Resigning my defense of Islam

[Dr.Drock]

I was speaking of the UN vote.

I cane nothing for vast parts of the bible, even less the quran.

When was the last time you heard of christians killing infedels?
When was the last time muslims killed infedels? Last week?

Depends how you look at it, our christian army is responsible for killing a lot more "infidels" than a muslim army is responsible for killing our "infidels."

It just depends on how the culture justifies or rationalizes killing. We rationalize it as a military act so the hundreds of thousands of civilians we kill is inconsequential, they rationalize it as their god given duty when they kill so it's inconsequential. Both are disgusting and immoral to me.

Our Army is not Christian. Other than that, you are a complete idiot.

Rather than cutting and pasting what I've already said I'll type new words.

The overwhelming majority of our army is christian. If that wording sounds better to you than calling it a christian army so be it.

 

[High_Gravity]

Putting any religion in government and going by the texts is going to bring about evil.

If we went by Biblical law we too would be in favor of executing gays, and anyone who wasn't christian (at a minimum).

Combine religion and lack of money into a culture and this is what you get more often than not.

there is nothing in the bible saying one should execute gays.

there is nothing in the bible saying anyone who isn't christian should be executed. not in the new testament and certainly not in the old testament since there were no christians then.+

your conclusion is faulty.

I apologize for the wording, let me say the exact same message to better fit the words you're looking for.

The Bible says to kill people who engage in gay activities, the Bible says to kill non-believers, it's your duty to kill them even if they're in your family.

(I dunno why I did that, I'm sure those words will just be picked at as well.)

The Bible also says pre-marital sex is wrong and not to drink, most Christians don't take the Bible that literally like Muslims do with the Quran. Show me 1 Christian country where gays are stoned, where people who engage in pre-marital sex are imprisoned and where drinking is banned.

 

[High_Gravity]

Depends how you look at it, our christian army is responsible for killing a lot more "infidels" than a muslim army is responsible for killing our "infidels."

It just depends on how the culture justifies or rationalizes killing. We rationalize it as a military act so the hundreds of thousands of civilians we kill is inconsequential, they rationalize it as their god given duty when they kill so it's inconsequential. Both are disgusting and immoral to me.

Our Army is not Christian. Other than that, you are a complete idiot.

Rather than cutting and pasting what I've already said I'll type new words.

The overwhelming majority of our army is christian. If that wording sounds better to you than calling it a christian army so be it.

The majority of America is Christians so of course the Military will reflect that.

 

[Two Thumbs]

That is not a true statement. Buddhists are tolerant of Muslims. Shariah Law is antithetical to Buddhist teachings.

There is a small minority of Christian fundamentalists, Dominionists, who seek to make the US a Christian nation with the Bible the law of the land.

US soldiers are entitled to religious views. Some see the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as holy wars and put Bible quotes on their rifle scopes.

not true. They, the manufactor, puts the reference numbers. like John 3:16.

Funney how muslims use the same scopes but don't complain.

I'm sorry, but bible quotes on rifle scopes seem unchristian like to me.
Officials with Michigan-based optics maker Trijicon Inc. said Monday in news reports that their optics have been inscribed with references to Bible verses for years. In a statement released Tuesday, the company explained further.

“For two generations our Michigan-based family owned business has been working to provide America’s military men and women with high quality, innovative sighting systems for the weapons they use,” it said. “Our effort is simple and straightforward: to help our servicemen and women win the war on terror and come home safe to their families.

“As part of our faith and our belief in service to our country, Trijicon has put scripture references on our products for more than two decades. As long as we have men and women in danger, we will continue to do everything we can to provide them with both state-of-the-art technology and the never-ending support and prayers of a grateful nation.”

The use of the biblical references has been blasted by The Military Religious Freedom Foundation, an independent organization that first brought the concerns to light after being contacted by active-duty troops. Mikey Weinstein, MRFF president, conceded that Trijicon may have meant well, but the practice allows insurgents to claim the U.S. is waging a holy war and puts some troops in an unfair, unwanted situation.
Bible verses on rifle scopes prompt concern - Navy News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Navy Times

Why?

People put crosses on sheilds, used sword hilts as a cross. Put the Vets faith on his tags. Pray before battle, got blessings from Priest.

Amen and pass the amunition. (poor quote from WW2, can't recall the exact words. used when Pearl was getting bombed)

On and on.

what makes a prayer on a scope any different?

 

[Kalam]

There are no Muslims that are homosexuals. You and Ahmadinejad agree about something, why am I not surprised?

Were you planning on writing something substantive or should I not get my hopes up?

 

[Dr.Drock]

there is nothing in the bible saying one should execute gays.

there is nothing in the bible saying anyone who isn't christian should be executed. not in the new testament and certainly not in the old testament since there were no christians then.+

your conclusion is faulty.

I apologize for the wording, let me say the exact same message to better fit the words you're looking for.

The Bible says to kill people who engage in gay activities, the Bible says to kill non-believers, it's your duty to kill them even if they're in your family.

(I dunno why I did that, I'm sure those words will just be picked at as well.)

The Bible also says pre-marital sex is wrong and not to drink, most Christians don't take the Bible that literally like Muslims do with the Quran. Show me 1 Christian country where gays are stoned, where people who engage in pre-marital sex are imprisoned and where drinking is banned.

My original point was that if these texts were written into government it would have the same impact as if texts from the Quran were put into government. The Bible and Quran have equally disgusting things to say.

Thankfully christians don't take their religious book as seriously in this country as muslims do in other countries.

 

[High_Gravity]

I apologize for the wording, let me say the exact same message to better fit the words you're looking for.

The Bible says to kill people who engage in gay activities, the Bible says to kill non-believers, it's your duty to kill them even if they're in your family.

(I dunno why I did that, I'm sure those words will just be picked at as well.)

The Bible also says pre-marital sex is wrong and not to drink, most Christians don't take the Bible that literally like Muslims do with the Quran. Show me 1 Christian country where gays are stoned, where people who engage in pre-marital sex are imprisoned and where drinking is banned.

My original point was that if these texts were written into government it would have the same impact as if texts from the Quran were put into government. The Bible and Quran have equally disgusting things to say.

Thankfully christians don't take their religious book as seriously in this country as muslims do in other countries.

I agree completely.

 

[Dr.Drock]

Our Army is not Christian. Other than that, you are a complete idiot.

Rather than cutting and pasting what I've already said I'll type new words.

The overwhelming majority of our army is christian. If that wording sounds better to you than calling it a christian army so be it.

The majority of America is Christians so of course the Military will reflect that.

Exactly..............

So it's a group of christian fighters vs a group of muslim fighters, that's my point. Whether one side does or doesn't fight for religious reasons it's still people from one religion fighting against ones from another.

Plus the majority of both sides believe everyone on the other side is automatically going to hell, that can be a strong motivator also when you aren't worried about killing someone who will be in heaven.

 

[High_Gravity]

Rather than cutting and pasting what I've already said I'll type new words.

The overwhelming majority of our army is christian. If that wording sounds better to you than calling it a christian army so be it.

The majority of America is Christians so of course the Military will reflect that.

Exactly..............

So it's a group of christian fighters vs a group of muslim fighters, that's my point. Whether one side does or doesn't fight for religious reasons it's still people from one religion fighting against ones from another.

Plus the majority of both sides believe everyone on the other side is automatically going to hell, that can be a strong motivator also when you aren't worried about killing someone who will be in heaven.

The thing is there are Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Athiests etc in the US Military as well. Almost everyone on the other side is Muslims though.

 

[jillian]

Putting any religion in government and going by the texts is going to bring about evil.

If we went by Biblical law we too would be in favor of executing gays, and anyone who wasn't christian (at a minimum).

Combine religion and lack of money into a culture and this is what you get more often than not.

there is nothing in the bible saying one should execute gays.

there is nothing in the bible saying anyone who isn't christian should be executed. not in the new testament and certainly not in the old testament since there were no christians then.+

your conclusion is faulty.

I apologize for the wording, let me say the exact same message to better fit the words you're looking for.

The Bible says to kill people who engage in gay activities, the Bible says to kill non-believers, it's your duty to kill them even if they're in your family.

(I dunno why I did that, I'm sure those words will just be picked at as well.)

the bible just says not to practice homosexuality. there is nothing saying to kill gays. in fact, i don't believe that jesus mentions gays at all. he does, however, say to care for the poor over and over again.

as far as jews purportedly killing non-believers, that isn't a part of jewish culture and had specifically to do with tribal warfare during bibilical times.

there is only one religion that talks about killing infidels.

 

[California Girl]

Then why did all the mostly christian nations vote against killing gays?

You wouldn't lie about anothers faith would you?

Actually, the UK is a theocracy, with the Church of England the official religion.

If Christian Dominionism gains prominence in the US, the Bible will be the law of the land.

"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death." (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

The UK is not a theocracy, it is a democratic monarchy. It's official religion is the Church of England because the Queen is the Head of the Church of England. However, the Queen has no political power or influence. And Christianity cannot gain prominence within the US government, because we have separation of church and state. The problem with Islamic countries is that they do not have that separation.

And now, it looks like we may well see a few more Islamic states. Not good.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

 

[Two Thumbs]

there is nothing in the bible saying one should execute gays.

there is nothing in the bible saying anyone who isn't christian should be executed. not in the new testament and certainly not in the old testament since there were no christians then.+

your conclusion is faulty.

I apologize for the wording, let me say the exact same message to better fit the words you're looking for.

The Bible says to kill people who engage in gay activities, the Bible says to kill non-believers, it's your duty to kill them even if they're in your family.

(I dunno why I did that, I'm sure those words will just be picked at as well.)

the bible just says not to practice homosexuality. there is nothing saying to kill gays. in fact, i don't believe that jesus mentions gays at all. he does, however, say to care for the poor over and over again.

as far as jews purportedly killing non-believers, that isn't a part of jewish culture and had specifically to do with tribal warfare during bibilical times.

there is only one religion that talks about killing infidels.

Not to harp on the specifics.

there's only one religion that actually kills infidels.

 

[Ropey]

The German FM is a gay (Guido Westerwelle).
When he visited White-Russia, he asked Lukashenko in the press-conference what it is like for minorities like Gays in White-Russia.
Lukashenko answered: "I don't like faggots".

Don't like is not the same as remove them all or kill them all.

I actually don't like you all that much ekrem. Do I want you gone or dead?

Not at all.

Modern nation-states don't speak for Islam.

A Muslim can't be a homosexual because believing that the two sexes are complementary (and therefore exclusively sexually compatible) is a corollary of belief in Islam. Does homosexuality have legal consequences in Buddhism? Your behavior is regulated by the tenets of your own religion unless your crime involves the Muslim community. If we consider homosexuality a form of zina (which also includes adultery and heterosexual fornication,) a person can't be subjected to the hadd punishment unless there were four witnesses to the act of penetration or they bear witness against themselves four times. Hence no Muslim was executed for this crime during Muhammad's (SAWS) life who didn't choose to confess in this manner.

 

[Kalam]

the bible just says not to practice homosexuality. there is nothing saying to kill gays.

And a man who lieth with a male as one lieth with a woman; abomination both of them have done; they are certainly put to death; their blood on them. - Lev. 20:13​

 

[Dr.Drock]

there is nothing in the bible saying one should execute gays.

there is nothing in the bible saying anyone who isn't christian should be executed. not in the new testament and certainly not in the old testament since there were no christians then.+

your conclusion is faulty.

I apologize for the wording, let me say the exact same message to better fit the words you're looking for.

The Bible says to kill people who engage in gay activities, the Bible says to kill non-believers, it's your duty to kill them even if they're in your family.

(I dunno why I did that, I'm sure those words will just be picked at as well.)

the bible just says not to practice homosexuality. there is nothing saying to kill gays. in fact, i don't believe that jesus mentions gays at all. he does, however, say to care for the poor over and over again.

as far as jews purportedly killing non-believers, that isn't a part of jewish culture and had specifically to do with tribal warfare during bibilical times.

there is only one religion that talks about killing infidels.

Watch my wording, I'm saying the Bible, which includes the old testament. The Old Testament absolutely says to kill non-believers, repeatedly.

 

[Ropey]

there's only one religion that actually kills infidels.

Yes, and does so on the ground whilst Kalam spouts off pretty Islamic principles that are somewhere in the mind, but nowhere on the ground.

 

[jillian]

the bible just says not to practice homosexuality. there is nothing saying to kill gays.

And a man who lieth with a male as one lieth with a woman; abomination both of them have done; they are certainly put to death; their blood on them. - Lev. 20:13​

i stand corrected.

now let me know when the last time that was done was.

unlike in muslim countries.

 

[Kalam]

the bible just says not to practice homosexuality. there is nothing saying to kill gays.

And a man who lieth with a male as one lieth with a woman; abomination both of them have done; they are certainly put to death; their blood on them. - Lev. 20:13​

i stand corrected.

now let me know when the last time that was done was.

unlike in muslim countries.

Don't move the goalposts, jillian. It's Mosaic law whether Jews follow it or not.

 

[blu]

After investigating which of the 79 countries in the United Nations voted for the right to execute gays without cause, and seeing most of them are Muslim majority nations, I will no longer defend Islam as peaceful.

I do support the right of every American to practice their religion freely, including Muslims.

I've had good experiences with American Sufis, and enjoy Sufi poetry, but I have no problem admitting my stubbornness of clinging to these has blinded me to the dangers of Islamic law.

I was wrong. That doesn't mean I hate Muslims or feel as though there is nothing of value in Islamic spiritual practices.

you got thanked by a bunch of social cons who wish they could get gays executed here, but they liked your post b/c you ripped on islam