Responsible Gun Owner Shoots His Family, Burns Down Home

[Skull Pilot]

oh brother, he could of just as well used his car filled with explosives or something

give us a break and worry about your country

Hard to believe but Florida is part of the US.

Its "could HAVE", not "could OF".

Staph - proof that Secty Kerry was right when he said Americans have the right to be stupid.

Ahem!

It's Steph not Staph


You were saying?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Involving gun possession:
It is indeed nearly impossible to determine whether someone is criminal until they do the crime...or have "dangerous mental illness" or simply carelessness or anger management issues which don't manifest until innocents are gunned down...ranging from kids playing with unsecured weapons to mass killings by angry young men.
Apparently, there is no "perfect" solution applicable in all cases.
However; it is reasonable to predict senseless gun deaths will reduce if we treat gun ownership and use like ability to use another potentially lethal weapon: cars.
Imagine if one could drive freely at any age without the requirement to qualify for car use without safety instructions, driving tests, car registration and licensure renewal every few years...and no stop signs, traffic lights, and rules of the road to "interfere with the freedom" of ur car ownership and use.
There would be a lot more car related deaths, no? So we consider reasonable regs and licensure for car ownership and use acceptable and not obliterating "freedom".
Not so with guns.
Is it because guns are less dangerous?
Is it because they require less instruction and regulation to be safe?
Is it because we respect guns less?
Is it because we don't appreciate their potential lethality and importance like we do with cars?
Can someone answer please?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

First, contrary to what you may believe, one can not own or buy a firearm freely at any age. For long guns, the general rule in most states that I am aware of requires an individual to 18 years of age. For handguns, to the best of my knowledge, the age for owning or purchasing in most states is 21. And, just like a car, some under the designated age will get their hands on one. That's called a lapse in responsibility by the owner, be it a car or a gun...


But to your broader question as to why we do not regulate firearms as we do cars, the short answer, the one you will get from anyone who would answer your query, is this:


The right to bear arms in protected by the Constitution, driving and owning an automobile is not.


You may not like the answer, you may think it trite, but there it is. Any deficiency you find with that answer is your problem...

A few years ago, I was at the sporting goods counter in wally world. In front of me was a couple and and a very young boy. He was instructing them what ammo to buy. Even though there was a sign over his shoulder forbidding underage kids from buying certain ammo, the clerk said nothing, the woman paid for the shells and handed the bag to the child.

The woman who cleans for us has an 8yo boy who she says can hardly lift the "long gun" he uses.

If reading here is any indication, more and more brain dead adults are handing guns over to children as a form of screwy defiance that the non-existent "gun grabbers" can't tell them what to do.

 

[hjmick]

Involving gun possession:
It is indeed nearly impossible to determine whether someone is criminal until they do the crime...or have "dangerous mental illness" or simply carelessness or anger management issues which don't manifest until innocents are gunned down...ranging from kids playing with unsecured weapons to mass killings by angry young men.
Apparently, there is no "perfect" solution applicable in all cases.
However; it is reasonable to predict senseless gun deaths will reduce if we treat gun ownership and use like ability to use another potentially lethal weapon: cars.
Imagine if one could drive freely at any age without the requirement to qualify for car use without safety instructions, driving tests, car registration and licensure renewal every few years...and no stop signs, traffic lights, and rules of the road to "interfere with the freedom" of ur car ownership and use.
There would be a lot more car related deaths, no? So we consider reasonable regs and licensure for car ownership and use acceptable and not obliterating "freedom".
Not so with guns.
Is it because guns are less dangerous?
Is it because they require less instruction and regulation to be safe?
Is it because we respect guns less?
Is it because we don't appreciate their potential lethality and importance like we do with cars?
Can someone answer please?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

First, contrary to what you may believe, one can not own or buy a firearm freely at any age. For long guns, the general rule in most states that I am aware of requires an individual to 18 years of age. For handguns, to the best of my knowledge, the age for owning or purchasing in most states is 21. And, just like a car, some under the designated age will get their hands on one. That's called a lapse in responsibility by the owner, be it a car or a gun...


But to your broader question as to why we do not regulate firearms as we do cars, the short answer, the one you will get from anyone who would answer your query, is this:


The right to bear arms in protected by the Constitution, driving and owning an automobile is not.


You may not like the answer, you may think it trite, but there it is. Any deficiency you find with that answer is your problem...

A few years ago, I was at the sporting goods counter in wally world. In front of me was a couple and and a very young boy. He was instructing them what ammo to buy. Even though there was a sign over his shoulder forbidding underage kids from buying certain ammo, the clerk said nothing, the woman paid for the shells and handed the bag to the child.

The woman who cleans for us has an 8yo boy who she says can hardly lift the "long gun" he uses.

If reading here is any indication, more and more brain dead adults are handing guns over to children as a form of screwy defiance that the non-existent "gun grabbers" can't tell them what to do.

That is a problem. When I had kids, when they were small, I removed all firearms from my home. Not because I didn't think I could keep them and teach my kids to be reponsible with regard to guns, but because I know how kids are. They're kids. They're curious.

Case in point...

One evening my wife and I headed out to parents night at her (our) daughter's school. I believe she was a freshman in high school... Anyway, my wife always left her keys hanging on a hook by the front door ( I know, don't get me started), I asked if she wanted to take her keys rather than leave them and her daughter at home, together. She said sure, why not? After we left the house I explained to her about removing temptation and so on... By the time we got home, the kid had taken the keys, attempted to drive it, only to back it in to the VW Bug across the street.

The kid knew better, but kids are kids after all...

 

[hazlnut]

I am sure he was a law abiding citizen, right folks?

Police say a family found dead in a burned Florida home were shot and killed by their father, who set the house alight before killing himself.

Hillsborough County Sheriff's Col Donna Lusczynski said investigators were looking to determine a motive.

The victims had rented the $1.5m (£884,468) home from former tennis star James Blake for about two years.

BBC News - 'Father killed' family in burned Florida home

He shot his wife and his two precious kids in the head before dousing the home in petrol, and setting the home alight.

Like any typical coward, he died in the blaze, too gutless to face the consequences of his actions.

But he sure deserved the right to own that firearm which killed his own family, eh?

That's Florida.

 

[Vandalshandle]

If his wife and two kids have been armed, dad would have never been able to do this......

 

[Dr Grump]

a baseball bat would do the same job!!!

You can outrun a baseball bat. Have yet to m.eet a human that can outrun a bullet.

I doubt that someone's family would feel a need to outrun a bat. But I guess he could hook a hose to a car exhaust late at night and get everyone while they're sleeping. Should we ban exhaust pipes? Kitchen knives? Ropes? Rocks? Fists? Axes? Etc.?

Blaming an inanimate object instead of the loon using it is asinine.

True. But saying America doesn't have issues when it comes to guns and crime is also asinine...

 

[CaféAuLait]

I am sure he was a law abiding citizen, right folks?

Police say a family found dead in a burned Florida home were shot and killed by their father, who set the house alight before killing himself.

Hillsborough County Sheriff's Col Donna Lusczynski said investigators were looking to determine a motive.

The victims had rented the $1.5m (£884,468) home from former tennis star James Blake for about two years.

BBC News - 'Father killed' family in burned Florida home

He shot his wife and his two precious kids in the head before dousing the home in petrol, and setting the home alight.

Like any typical coward, he died in the blaze, too gutless to face the consequences of his actions.

But he sure deserved the right to own that firearm which killed his own family, eh?

I am sure he was a law abiding citizen, right Noomi? A responsible spear gun owner?

Speargun killer John Sharpe’s elaborate deceit and murder of his pregnant wife and toddler Gracie shocked Melbourne

No Cookies | Herald Sun

Took a speargun and shot his 5 month pregnant wife in the head, not once since he did not kill her but twice. Then he allowed his daughter to play with her remains for days before purchasing yet another spear for his gun and shooting his little 20 month old girl in the head.

As she lay there screaming and crying he retrieved one of the spears from his rotting wives head then shot his little girl in the head again. She WAS STILL ALIVE, so he got the other spear out of his rotting wife's head and shot his little girl a second time in the head. -Still not killing her. So the ****** pulled one out of her head and shot her a freaking third time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharpe_family_murders

Where are your speargun bans in Australia, how can you allow this law abiding man to commit the above horrible crimes.

You want more stories of family animators from Australia, Ill be happy to supply them for you.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Australian Sef Gonzales bludgeoned and stabbed his entire family to death (3), then went to an arcade to play games.

Australian Carlos Lopez stabbed his three family members to death along with his pet dogs.

Greg Batty took a cricket bat and smashed his sons head in in front of all of his friends as they watched in horror.

Clifford Cecil Bartholomew killed 9 of his family members. ( you all released him after serving only 8 years and gave him a new identity) Only 8 months per person he murdered to include a little toddler. Sick.

Arthur Freeman drove to the top of bridge with his kids in the car, grabbed his 4 yo daughter and threw her in the river from a hundred feet up. Her brother begged their dad to turn around because "my baby sister can't swim" not realizing the gravity of the situation she died upon impact.

Robert Farquharson killed his three boys.

Raymond Langfield murdered his son then killed himself.

Peter Shoobridge slit his 4 daughters throats killing them all.

I can continue with Australia but Ill move onto the UK:

71 fathers killed their 57 members of their families in 11 years.

12 women killed 17 family members in the same amount of time.

90 percent of the time they used knives, then poisoning, smothering and carbon monoxide only a few used guns.

BBC News - Family annihilation: Fathers who kill their children

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/Inform/research/briefings/MaleBritishFamilyAnnihilators_wda97968.html




And the man you highlight in the OP, here is a guy who did the same damn thing in the UK

26 August 2008: Ruined millionaire Chris Foster, 50, shot his wife, Jill, and daughter, Kirstie, as they slept, before torching their £1.2m mansion in Shropshire. As the blaze engulfed the property, Mr Foster went back inside and died of smoke inhalation next to his 49-year-old wife.

BBC News - Family annihilation: Fathers who kill their children

23 February 2011: Claudia Oakes-Green, 44, stabbed to death her two children, Thomas, 13, and his sister Eleanor, nine, before she killed herself. Their bodies were found at their home in Shepshed, Leicestershire

30 September 2012: Ex-Army sergeant and IRA bomb survivor Michael Pedersen, 51, from Surrey, fatally stabbed his children, Ben and Freya aged six and seven, on an arranged visit with them after splitting from his wife Erica. He then took his own life.

1 January 2012: Taxi driver Michael Atherton, 42, shot dead his partner Susan McGoldrick, 47, her sister Alison Turnbull, 44, and Mrs Turnbull's daughter Tanya, 24, following a row at the couple's semi-detached home in Horden, Peterlee, County Durham, before taking his own life.

BBC News - Family annihilation: Fathers who kill their children


There are plenty more, but I never see you write about the horrid crimes from your country or the UK. Why not figure out what drives people to do this instead of trying to make this a case about 'responsible gun owners" when you have just as many family annihilators using knives and bats?

 

[freedombecki]

We don't have any mass shootings over here. We are responsible people, remember?

You don't?

Australian Mass Murders

Every society has human beings who are susceptible to brain tumors, brain diseases, mental illnesses, and sociopathic personalities.

People who aren't playing with a full deck upstairs have been known to use not only guns, but knives, fire, poison, bare hands, fists, trickery, and deceit to kill on a serial basis. Some societies do not publish criminal anomalies in order to ensure that no ideas are given to other borderline personalities to commit such atrocities.

The article lists 4 mass killings in Australia since a gun law was passed in 1996. Your population is 23.5 million, and you are the world's 6th largest country by land mass.

I wish you wise leaders and hard-working, successful people and businesses there in Australia.

It's a little difficult to understand the cultural clashes of a country populated with 330 million people living in its borders with a history like ours, but with founders who had to fight off what they believed to be unconscionable treatment by a monarch impatient with the alpha type patriots of the American Revolutionary era, we were born, warts and all.

Maybe the Second Amendment to our Constitution is a wart to outsiders, but then, it was intended to be by the founders who decided to form a union of dissenters into one body. It's hard to throw off a tradition that becomes a value. Independence is very much a value here, and guns earned us freedom from the trappings of monarchies in general. We would have a difficult time considering our history and love of forbears determined to bless their posterity with liberty.

Fondest regards to you and all people making Down Under your own paradise,

freedombecki

https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/

 

[CaféAuLait]

We don't have any mass shootings over here. We are responsible people, remember?

You don't?

Australian Mass Murders

Every society has human beings who are susceptible to brain tumors, brain diseases, mental illnesses, and sociopathic personalities.

People who aren't playing with a full deck upstairs have been known to use not only guns, but knives, fire, poison, bare hands, fists, trickery, and deceit to kill on a serial basis. Some societies do not publish criminal anomalies in order to ensure that no ideas are given to other borderline personalities to commit such atrocities.

The article lists 4 mass killings in Australia since a gun law was passed in 1996. Your population is 23.5 million, and you are the world's 6th largest country by land mass.

I wish you wise leaders and hard-working, successful people and businesses there in Australia.

It's a little difficult to understand the cultural clashes of a country populated with 330 million people living in its borders with a history like ours, but with founders who had to fight off what they believed to be unconscionable treatment by a monarch impatient with the alpha type patriots of the American Revolutionary era, we were born, warts and all.

Maybe the Second Amendment to our Constitution is a wart to outsiders, but then, it was intended to be by the founders who decided to form a union of dissenters into one body. It's hard to throw off a tradition that becomes a value. Independence is very much a value here, and guns earned us freedom from the trappings of monarchies in general. We would have a difficult time considering our history and love of forbears determined to bless their posterity with liberty.

Fondest regards to you and all people making Down Under your own paradise,

freedombecki

Indeed. She purposely skips over all the family annihilators to pretend they live in utopia.

The one case where the man shot his wife twice with spear gun in the head, let her rot for 7 days, allowed her 20 month old daughter to play with her rotting corpse then tried to do the same with his 20 month old daughter.

He shot her once and she did not die, just screamed an writhed in pain. He took the spears from her rotting mothers corpse and shot her in the head again, still not killing her. He finally had to pull one of the spears from his screaming daughters head, reload once again and shoot her for a fourth time.

But this shit does not happen in Australia or the UK. What bullshit. GMAB

 

[dr.d]

Involving gun possession:
It is indeed nearly impossible to determine whether someone is criminal until they do the crime...or have "dangerous mental illness" or simply carelessness or anger management issues which don't manifest until innocents are gunned down...ranging from kids playing with unsecured weapons to mass killings by angry young men.
Apparently, there is no "perfect" solution applicable in all cases.
However; it is reasonable to predict senseless gun deaths will reduce if we treat gun ownership and use like ability to use another potentially lethal weapon: cars.
Imagine if one could drive freely at any age without the requirement to qualify for car use without safety instructions, driving tests, car registration and licensure renewal every few years...and no stop signs, traffic lights, and rules of the road to "interfere with the freedom" of ur car ownership and use.
There would be a lot more car related deaths, no? So we consider reasonable regs and licensure for car ownership and use acceptable and not obliterating "freedom".
Not so with guns.
Is it because guns are less dangerous?
Is it because they require less instruction and regulation to be safe?
Is it because we respect guns less?
Is it because we don't appreciate their potential lethality and importance like we do with cars?
Can someone answer please?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

First, contrary to what you may believe, one can not own or buy a firearm freely at any age. For long guns, the general rule in most states that I am aware of requires an individual to 18 years of age. For handguns, to the best of my knowledge, the age for owning or purchasing in most states is 21. And, just like a car, some under the designated age will get their hands on one. That's called a lapse in responsibility by the owner, be it a car or a gun...


But to your broader question as to why we do not regulate firearms as we do cars, the short answer, the one you will get from anyone who would answer your query, is this:


The right to bear arms in protected by the Constitution, driving and owning an automobile is not.


You may not like the answer, you may think it trite, but there it is. Any deficiency you find with that answer is your problem...

A few years ago, I was at the sporting goods counter in wally world. In front of me was a couple and and a very young boy. He was instructing them what ammo to buy. Even though there was a sign over his shoulder forbidding underage kids from buying certain ammo, the clerk said nothing, the woman paid for the shells and handed the bag to the child.

The woman who cleans for us has an 8yo boy who she says can hardly lift the "long gun" he uses.

If reading here is any indication, more and more brain dead adults are handing guns over to children as a form of screwy defiance that the non-existent "gun grabbers" can't tell them what to do.

Um...I am not questioning the 2nd amendment per se...just gun enthusiasts who ignore the "well regulated" part...
Does this mean that they do not recognize and respect the potential lethality and power of guns and the need for reasonable regulation to deal with that...like we do with cars?
People do die in car accidents, but could u imagine the carnage if there were no requirements for training, licensure, and rules of the road?
Recognizing that guns are AT LEAST as potentially lethal as cars, Why shouldn't gun ownership require weapons safety and use training and gun registration and licensure?
Of course that wouldn't "solve everything"...but it would sure cut down on irresponsible gun use and deaths.
...And for u 2nd Amendment and Constitution mavens out there...it would do justice to the "well regulated"part...


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[HereWeGoAgain]

The next thing Australia needs to do is outlaw matches.

Childers Palace Fire - In June 2000, drifter and con-artist Robert Long started a fire at the Childers Palace backpackers hostel that killed 15 people.

Churchill Fire - 10 confirmed deaths due to a deliberately lit fire. The fire was lit on 7th of February 2009.

Quakers Hill Nursing Home Fire - 10 confirmed and as many as 21 people may have died as a result of a deliberately lit fire in a Quakers Hill nursing home. The fire was lit early on 18th of November 2011.

Yes, because Aussie's go on fire lighting sprees every other day.
Apples and oranges, and you know it.

They're still dead. And to tell you the truth if someones going to kill me....? I'll take a bullet over getting roasted every time.

 

[Iceweasel]

Um...I am not questioning the 2nd amendment per se...just gun enthusiasts who ignore the "well regulated" part...
Does this mean that they do not recognize and respect the potential lethality and power of guns and the need for reasonable regulation to deal with that...like we do with cars?
People do die in car accidents, but could u imagine the carnage if there were no requirements for training, licensure, and rules of the road?
Recognizing that guns are AT LEAST as potentially lethal as cars, Why shouldn't gun ownership require weapons safety and use training and gun registration and licensure?
Of course that wouldn't "solve everything"...but it would sure cut down on irresponsible gun use and deaths.
...And for u 2nd Amendment and Constitution mavens out there...it would do justice to the "well regulated"part...

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Where does it say the people need to be well regulated? I questioned your assertion before about no training leading to misuse. Repeating it over and over won't make it true.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

And?

AUSTRALIA: MORE VIOLENT CRIME DESPITE GUN BAN

Australian Gun Ban Resulted In Higher Crime Rates

Reason or Force: Australian Gun Ban Facts & Statistics -

The statistics for the years following the ban are now in:
-Accidental gun deaths are 300% higher than the pre-1997 ban rate
-The assault rate has increased 800% since 1991, and increased 200% since the 1997 gun ban.
-Robbery and armed robbery have increase 20% from the pre-97 ban rate.
-From immediately after the ban was instituted in 1997 through 2002, the robbery and armed robbery rate was up 200% over the pre-ban rates.
-In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 171 percent

Nice cherry-picking of data.

Okay, let's look at the real numbers.

Number of gun homicides in the US- 11,101
Number of gun homicides in Austrailia - 25.

In the 30 years or so they track, the highest number in Oz was 123 in 1988 (Before the gun ban) and the lowest was 15.

http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia

Now by comparison, the US low point was 9257 in 1998, and 12352 in 2005.

I moved on from guns to crime, most of us have in fact.

But like the op you only care about crime by guns.

Noted.

Yep...they ignore the people who commit most of those crimes as well.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

You cannot walk around with guns over here. As a result, we have no mass shootings. Not like this tragic story. I am not surprised, though. This will happen more and more.

My extended family (grandpas, uncles, cousins, brothers, etc.) have owned guns for many, many generations and nobody in my family has shot another member of the family. I've own a firearm since I was 12 and have never even pointed it at a family member (or anyone else for that matter).

Quit being asinine.

These days, drugs (including and perhaps especially prescription drugs) and alcohol are far more to blame for violence and irresponsibility that guns are.

There are mass shootings every other day in America, and you still insist there isn't a problem?

Every other day? Links...

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The very title of this thread is dishonest. No 'responsible' person kills his family and burns down his house. The guy is a nutjob. What is this? An attempt to say that there is no such thing as a 'responsible' gun owner? My dad suffers from PTSD and clinical depression, he own a glock and a civilian issue M16. Haven't seen him act in such a way. Pretty responsible gun owner if you ask me.

And what if that person with depression swallows their gun?

I would recommend Ducolax...STAT!!!

 

[dr.d]

HEREwgagain:
Is ur dad getting help with his PTSD and depression?


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[alan1]

Hehe, I guess Noomi has run away after the facts were presented to her. She hung in for a while, but facts always triumph over emotional outbursts given sufficient time.

 

[dr.d]

If his wife and two kids have been armed, dad would have never been able to do this......

This is irony...right?


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[HereWeGoAgain]

HEREwgagain:
Is ur dad getting help with his PTSD and depression?


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

Not sure if this was directed at me or not. Hard to say with the spelling.
If so,he'd be hard pressed to get any kind of help since he died in a horrible accident over thirty years ago.
Douche bag....