Retiring the A-10

[Vrenn]

Wrong. They can continue to fly with damaged fan blades. BZZZZZXX.

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe a pigeon may bring it down too. do you feel lucky?

Good luck hitting a flying object with the 125. They can't even hit targets on the ground moving one tenth the speed.

If that isn't on your mind when you are attacking with the A-10 you should have stayed in the Financial Job you had before.

The A-10 can attack from any angle and destroy whatever it hits. Like I said, the 80 rounds from the one second burst simply disappears whatever it hits. No tank on Earth can survive it.

One second burst? from an bird traveling at 350mph? That 1 second burst will cover about 50 feet or more with only one or two hitting on target. Physics is not your strongest suit.

Yet again you show how ignorant you are about the subject.

Show me how an A-10 can get 80 rounds on a target the size of a T-72 and I'll show you a deep hole in the ground where the A-10 had to be flying straight down.

 

[Vrenn]

A friend flew OV-10's in Vietnam, and he loved it, but he says they are a great COIN aircraft, but lousy as a dedicated CAS aircraft. Far too vulnerable to MANPADS.

CAS can be handled by almost anything flying by these days. The Buff makes an ideal CAS bird. As for COIN, it takes a special bird for that. And the A-10 really sucks at that one.

 

[westwall]

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe a pigeon may bring it down too. do you feel lucky?



If that isn't on your mind when you are attacking with the A-10 you should have stayed in the Financial Job you had before.



One second burst? from an bird traveling at 350mph? That 1 second burst will cover about 50 feet or more with only one or two hitting on target. Physics is not your strongest suit.




Show me how an A-10 can get 80 rounds on a target the size of a T-72 and I'll show you a deep hole in the ground where the A-10 had to be flying straight down.

Like I said, you know nothing about the subject. The 80 rounds will impact an area of around 4 meters.

And you clearly have no idea what physics even is.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

When the production ended does not matter.

The oldest OV-10 ever built is newer than the newest B-52.

They will still have to be built, right? The last one was built when my daughter was 2 years old. She will be 39 in May!

 

[Vrenn]

Like I said, you know nothing about the subject. The 80 rounds will impact an area of around 4 meters.

And you clearly have no idea what physics even is.

The last time I saw a fighter that might have been able to make that shot was a F-15 where the pilot flew into the ground, upside down, straight down and left a 50 foot hole.

 

[westwall]

CAS can be handled by almost anything flying by these days. The Buff makes an ideal CAS bird. As for COIN, it takes a special bird for that. And the A-10 really sucks at that one.

No, it can't. The AC-130 is only viable if there is complete air supremacy. And, no MANPADS. Hell, a good 85mm AA gun will bring one down.

CAS from a B-52 is awesome if you want to recreate an Arc Light strike. Sucks if your troops are in close contact though.

You play too much Call of Duty.

Just sayin...

 

[westwall]

The last time I saw a fighter that might have been able to make that shot was a F-15 where the pilot flew into the ground, upside down, straight down and left a 50 foot hole.

You've never seen an A-10 in that case. I watched one at an air show at Edward's when they were first brought into the USAF inventory.

They had an M48 parked halfway between the two runways.

One burst and half the M48 was gone.

They have gotten better since then.

A LOT better.

 

[Mushroom]

A friend flew OV-10's in Vietnam, and he loved it, but he says they are a great COIN aircraft, but lousy as a dedicated CAS aircraft. Far too vulnerable to MANPADS.

And I have said a modern and updated OV-10, not the same one they were using 6 decades ago. And much of that issue was resolved in later models and updates while it was in service. It had several updates during its lifespan, and Boeing has already proposed additional upgrades if it does restart production.

After all, the AH-1 Cobra is still made and manufactured today. But do not confuse it with the Vietnam era AH-1.

 

[Mushroom]

They will still have to be built, right?

And the point of that is what, exactly?

We are going to purchase some kind of light CAS aircraft for COIN. Right now, the front leader to many is the A-29 Super Tucano, from Brazil. Personally, I think the OV-10 would be better, as it has two engines, and is capable of handing many more roles than just CAS. Don't get me wrong, the Super Tucano is a great aircraft, but it can not do as many things as the OV-10 can.

 

[westwall]

And I have said a modern and updated OV-10, not the same one they were using 6 decades ago. And much of that issue was resolved in later models and updates while it was in service. It had several updates during its lifespan, and Boeing has already proposed additional upgrades if it does restart production.

After all, the AH-1 Cobra is still made and manufactured today. But do not confuse it with the Vietnam era AH-1.

Yes, Boeing improved the wing, and a few other structural upgrades as well. They added hard points, really updated the avionics, increased fuel load so added loiter time. And added provisions for an ECM pod, all of which increase survivability.

But, it still is only about 1/3rd as effective as an A-10.

 

[westwall]

And the point of that is what, exactly?

We are going to purchase some kind of light CAS aircraft for COIN. Right now, the front leader to many is the A-29 Super Tucano, from Brazil. Personally, I think the OV-10 would be better, as it has two engines, and is capable of handing many more roles than just CAS. Don't get me wrong, the Super Tucano is a great aircraft, but it can not do as many things as the OV-10 can.

That's for sure. The OV-10 is a remarkably versatile airframe.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

And I have said a modern and updated OV-10, not the same one they were using 6 decades ago. And much of that issue was resolved in later models and updates while it was in service. It had several updates during its lifespan, and Boeing has already proposed additional upgrades if it does restart production.

After all, the AH-1 Cobra is still made and manufactured today. But do not confuse it with the Vietnam era AH-1.

Where did you get that silly idea?

 

[Mushroom]

But, it still is only about 1/3rd as effective as an A-10.

And in this I agree, and it should not replace the A-10 but work in addition to it.

After all, what says we should have only a single CAS platform? We have multiple models of almost every aircraft in service, from cargo and attack helicopters to fighters, bombers, etc, etc, etc.

So why only a single CAS? And if we are going to add a light CAS, it should at least be multi-role.

 

[Mushroom]

Where did you get that silly idea?

Bell AH-1Z - Attack and Reconnaissance Helicopter Engineered for the Extreme.

www.bellflight.com

Uh, because it is?

The newest model is the Bell AH-1Z, commonly called the "Viper".

But it is still an AH-1.

 

[Vrenn]

No, it can't. The AC-130 is only viable if there is complete air supremacy. And, no MANPADS. Hell, a good 85mm AA gun will bring one down.

Sure, if you can see it. If you are sweeping the skies looking for it look for a 105mm to drop in and say hello. Chances are the AC will find you first.

CAS from a B-52 is awesome if you want to recreate an Arc Light strike. Sucks if your troops are in close contact though.

Sure, if we were still flying bone stock B-52Ds. The H can hit within a few feet of it's target with a JDAM. Unlike the D model, the H can elect to just drop one.

You play too much Call of Duty.

Just sayin...

And you hang out in military booze halls for your stories.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Bell AH-1Z - Attack and Reconnaissance Helicopter Engineered for the Extreme.

www.bellflight.com

Uh, because it is?

The newest model is the Bell AH-1Z, commonly called the "Viper".

But it is still an AH-1.

But is NOT a Cobra. It serves with the Marines. In Haiti in 1993, my Navy LHA carried a whopping 2 SeaCobras.

 

[Vrenn]

You've never seen an A-10 in that case. I watched one at an air show at Edward's when they were first brought into the USAF inventory.

They had an M48 parked halfway between the two runways.

One burst and half the M48 was gone.

They have gotten better since then.

A LOT better.

And so has the MBTs. As compared to a T-72 (which is one of the lightweights) the M48 had aluminum foil armor. And the Gun on the A-10 is the same gun firing the same projectile. The A-10 doesn't stand a tinker chance of stopping either a Challenger or an Abrams from any angle. The T-90 has an Anti Aircraft Fire control system as does some T-80s and T-72s. Again, you are going to be firing on the T-72 while he is firing back. And the A-10 is a much easier target to destroy.

You are pulling an Ivan on this one by selling something long while selling something short. I really had to take the side of the Russian Tanks but they ain't no pushovers. And flying the A-10 against the T-72 and up is suicide for the pilots who could be more effective being retrained into a more modern weapon system.

 

[westwall]

And so has the MBTs. As compared to a T-72 (which is one of the lightweights) the M48 had aluminum foil armor. And the Gun on the A-10 is the same gun firing the same projectile. The A-10 doesn't stand a tinker chance of stopping either a Challenger or an Abrams from any angle. The T-90 has an Anti Aircraft Fire control system as does some T-80s and T-72s. Again, you are going to be firing on the T-72 while he is firing back. And the A-10 is a much easier target to destroy.

You are pulling an Ivan on this one by selling something long while selling something short. I really had to take the side of the Russian Tanks but they ain't no pushovers. And flying the A-10 against the T-72 and up is suicide for the pilots who could be more effective being retrained into a more modern weapon system.

Wow. You spew a LOT of crap. But crap it is. The M48 had plenty of armor. They took multiple hits from the T-62 and continued to fight during Yom Kippur.

NO tank on Earth can survive a burst from the GAU 8. None. The best a challenger or Abrams can hope for is a simple mobility kill. Odds are they are finished.

You make me laugh with your tanks shooting back at an A-10 fantasy horse poo.

DEDICATED anti aircraft platforms have a hard time tracking the A-10, and you think a tank is going to be able to do it!

Have you ever even looked through the gunners sight on a tank?

Methinks the answer is no.

 

[Vrenn]

Wow. You spew a LOT of crap. But crap it is. The M48 had plenty of armor. They took multiple hits from the T-62 and continued to fight during Yom Kippur.

NO tank on Earth can survive a burst from the GAU 8. None. The best a challenger or Abrams can hope for is a simple mobility kill. Odds are they are finished.

You make me laugh with your tanks shooting back at an A-10 fantasy horse poo.

DEDICATED anti aircraft platforms have a hard time tracking the A-10, and you think a tank is going to be able to do it!

Have you ever even looked through the gunners sight on a tank?

Methinks the answer is no.

Okay, y ou win. I lose. Better not to have either the T-72 or the A-10.

 

[Mushroom]

But is NOT a Cobra.

And an AC-130 can be a Spooky, a Stinger II, or a Ghostrider.

They are all still C-130 Hercules, no matter what other name is added to it.

And no matter what they call the newest AH-1, it is still an AH-1.

You are obsessing over names, and not even looking at what the aircraft is.

Or are you going to tell me those are so radically different, they are not the same aircraft? Of the same direct line lineage?