Removing algebra as a requirement for non-STEM college majors.

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No, I disagree with this. We actually do use Algebra in our everyday lives more than we realize.

Absolutely. Moreover, it helps to teach basic principles of logic that, quite clearly, much of adult america is utterly lacking.

 

[RandomPoster]

No, I disagree with this. We actually do use Algebra in our everyday lives more than we realize.

Absolutely. Moreover, it helps to teach basic principles of logic that, quite clearly, much of adult america is utterly lacking.

I believe that many introductory STEM courses would make very good general education electives for training in logical reasoning ability and judgement. I often chuckle at the idea that STEM doesn't teach critical thinking skills.

 

[james bond]

This isn't STEM, but a requirement for community college students to get into a 4-yr college. This is probably the best chance for these students from poor backgrounds to break the cycle of poverty. Otherwise, they'll be forced to join the military to go fight the Mooslims and Red Chinese, get low paying jobs as adults and end up on welfare, or worse. 48% rate isn't that great. Instead, these students will take statistics or math classes more relevant to their major. That seems like a fair trade off if the CC admins can show an improvement to around 60%.

Heh. I was right. They did drop the requirement. I would be a STEM candidate if I was going to HS today, and can figure these things out while the OP beotches and post articles from years ago.

Cal State drops intermediate algebra as requirement to take some college-level math courses

 

[BULLDOG]

Next they will be dropping everything that does not strictly apply to the major.

Then you will have training, not education.

Leave the algebra in.

But... isn't that the point? Why do you think people go to college? To just have information? Or to have something that prepares them from a job?

Do you think anyone anywhere, would pay for college, if it did not result in a job?

Perhaps that is the problem with education in general, and why students do not take it seriously, is because half the stuff they learn, they will never use, and quickly forget.... which defeats the entire point.

And I'm speaking from experience. I went to college, and I would say about 10% of what I learned in college, I still remember.

As for specifically algebra, I both think every student should know algebra, and that it should not be taught in college.

I believe that algebra is important and needed in life... but that this is a duty of the high school. High school is supposed to give you the necessary teaching that you need for every day life.

College is for the specific information you need to have a career.

But the point of college is training for a career. Why would we go to college, just to be "educated"? That makes no sense. Why pay money to learn things, that have no value in the real world?

If the only point is training for a career, a trade school should suffice. Education for the sake of being educated is still a valid reason.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Next they will be dropping everything that does not strictly apply to the major.

Then you will have training, not education.

Is that really such a bad thing, though? In the years I've been in corporate America I haven't exactly been impressed with many of the college "educated" people I've had to work with. I personally think they had it right years ago when they did apprenticeships. Why can't we have a combination of both?

 

[RandomPoster]

This isn't STEM, but a requirement for community college students to get into a 4-yr college. This is probably the best chance for these students from poor backgrounds to break the cycle of poverty. Otherwise, they'll be forced to join the military to go fight the Mooslims and Red Chinese, get low paying jobs as adults and end up on welfare, or worse. 48% rate isn't that great. Instead, these students will take statistics or math classes more relevant to their major. That seems like a fair trade off if the CC admins can show an improvement to around 60%.

Heh. I was right. They did drop the requirement. I would be a STEM candidate if I was going to HS today, and can figure these things out while the OP beotches and post articles from years ago.

Cal State drops intermediate algebra as requirement to take some college-level math courses

"48% rate isn't that great. Instead, these students will take statistics or math classes more relevant to their major. That seems like a fair trade off if the CC admins can show an improvement to around 60%."

Why would the pass rate go up from 48% to 60% if the other math classes are as rigorous?

From the article you linked to:

“The test of being successful in first-year law school has to do with logic, with being analytical. It doesn’t have to do at all with quantitative skills,” he said in an interview."

First, Mathematics is about as logical and analytic as you can get. I would also question how many successful lawyers lacked the aptitude to pass Algebra. Perhaps offering a pre-Algebra course students can opt to take instead, leaving them with the option of taking Algebra later might be a better option.

 

[OnePercenter]

algebra is easy for the average person

Show us.

 

[RodISHI]

Drop algebra requirement for non-STEM majors, California community colleges chief says

There are a growing number of educational psychologists who are advocating that non-STEM students not be forced to take Algebra to get a college degree.

“College-level algebra is probably the greatest barrier for students — particularly first-generation students, students of color — obtaining a credential,” he said. “If we know we’re disadvantaging large swaths of students who we need in the workforce, we have to question why. And is algebra really the only means we have to determine whether a student is going to be successful in their life?

“I think there’s a growing body of evidence and advocates that say ‘no’ — that there are more relevant, just as rigorous, math pathways that we feel students should have the ability to take,” he said."

One question I have is this. If the alternate pathway is "just as rigorous", won't it be "just as" great of a barrier? I believe a better solution is to do a better job preparing students for Algebra before they take it.

Even pipefitters use Algebra and simple Algebra isn't all to hard to learn if taught correctly.

 

[OnePercenter]

Here is some BS about algebra.

13 Examples Of Algebra In Everyday Life – StudiousGuy

 

[OnePercenter]

Drop algebra requirement for non-STEM majors, California community colleges chief says

There are a growing number of educational psychologists who are advocating that non-STEM students not be forced to take Algebra to get a college degree.

“College-level algebra is probably the greatest barrier for students — particularly first-generation students, students of color — obtaining a credential,” he said. “If we know we’re disadvantaging large swaths of students who we need in the workforce, we have to question why. And is algebra really the only means we have to determine whether a student is going to be successful in their life?

“I think there’s a growing body of evidence and advocates that say ‘no’ — that there are more relevant, just as rigorous, math pathways that we feel students should have the ability to take,” he said."

One question I have is this. If the alternate pathway is "just as rigorous", won't it be "just as" great of a barrier? I believe a better solution is to do a better job preparing students for Algebra before they take it.

Even pipefitters use Algebra and simple Algebra isn't all to hard to learn if taught correctly.

Isn't it more experience and building codes that determine the size, length, and slope of pipe?

 

[RodISHI]

Drop algebra requirement for non-STEM majors, California community colleges chief says

There are a growing number of educational psychologists who are advocating that non-STEM students not be forced to take Algebra to get a college degree.

“College-level algebra is probably the greatest barrier for students — particularly first-generation students, students of color — obtaining a credential,” he said. “If we know we’re disadvantaging large swaths of students who we need in the workforce, we have to question why. And is algebra really the only means we have to determine whether a student is going to be successful in their life?

“I think there’s a growing body of evidence and advocates that say ‘no’ — that there are more relevant, just as rigorous, math pathways that we feel students should have the ability to take,” he said."

One question I have is this. If the alternate pathway is "just as rigorous", won't it be "just as" great of a barrier? I believe a better solution is to do a better job preparing students for Algebra before they take it.

Even pipefitters use Algebra and simple Algebra isn't all to hard to learn if taught correctly.

Isn't it more experience and building codes that determine the size, length, and slope of pipe?

Pipefitters do all that fancy piping you see in anything from factories to nuclear plants. Plumbers do pipes in residential and commercial settings. Both require pretty good math skills and the ability to read specs and blue prints if one is good at their trade. If they don't have the math skills they are very likely to read blue prints off or backwards. We had a three million dollar facility where the prime did the backwards grades. Talk about a mess everything ran into the vents instead of the floor drains. Also if a contractor has the skills they be more likely to see mistakes that are made in the blue prints.

Even good carpenters use Algebra. Mechanics even can apply Algebra in their trade. I can't think of too many trades where a good qualified person doesn't need to have fairly decent math skills which include at least the basics of Algebra.

 

[OnePercenter]

Drop algebra requirement for non-STEM majors, California community colleges chief says

There are a growing number of educational psychologists who are advocating that non-STEM students not be forced to take Algebra to get a college degree.

“College-level algebra is probably the greatest barrier for students — particularly first-generation students, students of color — obtaining a credential,” he said. “If we know we’re disadvantaging large swaths of students who we need in the workforce, we have to question why. And is algebra really the only means we have to determine whether a student is going to be successful in their life?

“I think there’s a growing body of evidence and advocates that say ‘no’ — that there are more relevant, just as rigorous, math pathways that we feel students should have the ability to take,” he said."

One question I have is this. If the alternate pathway is "just as rigorous", won't it be "just as" great of a barrier? I believe a better solution is to do a better job preparing students for Algebra before they take it.

Even pipefitters use Algebra and simple Algebra isn't all to hard to learn if taught correctly.

Isn't it more experience and building codes that determine the size, length, and slope of pipe?

Pipefitters do all that fancy piping you see in anything from factories to nuclear plants. Plumbers do pipes in residential and commercial settings. Both require pretty good math skills and the ability to read specs and blue prints if one is good at their trade. If they don't have the math skills they are very likely to read blue prints off or backwards. We had a three million dollar facility where the prime did the backwards grades. Talk about a mess everything ran into the vents instead of the floor drains. Also if a contractor has the skills they be more likely to see mistakes that are made in the blue prints.

Even good carpenters use Algebra. Mechanics even can apply Algebra in their trade. I can't think of too many trades where a good qualified person doesn't need to have fairly decent math skills which include at least the basics of Algebra.

Give an example of how carpenters and mechanics use algebra.

 

[RodISHI]

Drop algebra requirement for non-STEM majors, California community colleges chief says

There are a growing number of educational psychologists who are advocating that non-STEM students not be forced to take Algebra to get a college degree.

“College-level algebra is probably the greatest barrier for students — particularly first-generation students, students of color — obtaining a credential,” he said. “If we know we’re disadvantaging large swaths of students who we need in the workforce, we have to question why. And is algebra really the only means we have to determine whether a student is going to be successful in their life?

“I think there’s a growing body of evidence and advocates that say ‘no’ — that there are more relevant, just as rigorous, math pathways that we feel students should have the ability to take,” he said."

One question I have is this. If the alternate pathway is "just as rigorous", won't it be "just as" great of a barrier? I believe a better solution is to do a better job preparing students for Algebra before they take it.

Even pipefitters use Algebra and simple Algebra isn't all to hard to learn if taught correctly.

Isn't it more experience and building codes that determine the size, length, and slope of pipe?

Pipefitters do all that fancy piping you see in anything from factories to nuclear plants. Plumbers do pipes in residential and commercial settings. Both require pretty good math skills and the ability to read specs and blue prints if one is good at their trade. If they don't have the math skills they are very likely to read blue prints off or backwards. We had a three million dollar facility where the prime did the backwards grades. Talk about a mess everything ran into the vents instead of the floor drains. Also if a contractor has the skills they be more likely to see mistakes that are made in the blue prints.

Even good carpenters use Algebra. Mechanics even can apply Algebra in their trade. I can't think of too many trades where a good qualified person doesn't need to have fairly decent math skills which include at least the basics of Algebra.

Give an example of how carpenters and mechanics use algebra.

Offset times the width divided by the length will get you from point a to point b. It is called the owl formula and is also used extensively in the heating and air conditioning (HVAC) industry as well as pipefitting and plumbing. Carpentry you use geometry to figure roof trusses, curves and staircases, etc...

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Drop algebra requirement for non-STEM majors, California community colleges chief says

There are a growing number of educational psychologists who are advocating that non-STEM students not be forced to take Algebra to get a college degree.

“College-level algebra is probably the greatest barrier for students — particularly first-generation students, students of color — obtaining a credential,” he said. “If we know we’re disadvantaging large swaths of students who we need in the workforce, we have to question why. And is algebra really the only means we have to determine whether a student is going to be successful in their life?

“I think there’s a growing body of evidence and advocates that say ‘no’ — that there are more relevant, just as rigorous, math pathways that we feel students should have the ability to take,” he said."

One question I have is this. If the alternate pathway is "just as rigorous", won't it be "just as" great of a barrier? I believe a better solution is to do a better job preparing students for Algebra before they take it.

Even pipefitters use Algebra and simple Algebra isn't all to hard to learn if taught correctly.

Isn't it more experience and building codes that determine the size, length, and slope of pipe?

Pipefitters do all that fancy piping you see in anything from factories to nuclear plants. Plumbers do pipes in residential and commercial settings. Both require pretty good math skills and the ability to read specs and blue prints if one is good at their trade. If they don't have the math skills they are very likely to read blue prints off or backwards. We had a three million dollar facility where the prime did the backwards grades. Talk about a mess everything ran into the vents instead of the floor drains. Also if a contractor has the skills they be more likely to see mistakes that are made in the blue prints.

Even good carpenters use Algebra. Mechanics even can apply Algebra in their trade. I can't think of too many trades where a good qualified person doesn't need to have fairly decent math skills which include at least the basics of Algebra.

Give an example of how carpenters and mechanics use algebra.

There are about 2.54 cm in an inch. You have a half inch bolt. Which metric wrench should you try first? That's algebra.

You are framing a house. You need to by boards for the studs for a wall. The wall is 16 feet long, and the studs are at every 16inches. How many boards do you need? That's algebra.

 

[OnePercenter]

Drop algebra requirement for non-STEM majors, California community colleges chief says

There are a growing number of educational psychologists who are advocating that non-STEM students not be forced to take Algebra to get a college degree.

“College-level algebra is probably the greatest barrier for students — particularly first-generation students, students of color — obtaining a credential,” he said. “If we know we’re disadvantaging large swaths of students who we need in the workforce, we have to question why. And is algebra really the only means we have to determine whether a student is going to be successful in their life?

“I think there’s a growing body of evidence and advocates that say ‘no’ — that there are more relevant, just as rigorous, math pathways that we feel students should have the ability to take,” he said."

One question I have is this. If the alternate pathway is "just as rigorous", won't it be "just as" great of a barrier? I believe a better solution is to do a better job preparing students for Algebra before they take it.

Even pipefitters use Algebra and simple Algebra isn't all to hard to learn if taught correctly.

Isn't it more experience and building codes that determine the size, length, and slope of pipe?

Pipefitters do all that fancy piping you see in anything from factories to nuclear plants. Plumbers do pipes in residential and commercial settings. Both require pretty good math skills and the ability to read specs and blue prints if one is good at their trade. If they don't have the math skills they are very likely to read blue prints off or backwards. We had a three million dollar facility where the prime did the backwards grades. Talk about a mess everything ran into the vents instead of the floor drains. Also if a contractor has the skills they be more likely to see mistakes that are made in the blue prints.

Even good carpenters use Algebra. Mechanics even can apply Algebra in their trade. I can't think of too many trades where a good qualified person doesn't need to have fairly decent math skills which include at least the basics of Algebra.

Give an example of how carpenters and mechanics use algebra.

Offset times the width divided by the length will get you from point a to point b. It is called the owl formula and is also used extensively in the heating and air conditioning (HVAC) industry as well as pipefitting and plumbing. Carpentry you use geometry to figure roof trusses, curves and staircases, etc...

Those with advanced degrees such as architect's and engineers.

 

[OnePercenter]

Drop algebra requirement for non-STEM majors, California community colleges chief says

There are a growing number of educational psychologists who are advocating that non-STEM students not be forced to take Algebra to get a college degree.

“College-level algebra is probably the greatest barrier for students — particularly first-generation students, students of color — obtaining a credential,” he said. “If we know we’re disadvantaging large swaths of students who we need in the workforce, we have to question why. And is algebra really the only means we have to determine whether a student is going to be successful in their life?

“I think there’s a growing body of evidence and advocates that say ‘no’ — that there are more relevant, just as rigorous, math pathways that we feel students should have the ability to take,” he said."

One question I have is this. If the alternate pathway is "just as rigorous", won't it be "just as" great of a barrier? I believe a better solution is to do a better job preparing students for Algebra before they take it.

Even pipefitters use Algebra and simple Algebra isn't all to hard to learn if taught correctly.

Isn't it more experience and building codes that determine the size, length, and slope of pipe?

Pipefitters do all that fancy piping you see in anything from factories to nuclear plants. Plumbers do pipes in residential and commercial settings. Both require pretty good math skills and the ability to read specs and blue prints if one is good at their trade. If they don't have the math skills they are very likely to read blue prints off or backwards. We had a three million dollar facility where the prime did the backwards grades. Talk about a mess everything ran into the vents instead of the floor drains. Also if a contractor has the skills they be more likely to see mistakes that are made in the blue prints.

Even good carpenters use Algebra. Mechanics even can apply Algebra in their trade. I can't think of too many trades where a good qualified person doesn't need to have fairly decent math skills which include at least the basics of Algebra.

Give an example of how carpenters and mechanics use algebra.

There are about 2.54 cm in an inch. You have a half inch bolt. Which metric wrench should you try first? That's algebra.

You are framing a house. You need to by boards for the studs for a wall. The wall is 16 feet long, and the studs are at every 16inches. How many boards do you need? That's algebra.

There are about 2.54 cm in an inch. You have a half inch bolt. Which metric wrench should you try first? That's algebra.

The one on top? Seriously? The 1/2 inch wrench.

You are framing a house. You need to by boards for the studs for a wall. The wall is 16 feet long, and the studs are at every 16inches. How many boards do you need? That's algebra.

For a 2400 sq/ft single story you need five pallets.

 

[RodISHI]

Even pipefitters use Algebra and simple Algebra isn't all to hard to learn if taught correctly.

Isn't it more experience and building codes that determine the size, length, and slope of pipe?

Pipefitters do all that fancy piping you see in anything from factories to nuclear plants. Plumbers do pipes in residential and commercial settings. Both require pretty good math skills and the ability to read specs and blue prints if one is good at their trade. If they don't have the math skills they are very likely to read blue prints off or backwards. We had a three million dollar facility where the prime did the backwards grades. Talk about a mess everything ran into the vents instead of the floor drains. Also if a contractor has the skills they be more likely to see mistakes that are made in the blue prints.

Even good carpenters use Algebra. Mechanics even can apply Algebra in their trade. I can't think of too many trades where a good qualified person doesn't need to have fairly decent math skills which include at least the basics of Algebra.

Give an example of how carpenters and mechanics use algebra.

Offset times the width divided by the length will get you from point a to point b. It is called the owl formula and is also used extensively in the heating and air conditioning (HVAC) industry as well as pipefitting and plumbing. Carpentry you use geometry to figure roof trusses, curves and staircases, etc...

Those with advanced degrees such as architect's and engineers.

Think as you wish for you will regardless of what I tell you about the actual working class people who actually do the daily work out there.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The one on top? Seriously? The 1/2 inch wrench.

Don't try to be cute. Who metric wrench? That's algebra.

You dodged both questions. Just here to troll. Good for you. You're welcome for the attention.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

For a 2400 sq/ft single story you need five pallets.

So, how many for 2 such houses? That's algebra.

 

[ReinyDays]

Algebra teaches logical thinking ... we start with very simple facts, combine them in logical ways and derive higher facts ... math is strictly dependent on this manner of thought pattern ... not that we should always be logical, but it's a tool in the toolbox as it were, logic solves enough of our day-to-day problems that some course work in high school is needed ... and algebra fits the need perfectly ... and can be easily taught to 14-year-old children ... what good is a college degree if you're not smarter than a 14-year-old? ...

I struggle with written English, as I'm sure all of you have noticed ... I certainly don't deserve a college degree ... even in mathematics ... an English major who can't balance their checkbook doesn't deserve a degree either ...

Can algebra be presented to the non-STEM student better? ... probably so ... but starting high school is a bad time for the student to make that forever decision ... we do teach algebra for the STEM students and in a very specific way ... these students must go on a take college math classes ... and the student needs to understand algebra in the way we are teaching it now ... sometimes compared to learning a foreign language, the symbols and techniques we learn in algebra extend well into higher math ...

I was quite surprised when my first upper division math class, LinAlgebra, started with material I learned in 2nd grade ... like the communicative property of addition, a+b=b+a ... simply shocking to me how critically important that law is to all of advanced mathematics, just shocking ...

Bottom line ... if algebra isn't easy for you ... you don't belong in college ...