Republicans and the Affordable Care Act

[Oddball]

Further, we know from our own single-payer system (Medicare) that a) overhead is far less as a percentage, than private insurance;

Good thing that Medicare costs are ten times less than they were claimed to be, back when the program was started!

Oh yeah....Never mind.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

and they are both fucked in the head wrong.

Much better to have taxpayers foot the bill when people can't pay their emergency room bills.

Agreed. It would be better. It's still wrong, and we should work together to repeal it, but it's better than enslaving us to the insurance industry in perpetuity.

EMTALA was a solution looking for a problem. We were fine before it, and we'll be fine after it's repealed.

So you're OK with people dying on emergency room tables because of a paperwork glitch.

Because under your way of doing things, that's exactly what would have happened to my insured 4 month old son if he had a serious emergency during the couple months or so I was paying for his health insurance but it wasn't actually there because of a paper work glitch.

Sorry I don't wanna live in that world.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The government shoul just take the industry over completely, conscript doctors and give all forms of healthcare for free.

have you ever heard the saying; if the government managed a desert there would be a shortage of sand?

Yes, but apparently a good portion of the countries population can not look around and see what others areas of govt. management makes such a saying ring true. instead, they want to try anyway and perhaps see it for themselves. In this instance, like many, many others; healthcare.

I say go for it. Have the gubmint provide it for "free" and then we can move on to the next item of management for the govt.

Just cant get enough government!

 

[ScreamingEagle]

? ObamaCare IS RomneyCare!

no it isn't.....if you didn't like RomneyCare you could move to another state and not buy health insurance....

If you don't like the law the Congress of the United States passed you can move to another country.

if anyone needs to leave it's grubby infecting socialists like you...and your Destructive Party...

 

[Annie]

Obama was reelected, and the ACA will stay. I would like to see the GOP start working to address the flaws in Obamacare since replacing it with RomneyCare is out( not that I was looking forward to that option either).

What do you think are the odds that they will work to amend it and stop wasting time and tax payer money trying to scrap it? Also, thoughts on what the 1st change to the ACA should be?

Personally I think the GOP should totally leave Obamacare alone. Let them own this newest entitlement.

It's obvious to me that the American majority wants it just like it was written. No input from other side.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

no it isn't.....if you didn't like RomneyCare you could move to another state and not buy health insurance....

If you don't like the law the Congress of the United States passed you can move to another country.

if anyone needs to leave it's grubby infecting socialists like you...and your Destructive Party...

There's no reason for me to leave, I love my country.

 

[Oddball]

If you don't like the law the Congress of the United States passed you can move to another country.

Never thought I'd see the day where the socialists became the party of "Amurrica, love it 'er leave it".

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Obama was reelected, and the ACA will stay. I would like to see the GOP start working to address the flaws in Obamacare since replacing it with RomneyCare is out( not that I was looking forward to that option either).

What do you think are the odds that they will work to amend it and stop wasting time and tax payer money trying to scrap it? Also, thoughts on what the 1st change to the ACA should be?

Personally I think the GOP should totally leave Obamacare alone. Let them own this newest entitlement.

It's obvious to me that the American majority wants it just like it was written. No input from other side.

The Republicans are the ones who thought of the individual mandate. Its their idea.

 

[Oddball]

Obama was reelected, and the ACA will stay. I would like to see the GOP start working to address the flaws in Obamacare since replacing it with RomneyCare is out( not that I was looking forward to that option either).

What do you think are the odds that they will work to amend it and stop wasting time and tax payer money trying to scrap it? Also, thoughts on what the 1st change to the ACA should be?

Personally I think the GOP should totally leave Obamacare alone. Let them own this newest entitlement.

It's obvious to me that the American majority wants it just like it was written. No input from other side.

The Republicans are the ones who thought of the individual mandate. Its their idea.

So devoid of ideas that they have to blame republicans for the shitty ideas that they stole from them.

 

[Annie]

Obama was reelected, and the ACA will stay. I would like to see the GOP start working to address the flaws in Obamacare since replacing it with RomneyCare is out( not that I was looking forward to that option either).

What do you think are the odds that they will work to amend it and stop wasting time and tax payer money trying to scrap it? Also, thoughts on what the 1st change to the ACA should be?

Personally I think the GOP should totally leave Obamacare alone. Let them own this newest entitlement.

It's obvious to me that the American majority wants it just like it was written. No input from other side.

The Republicans are the ones who thought of the individual mandate. Its their idea.

Obamacare is Obama's, full and clear. He passed it and was re-elected because of its wild popularity. Republicans and conservatives should not impede this in any way.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Then when it comes off the rails, and it will, they will be saying it was a republican idea and therefore, it's their fault.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Much better to have taxpayers foot the bill when people can't pay their emergency room bills.

Agreed. It would be better. It's still wrong, and we should work together to repeal it, but it's better than enslaving us to the insurance industry in perpetuity.

EMTALA was a solution looking for a problem. We were fine before it, and we'll be fine after it's repealed.

So you're OK with people dying on emergency room tables because of a paperwork glitch.

Because under your way of doing things, that's exactly what would have happened to my insured 4 month old son if he had a serious emergency during the couple months or so I was paying for his health insurance but it wasn't actually there because of a paper work glitch.

Sorry I don't wanna live in that world.

more people die BEFORE they even get to the emergency room tables under Universal care...

in Great Britain ambulances wait in lines....
Ambulances 'used as waiting rooms' | Metro.co.uk

 

[Koios]

Further, we know from our own single-payer system (Medicare) that a) overhead is far less as a percentage, than private insurance;

Good thing that Medicare costs are ten times less than they were claimed to be, back when the program was started!

Oh yeah....Never mind.

Attaboy, Oddball. Let's relive the 60s, shall we?

Now then, whoduh ever thunk that healthcare costs, driven largely by insurance costs, would outpace inflation by a factor of two, and approach nearly 20 cents of every dollar in our economy? Not me. And seemingly, not folks in LBJ's Admin. Go figure.

Meanwhile, in other of them commie-lefty regimes, like France, Switzerland, etc., who have single-payer and lack all the terrific cost saving / service improving benefits of a for-profit market, they pay about half and live longer while also having about half as many still-born little miracle, on average, as we do.

Go figure.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I assume you mean "you" as in "dem dirty liberals" and not me specifically?

Feeling shy about telling us what you think is wrong with Obamacare?

Not at all.

I don't think the mandate will persuade people to purchase insruance, because more than likely the tax will be much lower than the cost of insurance. There are serious flaws in the rebate/price regulation portion of the bill, which worries me. The massive list of people and companies eligible for waivers unsettles me, again cost is to go down because so many will opt in but I think the opt in will be far less than anticipated. I also think as a whole we should be willing to admend it when issues arise, like the issue of insurance companies not selling child only polices because of the ACA. If we can't move quickly( by government standards) to amend the bill to the many problems that will naturally occur when you restructure an industry as large as insurance then Americans will suffer huge burdens.

My biggest problem is that the GOP want it to fail, I can understand that. However I worry that dems won't want to admit it needs amended and republicans would rather let Americans suffer in the hope that, if it gets really bad, they will get to finally repeal the thing.

The critical flaw is the mandate, but it much more serious than you indicate. The mandate was intended not to lower costs but to try to offset significant increases in cost produced by insuring people with pre existing conditions at standard rates and banning lifetime limits on coverage by coercing healthy people to buy insurance they don't want. The problem with the mandate is not only that the penalty is too small to motivate most of those who choose not to buy health insurance, but as written, it is unenforcible. Under the current law the IRS can only attempt to assess the penalty by taking it out of your income tax refund, but by adjusting your withholding, you can avoid having any refund due at the end of the year and so pay no penalty.

So there is no effective penalty for refusing to buy health insurance, and instead of lowering health insurance costs, Obamacare will substantially increase them, and since all the CBO estimates of the cost of Obamacare were based on the assumption that the mandate would result in nearly 100% of those who don't want to buy health insurance being coerced to do so anyway, the cost to the government of the premium subsidies will be many billions of dollars a year higher than any of those estimates.

Unless not just Democrats but liberal Democrats win super majorities in both Houses of Congress, there is no fix for the mandate. The Democratic leadership, of course, will want to increase the penalty and to allow the IRS to go after it just as it goes after delinquent taxes, with liens against salaries, seizures of property and civil and criminal actions in court, and this is how the mandate provision was originally written, but it was so unpopular that moderate Democrats joined with Republicans in opposing the Democratic leadership and Pelosi and Reid were faced with the choice of either weakening the mandate until it was effectively gone or failing to pass any bill at all.

The individual mandate is an ideological red line for most Republican voters and they will refuse to reelect any member of Congress who votes to strengthen it, so the only way to keep Obamacare from causing health insurance rates from skyrocketing is to find some other mechanism for dealing with the needs of people with pre existing condition and to continue to allow people to choose to pay less for insurance with limited coverage or to pay more for insurance with no lifetime limits. Of course, this means two of the key selling points for Obamacare will be gone and it will make it much easier for its critics to modify much of the rest of it out of existence.

In 2016, Democratic candidates will be asked why they passed a bill with an individual mandate they knew wouldn't work and that would cause health insurance rates to go up even more rapidly.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

C'mon, man! It's good for the planet!

 

[Oddball]

So you're OK with people dying on emergency room tables because of a paperwork glitch.

Because under your way of doing things, that's exactly what would have happened to my insured 4 month old son if he had a serious emergency during the couple months or so I was paying for his health insurance but it wasn't actually there because of a paper work glitch.

Sorry I don't wanna live in that world.

If it's one thing that gubmint is renowned for, it's total absence of paperwork glitches!

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Agreed. It would be better. It's still wrong, and we should work together to repeal it, but it's better than enslaving us to the insurance industry in perpetuity.

EMTALA was a solution looking for a problem. We were fine before it, and we'll be fine after it's repealed.

So you're OK with people dying on emergency room tables because of a paperwork glitch.

Because under your way of doing things, that's exactly what would have happened to my insured 4 month old son if he had a serious emergency during the couple months or so I was paying for his health insurance but it wasn't actually there because of a paper work glitch.

Sorry I don't wanna live in that world.

more people die BEFORE they even get to the emergency room tables under Universal care...

in Great Britain ambulances wait in lines....
Ambulances 'used as waiting rooms' | Metro.co.uk

I'm not surprised that you would be OK with children dying on the emergency room table because their parents could not afford health insurance, but I am a bit surprised you would have been OK with my insured son dying because some grown-ups messed up some paperwork.

If you are ever in a life critical emergency and unable to provide proof of your own health insurance - will you be OK with dying? A simple yes or no will be fine.


And as to the Great Britain comment which is of limited relevance considering we don't have socialized medicine like they do and its probably a half bullshit story anyway - I'd far rather my son be in a ambulance in a life critical emergency than set on the side of the road to expire.

 

[Annie]

Further, we know from our own single-payer system (Medicare) that a) overhead is far less as a percentage, than private insurance;

Good thing that Medicare costs are ten times less than they were claimed to be, back when the program was started!

Oh yeah....Never mind.

Attaboy, Oddball. Let's relive the 60s, shall we?

Now then, whoduh ever thunk that healthcare costs, driven largely by insurance costs, would outpace inflation by a factor of two, and approach nearly 20 cents of every dollar in our economy? Not me. And seemingly, not folks in LBJ's Admin. Go figure.

Meanwhile, in other of them commie-lefty regimes, like France, Switzerland, etc., who have single-payer and lack all the terrific cost saving / service improving benefits of a for-profit market, they pay about half and live longer while also having about half as many still-born little miracle, on average, as we do.

Go figure.

Agreed. No more discussion of what might have been, such as a discussion of ending 'insurance' for routine healthcare and addressing the issues of catastrophic healthcare. That is out the door.

Nope, Obama got this plan through, with no help from Republicans/conservatives. It's his and he gets all the credit. Over the next for years, conservatives should be a rubber stamp for his ideas, making clear that they are following the advice of this election, to not obstruct any and all ideas from the administration.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

 

[Oddball]

Further, we know from our own single-payer system (Medicare) that a) overhead is far less as a percentage, than private insurance;

Good thing that Medicare costs are ten times less than they were claimed to be, back when the program was started!

Oh yeah....Never mind.

Attaboy, Oddball. Let's relive the 60s, shall we?

Now then, whoduh ever thunk that healthcare costs, driven largely by insurance costs, would outpace inflation by a factor of two, and approach nearly 20 cents of every dollar in our economy? Not me. And seemingly, not folks in LBJ's Admin. Go figure.

Meanwhile, in other of them commie-lefty regimes, like France, Switzerland, etc., who have single-payer and lack all the terrific cost saving / service improving benefits of a for-profit market, they pay about half and live longer while also having about half as many still-born little miracle, on average, as we do.

Go figure.

Oh, suuuuuure...The fact that a gubmint program costs more than 10 times more than it was claimed to (counting inflation, BTW), it's all the fault of the marketplace!

Goddamn, are you Marxist stooges a hoot!