Republican tax cut will not trickle down

[Boss]

It's been five years, what the **** have you clueless idiots done to improve detroit?

LMFAO.... Detroit?

Yet another example of where DEMOCRATS fucked thing up royally and now have the unmitigated gall to blame REPUBLICANS! ...While moaning and whining for more money to implement more of the same failed Democrap policies!

These people have NO SHAME!

 

[The Derp]

Based on what metric?
Based on the weakest recovery since WWII.

Largest collapse since then too. Thanks, Bush and Conservatives for that. So all you're doing is Monday Morning Quarterbacking the recovery that you refused to help and participate in because you were personally upset that a black guy became President, achieving something you will never be able to do.

Corporate tax rates.

The corporate tax rate has no bearing on consumer demand, business growth, or business investment.

Weird, their GDP per capita is even higher than ours..

But it grew at nearly the same rate. Which means that if it was anything like here in the US, the GDP-per-capita for the 1% grew astronomically, while per-capita-GDP grew nominally for everyone else.

Post your data and prove your own point.

No, no. It's your data, so you should know it inside and out before posting it. Seems to me you did a very rushed, sloppy job of it because you cannot speak to what the GDP growth per capita, per income group was/is. Which is something you should know before posting, specifically because you're most likely misrepresenting the growth in GDP-per-capita. Knowing that information lets us know that the "growth" in Ireland was almost entirely growth at the top, while everyone else was left behind. Just like what you say happened here. So until you can accurately defend you data set, it can't be submitted into this debate because it's rushed, sloppy, and incomplete. I actually think you have the numbers on individual income groups and their per-capita-GDP growth and are deliberately holding those numbers back because they show that while growth for the 1% was great, it wasn't for anyone else, and that the per-capita-GDP is skewed upward by the top.

And if you don't have that data, then you just admitted to posting crap you didn't bother to vet, which means you're just a troll.

To prove they made things worse you'd have to show Ireland would be better off with the old, higher rates.

Actually, that's on you to prove since you're the one making the claim that it helped them (and you haven't posted any economic numbers about Ireland this entire thread, which means you're in the "take my word for it" space. We can find this out rather quickly if you posted information about per-capita GDP growth by income group, but you refuse. Obviously because it proves my point, or because you didn't bother to put in the effort. I did. And in doing so, saw that the results of 20 years of Ireland's tax cuts are a highly volatile and unstable economy, one that contracts on average at least once a year.

Weird, their GDP per capita is even higher than ours..

But it grew at nearly the same rate.

In 1995, their GDP per capita was about 1/3rd lower than ours.
In 2005, their GDP per capita was about 10% higher than ours.

If you think that's "nearly the same rate", you may be a liberal idiot.

Actually, that's on you to prove since you're the one making the claim that it helped them

Ummmm....67% our GDP per capita to 110% our GDP per capita in 10 years....pretty clear it helped them.

Seems to me you did a very rushed, sloppy job of it because you cannot speak to what the GDP growth per capita, per income group was/is.

Waaaahhh.....here's a little info to stop your sobbing.....

View attachment 165642

View attachment 165645

The Average Industrial Wage and the Irish Economy - CSO - Central Statistics Office

View attachment 165646

Sectoral Earnings - CSO - Central Statistics Office

Feel free to go to my source to try to prove their huge GDP growth was bad for them.

So the same tax cuts that produced all of what you're saying inevitably resulted in Ireland's current economic state. Because those tax cuts are still in effect, aren't they? So you're basically saying that the Yankees won because they led through the 7th inning, while deliberately ignoring innings 8 and 9 where they blew the lead and lost the game.

Notice how none of the economic good news happens post 2010? In fact, all your economic good news seems to mysteriously cut off in 2005. Well, Ireland's had those tax rates since 2005. So where's all your current data? Nowhere.

And you still haven't bothered to address where that growth in GDP per capita actually occurred. The reason is because if we dip a toe into the depth of what you're saying, we find that GDP per capita growth (which proves what, by the way??) was increased because the top 1% saw such a huge increase to their income. So it brought the whole average up. You know this, of course, but are making a sophist argument anyway because of the shit pile you call your ego.

 

[Thinker101]

Explain that to the people in cities like Detroit.

Oh, you mean the city under Conservative control since 2012? It's been five years, what the **** have you clueless idiots done to improve detroit? Nothing. You deliberately keep it shitty just so you can use it as a talking point.

And by the way, Republicans in the Michigan State Legislature cut welfare spending to put towards reducing the astronomical deficit they caused.

Yeah, you must be talking about a different Detroit.
Detroit, MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn’t elected a Republican mayor since 1961;
Democrats Run America's Ten Poorest Cities - Eagle Rising

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You mean the economy that set a record of 92 consecutive months of peacetime prosperity and created over 14 million jobs?

So what happened at the end of that economy? Oh right, it collapsed resulting in the largest taxpayer-funded bailout until Bush the Dumber's. Because -as always- it's a Conservative economy built on debt and the bill came due almost immediately in the form of the recession that hit during Bush the Elder. What do you think caused that recession? Reagan's debt-based economy.

In the case of the 80's, the S&L's that Reagan was pumping and promoting his entire term.

So you do the same thing Toddster does...you deliberately cherry pick data sets to make your argument look better than it really is.

And what else happened during Reagan? The debt tripled and the deficit doubled. Amount of outrage from you: NONE.

So what happened at the end of that economy?

A shallow recession.

Oh right, it collapsed

Collapse? DURR!
The economy had already been growing for well over a year while Clinton was whining about the worst economy in 50 years. He lied then like you lie now.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If that were the case, tax cuts would lead to reduced spending and no deficits.

The result in economic contraction. That's why Bush's economy was shit, and relied on debt to grow:

If the tax cut supposedly gave them more money, why were they having to use their homes as ATMs to pay for things? Obviously because the tax cut is a crock, like everything you believe and represent.

The result in economic contraction.

Show me the government spending cuts that led to the economic contraction.

 

[The Derp]

Cutting the spending and raising the taxes, is my idea of strengthening our country

How does that strengthen the economy if you're reducing spending? Show your work.

not sure why you think I want to cut taxes, I want to raise them and cut spending but I have told you that over and over. The smaller the deficit the better our economy will become as it is not dependent on government to take care of our needs.

The deficit has no bearing on the economy. You don't go out and buy a car because of the size of the federal deficit. You don't buy a home because of the size of the deficit. You don't decide to send your kid to whatever college because of the federal deficit. This is like amateur hour, here. Even someone with a cursory knowledge of economics knows this. So what's your ******* excuse?

If you have proof I am a Russian, then post it or shut up about it, I tire you you left wingers playing silly and childish personal games are used to minimize others arguments and are extremely dishonest. So put up or shut up.Your personal attacks in zone 2 are against the TOS.

You parrot Russian bullshit, you post Russian-created memes. So what am I supposed to think? Because I have to think you're either a Russian troll, or someone suckered by Russian trolls.

 

[sartre play]

No matter how you feel about the tax plan one thing is clear, all the good stuff is made permanent for the rich, all the good stuff for the rest of us starts going away after the 2020 election, & ends up with us paying more taxes & once again a huge addition to the national debt.

 

[The Derp]

It's been five years, what the **** have you clueless idiots done to improve detroit?

LMFAO.... Detroit?

Yet another example of where DEMOCRATS fucked thing up royally and now have the unmitigated gall to blame REPUBLICANS! ...While moaning and whining for more money to implement more of the same failed Democrap policies!

These people have NO SHAME!

So I don't believe you even realized Detroit has been under the control of your Conservative friends for years. In fact, the MI state legislature, the one using welfare to pay for tax cuts, has been Conservative since 2010.

So it's been seven years and you've done nothing to improve Detroit.

So it's now on you. Just like it was on you to produce an Obamacare replacement plan that you never did.

Why? Because you're a bunch of lazy, entitled pricks who don't contribute.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Based on what metric?
Based on the weakest recovery since WWII.

Largest collapse since then too. Thanks, Bush and Conservatives for that. So all you're doing is Monday Morning Quarterbacking the recovery that you refused to help and participate in because you were personally upset that a black guy became President, achieving something you will never be able to do.

Corporate tax rates.

The corporate tax rate has no bearing on consumer demand, business growth, or business investment.

Weird, their GDP per capita is even higher than ours..

But it grew at nearly the same rate. Which means that if it was anything like here in the US, the GDP-per-capita for the 1% grew astronomically, while per-capita-GDP grew nominally for everyone else.

Post your data and prove your own point.

No, no. It's your data, so you should know it inside and out before posting it. Seems to me you did a very rushed, sloppy job of it because you cannot speak to what the GDP growth per capita, per income group was/is. Which is something you should know before posting, specifically because you're most likely misrepresenting the growth in GDP-per-capita. Knowing that information lets us know that the "growth" in Ireland was almost entirely growth at the top, while everyone else was left behind. Just like what you say happened here. So until you can accurately defend you data set, it can't be submitted into this debate because it's rushed, sloppy, and incomplete. I actually think you have the numbers on individual income groups and their per-capita-GDP growth and are deliberately holding those numbers back because they show that while growth for the 1% was great, it wasn't for anyone else, and that the per-capita-GDP is skewed upward by the top.

And if you don't have that data, then you just admitted to posting crap you didn't bother to vet, which means you're just a troll.

To prove they made things worse you'd have to show Ireland would be better off with the old, higher rates.

Actually, that's on you to prove since you're the one making the claim that it helped them (and you haven't posted any economic numbers about Ireland this entire thread, which means you're in the "take my word for it" space. We can find this out rather quickly if you posted information about per-capita GDP growth by income group, but you refuse. Obviously because it proves my point, or because you didn't bother to put in the effort. I did. And in doing so, saw that the results of 20 years of Ireland's tax cuts are a highly volatile and unstable economy, one that contracts on average at least once a year.

Weird, their GDP per capita is even higher than ours..

But it grew at nearly the same rate.

In 1995, their GDP per capita was about 1/3rd lower than ours.
In 2005, their GDP per capita was about 10% higher than ours.

If you think that's "nearly the same rate", you may be a liberal idiot.

Actually, that's on you to prove since you're the one making the claim that it helped them

Ummmm....67% our GDP per capita to 110% our GDP per capita in 10 years....pretty clear it helped them.

Seems to me you did a very rushed, sloppy job of it because you cannot speak to what the GDP growth per capita, per income group was/is.

Waaaahhh.....here's a little info to stop your sobbing.....

View attachment 165642

View attachment 165645

The Average Industrial Wage and the Irish Economy - CSO - Central Statistics Office

View attachment 165646

Sectoral Earnings - CSO - Central Statistics Office

Feel free to go to my source to try to prove their huge GDP growth was bad for them.

So the same tax cuts that produced all of what you're saying inevitably resulted in Ireland's current economic state. Because those tax cuts are still in effect, aren't they? So you're basically saying that the Yankees won because they led through the 7th inning, while deliberately ignoring innings 8 and 9 where they blew the lead and lost the game.

Notice how none of the economic good news happens post 2010? In fact, all your economic good news seems to mysteriously cut off in 2005. Well, Ireland's had those tax rates since 2005. So where's all your current data? Nowhere.

And you still haven't bothered to address where that growth in GDP per capita actually occurred. The reason is because if we dip a toe into the depth of what you're saying, we find that GDP per capita growth (which proves what, by the way??) was increased because the top 1% saw such a huge increase to their income. So it brought the whole average up. You know this, of course, but are making a sophist argument anyway because of the shit pile you call your ego.

So the same tax cuts that produced all of what you're saying inevitably resulted in Ireland's current economic state.

The economic state where their GDP is much, much larger than it was 20 years ago. I agree.

Because those tax cuts are still in effect, aren't they?

Yup. And the EU is still whining about the unfair competition.


Ireland’s tax regime is the most “business friendly” among European Union nations, according to a new report by accountancy giant PwC and the World Bank Group. It finds that Ireland’s tax system once again ranks as the most effective in the EU for paying business taxes and is the fourth most effective worldwide.


Ireland performs strongly on both tax contribution rate and compliance metrics, according to the Paying Taxes 2018 report. A medium-sized company in Ireland will pay a total of 26 per cent of its profits in taxes compared to 39.6 per cent across the EU and 40.5 per cent globally, it found.

Ireland’s tax regime is most ‘business friendly’ among EU

Notice how none of the economic good news happens post 2010?

The financial crisis hit Ireland hard.

And you still haven't bothered to address where that growth in GDP per capita actually occurred.

If it will help you rinse the sand out of your vagina, find data that backs up your ignorant whining.
Post it and I'll be glad to point out your confusion.

 

[The Derp]

So what happened at the end of that economy?

So you just did the thing you always do; set yourself up within narrow parameters you've drawn to cast your argument in a favorable light.

I wasn't talking Ireland's economy before these tax cuts, I was talking about Ireland's present economy, which is still currrently operating under these tax cuts, right? RIGHT? That's what you don't want to recognize because it shows the culmination of 20 years of shit policy resulting in volatility, increased poverty among working class Irish, and at least one of quarter economic contraction per year, and more than one quarter of contraction over ten years. In fact, 33% of the time, Ireland's economy contracts. That's the economic model you want to hold up? Fine.

How toddster debates:

A shallow recession.

Nah...at least one quarter of economic contraction per year over the last 4, and more than one quarter of economic contraction per year over the last 10,

That's the end result and culmination of your shit policy.

So you can continue living in the past while ignoring the present. But if your argument is that we should emulate Ireland, I'd ask why do you want a volatile economy and quarters every year where the economy contracts?

The answer is that you don't know anything about economics, and all this is off the top of your head.

AThe economy had already been growing for well over a year while Clinton was whining about the worst economy in 50 years. He lied then like you lie now.

Ah, the economy was growing for well over a year you say? Gee, could Bush's tax increases have anything to do with that?

 

[Thinker101]

Explain that to the people in cities like Detroit.

Oh, you mean the city under Conservative control since 2012? It's been five years, what the **** have you clueless idiots done to improve detroit? Nothing. You deliberately keep it shitty just so you can use it as a talking point.

And by the way, Republicans in the Michigan State Legislature cut welfare spending to put towards reducing the astronomical deficit they caused.

Yeah, you must be talking about a different Detroit.
Detroit, MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn’t elected a Republican mayor since 1961;
Democrats Run America's Ten Poorest Cities - Eagle Rising

Hey you stupid asshole, do some reading on the Emergency Managers. Also, MI's lagislature has been Conservative since 2011.

Did you know that? No. Because you know nothing, Jon Snow.

Well, Dumbass, emergency managers typically move in when a city or school district have run out of money.
7 things to know about Michigan's emergency manager law

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No matter how you feel about the tax plan one thing is clear, all the good stuff is made permanent for the rich, all the good stuff for the rest of us starts going away after the 2020 election, & ends up with us paying more taxes & once again a huge addition to the national debt.

all the good stuff for the rest of us starts going away after the 2020 election

Why would it go away? Are you saying that if the Republicans introduced a bill to make the "good stuff for the rest of us" permanent, the Dems would resist?

Maybe the Dems could introduce such a bill, right?
Then we could see who supports that good stuff, Dems or Republicans.
Because the Dems are all about letting people keep more of their own money, eh comrade?

 

[Papageorgio]

Cutting the spending and raising the taxes, is my idea of strengthening our country

How does that strengthen the economy if you're reducing spending? Show your work.

not sure why you think I want to cut taxes, I want to raise them and cut spending but I have told you that over and over. The smaller the deficit the better our economy will become as it is not dependent on government to take care of our needs.

The deficit has no bearing on the economy. You don't go out and buy a car because of the size of the federal deficit. You don't buy a home because of the size of the deficit. You don't decide to send your kid to whatever college because of the federal deficit. This is like amateur hour, here. Even someone with a cursory knowledge of economics knows this. So what's your ******* excuse?

If you have proof I am a Russian, then post it or shut up about it, I tire you you left wingers playing silly and childish personal games are used to minimize others arguments and are extremely dishonest. So put up or shut up.Your personal attacks in zone 2 are against the TOS.

You parrot Russian bullshit, you post Russian-created memes. So what am I supposed to think? Because I have to think you're either a Russian troll, or someone suckered by Russian trolls.

Again, prove it or don’t. Your choice.

Why do I need to constantly repeat myself, the economy would hurt in the short run, in the long run, the government being fiscally sound would benefit us in the long run. That is why it will never fly, neither party wants to make a tough call because it is very unpopular.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So what happened at the end of that economy?

So you just did the thing you always do; set yourself up within narrow parameters you've drawn to cast your argument in a favorable light.

I wasn't talking Ireland's economy before these tax cuts, I was talking about Ireland's present economy, which is still currrently operating under these tax cuts, right? RIGHT? That's what you don't want to recognize because it shows the culmination of 20 years of shit policy resulting in volatility, increased poverty among working class Irish, and at least one of quarter economic contraction per year, and more than one quarter of contraction over ten years. In fact, 33% of the time, Ireland's economy contracts. That's the economic model you want to hold up? Fine.

How toddster debates:

A shallow recession.

Nah...at least one quarter of economic contraction per year over the last 4, and more than one quarter of economic contraction per year over the last 10,

That's the end result and culmination of your shit policy.

So you can continue living in the past while ignoring the present. But if your argument is that we should emulate Ireland, I'd ask why do you want a volatile economy and quarters every year where the economy contracts?

The answer is that you don't know anything about economics, and all this is off the top of your head.

AThe economy had already been growing for well over a year while Clinton was whining about the worst economy in 50 years. He lied then like you lie now.

Ah, the economy was growing for well over a year you say? Gee, could Bush's tax increases have anything to do with that?

That's the economic model you want to hold up? Fine.

Ireland went from the weak sister of Europe to having a higher GDP per capita than the UK, France, Netherlands and even Germany!!!

Fuckin' A that's the economic model I want to hold up!!!!!
I'll leave it to a retard like you to scramble for proof they're worse off.

 

[danielpalos]

Tax cuts are bad because it increases the deficit, yet increasing spending is good because deficits don’t matter. Is that the left’s position?

Providing for the general welfare must engender a positive multiplier on our economy.

 

[danielpalos]

They should increase for everybody.....like they did during the recession.
Like they do during every recession.

Except that because of your policies, the middle and lower classes were in debt before and during your recession. You can't save when you're in debt. All you can do is pay down the debt, but that's not savings...that's paying down debt.

And as they pay down their debt they begin to save. Maybe even learning to not spend so much.

Right wing policies will add to the debt.

Why is that, because lefties want more free stuff.

Like promoting the general welfare instead of the general warfare?

 

[The Derp]

The economic state where their GDP is much, much larger than it was 20 years ago. I agree.

It's not 1997, it's 2017. Try and join us in this century. We now have 20 years of policy to examine and the culmination of that policy is shit. The only thing you're hanging your hot on is the rather vague and ambiguous GDP-per-capita while still refusing to provide the data showing if that rise in GDP per capita was among all groups, or really just the top. Obviously, it was just the top...otherwise you would have posted that data. You're pretty transparent in your sophistry. .And you never account for the fact that Ireland's economy is volatile, experiencing at least one quarter of economic contraction a year.

Yup. And the EU is still whining about the unfair competition..

No whining in that article. And so what? Doesn't make a difference if it's easy for businesses...the volatile state of Ireland's economy outweighs that. Also, Ireland's unemployment is higher, and its low tax rate caused its current mortgage crisis, which I'll get to in a second...

The financial crisis hit Ireland hard.

Really? Cause most everyone else seems to have recovered from it except Ireland. Why? Well, the answer is pretty obvious; Ireland's trafficking in those same garbage subprimes as they did here. Because of the "low tax rate". Funny how whenever Conservatives cut taxes, it almost always inevitably results in a bubble of some kind.

Irish sub-prime mortgage arrears are going through the roof
NOTE THE DATE: March 17th, 2015
19,935 mortgage loans issued by such lenders were in arrears of more than 90 days as at end December 2014, an increase of almost 2,000 since end September.​

So Ireland "attracts" businesses with its low tax rate, then those businesses then inflate a subprime mortgage market after the collapse. This is the economy you want us to have. Why is it that whenever you post something, it always ends up being a half-truth or outright lie?

If it will help you rinse the sand out of your vagina, find data that backs up your ignorant whining.
Post it and I'll be glad to point out your confusion.

It's YOUR DATA. You submitted it. Time for you to put on your big boy pants and put in the effort required for you to know what you're saying and supporting your "sources". Unless you're going to admit to me that you didn't bother to vet the data you were vomiting up here, either because you're too lazy or too corrupt. You're representing it as beneficial to the Irish,but you clam up when pressed for detail because you either don't know, or you do know and are deliberately holding the info back because it ruins your argument and proves my point that the gains from Ireland's tax cut went almost entirely to the top. And that's what skews their GDP-per-Capita. You got the data, it's on you to know it. Pleading ignorance and laziness isn't acceptable.

 

[The Derp]

Explain that to the people in cities like Detroit.

Oh, you mean the city under Conservative control since 2012? It's been five years, what the **** have you clueless idiots done to improve detroit? Nothing. You deliberately keep it shitty just so you can use it as a talking point.

And by the way, Republicans in the Michigan State Legislature cut welfare spending to put towards reducing the astronomical deficit they caused.

Yeah, you must be talking about a different Detroit.
Detroit, MI (1st on the poverty rate list) hasn’t elected a Republican mayor since 1961;
Democrats Run America's Ten Poorest Cities - Eagle Rising

Hey you stupid asshole, do some reading on the Emergency Managers. Also, MI's lagislature has been Conservative since 2011.

Did you know that? No. Because you know nothing, Jon Snow.

Well, Dumbass, emergency managers typically move in when a city or school district have run out of money.
7 things to know about Michigan's emergency manager law

Which happened in 2012 in Detroit. So you guys had been running Detroit since 2012. You guys had been running the state of Michigan since 2011. And in the 6-7 years since have done nothing to improve anything.

 

[The Derp]

[Why do I need to constantly repeat myself, the economy would hurt in the short run, in the long run, the government being fiscally sound would benefit us in the long run. That is why it will never fly, neither party wants to make a tough call because it is very unpopular.

What does the fiscal state of the government have to do with consumer spending and demand? Nothing. You're trying to tie them together because you are a fool with no clue of what you're saying.

 

[The Derp]

I'll leave it to a retard like you to scramble for proof they're worse off.

So that's total GDP-per-Capita.

What's the GDP-per-capita growth by percentile? That's how we can tell if the growth in GDP per capita was spread among all income groups, or just among the top as I suspect.

OH RIGHT you don't have that information because in your sloppy and lazy attempt to debate, you didn't bother to ask the questions required to get a better grasp of what you're saying.
;
So we have a nice little one-act play:

Act One
Setting: USMB

You (screeching): Look at the high GDP-per-Capita
Me: So what's the GDP per capita by percentile?
You (screeching): I DON'T KNOW, YOU DO THE WORK I SHOULD HAVE DONE BEFORE MAKING AN ARGUMENT THAT WASN'T FUNDAMENTALLY SOUND!
Me: ::face palm::

So you can't argue that Ireland's tax rate boosted GDP per capita for working class Irish because you lack the data (or will to post the data) because you very lazily and sloppily rushed through your response. So you're making a false point knowingly all to preserve the pile of shit you call your ego.