Rise In Homeless Female Vets Tied To Military Sexual Abuse

[cootydog]

Raped in Military.

Tank this is one womans story, how does this prove that Blacks in the service are doing all the raping and harassing?

High_Gravity...I like giving you shit. You are funny. When I read above and learned you were in the military I have to say for one minute we can stop hating I want to thank you for your service man I respect the shit out of that. Hats off to you and all of Americas soldiers.

Ok minutes over douche bag!

 

[High_Gravity]

Raped in Military.

Tank this is one womans story, how does this prove that Blacks in the service are doing all the raping and harassing?

High_Gravity...I like giving you shit. You are funny. When I read above and learned you were in the military I have to say for one minute we can stop hating I want to thank you for your service man I respect the shit out of that. Hats off to you and all of Americas soldiers.

Ok minutes over douche bag!

 

[High_Gravity]

you've been told its a real problem...so, its a real problem.....


sorry bro, but those are slags...there is nothing in either one of those links, that I would make a case on, their numbers are unsubstantiated, what TYPE cases of abuse, physical? Verbal? no referencing as to cross correlations to civilian society, those 181 of 2100 cases to which they referred?
How many were found guilty or innocence? there is no discussion of any use of charges to feather ones bed ( ******* for promotion) , or revenge or the; “shit I got caught with a superior and let me save my ass” charges…..etc etc .

and as far as Time and other News Mags online or off, dude, you know they live off of this crap.

Some inferences and ‘testimonials’ by folks whose mental states before or after you have no idea of, some sprinkling of ‘ Pentagon sources’ say there….. goes, they love the big punch up, as usual they front load the ‘article’ with my good the horror ….where the beef? Would it interest you to that another huge topic for Time, Newsweek CNN was the female contractor locked in a Conex Container? Raped multiple times, the BIG COVER UP by the military etc etc ..…remember that?


Maybe you should, shes not very well 'balanced', the defendants were found not guilty AND she has a history of lying, drug use, and prescriptions for psychotropic drugs. Did TIME or NEWSWEEK cover the trial and whats more blaze the headline with the acquittal of the accused? the results? Do you even know? Did you read my thread here last month on how that turned out, from a left of center org. Mother Jones?

You are right that some of these women were not telling the truth however that doesn't mean all of them are lying, like I said we are never going to know the real numbers because alot of women are scared of coming forward because of retribution by their assailant or the chain of command, the Military is trying to avoid all the bad press it can these days. I have been in the Military and I have seen with my own eyes how leadership tries to cover things under the rug. I didn't read your thread about the female contractor and I didn't even know that it happened, I'll have to look that up.

I served half the 70’s and almost all of the 80’s. In and out of “war" zones ( we called them zones of hostility) etc etc…served with some woman, seen a bunch more, etc etc..

Never, not once in 13 years had I spoke to, heard of or otherwise came across a woman or a story of one that was raped. Now this was back in the days before all of the seminars, touchy feely tolerance classes , started in the late 80’s…so, there could have been an undercurrent that I did not see or hear about…but, I really doubt it, I mean for god sakes in the lawless and much more drug infested ( by comparison ) 70’s and 80’s?

Now, I’ll tell you what I did see and hear a LOT of, TONS of guys and girls in the service messing around with other behind their spouses backs,….when they were in the field/deployed, wham, I’d hear or see a story ( true way more often than not) of some wife etc stepping out on her man, in Germany we had a shuttle service ( we called it the “*****” bus, the guy had got 'bitched' by his woman ) just for pissed off hubbies who were suspicious of and had heard and wanted to head back to garrison unannounced to check on their wives and vice versa and then you had the the consensual nco on private, officer on nco shit and then theres the old, 2 people in the e club looking to just hook up, a guy whos horny and appears ok and a wife or GF who has the itch has had a few drinks , they fall into each others arms, the base is a small base, small community, very little goes unnoticed and let me tell you Gossip? shit, the gossip is ferocious.... next thing you know hubbie finds out, accuses her, woman says he made me, he took advantage of me…..heard of lots of those…..please.

So you tell, me? Have libidos changed? All of a sudden out of no where in the 90 and 00’s men have become MORE aggressive? ? In the face of waaay more education and penalties and the safety, understanding of and the friendly public relations environment as to victims?

I see your point, I have never actually seen or been anywhere where a woman was assaulted or raped, however I was stationed at Vandenberg Air Force Base where we had the highest rate of domestic violence in Space Command. The base was isolated and since we were in California everything was so expensive so alot of the lower ranking enlisted families would get into fights about money, alot of drinking and this would lead to assaults and domestic violence, I never seen any of it first hand but we were constantly briefed how poor our post was in this assignment. You have to keep in mind things are changing, I dont think anyones libidos have changed however keep in mind the suicide rates for our Military are through the roof right now because of this repeat deployments, divorce rates are also higher than they have been in recent memory, I am not saying the constant deployments are an excuse for raping anyone but the mental toll of constantly being in a war zone ***** with your mind after a while. We are in unchartered territory here because even in Vietnam you were really only asked to go once or maybe twice, now we have guys going over 5 and 6 times, maybe this is part of the problem?

 

[lilbug]

Im just saying. Where I was raised we open doors for and call Ma-am and to always protect and look out for. How could I fight with women getting shot all around me? I mean in the heat of battle sure we do what we have to but come on I would stil be very distracted by women being than shot than anything. Just to clarify My mom raised me alone for 18 year God rest her soul I lost her to cancer Oct 1st 2008. She worked for the Burlington Northern Railroad from the time I was ten until I was 25. She was the only woman to hire on in north texas out of 10 or so women. They we're hired for some liberal women are strong as men equality crap. out of all of them my mom not only stayed 15 years she worked on the ground slinging a spike maul all day just like the men. she would come home tired and wore out and at 10 I learned to make super so she could eat and rest I cokked super for her til I was 18. her arms were bigger than mine ever will be from Hard work. She won second or third in the 60's national rodeos barrel racing. She was a go getter and got what she went for. She raised me to be strong and work hard, and always take care of my woman and kid never be like my dad was. So I am sorry if I come off sounding like some mid evil pig I am not. I have less sinister reasons for not wanting women in combat. thats all. I never said a woman was less human than a man just generally with few exceptions, like my mom, women are weaker physically than men. Thats just nature not me. As far as your big girl friends who you would like see in a room with me I must warn you I am a goodlooking talented SOB and have a way of charming fat girls and dykes. meanwhile back on the ranch high just got finished with his daily affirmations...hows that going for you, Stewart Smalley?

I agreed with you about women not being in combat and about their having inherent differences that make it impossible for them to do everything a guy does, but the barefoot and pregnant thing does not reflect an exactly enlightened attitude, nor does the remark about Americanized women.

God bless your mom, she sounds like she was a remarkable woman. I, too, lost my mom to cancer, I was 16. So...a major part of the person I am came from that loss, just as your life with your mom influenced you. My stepdad, an alcoholic with no clue or inclination to cope with two 16-year-old girls (I am a twin) and a 9-year-old boy. I grew up fast and through it gained independence and determination to rise above where I was...thus, joining the military. It afforded me the opportunities to be more than the future, without it, predicted for me. For me, it's not about outdoing or competing with a guy, it's about being afforded the opportunities to excel just as any man can without having to fend off or be protected from some ass-hole jerk.

I agree women should be given fair chances to be independent but never with any bias. No double standard.
I respect you and thank you for serving this country to give me the freedom to be a flintstone. My grandfather was a Captain in WWII and was a U.D.T. I never served but raised by a bunch of ex military. I will always have respect and gratitude in my heart for any man or woman to serve ol glory helping defend the place where I so dearly love. America U.S.A. Texas!!

Well then, you're gonna love this.....I had AIT training at Ft. Sam Houston and was stationed for my entire tour at Ft. Hood, 2AD, "Hell on Wheels" ,48th Med Bn, Co. B....under Gen Patton, Jr.

 

[Trajan]

You are right that some of these women were not telling the truth however that doesn't mean all of them are lying, like I said we are never going to know the real numbers because alot of women are scared of coming forward because of retribution by their assailant or the chain of command, the Military is trying to avoid all the bad press it can these days. I have been in the Military and I have seen with my own eyes how leadership tries to cover things under the rug. I didn't read your thread about the female contractor and I didn't even know that it happened, I'll have to look that up.

I served half the 70’s and almost all of the 80’s. In and out of “war" zones ( we called them zones of hostility) etc etc…served with some woman, seen a bunch more, etc etc..

Never, not once in 13 years had I spoke to, heard of or otherwise came across a woman or a story of one that was raped. Now this was back in the days before all of the seminars, touchy feely tolerance classes , started in the late 80’s…so, there could have been an undercurrent that I did not see or hear about…but, I really doubt it, I mean for god sakes in the lawless and much more drug infested ( by comparison ) 70’s and 80’s?

Now, I’ll tell you what I did see and hear a LOT of, TONS of guys and girls in the service messing around with other behind their spouses backs,….when they were in the field/deployed, wham, I’d hear or see a story ( true way more often than not) of some wife etc stepping out on her man, in Germany we had a shuttle service ( we called it the “*****” bus, the guy had got 'bitched' by his woman ) just for pissed off hubbies who were suspicious of and had heard and wanted to head back to garrison unannounced to check on their wives and vice versa and then you had the the consensual nco on private, officer on nco shit and then theres the old, 2 people in the e club looking to just hook up, a guy whos horny and appears ok and a wife or GF who has the itch has had a few drinks , they fall into each others arms, the base is a small base, small community, very little goes unnoticed and let me tell you Gossip? shit, the gossip is ferocious.... next thing you know hubbie finds out, accuses her, woman says he made me, he took advantage of me…..heard of lots of those…..please.

So you tell, me? Have libidos changed? All of a sudden out of no where in the 90 and 00’s men have become MORE aggressive? ? In the face of waaay more education and penalties and the safety, understanding of and the friendly public relations environment as to victims?

I see your point, I have never actually seen or been anywhere where a woman was assaulted or raped, however I was stationed at Vandenberg Air Force Base where we had the highest rate of domestic violence in Space Command. The base was isolated and since we were in California everything was so expensive so alot of the lower ranking enlisted families would get into fights about money, alot of drinking and this would lead to assaults and domestic violence, I never seen any of it first hand but we were constantly briefed how poor our post was in this assignment. You have to keep in mind things are changing, I dont think anyones libidos have changed however keep in mind the suicide rates for our Military are through the roof right now because of this repeat deployments, divorce rates are also higher than they have been in recent memory, I am not saying the constant deployments are an excuse for raping anyone but the mental toll of constantly being in a war zone ***** with your mind after a while. We are in unchartered territory here because even in Vietnam you were really only asked to go once or maybe twice, now we have guys going over 5 and 6 times, maybe this is part of the problem?

we have a thread on the suicides and, the data does not sppt a HUGE disparity to the civilian pop. If I recall they said a slight increase.

as far as the deployments, yes I agree, and maybe down the road this will spike rates to an extent where in there is no doubt that there has been some ongoing damage that has yet to reveal itself.

I would also add that in todays environment, ptsd, etc etc are covered and diagnosed a great deal more thoroughly and the stigma is very much less than it was than in the past, meaning we really don't have an adequate yardstick to say hey this is worse then Korea ww2 Vietnam etc etc....


way back last year we had a thread on this very thing, I posted casualty figures from some battles in the pacific in ww2 where in take the battle of iwo jima; there were 3000 cases of classified ( remember these are the ones they classified as such meaning there was probably another 500-750) out of a total causality rate of 23,000, marine kia wia, so thats makes the shell shock casualty rate above 10%...think on that for a moment....applied to today that would mean that 1 of every 9 to 10 soldiers are classified as battle fatigued to the point where in they are evacuated etc. to reach parity..

 

[whitehall]

We could also say that the rise in pregnancy on US Warships decreases the effectiveness of the US Navy. You can't have it both ways huffer. Why not get off your moderate ass and call for a congressional resolution that women should not be subjected to combat or duty on US Warships?

 

[aplcr0331]

Good grief, sounds like the military is a rape-fest. What women in her right mind would join the military?

Wait...are we assuming that all sexual harassment is a rape? The military classifies unwanted sexual advances as a sexual assault too. For some reason I cannot read the article. Does it break down sexual assault by the actual act involved?

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Lilbug: that is a shame if people abuse the harassment claims to cry wolf.
There are so many real cases, it is wrong for those to be questioned or discredited because of abuses. So sad to see the problem compounded or masked in confusion.

I remember the case of a woman officer killed for being pregnant.
And the cases of contractors like Jamie Leigh whose rapes were covered up.

The Jamie Leigh Foundation

Hmm...at my last doctor's visit at my VA clinic, my physician asked me if I ever experienced sexual abuse in the Army....I thought it was an odd question for him to be asking out of context for the reason I was there.

I don't know...I have so many thoughts on this, my brain is a little scrambled, but I am leaning toward on the side suspicion on this article.

You can be sure sexual harassment and abuse does occur, but I find it difficult to believe a woman who has survived basic training, which undoubtedly is much tougher than when I was in, training for her position, been to Iraq/Afg., does not have the courage and fortitude to report sexual harassment/abuse. Certainly, being part of the one the biggest 'good ol' boy' organizations in existence is a deterent, but from my experience, the women I served with took no crap, and if they didn't deal with it themselves by knocking the living shit out of you, they would not hesitate to report it, either to chain of command or someone, a friend, who summarily 'handled' the situation unofficially.

There's an internal 'good ol' boy' system in place...the guys who look out for the gals behind the scenes, who took it upon themselves to deal with perpetrators, these included enlisted and officers. Either there was some kind of 'disciplinary' action, official or otherwise, and/or the perp was transferred out.
If a vet is disabled to the point of not being able to hold down a job, then they are entitled, as are we all, to disability and low-income housing, and for those who served their full life term, they have their retirement, either until they are able to receive counseling and again be able to reintegrate, or permanently, so I don't get why they are homeless based on sexual harassment PTSD in and of itself.
I also find it difficult to believe that these resourceful women are not able to/would not discover resources and seek them out on their own. My first visit to the clinic I was informed there was a female social worker/counselor on staff, a female nurse practitioner, as well as my physician.

Could it be these vets are homeless the same way many folks are, because there are simply no jobs, and the sexual harassment part of it is being exploited and/or abused by the women themselves or the system, or for political gain? And, if indeed sexual harassment PTSD is the issue, I find it difficult to believe they are unable to find the resources they need in existing programs. Reluctance to report these offenses is not a military issue, it is societal one for every woman every where, in all walks of life so again, I don't get the vet spin on this. Make the process of reporting them 'friendlier', the resources available for all women, not just the vets. And....there are homeless women and children on the streets who are not vets and their families....what about them? They idea of singling out vets here does not sit well with me, makes me suspicious...make the system work for all of us.

 

[High_Gravity]

Good grief, sounds like the military is a rape-fest. What women in her right mind would join the military?

Wait...are we assuming that all sexual harassment is a rape? The military classifies unwanted sexual advances as a sexual assault too. For some reason I cannot read the article. Does it break down sexual assault by the actual act involved?

Why shouldn't women join the service? if being harassed by men would keep women out of a line of work, they would never leave the house. Its not womens fault men act like assholes.

 

[lilbug]

Dear Lilbug: that is a shame if people abuse the harassment claims to cry wolf.
There are so many real cases, it is wrong for those to be questioned or discredited because of abuses. So sad to see the problem compounded or masked in confusion.

I remember the case of a woman officer killed for being pregnant.
And the cases of contractors like Jamie Leigh whose rapes were covered up.

The Jamie Leigh Foundation

Hmm...at my last doctor's visit at my VA clinic, my physician asked me if I ever experienced sexual abuse in the Army....I thought it was an odd question for him to be asking out of context for the reason I was there.

I don't know...I have so many thoughts on this, my brain is a little scrambled, but I am leaning toward on the side suspicion on this article.

You can be sure sexual harassment and abuse does occur, but I find it difficult to believe a woman who has survived basic training, which undoubtedly is much tougher than when I was in, training for her position, been to Iraq/Afg., does not have the courage and fortitude to report sexual harassment/abuse. Certainly, being part of the one the biggest 'good ol' boy' organizations in existence is a deterent, but from my experience, the women I served with took no crap, and if they didn't deal with it themselves by knocking the living shit out of you, they would not hesitate to report it, either to chain of command or someone, a friend, who summarily 'handled' the situation unofficially.

There's an internal 'good ol' boy' system in place...the guys who look out for the gals behind the scenes, who took it upon themselves to deal with perpetrators, these included enlisted and officers. Either there was some kind of 'disciplinary' action, official or otherwise, and/or the perp was transferred out.
If a vet is disabled to the point of not being able to hold down a job, then they are entitled, as are we all, to disability and low-income housing, and for those who served their full life term, they have their retirement, either until they are able to receive counseling and again be able to reintegrate, or permanently, so I don't get why they are homeless based on sexual harassment PTSD in and of itself.
I also find it difficult to believe that these resourceful women are not able to/would not discover resources and seek them out on their own. My first visit to the clinic I was informed there was a female social worker/counselor on staff, a female nurse practitioner, as well as my physician.

Could it be these vets are homeless the same way many folks are, because there are simply no jobs, and the sexual harassment part of it is being exploited and/or abused by the women themselves or the system, or for political gain? And, if indeed sexual harassment PTSD is the issue, I find it difficult to believe they are unable to find the resources they need in existing programs. Reluctance to report these offenses is not a military issue, it is societal one for every woman every where, in all walks of life so again, I don't get the vet spin on this. Make the process of reporting them 'friendlier', the resources available for all women, not just the vets. And....there are homeless women and children on the streets who are not vets and their families....what about them? They idea of singling out vets here does not sit well with me, makes me suspicious...make the system work for all of us.

Yes it is sad, but it happens, although these women may have served their country, they were first and foremost human beings, subject to the same character flaws as anyone else, and the result of their behavior is suspicion of the credibility of all women who report an issue.

This was not my main point of this reply, though, as I went on to explain in my later posts, but I do appreciate the reply and your thoughts.

 

[aplcr0331]

Good grief, sounds like the military is a rape-fest. What women in her right mind would join the military?

Wait...are we assuming that all sexual harassment is a rape? The military classifies unwanted sexual advances as a sexual assault too. For some reason I cannot read the article. Does it break down sexual assault by the actual act involved?

Why shouldn't women join the service? if being harassed by men would keep women out of a line of work, they would never leave the house. Its not womens fault men act like assholes.

Does hitting on a women always equal harassment? (*Hint* If the guy is ugly, yes)
Are you an asshole if you ask a women out or flirt with her? What is a girl who flirts with a guy?

 

[High_Gravity]

Good grief, sounds like the military is a rape-fest. What women in her right mind would join the military?

Wait...are we assuming that all sexual harassment is a rape? The military classifies unwanted sexual advances as a sexual assault too. For some reason I cannot read the article. Does it break down sexual assault by the actual act involved?

Why shouldn't women join the service? if being harassed by men would keep women out of a line of work, they would never leave the house. Its not womens fault men act like assholes.

Does hitting on a women always equal harassment? (*Hint* If the guy is ugly, yes)
Are you an asshole if you ask a women out or flirt with her? What is a girl who flirts with a guy?

There is a difference between hitting on a woman and flirting and sexual harassment, if you can't see that I don't know what to tell you.

 

[aplcr0331]

Why shouldn't women join the service? if being harassed by men would keep women out of a line of work, they would never leave the house. Its not womens fault men act like assholes.

Does hitting on a women always equal harassment? (*Hint* If the guy is ugly, yes)
Are you an asshole if you ask a women out or flirt with her? What is a girl who flirts with a guy?

There is a difference between hitting on a woman and flirting and sexual harassment, if you can't see that I don't know what to tell you.

I know the difference Mr. Snarky pants, I was asking you the question.

Is hitting on a woman sexual harassment? Is it wrong to talk to a woman you find attractive?

And, the million dollar question. If a gay military member hits on another guy, can that be harassment?

 

[High_Gravity]

Does hitting on a women always equal harassment? (*Hint* If the guy is ugly, yes)
Are you an asshole if you ask a women out or flirt with her? What is a girl who flirts with a guy?

There is a difference between hitting on a woman and flirting and sexual harassment, if you can't see that I don't know what to tell you.

I know the difference Mr. Snarky pants, I was asking you the question.

Is hitting on a woman sexual harassment? Is it wrong to talk to a woman you find attractive?

And, the million dollar question. If a gay military member hits on another guy, can that be harassment?

Mr. Snarky pants, what the ****? to answer your questions no, hitting on a woman is not sexual harassment if you do it the right way, and no talking to a woman you find attractive is not sexual harassment, I have done this plenty of time and never got into any trouble, if you have you were probably being an asshole like you are now. As far as the gay guy thing I don't know I have no experience with that, that was not allowed in the service when I was in.

 

[aplcr0331]

There is a difference between hitting on a woman and flirting and sexual harassment, if you can't see that I don't know what to tell you.

I know the difference Mr. Snarky pants, I was asking you the question.

Is hitting on a woman sexual harassment? Is it wrong to talk to a woman you find attractive?

And, the million dollar question. If a gay military member hits on another guy, can that be harassment?

Mr. Snarky pants, what the ****? to answer your questions no, hitting on a woman is not sexual harassment if you do it the right way, and no talking to a woman you find attractive is not sexual harassment, I have done this plenty of time and never got into any trouble, if you have you were probably being an asshole like you are now. As far as the gay guy thing I don't know I have no experience with that, that was not allowed in the service when I was in.

Good grief man, I was being sarcastic calling you mister snarky pants. You are kind of sensitive, were you in the Air Force or something? (That's another joke)

Thanks for answering the question, I was curious about it and I agree with you.