... move the leadership away from the civilians...

Oh, and, any time you would like to declare that the Palestinians do NOT position their rockets and bases and leadership inside of civilian population centers, you may proceed... we're all waiting.

Where are the rockets?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7gHENR-kPc]Gaza farmers under fire - YouTube[/ame]

Inconclusive. Where are the shooters? That was overhead fire. No dust kicked up. Probably staged.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"..."

You would do well not to try to defend on the Macro level by relying upon defense on the Micro level, especially when specific incidents can be interpreted in a half-dozen ways and when only one side of the story is being assessed and analyzed by highly biased observers.

I will construe that your unwillingness to declare that Hamas and Hezbollah do NOT position their rocket launchers and operational bases and leadership deep within civilian population centers, to mean that they DO, and that you concede the point by default.

And, having conceded the point, until the Palestinians move their rockets and bases and leaders away from civilian centers, you may (1) expect more civilian casualties and (2) notice a remarkable lack of sympathy for those casualties.

You know how to fix the problem. Move the targets. Fail to move the targets and you get no sympathy.

...position their rocket launchers and operational bases and leadership deep within civilian population centers...

So, are you saying that if the Palestinians bombed the home of an Israeli general killing his family and some of the neighbors, that would be a legitimate target?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

"..."

You would do well not to try to defend on the Macro level by relying upon defense on the Micro level, especially when specific incidents can be interpreted in a half-dozen ways and when only one side of the story is being assessed and analyzed by highly biased observers.

I will construe that your unwillingness to declare that Hamas and Hezbollah do NOT position their rocket launchers and operational bases and leadership deep within civilian population centers, to mean that they DO, and that you concede the point by default.

And, having conceded the point, until the Palestinians move their rockets and bases and leaders away from civilian centers, you may (1) expect more civilian casualties and (2) notice a remarkable lack of sympathy for those casualties.

You know how to fix the problem. Move the targets. Fail to move the targets and you get no sympathy.

Whether they do or not, targeting civilians remains unlawful under intl law. So, it is somewhat irrelevant. My opinion is they are not doing this. Gaza is a densely populated area, I have read it is one of the most densely populated areas in the world. I doubt it would be possible to find a place for Palestinians to defend themselves from Israeli attacks that is not a civilian area. To label all self defense as unlawful because all of Gaza is densely populated by civilians would deny Palestinians their rights to resist their Occupation with armed resistance, which is a right granted to them by intl law.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Trying to hit those mobile launcher-sites before they CAN launch in some cases, no doubt.

And looking to kill Hamas leaders in safe-houses and operational bases before they can inflict more harm on Israelis, no doubt.

Move the launchers away from the civilians... move the operational bases away from the civilians... move the leadership away from the civilians...

Oh, and, any time you would like to declare that the Palestinians do NOT position their rockets and bases and leadership inside of civilian population centers, you may proceed... we're all waiting.

Where are the rockets?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7gHENR-kPc]Gaza farmers under fire - YouTube[/ame]

Inconclusive. Where are the shooters? That was overhead fire. No dust kicked up. Probably staged.

Was "grasping at straws" your major at university?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcRPSG-UYF0]Gaza farmers risk being shot - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd2WZTSeKlU]Wheat Harvest Under Fire - YouTube[/ame]

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Under intl law, individuals living under Occupation are protected persons and not proper military targets except when they are participating in the hostilities. That means fighters who are in their homes with their families and not participating in the hostilities are not proper military targets at that time, nor are their families. Targeted assassinations are unlawful under intl law.

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

Amnesty's report on Cast Lead found no instances where Palestinians were launching rockets from houses where civilians were present and no instances of Palestinians using civilians as human shields.

 

[Hossfly]

Where are the rockets?

Gaza farmers under fire - YouTube

Inconclusive. Where are the shooters? That was overhead fire. No dust kicked up. Probably staged.

Was "grasping at straws" your major at university?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcRPSG-UYF0]Gaza farmers risk being shot - YouTube[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd2WZTSeKlU]Wheat Harvest Under Fire - YouTube[/ame]

My major was being fired at and recognizing overhead fire.

 

[Kondor3]

"Under intl law, individuals living under Occupation are protected persons and not proper military targets except when they are participating in the hostilities. That means fighters who are in their homes with their families and not participating in the hostilities are not proper military targets at that time, nor are their families. Targeted assassinations are unlawful under intl law."

So, by that logic, a Resistance Fighter in Occupied France could not be attacked by the German Wehrmact because he was at-home... kinda like playing "It" with the front porch as "Safe" or "Goal", right?

Do you have any appreciation whatsoever for how naive and simple-minded that sounds?

But, I do understand that when your mojo is weak, and that's all you have, you try to use it, and hope it's enough.

It wasn't, in this case, but I do understand.

 

[Kondor3]

Amnesty's report on Cast Lead found no instances where Palestinians were launching rockets from houses where civilians were present and no instances of Palestinians using civilians as human shields.

No, but I'll bet there were rocket-launchers and safe-houses and bases next-door, or a few doors down, or on the next block, eh?

 

[P F Tinmore]

"Under intl law, individuals living under Occupation are protected persons and not proper military targets except when they are participating in the hostilities. That means fighters who are in their homes with their families and not participating in the hostilities are not proper military targets at that time, nor are their families. Targeted assassinations are unlawful under intl law."

So, by that logic, a Resistance Fighter in Occupied France could not be attacked by the German Wehrmact because he was at-home... kinda like playing "It" with the front porch as "Safe" or "Goal", right?

Do you have any appreciation whatsoever for how naive and simple-minded that sounds?

Read the law. An occupied people are protected persons unless actively engaged in fighting.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Amnesty's report on Cast Lead found no instances where Palestinians were launching rockets from houses where civilians were present and no instances of Palestinians using civilians as human shields.

No, but I'll bet there were rocket-launchers and safe-houses and bases next-door, or a few doors down, or on the next block, eh?

Or a mile away.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Whether they do or not, targeting civilians remains unlawful under intl law..."

Oh, the Palestinians do, indeed, position their rocket-launchers and bases and leadership inside civilian population centers, and we both know it. Consequently, it is both convenient and truthful for the Israelis to say that they do not target civilian population centers.

"...My opinion is they are not doing this. Gaza is a densely populated area..."

And much of the rest of the world perceives otherwise.

"...I have read it is one of the most densely populated areas in the world. I doubt it would be possible to find a place for Palestinians to defend themselves from Israeli attacks that is not a civilian area..."

That is a problem for Palestinians to solve, if they wish to cut down on civilian casualties.

"...To label all self defense as unlawful because all of Gaza is densely populated by civilians would deny Palestinians their rights to resist their Occupation with armed resistance, which is a right granted to them by intl law."

And here I thought you just said - a moment ago - that you did not believe that they (the Palestinians) were doing this (parking launchers and bases and leadership inside densely populated areas) - so, which is it?

They have two choices.

1. move their launchers and bases and leadership away from civilian centers, or...

2. continue to take higher civilian casualties when the Israelis counterstrike after an attack

Those are the only two choices that signify.

The rest is background noise and static by comparison.

If they cannot sustain a military campaign because they are absorbing too many civilian casualties, then I suggest that they cease military operations.

The choice is theirs.

And the consquences are on them, and not Israel, and not the rest of the world.

And all the Legal Nicities in the world aren't going to change that Reality one little bit.

 

[Kondor3]

Amnesty's report on Cast Lead found no instances where Palestinians were launching rockets from houses where civilians were present and no instances of Palestinians using civilians as human shields.

No, but I'll bet there were rocket-launchers and safe-houses and bases next-door, or a few doors down, or on the next block, eh?

Or a mile away.

Sometimes... I'm sure... depends on the weapons being used and the pre-strike intelligence... and timing, with respect to mobile launcher-systems.

 

[P F Tinmore]

"...Whether they do or not, targeting civilians remains unlawful under intl law..."

Oh, the Palestinians do, indeed, position their rocket-launchers and bases and leadership inside civilian population centers, and we both know it. Consequently, it is both convenient and truthful for the Israelis to say that they do not target civilian population centers.

"...My opinion is they are not doing this. Gaza is a densely populated area..."

And much of the rest of the world perceives otherwise.

"...I have read it is one of the most densely populated areas in the world. I doubt it would be possible to find a place for Palestinians to defend themselves from Israeli attacks that is not a civilian area..."

That is a problem for Palestinians to solve, if they wish to cut down on civilian casualties.

"...To label all self defense as unlawful because all of Gaza is densely populated by civilians would deny Palestinians their rights to resist their Occupation with armed resistance, which is a right granted to them by intl law."

And here I thought you just said - a moment ago - that you did not believe that they (the Palestinians) were doing this (parking launchers and bases and leadership inside densely populated areas) - so, which is it?

They have two choices.

1. move their launchers and bases and leadership away from civilian centers, or...

2. continue to take higher civilian casualties when the Israelis counterstrike after an attack

Those are the only two choices that signify.

The rest is background noise and static by comparison.

If they cannot sustain a military campaign because they are absorbing too many civilian casualties, then I suggest that they cease military operations.

The choice is theirs.

And the consquences are on them, and not Israel, and not the rest of the world.

And all the Legal Nicities in the world aren't going to change that Reality one little bit.

The Palestinians have the right to defend themselves from Israel's war.

 

[Kondor3]

"Under intl law, individuals living under Occupation are protected persons and not proper military targets except when they are participating in the hostilities. That means fighters who are in their homes with their families and not participating in the hostilities are not proper military targets at that time, nor are their families. Targeted assassinations are unlawful under intl law."

So, by that logic, a Resistance Fighter in Occupied France could not be attacked by the German Wehrmact because he was at-home... kinda like playing "It" with the front porch as "Safe" or "Goal", right?

Do you have any appreciation whatsoever for how naive and simple-minded that sounds?

Read the law. An occupied people are protected persons unless actively engaged in fighting.

That was not the question.

The question was about naivete and simple-mindedness.

You seem to be operating under the impression that anybody actually pays attention to $hit like that in circumstances wherein civilian population centers are being utilized to launch large-scale rocket attacks upon a neighbor.

Hint: the rule-book gets tossed out the window when folks try to hide behind the rules in order to kill their neighbors.